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JesusMySavior
Dec 20th 2008, 03:20 AM
The answer is












YES!!!!!!!!


:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp


John 14:6
Acts 4:12
Romans 3:23-24
Romans 6:23



Was just watching a show that said when recent american Christians were polled, an amazing 1/3 of them only believed in this Truth. 29% of those polled believed their "good works" would get them into heaven, and 30 some % believed that having faith in a "higher power" or just "God" would get a person in. Man, what are our churches teaching?

OldChurchGuy
Dec 20th 2008, 03:28 AM
The answer is












YES!!!!!!!!


:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp


John 14:6
Acts 4:12
Romans 3:23-24
Romans 6:23



Was just watching a show that said when recent american Christians were polled, an amazing 1/3 of them only believed in this Truth. 29% of those polled believed their "good works" would get them into heaven, and 30 some % believed that having faith in a "higher power" or just "God" would get a person in. Man, what are our churches teaching?

You may be right. But would it be correct to conclude that the final decision about who is allowed in heaven and who is not is up to God?

Ever curious I remain,

OldChurchGuy

JesusMySavior
Dec 20th 2008, 03:38 AM
You may be right. But would it be correct to conclude that the final decision about who is allowed in heaven and who is not is up to God?

Ever curious I remain,

OldChurchGuy


OCG,

God has given us His Word and He will never judge contrary to that Word.


We're not the judge but I know God's Word and it says that "the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life IN Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:23). It also says in 1 John 2:23 "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

Without the blood of Jesus no man can get into heaven. Even the Israelites who drank from the Rock were quenched by Christ.

Christ has been from everlasting, and those who followed the righteousness of God also believed in the manifestation of Christ even before He took human form. Why? Because they trusted God.


Christ is the answer, end of story. :)

Kahtar
Dec 20th 2008, 04:00 AM
Man, what are our churches teaching?They aren't....................:cool:

thepenitent
Dec 20th 2008, 04:55 AM
I've seen Christians on television mention offhandedly, in conversation, the exclusivity of Christ and get barks and growls in response. The others are shocked to hear this has always been standard Christian doma. They think it's some bit of modern day hatemongering being snuck in there by some hyper-fundamentalist sect who wants to enslave them in a Pat Boone universe. The World is doing it's job and in many quarters winning.

crossnote
Dec 20th 2008, 06:25 AM
I've seen Christians on television mention offhandedly, in conversation, the exclusivity of Christ and get barks and growls in response. The others are shocked to hear this has always been standard Christian doma. They think it's some bit of modern day hatemongering being snuck in there by some hyper-fundamentalist sect who wants to enslave them in a Pat Boone universe. The World is doing it's job and in many quarters winning.

Yep, this will be the persecuting pivotal point in a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religion, multi-story, multi-ego, multi-pathed universe.
ONE WAY! EEEKS, quick, someone remind the ACLU and the Freedom from Religion groups to campaign and file suit against all those
'one-way' --> signs on our highways...they just might offend someone looking for diirection(s).

OldChurchGuy
Dec 20th 2008, 02:03 PM
OCG,

God has given us His Word and He will never judge contrary to that Word.


We're not the judge but I know God's Word and it says that "the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life IN Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:23). It also says in 1 John 2:23 "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

Without the blood of Jesus no man can get into heaven. Even the Israelites who drank from the Rock were quenched by Christ.

Christ has been from everlasting, and those who followed the righteousness of God also believed in the manifestation of Christ even before He took human form. Why? Because they trusted God.


Christ is the answer, end of story. :)

If we had the original manuscripts to examine and if they matched the translations we use, then I would have to agree with you. But, we have a gap of multiple centuries between the time of Jesus and the oldest complete manuscripts. Granted there are fragments some of which are thought to be within a generation or two of the time of Jesus but it is my understanding the fragments are, at best, a few words.

One can have FAITH that Christianity is the only way to God but it is another thing to treat that faith as irrefutable fact since we do not have the original manuscripts.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

Kahtar
Dec 20th 2008, 02:35 PM
If we had the original manuscripts to examine and if they matched the translations we use, then I would have to agree with you. But, we have a gap of multiple centuries between the time of Jesus and the oldest complete manuscripts. Granted there are fragments some of which are thought to be within a generation or two of the time of Jesus but it is my understanding the fragments are, at best, a few words.

One can have FAITH that Christianity is the only way to God but it is another thing to treat that faith as irrefutable fact since we do not have the original manuscripts.

As always,

OldChurchGuyAnd therefore we cannot be absolutely certain that we have the truth, and that casts doubt on the entire Word of God, thus we really have no hope at all. We could all be wrong.................:rolleyes:
Sorry, can't agree.

Ekeak
Dec 20th 2008, 02:47 PM
For any who still don't understand how, read the last supper. I think it will help you understand God's plan to love you for eternity.

Gregg
Dec 20th 2008, 03:20 PM
If we had the original manuscripts to examine and if they matched the translations we use, then I would have to agree with you. But, we have a gap of multiple centuries between the time of Jesus and the oldest complete manuscripts. Granted there are fragments some of which are thought to be within a generation or two of the time of Jesus but it is my understanding the fragments are, at best, a few words.

One can have FAITH that Christianity is the only way to God but it is another thing to treat that faith as irrefutable fact since we do not have the original manuscripts.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

If it was up to me, I might have many ways to the Father. I do not like the prospect of meeting people that I like, but who are not Christians, of going to hell. I also am not comfortable bring up the subject of Jesus to them. Then again it is not up to me, and I am a sinner who needs a Savior. I also do not truly see what spiritual warfare looks like. There is a lot more "reality" that we cannot see.

I also think you have it wrong on the manuscripts. 30-50 years not centuries.

May God forgive us and bless us all. In Jesus name I pray Amen.

theBelovedDisciple
Dec 20th 2008, 04:49 PM
The answer is












YES!!!!!!!!


:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp


John 14:6
Acts 4:12
Romans 3:23-24
Romans 6:23



Was just watching a show that said when recent american Christians were polled, an amazing 1/3 of them only believed in this Truth. 29% of those polled believed their "good works" would get them into heaven, and 30 some % believed that having faith in a "higher power" or just "God" would get a person in. Man, what are our churches teaching?
---------------------------------------------------------------

From His Own words and Mouth..

He is the WAY TRUTH and the LIFE... No man comes to the Father but thru HIM>> He is the Only Way....

and He also taught that..

Except a Man/Woman be Born Again.. they cannot 'see' or 'enter' the Kingdom of Heaven...

and these born again not out of the 'will of man'.. but of the 'will of God Himself'...

When you start telling people that Jesus is the Only Way.. and without Him there is Eternal Damnation..people will most likely disagree and try to convince you there are other ways...... it should be of no suprise.. and yes many of those who confess that Jesus is God .. believe that there are 'other pathways' to Heaven .. the Buddahists.. they have Buddha.. the Moslems.. they have Allah... I have these people in my own family.. belive in Jesus but believe 'other ways' to Heaven.. Buddha, Allah, Mohammad.. all those are still in their graves if they even exist.. but the True Living God came out of His tomb... proving He has conquered Death.. and that He is Truly the Living God...

even the 'devils' believe and tremble at His Name....

Jesus the Christ.. God manifest in the flesh.. is the ONLY way to Heaven.. and He Truly is the Living God.. and has proved that by coming out of His grave 3 days later..

Joe King
Dec 20th 2008, 05:47 PM
If it was up to me, I might have many ways to the Father. I do not like the prospect of meeting people that I like, but who are not Christians, of going to hell. I also am not comfortable bring up the subject of Jesus to them. Then again it is not up to me, and I am a sinner who needs a Savior. I also do not truly see what spiritual warfare looks like. There is a lot more "reality" that we cannot see.

I also think you have it wrong on the manuscripts. 30-50 years not centuries.

May God forgive us and bless us all. In Jesus name I pray Amen.


It isn't up to you. We all deserve hell. That's why it's our responsibility as Christians to spread the message of Jesus.

John27
Dec 21st 2008, 03:21 AM
I find one small item for discussion with this. In Revelation I recall Jesus saying that "there will be many and of many religions" when talking about judgement nad what I believe heaven.

If Jesus is the only way could it be that non-Jesus believers who are good citizens and follow God's laws, and repent their sins, but just don't know Jesus, could it be possible that when they die Jesus will give them the chance to accept him at their judgement?

thepenitent
Dec 21st 2008, 04:54 AM
I find one small item for discussion with this. In Revelation I recall Jesus saying that "there will be many and of many religions" when talking about judgement nad what I believe heaven.

If Jesus is the only way could it be that non-Jesus believers who are good citizens and follow God's laws, and repent their sins, but just don't know Jesus, could it be possible that when they die Jesus will give them the chance to accept him at their judgement?

Which verse in Revelation are you referring to?

threebigrocks
Dec 21st 2008, 05:10 AM
I find one small item for discussion with this. In Revelation I recall Jesus saying that "there will be many and of many religions" when talking about judgement nad what I believe heaven.

If Jesus is the only way could it be that non-Jesus believers who are good citizens and follow God's laws, and repent their sins, but just don't know Jesus, could it be possible that when they die Jesus will give them the chance to accept him at their judgement?

There are many paths, but only 1 leads to salvation. That narrow path is through Jesus Christ.

Matthew 7
13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

snowflake
Dec 21st 2008, 05:16 AM
John14:6 Jesus saith unto I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me.

If a person wants to know the Truth in this uncertain world of today. And if they want to know eternal life. And if they want to know The Way. It is Jesus. One Way and only One.

crossnote
Dec 21st 2008, 06:25 AM
If we had the original manuscripts to examine and if they matched the translations we use, then I would have to agree with you. But, we have a gap of multiple centuries between the time of Jesus and the oldest complete manuscripts. Granted there are fragments some of which are thought to be within a generation or two of the time of Jesus but it is my understanding the fragments are, at best, a few words.

One can have FAITH that Christianity is the only way to God but it is another thing to treat that faith as irrefutable fact since we do not have the original manuscripts.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

Actually the fact that there is not only a gap of centuries but also a gap of locations where the early manuscripts have been found AND that of the existing manuscripts, there is only about 1/2 of 1% variance among them, gives even GREATER credence to their accuracy. This is evidence that meticulous care was taken in copying from the original(s) (even though they are no longer extant) and have been preserved nearly 100% so much so that one could safely count the material today as good as the original.

crossnote
Dec 21st 2008, 06:35 AM
I find one small item for discussion with this..snip..
If Jesus is the only way could it be that non-Jesus believers who are good citizens and follow God's laws, and repent their sins, but just don't know Jesus, could it be possible that when they die Jesus will give them the chance to accept him at their judgement?

One problem here. None have followed God's laws. But you have a good question if you ask it this way...

"If Jesus is the only way could it be that non-Jesus believers who are bad citizens and break God's laws, and then repent their sins, but just don't know Jesus, could it be possible that when they die Jesus will give them the chance to accept him at their judgement?"

Then I would say they come close to the old testament saints. But I would think in their case God would send them a messenger to proclaim to them the Gospel. In any case it does not nullify Jesus as being the only way, for if there were another way then Jesus died in vain.

Joe King
Dec 21st 2008, 06:36 AM
The bottom line is that it is up to God to decide. We need to worry about our own salvation first,especially because we have heard the truth.

Gregg
Dec 21st 2008, 03:01 PM
It isn't up to you. We all deserve hell. That's why it's our responsibility as Christians to spread the message of Jesus.

I know that. I was explaining my fleshy sinful feelings. God knows best, and I ain't God!

David Taylor
Dec 21st 2008, 04:17 PM
If Jesus is the only way could it be that non-Jesus believers who are good citizens and follow God's laws, and repent their sins, but just don't know Jesus, could it be possible that when they die Jesus will give them the chance to accept him at their judgement?


There is no such thing as "nonJesus-believers who are good and follow Gods laws"
Jesus gave them there chance for salvation is during this life--not after death.

theBelovedDisciple
Dec 22nd 2008, 03:15 AM
:oHow can one be a 'non' Jesus 'believer"??????:o:o I'm alittle confused on this.. I don't think there is such a thing..

Man-ofGod
Dec 22nd 2008, 04:06 AM
OCG,

God has given us His Word and He will never judge contrary to that Word.


We're not the judge but I know God's Word and it says that "the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life IN Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:23). It also says in 1 John 2:23 "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also."



But have you denied the son if you never had a chance to accept him?

crossnote
Dec 22nd 2008, 06:38 AM
But have you denied the son if you never had a chance to accept him?

Probably not~
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
(Act 17:30)

David Taylor
Dec 22nd 2008, 02:59 PM
But have you denied the son if you never had a chance to accept him?

Everyone has had the chance....according to the scriptures.
God isn't hiding from any of His creations.

Read these verses.

Titus 2:11
"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men"

Romans 10:18
"Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."

Acts 17:26
God "hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us"

Romans 1:19
"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

Matthew 7:7
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

Revelation 3:20
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

Revelation 22:17
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

yaza
Dec 22nd 2008, 03:37 PM
The answer is












YES!!!!!!!!


:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp


John 14:6
Acts 4:12
Romans 3:23-24
Romans 6:23



Was just watching a show that said when recent american Christians were polled, an amazing 1/3 of them only believed in this Truth. 29% of those polled believed their "good works" would get them into heaven, and 30 some % believed that having faith in a "higher power" or just "God" would get a person in. Man, what are our churches teaching?
amen to that! jesus is the rock cut out of the mountian in daniel he is the stone of stumbling his name is the only name in heaven and earth he is the mountian that grew to fill the whole earth he reigns and rules until the end when he hands the kingdom back to his father. god bless

OldChurchGuy
Dec 22nd 2008, 04:23 PM
If it was up to me, I might have many ways to the Father. I do not like the prospect of meeting people that I like, but who are not Christians, of going to hell. I also am not comfortable bring up the subject of Jesus to them. Then again it is not up to me, and I am a sinner who needs a Savior. I also do not truly see what spiritual warfare looks like. There is a lot more "reality" that we cannot see.

I also think you have it wrong on the manuscripts. 30-50 years not centuries.

May God forgive us and bless us all. In Jesus name I pray Amen.

If you have read other posts of mine you know this isn't the first time I may be wrong. :) Would you please refer me to a link or a book showing a complete NT manuscript that is dated to within 30 to 50 years of the time of Jesus the Christ?

Always learning,

OldChurchGuy

OldChurchGuy
Dec 22nd 2008, 04:28 PM
And therefore we cannot be absolutely certain that we have the truth, and that casts doubt on the entire Word of God, thus we really have no hope at all. We could all be wrong.................:rolleyes:
Sorry, can't agree.

No offense taken.

OldChurchGuy

OldChurchGuy
Dec 22nd 2008, 05:32 PM
Actually the fact that there is not only a gap of centuries but also a gap of locations where the early manuscripts have been found AND that of the existing manuscripts, there is only about 1/2 of 1% variance among them, gives even GREATER credence to their accuracy. This is evidence that meticulous care was taken in copying from the original(s) (even though they are no longer extant) and have been preserved nearly 100% so much so that one could safely count the material today as good as the original.

Have you read "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman? Very thought provoking book.

OldChurchGuy

keck553
Dec 22nd 2008, 05:37 PM
Well, Seeing He's GOD, I can't imagine He would lie. More reason to pray for others, especially those who love Elohim and don't know their Messiah.

JesusMySavior
Dec 23rd 2008, 07:46 AM
I seriously thought this would be a "glory to God" thread but I'm still absolutely stammered that it has become a debate thread.



Romans 3:10-12

As it is written:


“ There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”


In fact, instead of quoting scriptures end upon end...


let's determine what the whole purpose of the New Testament was for if Jesus was NOT the only way to God?

And what was the purpose in Christ if even ONE soul could enter aside from Him?



I'm still absolutely flabbergasted...

Christ Himself preached the narrow way and the more I read the Bible, the narrower it seems.

It's not even enough to BELIEVE (acknowledge) that Jesus is Christ.

Check this :

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matt 7:21-23)

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. (2 Jn. 15-17)


oh and everybody loves 1 John 1:9 but let's read the verses before it!


If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:6-8)



So not only is Jesus the ONLY way, but ONLY those who consciously do the will of God through the Spirit of Christ will even be counted worthy to enter the Kingdom. That is pretty heavy! But let's trust God to help us do it through Him! :pp

barnettj
Jan 5th 2009, 09:00 PM
This may not be a very popular post, but.....I believe Heaven is wherever God is and I believe hell is a separation from God. To me, it's like asking if God is the only way to get to God. I know it's popular to ask people where they are going to spend eternity: "heaven or hell?". But I think if that is all that's on our mind, we miss the real treasure: a relationship with God now.

tt1106
Jan 5th 2009, 09:17 PM
Live your best life now. :)

threebigrocks
Jan 5th 2009, 09:28 PM
Live your best life now. :)

How, scripturally, is that possible?

Emanate
Jan 5th 2009, 10:16 PM
How, scripturally, is that possible?


I suppose it would depend on the definition of 'good' being considered

tt1106
Jan 5th 2009, 10:31 PM
How, scripturally, is that possible?

I was being tongue in Cheek. Mine and Joels are very different, but then, I believe Jesus is the only way to eternal life.