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Prophet Daniel
Dec 24th 2008, 10:02 AM
Exo 13:6 You shall eat unleavened bread seven days, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to Jehovah.
Exo 13:7 Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days. And there shall be no leavened bread seen with you, nor shall there be leaven seen with you in all your borders.
Exo 13:8 And you shall tell your son in that day, saying, This is because of what Jehovah did for me when I came out from Egypt.
Exo 13:9 And it shall be a sign to you upon your hand, and for a memorial between your eyes, that Jehovah's Law may be in your mouth. For the Lord has brought you out of Egypt with a strong hand.
Exo 13:10 You shall therefore keep this law in its season from year to year.

Anyone meditated on this scripture?

MacGyver
Dec 24th 2008, 07:57 PM
Here is part of an article that I wrote on this...




What does it mean by, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead?

It is highly unlikely that it will be a literal mark on their forehead and right hand. I follow the idea of Primasius, he said,

"He here distinguishes the individual members, although more often he includes them as a whole in the body, or the person of the beast. The 'hand' indicates works, and it is the right hand to simulate truth. The 'forehead' symbolizes the confession of faith. Since they are defrauded in regard to both of these good things, they are said to be marked on both."

Partaker of Christ
Dec 24th 2008, 09:03 PM
Here is part of an article that I wrote on this...




What does it mean by, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead?

It is highly unlikely that it will be a literal mark on their forehead and right hand. I follow the idea of Primasius, he said,

"He here distinguishes the individual members, although more often he includes them as a whole in the body, or the person of the beast. The 'hand' indicates works, and it is the right hand to simulate truth. The 'forehead' symbolizes the confession of faith. Since they are defrauded in regard to both of these good things, they are said to be marked on both."

The mark of the beast is in the hand 'OR' the forehead.
It is a mark to be received, and I don't see how the beast has the power to make a 'spiritual' mark.

quiet dove
Dec 24th 2008, 09:09 PM
The mark of the beast is in the hand 'OR' the forehead.
It is a mark to be received, and I don't see how the beast has the power to make a 'spiritual' mark.

I agree with you about the 'spiritual' mark, not that there won't be one, I just don't know how.

When I read the passage though I think this is what popped out

Exo 13:9 And it shall be a sign to you upon your hand, and for a memorial between your eyes, that Jehovah's Law may be in your mouth. For the Lord has brought you out of Egypt with a strong hand.

We are told that the mouth speaks from the heart. We are told to confess Christ with our mouth, thus confessing what/Who, is in our heart. And we are also told that the beast will speak great lies.

I don't have any great revelation here, that is just what was food for thought. That we are told of some type mark, on the hand or head, and then "that is what may be in the mouth".?

? so, still thinking on it - :)

Psalms Fan
Dec 24th 2008, 09:40 PM
Exo 13:6 You shall eat unleavened bread seven days, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to Jehovah.
Exo 13:7 Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days. And there shall be no leavened bread seen with you, nor shall there be leaven seen with you in all your borders.
Exo 13:8 And you shall tell your son in that day, saying, This is because of what Jehovah did for me when I came out from Egypt.
Exo 13:9 And it shall be a sign to you upon your hand, and for a memorial between your eyes, that Jehovah's Law may be in your mouth. For the Lord has brought you out of Egypt with a strong hand.
Exo 13:10 You shall therefore keep this law in its season from year to year.

Anyone meditated on this scripture?


Yes, and others like it. It is for that reason that I don't believe that anyone will have a "thing" put on their body to serve as the "mark of the beast". Satan does not need to have "the power to give a spiritual mark". He just needs people to be obedient to him.

Partaker of Christ
Dec 25th 2008, 01:29 AM
Yes, and others like it. It is for that reason that I don't believe that anyone will have a "thing" put on their body to serve as the "mark of the beast". Satan does not need to have "the power to give a spiritual mark". He just needs people to be obedient to him.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

He causeth all to recieve a mark

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

How do we get victory over his mark, and over the number of his name?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

They did not 'worship' the beast, they did not 'worship' his image, they neither had 'receive' his mark

This would show (or infer) that receiving the mark, was not automatically received via worship or obedience, but a separate action required.

Mark F
Dec 25th 2008, 02:39 AM
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

He causeth all to recieve a mark

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

How do we get victory over his mark, and over the number of his name?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

They did not 'worship' the beast, they did not 'worship' his image, they neither had 'receive' his mark

This would show (or infer) that receiving the mark, was not automatically received via worship or obedience, but a separate action required.



Partaker,
I agree with your last statement. I'm not inclined to believe that it will be forced upon anyone.

The Scripture states that those who take his mark, or his name, or the number of his name are condemned.

Our salvation is based upon what we believe, right? If a guy with and evil tatoo becomes a believer is that past sin forgiven? Without getting into a pile of rabbit trails, I would think if his faith is true he will be saved.

The word for mark can also mean badge, the phrase right hand comes from the greek word dexios, which could be right arm as well.

Remember seeing pictures of the Nazi's with a red band and swastica on thier arm? In realistic terms that seems to be a very real description of what it could be.

The phrase number of his name, the word for number is arithmos. This could also say the multitude called by his name. Or the multitude of his name.

I am not a greek scholar so I come to this by reading others and looking at the greek definitions and using what they say. I think we tend to think everything but, and get carried away with speculations instead of keeping it simple and like things we observe around us now.


This idea is not all that unfamiliar to us, people wear hats with thier favorite "logo" on them, and if you think about it other cultures do this as well.

How about a headband with something like "in the name of allah" or something?

Walid Shoebat tells in a video that when he saw the original scripts in greek, the word that is translated "666" was an arabic arrangment of letters, that look similar to greek letters.

Below is a video with Walid explaining it.


http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b111/beelbill/?action=view&current=666.flv

voicenthewildernes
Dec 25th 2008, 03:34 AM
Partaker,
I agree with your last statement. I'm not inclined to believe that it will be forced upon anyone.

The Scripture states that those who take his mark, or his name, or the number of his name are condemned.

Our salvation is based upon what we believe, right? If a guy with and evil tatoo becomes a believer is that past sin forgiven? Without getting into a pile of rabbit trails, I would think if his faith is true he will be saved.

The word for mark can also mean badge, the phrase right hand comes from the greek word dexios, which could be right arm as well.

Remember seeing pictures of the Nazi's with a red band and swastica on thier arm? In realistic terms that seems to be a very real description of what it could be.

The phrase number of his name, the word for number is arithmos. This could also say the multitude called by his name. Or the multitude of his name.

I am not a greek scholar so I come to this by reading others and looking at the greek definitions and using what they say. I think we tend to think everything but, and get carried away with speculations instead of keeping it simple and like things we observe around us now.


This idea is not all that unfamiliar to us, people wear hats with thier favorite "logo" on them, and if you think about it other cultures do this as well.

How about a headband with something like "in the name of allah" or something?

Walid Shoebat tells in a video that when he saw the original scripts in greek, the word that is translated "666" was an arabic arrangment of letters, that look similar to greek letters.

Below is a video with Walid explaining it.


http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b111/beelbill/?action=view&current=666.flv
The most unthought about is a singular world wide religious system of mankind not of God. The 3 variables fit in the hypothesis. In fact the command from above is to come out of the harlot and not of anyother thing. Read it all in context. If one comes out then they achieved the victory over the beast. If there is but one false religion in this world today how many more than can there actually be? Over 1/2 the planet is religious could it be some man's idea to unite under one banner in order to bring peace and stability to this world? To me the mark references a worldwide religious belief system, the home of the anti-Christ. This system isn't a singular church but an amalgumation of all the world's churches into one system of religion. Scripture tells us even the elect will be decieved. This is why everyone should study not show yourself worthy but in order to not be deceived by the anti-Christ. This is why I also say that our relationship with God is an individual one and not a communal type. We can only save ourselves that is very explicit but all togehter as one we can be lost if we serve the wrong master. Jesus didn't follow tradition or doctrine of religion in His time. Christ be our example! Jesus seeks us so that we may seek Him individually always keep that in mind.


Voice

Gods Child
Dec 26th 2008, 04:12 AM
Exo 13:6 You shall eat unleavened bread seven days, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to Jehovah.
Exo 13:7 Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days. And there shall be no leavened bread seen with you, nor shall there be leaven seen with you in all your borders.
Exo 13:8 And you shall tell your son in that day, saying, This is because of what Jehovah did for me when I came out from Egypt.
Exo 13:9 And it shall be a sign to you upon your hand, and for a memorial between your eyes, that Jehovah's Law may be in your mouth. For the Lord has brought you out of Egypt with a strong hand.
Exo 13:10 You shall therefore keep this law in its season from year to year.

Anyone meditated on this scripture?


It is evident that God has the power to place a spiritual mark or seal

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Although, it is not evident that Satan or the antichrist has any power to put any spiritual mark or seal on anyone.

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The mark; by Rev 13:17 will allow people to buy or sell who receive the mark. People who do not receive the mark can not buy or sell.
To buy or sell is something literal not spiritual, thus the mark is something literal that will allow a person to buy or sell.
We can not “Buy or Sell” something spiritual.

Psalms Fan
Dec 26th 2008, 03:01 PM
and I don't see how the beast has the power to make a 'spiritual' mark.

Ezekiel 9:2-6, 11
"And I saw six men coming from the direction of the Upper Gate, which faces north, each with a war club in his hand. There was another man among them, clothed in linen, with writing equipment at his side. They came and stood beside the bronze alter...He called to the man clothed in linen with the writing equipment at his side. 'Pass throughout the city of Jerusalem,' the LORD said to him, 'and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations committed in it.' To the others He said in my hearing, 'Pass through the city after him and start killing...but do not come near anyone who has the mark. Now begin at my sanctuary.' ... Then the man clothed in linen with the writing equipment at his side reported back, 'I have done as you commanded me.'" (HCSB, with a few chunks omitted for the sake of brevity. Feel free to read the whole passage.)

In this particular passage, God's people are marked by an angel, not by God Himself. What would prevent Satan from being able to do the same thing with his own people?

quiet dove
Dec 26th 2008, 05:12 PM
Ezekiel 9:2-6, 11
"And I saw six men coming from the direction of the Upper Gate, which faces north, each with a war club in his hand. There was another man among them, clothed in linen, with writing equipment at his side. They came and stood beside the bronze alter...He called to the man clothed in linen with the writing equipment at his side. 'Pass throughout the city of Jerusalem,' the LORD said to him, 'and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations committed in it.' To the others He said in my hearing, 'Pass through the city after him and start killing...but do not come near anyone who has the mark. Now begin at my sanctuary.' ... Then the man clothed in linen with the writing equipment at his side reported back, 'I have done as you commanded me.'" (HCSB, with a few chunks omitted for the sake of brevity. Feel free to read the whole passage.)

In this particular passage, God's people are marked by an angel, not by God Himself. What would prevent Satan from being able to do the same thing with his own people?

Interesting point, and also in Revelation we are told:

Rev 7:2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."

Partaker of Christ
Dec 26th 2008, 11:17 PM
Ezekiel 9:2-6, 11
"And I saw six men coming from the direction of the Upper Gate, which faces north, each with a war club in his hand. There was another man among them, clothed in linen, with writing equipment at his side. They came and stood beside the bronze alter...He called to the man clothed in linen with the writing equipment at his side. 'Pass throughout the city of Jerusalem,' the LORD said to him, 'and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations committed in it.' To the others He said in my hearing, 'Pass through the city after him and start killing...but do not come near anyone who has the mark. Now begin at my sanctuary.' ... Then the man clothed in linen with the writing equipment at his side reported back, 'I have done as you commanded me.'" (HCSB, with a few chunks omitted for the sake of brevity. Feel free to read the whole passage.)

In this particular passage, God's people are marked by an angel, not by God Himself. What would prevent Satan from being able to do the same thing with his own people?

The man in white linen, and the others are given this authority by God, to perform the giving of a mark.
I find nowhere in scripture, were Satan has this same authority.

iWrecknSow
Dec 26th 2008, 11:38 PM
I dont believe it will be a mark that is seeable either.

REV.14 [9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, IF ANY MAN WORSHIP THE BEAST and his image, and receive his MARK IN HIS FOREHEAD, OR IN HIS HAND,[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

above scripture sign – hand - forehead (between the eyes) - cup of indignation – the bad guys
below scriptures sign – hand - between thine eyes (forehead) - the LORDS LAW – the good guys

EXOD.13 [9] And it shall be for a SIGN unto thee UPON THINE HAND, and for A MEMORIAL BETWEEN THINE EYES, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

DEUT.6 [2] That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and HIS COMMANDMENTS, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.[8] And thou shalt bind them for A SIGN UPON THINE HAND, and they shall be AS FRONTLETS BETWEEN THINE EYES.[9] And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates

JAMES 5 [7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, UNTIL HE RECEIVE THE EARLY AND LATTER RAIN.[8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.


Until you receive the early and latter rain? Whats that mean and what must you do to receive these rains? Anything to do with which “mark” you accept?

DEUT.11 [13] And it shall come to pass, IF YE SHALL HEARKEN DILIGENTLY UNTO MY COMMANDMENTS which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,[14] That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, THE FIRST RAIN AND THE LATTER RAIN, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil. [18] Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for A SIGN UPON YOUR HAND, THAT THEY MAY BE AS FRONTLETS BETWEEN YOUR EYES.[19] And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.[20] And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:[21] That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.[22] For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

Above scripture says in order to receive the early and latter rain, you must diligently keep the 10 commandments (the 4th?). Deut.11 goes on to say they will be for a sign on your hand and forehead (frontlets between your eyes). Verse 21 is speaking of the 1000 yr period of rest (the Kingdom of God) which the Lord sware to the fathers to give them. Hmmm…Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever.

REV.22 [4] And they shall see his face; and HIS NAME SHALL BE IN THEIR FOREHEADS.[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[14] BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through gates of the city.

Yup. Says the same thing in last chapter of Revelations. HIS name in their foreheads. They who keep the ten commandments of God will enter the gates of the land promised to the fathers for the 1000 yr period of rest. Well Jesus said he came to proclaim the gospel (good news) of the kingdom. That is good news if your trying to keep all 10 of His commandments. Those who are trying will fall short but thats where the grace of God comes in. We could never be saved by our works as we all are but filthy rags.

BibleGirl02
Dec 27th 2008, 03:05 AM
I believe that the mark will be a literal and physical mark. Perhaps it will be a bar code or perhaps a microchip implanted in the hand or forehead that also shows a mark on the skin. Or perhaps it will just be three sixes. You never know for sure what it will be until it happens.

angel_fire
Dec 27th 2008, 04:07 AM
The most unthought about is a singular world wide religious system of mankind not of God. The 3 variables fit in the hypothesis. In fact the command from above is to come out of the harlot and not of anyother thing. Read it all in context. If one comes out then they achieved the victory over the beast. If there is but one false religion in this world today how many more than can there actually be? Over 1/2 the planet is religious could it be some man's idea to unite under one banner in order to bring peace and stability to this world? To me the mark references a worldwide religious belief system, the home of the anti-Christ. This system isn't a singular church but an amalgumation of all the world's churches into one system of religion. Scripture tells us even the elect will be decieved. This is why everyone should study not show yourself worthy but in order to not be deceived by the anti-Christ. This is why I also say that our relationship with God is an individual one and not a communal type. We can only save ourselves that is very explicit but all togehter as one we can be lost if we serve the wrong master. Jesus didn't follow tradition or doctrine of religion in His time. Christ be our example! Jesus seeks us so that we may seek Him individually always keep that in mind.


Voice
Couldnt agree more!! Study, Study, Study!!!!! Treasure when found is quickly hidden. To find the Treasure, one must search, when one finds it, he quickly buries it, deep in the ground.
Matthew 13:44
“The Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure that a man discovered hidden in a field. In his excitement, he hid it again and sold everything he owned to get enough money to buy the field.”


In order to find a treasure, one must really search for it.

Prophet Daniel
Dec 29th 2008, 02:13 PM
Could it be that over the centuries God has shown man that no-one is justified by deeds of the law. That when the dispensation of the law was there that it was a means of being temporary justified year by year. But since the fullfulment of the ceremonial laws in Christ it is not of grace to continue with them. They would be instead of Christ. They are the accuser John5:45.

No one observing the ceremonial laws that would be justified by these works would be able to stand justified in front of God.

Does the word 'anti" in Roman languages not mean "instead" and if so is the law not instead of Christ? This could mean that anyone who attempts to be justified by observing the law themselves are in temple (their bodies) sitting on the throne instead of Christ.

The context here is the ceremonial law. It was a shadow of good things to come. We should not try to be justified by the shadow.

John146
Dec 29th 2008, 09:41 PM
It is evident that God has the power to place a spiritual mark or seal

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Although, it is not evident that Satan or the antichrist has any power to put any spiritual mark or seal on anyone.

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The mark; by Rev 13:17 will allow people to buy or sell who receive the mark. People who do not receive the mark can not buy or sell.
To buy or sell is something literal not spiritual, thus the mark is something literal that will allow a person to buy or sell.
We can not “Buy or Sell” something spiritual.I disagree. Here are a few examples of buying or selling in a spiritual sense rather than physical.

Prov 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Matt 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Jude
Dec 31st 2008, 05:45 PM
I believe that the mark will be a literal and physical mark. Perhaps it will be a bar code or perhaps a microchip implanted in the hand or forehead that also shows a mark on the skin. Or perhaps it will just be three sixes. You never know for sure what it will be until it happens.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/pray_persecuted_church.jpg

I'm not Catholic but on this topic I agree with you totally, I believe it won't show; man is much to vain to have marks on that beautiful kisser. As a mark its already being introduced by Veterinarians, even Andy Rooney was pushing in favor of a mark. Look at it this way, you walk into a grocery story what do they do at check out? "They Scan" your Brussels Sprouts, now comes time to pay, what are you going to do? shake the grocers hand? butt heads with him? Anyway go figure, Oh! Arnold Murray from the Shepherds Chapel says it will be in your mind, Ya right, whats he going to do meditate over his sprouts? :giveup:

He may even do this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf2Xa3H0eQI&feature=related

Jude

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif

Psalms Fan
Dec 31st 2008, 10:52 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/pray_persecuted_church.jpg

I'm not Catholic but on this topic I agree with you totally, I believe it won't show; man is much to vain to have marks on that beautiful kisser. As a mark its already being introduced by Veterinarians, even Andy Rooney was pushing in favor of a mark. Look at it this way, you walk into a grocery story what do they do at check out? "They Scan" your Brussels Sprouts, now comes time to pay, what are you going to do? shake the grocers hand? butt heads with him? Anyway go figure, Oh! Arnold Murray from the Shepherds Chapel says it will be in your mind, Ya right, whats he going to do meditate over his sprouts? :giveup:

He may even do this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf2Xa3H0eQI&feature=related

Jude

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif


Maybe he'll say "So and so is our God and Savior", and then proceed with his transaction. :hmm: