PDA

View Full Version : A question for old earth creationists



Studyin'2Show
Dec 24th 2008, 12:31 PM
This question is for all those who consider themselves old earth creationists. Do you believe your ancestors where created as humans or do you believe they were once closer to ape-like creatures and Adam is just the first one to have a consciousness of God? I ask because I'm not sure what you believe and am just curious. :hmm:

God Bless!

fishbowlsoul
Dec 24th 2008, 04:34 PM
After talking with my Uncle Bubbles after we rescued him from Neverland Ranch . . .:o

I believe that humans are specially created/evolved and that we are genetically related closely to modern apes and other primates both existing and extinct.

God bless

dworthington
Dec 24th 2008, 04:49 PM
After talking with my Uncle Bubbles after we rescued him from Neverland Ranch . . .:o

I believe that humans are specially created/evolved and that we are genetically related closely to modern apes and other primates both existing and extinct.

God bless

Doesn't that show a common Creator rather then ancestery?

Studyin'2Show
Dec 24th 2008, 06:00 PM
After talking with my Uncle Bubbles after we rescued him from Neverland Ranch . . .:o

I believe that humans are specially created/evolved and that we are genetically related closely to modern apes and other primates both existing and extinct.

God blessSo wouldn't that make you a theistic evolutionist rather than an old earth creationist? :confused This is where I'm a bit confused.

GitRDunn
Dec 24th 2008, 06:30 PM
So wouldn't that make you a theistic evolutionist rather than an old earth creationist? :confused This is where I'm a bit confused.
Could you clarify for me what the difference (as you see it) is between a theistic evolutionist and an old earth creationist?

Studyin'2Show
Dec 24th 2008, 06:43 PM
Could you clarify for me what the difference (as you see it) is between a theistic evolutionist and an old earth creationist?That's just the thing I'm confused about. :confused I'd always assumed that OECs did not believe that God used evolution to create man. Otherwise, isn't it pretty much the same as being a TE who believes that God used evolution to create man? :hmm:

Jeffinator
Dec 24th 2008, 08:00 PM
After talking with my Uncle Bubbles after we rescued him from Neverland Ranch . . .:o

I believe that humans are specially created/evolved and that we are genetically related closely to modern apes and other primates both existing and extinct.

God bless

Actually most TE scientists and my professors are now saying we are not related to apes but rather some other unknown primate. Personally i dont believe this bs we keep getting shoveled by TE but just thought id tell you OEC's what i had heard. Guess TE cant make up their mind:confused

BrckBrln
Dec 24th 2008, 08:48 PM
I'm an OEC but not a TE.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 24th 2008, 11:31 PM
I'm an OEC but not a TE.So, you do not believe God used evolution to create man as fishbowlsoul does? :hmm: I'm really trying to figure this position out but it seems that there is a LOT of variation.

Yukerboy
Dec 25th 2008, 01:13 AM
I believe in an old earth creation, however, I believe that Adam was created long after the creation of the earth (appx. 6,000 years ago).

However, in testifying, I believe in knowing all sides so as to show all sides to those who wish to be presented one side.

Say an atheist states "I will not come to God because I believe in evolution", then, though I do not believe in evolution, my job is to show that evolution can be read into the Scriptures.

Psalms Fan
Dec 25th 2008, 01:32 AM
Hi there. I'm Joel and just started on this message board today. I hope to have some fun here and learn.

To clarify a few terms:

Typically, the view points with the word "creation" in them believe that life forms were specially created as they are today. So whether it be a young earth creation (where cosmological and geological forms and functions were specially created as we know them today) or old earth creation (where the cosmological and geological forms and functions slowly came to be as they are today due to millions of years of natural processes under the sovereign hand of God) they all believe that life as we have it today was specially created and did not evolve (with some exceptions for slight modification within species).

Contrasted with a TE who will hold both to the old universe and common descent of life.

Note that TE's don't believe that life occurred by chance. Rather the origin of life as well as its evolution through the ages was sovereignly guided by God.

So by definition an OEC would not believe in evolution, or else he or she would be a TE.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 25th 2008, 02:32 AM
Hi there. I'm Joel and just started on this message board today. I hope to have some fun here and learn.

To clarify a few terms:

Typically, the view points with the word "creation" in them believe that life forms were specially created as they are today. So whether it be a young earth creation (where cosmological and geological forms and functions were specially created as we know them today) or old earth creation (where the cosmological and geological forms and functions slowly came to be as they are today due to millions of years of natural processes under the sovereign hand of God) they all believe that life as we have it today was specially created and did not evolve (with some exceptions for slight modification within species).

Contrasted with a TE who will hold both to the old universe and common descent of life.

Note that TE's don't believe that life occurred by chance. Rather the origin of life as well as its evolution through the ages was sovereignly guided by God.

So by definition an OEC would not believe in evolution, or else he or she would be a TE.See, that's what I thought. However, if you look back through the thread you'll see that the first responder said he is an OEC yet seems to believe in evolution. Hence my confusion. :hmm: I've been discussing this topic online for years and I think the OEC position is the most unclear. The TE position I understand, the YEC position I understand but the OEC position seems to change depending on who you ask. And btw, welcome to the boards! :)

God Bless!

BrckBrln
Dec 25th 2008, 02:59 AM
See, that's what I thought. However, if you look back through the thread you'll see that the first responder said he is an OEC yet seems to believe in evolution. Hence my confusion. :hmm: I've been discussing this topic online for years and I think the OEC position is the most unclear. The TE position I understand, the YEC position I understand but the OEC position seems to change depending on who you ask. And btw, welcome to the boards! :)

God Bless!

I always thought the OEC thought has under it TE and non TE, while YEC is only non TE. In other words, all TE's are OEC's but not all OEC's are TE's. :)

Biastai
Dec 25th 2008, 04:47 AM
This question is for all those who consider themselves old earth creationists. Do you believe your ancestors where created as humans or do you believe they were once closer to ape-like creatures and Adam is just the first one to have a consciousness of God? I ask because I'm not sure what you believe and am just curious. :hmm:

God Bless!

Though this part of my belief is still very fluid and being worked out, I'm not opposed to the idea of man evolving from primates. I don't accept it as absolute rock-solid truth, but its definitely a valid explanation to me. Particularly offending about this idea is that it appears to make man and primate one or of the same "class." The "threshold" that was crossed by man made him a very distinct being, however. He is thus worthy of being called a separate creation "a little under the angels." This threshold crossing included acquiring a knowledge of good and evil (hence eating of the fruit) and shame of nakedness (the upright stature of man as opposed to primates' hunched posture would compel him to conceal his genitals with clothing).

These are the two highlighted acquisitions (I'm open to more suggestions if others can think of more) associated with the banishing of man from paradise. From here, cultural life of man and the ills that come with it began. Beasts may appear self-seeking and almost "evil," but a closer look will tell us they only do these things for survival or to abolish a gnawing internal stimulus. Man is distinct here. He can be intentionally flat-out evil. It may be broken down to man trying to usurp the creator's position by for example, enslaving his fellow man. Taking the place of God is the key point of tempting man in that first sin.

I don't think I need to elaborate on our unique use of clothing that originated then. Even a housepet wearing a simple sweater reeks of absurdity in our eyes.

Thank you for the stimulating question! I'm looking forward to reading others' views on this topic.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 25th 2008, 02:22 PM
I always thought the OEC thought has under it TE and non TE, while YEC is only non TE. In other words, all TE's are OEC's but not all OEC's are TE's. :)Thank you for clarifying. :D

Brother Mark
Dec 25th 2008, 02:39 PM
I don't have real strong opinions on the age of the earth. I am a staunch creationist though. I believe God created Adam and Eve fully human and bodily mature.

There are several reasons I lean towards and older earth view though. 1. Everything God created, he created it mature. For instance, Adam and Eve saw stars the moment they were created. That meant that light had to be created between the stars and the earth. God didn't just create the stars then let the light travel to the earth, as there wouldn't be enough time, based on the creation account. So the earth, will appear older than it is. I know it sounds like I am saying young earth, but I am saying the earth should appear old to those looking at it just as Adam would not look like he was 1 day old for people that looked at him.

2. I don't see the days of creation actually starting until God starts speaking of light. So who knows how long the earth was around before the Lord started dressing her up.

fishbowlsoul
Dec 25th 2008, 05:05 PM
So wouldn't that make you a theistic evolutionist rather than an old earth creationist? :confused This is where I'm a bit confused.


Hope everyone is having a very excellent Christmas.

Yeah I am a theistic evolutionist who believes God created through evolution which requires a belief in an old earth.


by dworthington
Doesn't that show a common Creator rather then ancestery?


Or it can show a common Creator using descent through evolution.

fishbowlsoul
Dec 25th 2008, 05:10 PM
Actually most TE scientists and my professors are now saying we are not related to apes but rather some other unknown primate. Personally i dont believe this bs we keep getting shoveled by TE but just thought id tell you OEC's what i had heard. Guess TE cant make up their mind:confused

Can you elaborate or give a reference to what these TE scientists said to you? I like to read it. Thanks.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 25th 2008, 05:41 PM
Yeah I am a theistic evolutionist who believes God created through evolution which requires a belief in an old earth.Okay. So do you consider yourself an OEC? (emphasis on the C) ;)

fishbowlsoul
Dec 26th 2008, 04:08 AM
Okay. So do you consider yourself an OEC? (emphasis on the C) ;)

Yes I do consider myself to be a old earth creationist and I guess a creationist too. I believe God created all life through evolutionary processes. I don't see it as a either/or question.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 26th 2008, 04:09 PM
Yes I do consider myself to be a old earth creationist and I guess a creationist too. I believe God created all life through evolutionary processes. I don't see it as a either/or question.Well, I've definitely learned something new. ;) Thanks for all who responded!

God Bless!