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Rullion Green
Dec 24th 2008, 09:00 PM
I just watched a program on the Star of Bethlehem in wich the Magi were described as men who studied the stars (astronomy) from another religon.

from a little research on my part this seems to be true.

This was a surprise to me because those sort of people are an abomanation as seen in Deuteronomy. So what is the significance of them in the birth of Christ and why mention them ?



Any thoughts ?

Psalms Fan
Dec 24th 2008, 09:25 PM
"The heavens declare the glory of God and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech and night to night reveals knowledge."

Even if they were pagans, God will reveal Himself in any way that He sees fit. He spoke through Balaam's donkey. Why not through the stars to a group of astrologers?

But looking at the stars doesn't necessarily mean that they were astrologers in the way that we think of astrology. God Himself made the sun, moon and stars both to mark seasons and to serve as signs.

A point of significance might be that the very ones to whom God revealed Himself through the prophets should have been the very ones who knew that the Messiah was coming on the scene very soon. But they, by and large, weren't the ones looking for him. Pagan gentiles knew the times better than the Jews did (remember Jesus' words in Matt 16 about the pharisees being able to interpret the sings of the weather, but not the signs of the times?).

Elouise
Dec 24th 2008, 09:31 PM
...think you will find they were as astronomy and astrology were one and the same back then heck occultists still choose Christ even today ;) ; Christ came for ALL so why not have gentiles come looking for the new King even when they did not know who it was they sought?

bbutler
Dec 24th 2008, 09:52 PM
No where in the bible can we more easily see Godís hand manipulating circumstance to reveal truth than in the story of the wise men.

They came seeking Jesus and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.

Gold represents the glory of God. In the Old Testament God commanded that the tabernacle be filled with gold as a picture of his glory.The ark was gold inlay inside and out.Heavens streets are paved with gold that reflect
his glory.

How do we give God the glory? In the same way in which the wise men gave God the glory, by acknowledging Jesus as the son of God.

Frankincense represents prayer. In the tabernacle was an alter of incense which burned day and night. The bible says that our prayers are as a sweet aroma to God. What is the sweetest prayer that came be offered to God? Prayers of repentance acknowledging our sin and receiving the gift of his son as savior of the world.

Myrrh is an oily perfume that represents fellowship and preservation. It was not only used by women as a perfume but it was also used to embalm the dead. Therefore it represents a fellowship that brings about preservation; it is a picture of salvation.

When we give God the glory by acknowledging his son, seek his forgiveness in prayer and receive his son as lord and savior, he will enter into a fellowship with us that will lead to our eternal preservation on the day of judgment.

mizzdy
Dec 24th 2008, 10:02 PM
I just watched a program on the Star of Bethlehem in wich the Magi were described as men who studied the stars (astronomy) from another religon.

from a little research on my part this seems to be true.

This was a surprise to me because those sort of people are an abomanation as seen in Deuteronomy. So what is the significance of them in the birth of Christ and why mention them ?



Any thoughts ?

I have always read most scholars put the magi in Babylon. Daniel mentions the magi in the court of babylon. (Dan. 1:29, 2:2, 4:1, 4:9, 5:1) Many have wondered if Daniel may have been part of them therefore leaving the knowledge of the coming Messiah and the signs to look for behind. I am not sure if its all true but I would think Daniel had a lot of influence and may have had some converts himself that may have continued with his teachings.

ServantofTruth
Dec 24th 2008, 10:07 PM
At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow. SofTy.

SIG
Dec 24th 2008, 11:30 PM
On gold, frankincense, and myrrh:

Gold=Kingship
Frankincense=Priesthood
Myrrh=Prophet

I prefer to think of the Magi as believers, privy to a Godly mystery and called out of a Gentile nation. But God knows...

Chimon
Dec 24th 2008, 11:37 PM
IMO, God revealed the truth to these Gentiles through their pagan arts as a sign that the Sacrifice of Christ would be for the salvation of the whole world, not only Israel.

Look in Numbers, when God uses a pagan magician to pronounce a blessing on Israel.

Sirus
Dec 25th 2008, 01:32 AM
I have always read most scholars put the magi in Babylon. Daniel mentions the magi in the court of babylon. (Dan. 1:29, 2:2, 4:1, 4:9, 5:1) Many have wondered if Daniel may have been part of them therefore leaving the knowledge of the coming Messiah and the signs to look for behind. I am not sure if its all true but I would think Daniel had a lot of influence and may have had some converts himself that may have continued with his teachings.Right. Josephus states that Abraham taught astronomy and mathematics to the Egyptians. I don't know how true. Astronomy and astrology are separate. I enjoy astronomy, have an 8" telescope, and freeze in the winter to look and wonder at God's wonderful creation but have no interest in a horrorscope. However, creation points to a creator, and there are times and seasons -cycles - signs.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Point is, astronomy can't be all that bad if it lead the wise men to the birth of the Savior!
Creation reveals God and His truth to man......

Toymom
Dec 25th 2008, 04:05 AM
That is a good question. The magi were like the babylonian wise men. Perhaps they showed that even those who seem farthest from the Lord can know Christ.
As for the gifts, I thought that gold signifies the divine nature; frankincense, the fragrance of resurrection; and myrrh, the fragrance of death, thus they show Christ's divinity, and that He would die and be resurrected.

kenrank
Dec 25th 2008, 12:23 PM
...think you will find they were as astronomy and astrology were one and the same back then heck occultists still choose Christ even today ;) ; Christ came for ALL so why not have gentiles come looking for the new King even when they did not know who it was they sought?

I have wondered that too. There is some history that says the constellations, said today to mean certain things, once told a different story. Scorpio, with it's long dragon like tail, said to represent satan. Sagitarius, a tea kettle shaped constellation pouring God's wrath on satan. (those the last two in the story)

There was probably a great deal of knowledge they understood that we do not.

Peace.
Ken

Rullion Green
Dec 25th 2008, 01:06 PM
I have no problem with the concept of Gentils being interested in the birth of the King.

The only thing that i dont understand is why use Magi (astronomers see below) wich are specifically condemed as an abomonation in the OT.

Ah while writing i've been reading, this has helped a lot

http://ldolphin.org/magi.html

Seems they were not followers of the pagan religon and astronomy till later !

thank you all :)

mizzdy
Dec 25th 2008, 04:20 PM
I have wondered that too. There is some history that says the constellations, said today to mean certain things, once told a different story. Scorpio, with it's long dragon like tail, said to represent satan. Sagitarius, a tea kettle shaped constellation pouring God's wrath on satan. (those the last two in the story)

There was probably a great deal of knowledge they understood that we do not.

Peace.
Ken

I believe what you are refering to what is called astrotheology. Supposedly the whole of the constellations tell the story of Christ and of history. I really wouldn't be surprised that this was taught to those early children of Adam and Eve before written language but I have no proof of that. I would have to agree the early civilizations had much more knowledge than we attribute to them.

mizzdy
Dec 25th 2008, 04:24 PM
Right. Josephus states that Abraham taught astronomy and mathematics to the Egyptians. I don't know how true. Astronomy and astrology are separate. I enjoy astronomy, have an 8" telescope, and freeze in the winter to look and wonder at God's wonderful creation but have no interest in a horrorscope. However, creation points to a creator, and there are times and seasons -cycles - signs.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Point is, astronomy can't be all that bad if it lead the wise men to the birth of the Savior!
Creation reveals God and His truth to man......

I have read the same things myself. My husband has a huge telelscope but I have no idea what size and all that but we can see some of the most marvelous sights through it! The bible is full of signs and wonders in the sky so I agree that can't be all bad either, its the ones who use it all to self gain such as the horrorscopes and for dark arts as well.

neverleaveunorfors
Dec 27th 2008, 07:50 AM
I have wondered that too. There is some history that says the constellations, said today to mean certain things, once told a different story. Scorpio, with it's long dragon like tail, said to represent satan. Sagitarius, a tea kettle shaped constellation pouring God's wrath on satan. (those the last two in the story)

There was probably a great deal of knowledge they understood that we do not.

Peace.
Ken
very very good I see that you see and you know u know but think of it that they were a device used by a greater power to lead King Herod to the Christ child Until they were spoke of in a dream and warned not to go back to him sooooooooooooooooooooo?