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reformedct
Dec 25th 2008, 05:03 PM
Matthew 7:22

"many will say to me on that day Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do mighty works in your name? 23 and i will declare to them, I NEVER KNEW YOU.


does this prove people can exercise the authority of Jesus and not be saved?

please do not start saying things like, well, if the Lord knows you and you turn away, he will treat you as if he never knew you

that would make Jesus a liar. He clearly says HE NEVER knew them. He didn't say, it is as if i never knew you. very simply, Never knew ya bro.

so it is even possible to cast out demons in the name of Jesus but not be saved (i say that because no one who is saved does not know Him)

Bethany67
Dec 25th 2008, 07:07 PM
Well there's another passage where some unbelievers tried it and got a thrashing:

Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." 14Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15(One day) the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" 16Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding. Acts 19:13-16

I think it's possible that demons would go along with someone's 'authority' if it meant that person persisted in an unsaved state (but thought they were saved and therefore didn't realise they were lost). Plus, in the Mt 7 passage we only have their word/claim that they cast out demons; it's possible they didn't and something else was happening rather than genuine deliverance.

Chimon
Dec 25th 2008, 11:04 PM
I think what is more likely is that they will be Satanically decieved into believing they are Christians and that they have spiritual gifts. So they will give prophecies that have the appearance of divine wisdom and demons will appear to leave at their command, but in reality, they are being manipulated by Satan, because they do not know the Lord.

divaD
Dec 25th 2008, 11:39 PM
I think what is more likely is that they will be Satanically decieved into believing they are Christians and that they have spiritual gifts. So they will give prophecies that have the appearance of divine wisdom and demons will appear to leave at their command, but in reality, they are being manipulated by Satan, because they do not know the Lord.




2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Even tho the above has not yet occured, this seems to go with what you are saying. In order for satan to pull this off, he would need to start off subtly by getting church members used to these kinds of things. Then when these signs and lying wonders happen on a grand scale, these clueless church members will just keep on thinking that this is the works of the Holy Spirit, just like they have been believing for years.
I know a lot of charismatic folk don't want to hear this, but let's be honest here...barking, uncontrollable laughter, slain in the spirit, assumed healings by Benny Hinn, etc...come on now..none of this is via the Holy Spirit. One of these days, folks who are fooled by these things, they'll wish that they had listened to reason, unfortunately it will be too late.

Thaddaeus
Dec 26th 2008, 02:43 AM
Well there's another passage where some unbelievers tried it and got a thrashing:

Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." 14Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15(One day) the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" 16Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding. Acts 19:13-16

I think it's possible that demons would go along with someone's 'authority' if it meant that person persisted in an unsaved state (but thought they were saved and therefore didn't realise they were lost). Plus, in the Mt 7 passage we only have their word/claim that they cast out demons; it's possible they didn't and something else was happening rather than genuine deliverance. this doesn't prove anything for we also read in scriptures

Mt 17:14And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,Mt 17:15Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is a lunatic, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.Mt 17:16And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.Mt 17:17Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.Mt 17:18And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.Mt 17:19Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?Mt 17:20And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.Mt 17:21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.Just because they couldn't cast a devil out don'yt mean they were not saved

Thaddaeus
Dec 26th 2008, 02:48 AM
Mt 24:24 (http://bibleforums.org/mt+24:24)For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great SIGNS AND WONDERS; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.Mr 13:22 (http://bibleforums.org/mr+13:22)For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show SIGNS AND WONDERS, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect



yea buddy lost people will do great signs and wonders

Joe King
Dec 26th 2008, 02:52 AM
Wouldn't this be considered blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

divaD
Dec 26th 2008, 03:19 AM
Mt 24:24 (http://bibleforums.org/mt+24:24)For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great SIGNS AND WONDERS; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.Mr 13:22 (http://bibleforums.org/mr+13:22)For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show SIGNS AND WONDERS, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect



yea buddy lost people will do great signs and wonders



Hi Pastor Keith. These last 2 posts of yours showed both sides of the coin. Very good. Definately the right passages in order to stress the points.

Thaddaeus
Dec 26th 2008, 05:18 AM
Wouldn't this be considered blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
what would be considered blasphemy to quote scriptures???

Bladers
Dec 26th 2008, 04:21 PM
Matthew 7:22

"many will say to me on that day Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do mighty works in your name? 23 and i will declare to them, I NEVER KNEW YOU.


does this prove people can exercise the authority of Jesus and not be saved?

please do not start saying things like, well, if the Lord knows you and you turn away, he will treat you as if he never knew you

that would make Jesus a liar. He clearly says HE NEVER knew them. He didn't say, it is as if i never knew you. very simply, Never knew ya bro.

so it is even possible to cast out demons in the name of Jesus but not be saved (i say that because no one who is saved does not know Him)


My brother we just covered this topic a few days AGO. Look and you will see it