PDA

View Full Version : Imputation of Righteousness



reformedct
Dec 28th 2008, 03:28 AM
Some guy i was chatting with just pulled some weird Greek translation, Jewish culture gymnastics on Romans 3 and he is telling me that in Romans Paul is not saying that God gives us his own righteousness but we are still in our own righteousness simply "vindicated"???? he was saying the righteousness of God that is revealed is the faithfulness of God to fulfill His promise of bringing the mEssiah, it does not mean God gives us His righteousness

i thought thats what it meant to be "in Christ?", that we benefit from His reighteousness, that His sinlessness is credited to us????

i asked him why did Paul say he did not want to be found in a righteousness of his own but he never got back to me:rolleyes:

what did it mean in the Bible when it says, He made Him who knew no sin to be sin so that in him we might become the righteousness of God???


so, dont we recieve Gods righteousness on our account thru aith in Christ??? what did the Scripture mean when it said he made Him who knew no sin to become sin for us

cross crusader
Dec 28th 2008, 04:24 AM
Some guy i was chatting with just pulled some weird Greek translation, Jewish culture gymnastics on Romans 3 and he is telling me that in Romans Paul is not saying that God gives us his own righteousness but we are still in our own righteousness simply "vindicated"???? he was saying the righteousness of God that is revealed is the faithfulness of God to fulfill His promise of bringing the mEssiah, it does not mean God gives us His righteousness

i thought thats what it meant to be "in Christ?", that we benefit from His reighteousness, that His sinlessness is credited to us????

i asked him why did Paul say he did not want to be found in a righteousness of his own but he never got back to me:rolleyes:

what did it mean in the Bible when it says, He made Him who knew no sin to be sin so that in him we might become the righteousness of God???


so, dont we recieve Gods righteousness on our account thru aith in Christ??? what did the Scripture mean when it said he made Him who knew no sin to become sin for us
the bible states that our righteousness is as filthy rags, or as it is originally in the ancient text a womans menstrual rag. when God sees us he sees the righteousness of Jesus... not ours.

Zack702
Dec 28th 2008, 04:24 AM
what did it mean in the Bible when it says, He made Him who knew no sin to be sin so that in him we might become the righteousness of God???


Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The passage is talking about ambassadors for Christ.
As though they were God's messangers.
That all should be harmonized with God after the manner of Jesus and not after the manner of former priests.

Have a gander at the following verse...

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Sinners to repentance, that is what a ambassador for Christ preaches is it not?

reformedct
Dec 28th 2008, 04:30 AM
i just found out the guy i was talking to is a fan of NT wright lol that explains everything. i was wondering why he was making justification so fuzzy

crossnote
Dec 28th 2008, 07:10 AM
Some guy i was chatting with just pulled some weird Greek translation, Jewish culture gymnastics on Romans 3 and he is telling me that in Romans Paul is not saying that God gives us his own righteousness but we are still in our own righteousness simply "vindicated"???? he was saying the righteousness of God that is revealed is the faithfulness of God to fulfill His promise of bringing the mEssiah, it does not mean God gives us His righteousness

i thought thats what it meant to be "in Christ?", that we benefit from His reighteousness, that His sinlessness is credited to us????

i asked him why did Paul say he did not want to be found in a righteousness of his own but he never got back to me:rolleyes:

what did it mean in the Bible when it says, He made Him who knew no sin to be sin so that in him we might become the righteousness of God???


so, dont we recieve Gods righteousness on our account thru aith in Christ??? what did the Scripture mean when it said he made Him who knew no sin to become sin for us

Pay very close attention to verse 5.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
(Rom 4:3-8)

Through faith in Christ God declares us righteous. NT has serious problems with the idea of us being justified (declared righteous)apart from works.

holyrokker
Dec 28th 2008, 10:49 PM
The Bible doesn't say that Christ's righteousness is credited (imputed) to us.
That's part of a doctrinal system that's attempting to interpret God's word.

holyrokker
Dec 28th 2008, 11:13 PM
what did the Scripture mean when it said he made Him who knew no sin to become sin for us





2 Corinthians 5:21 (New International Version)

God made him who had no sin to be sin[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%205:21;&version=31;#fen-NIV-28883a)] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.





Footnotes:
2 Corinthians 5:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%205:21;&version=31;#en-NIV-28883) Or be a sin offering
It's unlikely that this passage means that Jesus "became sin". It's more likely accurate for it to mean that He became a sin offering. This would be more in keeping with the theme of all of Scripture.

Hebrews tells us that Jesus was the fulfillment of the sacrificial system: a system where an offering was made as a means of atoning for sin. Christ is our atoning sacrifice.

He was without sin, so His sacrifice is an acceptable atonement on our behalf.

It is through faith in His atoning sacrifice that we are "counted" as righteous.

reformedct
Dec 28th 2008, 11:26 PM
It's unlikely that this passage means that Jesus "became sin". It's more likely accurate for it to mean that He became a sin offering. This would be more in keeping with the theme of all of Scripture.

Hebrews tells us that Jesus was the fulfillment of the sacrificial system: a system where an offering was made as a means of atoning for sin. Christ is our atoning sacrifice.

He was without sin, so His sacrifice is an acceptable atonement on our behalf.

It is through faith in His atoning sacrifice that we are "counted" as righteous.


but it says that we might become the righteousness of God. If God "counts" us as righteouss, what is that righteousness from? He just makes it up? Arent we "in Christ" so to speak? I think Romans calls it the righteousness of God apart from the law? i thought Jesus takes our sin and gives us His righteousness as a gift??? Not that we take His and then He doesnt have anymore but that we are "in Christ" and therefore recieve all the benefits of a son as we are in the SOn of God. it is my view that we are in Christ and therefore "shielded" by His righteousness and forgiven?
isnt that what Scripture teaches?

theBelovedDisciple
Dec 29th 2008, 03:26 AM
If we are trusting in our 'own' Righteousness.. and that we don't recieve God's Righteousness... then why does the Scripture declare it as the 'gift of Righteousness'... are we giving ourselves a 'gift'.. our own Righteousness? A gift is something that is given 'freely'.. its not worked for nor is bought.. it's a Gift

The Gift of Righteousness....

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

recieve what in this verse? the 'abundance' of grace and the 'gift of Righteousness'... does that sound like its 'our' righteousness... its a gift that is 'given'..

Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Are we made righteous by our own acts? or own works? the above verse states that it was Jesus's Obedience ..that will make many righteous. He was Obedient unto death.. When He said .. not My will be done but Thy Will.. in the Garden.. which meant He was going to that bloody Tree.. and this is the Righteousness of God.. Jesus Christ and His Complete Redemptive Work on that Tree.. belief on Him and 'that'.. His Righteousness.. His Sacraficial Sacrafice.. for the sprinkling of blood and the forgiveness of sins...

This is the Obedience of One Man.. God in the Flesh.. Jesus the Christ.. His Work on that Tree.. belief and faith in that... that's how many are made Righteous.... its not about us...

It's About Him and What He did.. for His Children.

crossnote
Dec 29th 2008, 07:12 AM
The Bible doesn't say that Christ's righteousness is credited (imputed) to us.
That's part of a doctrinal system that's attempting to interpret God's word.

Well then please explain this scripture passage without attempting to interpret God's Word.

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:4-5)