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JesusMySavior
Jan 1st 2009, 05:11 AM
...what do you think?


tribulation near?

vinsight4u8
Jan 1st 2009, 06:58 AM
I look at Daniel 11:14 and see it as the Palestinians are the robbers that will fall.

At v21 is when the man of sin shows up as the "vile person".

th1bill
Jan 1st 2009, 07:17 AM
... Thank you for beginning this string, I was just about to begin one on this topic. I run into folks constantly that inform me that they are a New Testament Christian and the idea just floors me. I have been saved for these past 19 years on this date Jan. 1 and for the past 18 years I have endeavored to study the Word of God and because of my seeking after Him the LORD has taught me many great and wonderful things. The short answer to your question is yes, the time of the Great Tribulation is just around the corner.
... We have been alerted in the scriptures to keep our eyes upon Israel for the sign of the time and I have become extremely interested in Ezekiel 37 through 39 in these last days. Of course we have seen the dead, dry bones come back to life when Israel was reborn in a single day in '48 and right this moment I do not know how anyone can restrain themselves from reading the Jerusalem Post on line today. We have Persia/Iran cursing Israel and swearing it's finale disposition and of course we witness the daily rocket barrages on, not IDF targets but on Israeli civilian homes and still people want to demand that Israel cease fire. The truth of the matter is that Israel has allowed many, many thousands of unanswered rockets to fall on their citizens without a single answering volley.
... If you need a crash course on this matter you might want to pick up a copy of The Ezekiel Option. I am normally a slow reader but I read through this 400 page novel based on current history and the Bible in just one week, it is a gripping, fictionalized account of what is about to occure.
... I hope that our Heavenly Father will bless this discussion and that many will ring in on this topic.

vinsight4u8
Jan 1st 2009, 08:20 AM
It is still too early for the man of sin. We haven't gone through the times of Danel 11:15-19 as to a great war period yet.

The man of sin will be a new ruler - that won't be over Iraq until first the ruler before him raises taxes.

kings of the north
a great war - against Israel and Egypt

then he is gone
can't be found
but was trying to get back to his own land

then a raiser of taxes stands up in that guy's estate

then a vile person becomes the ruler in v21
//here is the time of the man that will rule the world from Iraq and abominate the holy site

expect a dead king to be coming back to reign

John was shown a king that was -
a beast was
is not
shall ascend out of the bottomless pit

--------------------

Who?
Nebuchadnezzar

Veretax
Jan 3rd 2009, 02:12 PM
It is still too early for the man of sin. We haven't gone through the times of Danel 11:15-19 as to a great war period yet.

The man of sin will be a new ruler - that won't be over Iraq until first the ruler before him raises taxes.

kings of the north
a great war - against Israel and Egypt

then he is gone
can't be found
but was trying to get back to his own land

then a raiser of taxes stands up in that guy's estate

then a vile person becomes the ruler in v21
//here is the time of the man that will rule the world from Iraq and abominate the holy site

expect a dead king to be coming back to reign

John was shown a king that was -
a beast was
is not
shall ascend out of the bottomless pit

--------------------

Who?
Nebuchadnezzar

can you point us to the chapter and verse where you are finding this about a "tax raiser" I 'm not sure I've read this before.

BryanM
Jan 3rd 2009, 04:54 PM
What I think is that war is wrong and anyone provoaking it is wrong as well. If the Jews are God's chosen people then why don't they come out in the media and protest their govt. like children of the U.S. did during Vietnam. Why are they persistent in building the 3rd temple? If it's God's will then it will happen. I don't understand enough of Israel but all I can think about are the people and children who do not want this. How can they get a wink of sleep with bombs hitting nearby. I felt the same for the people in Iraq as well. All I can image from any war is innocent children of God crying their eyes out in fear. My heart goes out to them 100%. I myself can hardly wait untill our true King, Jesus Christ comes to reign on earth and show his people how a true leader leads a nation.

Veretax
Jan 4th 2009, 02:54 AM
What I think is that war is wrong and anyone provoaking it is wrong as well. If the Jews are God's chosen people then why don't they come out in the media and protest their govt. like children of the U.S. did during Vietnam. Why are they persistent in building the 3rd temple? If it's God's will then it will happen. I don't understand enough of Israel but all I can think about are the people and children who do not want this. How can they get a wink of sleep with bombs hitting nearby. I felt the same for the people in Iraq as well. All I can image from any war is innocent children of God crying their eyes out in fear. My heart goes out to them 100%. I myself can hardly wait untill our true King, Jesus Christ comes to reign on earth and show his people how a true leader leads a nation.


Hrms, War is wrong eh? So if war is wrong, then why did God tell Israel to drive out the inhabitants of the land? He told saul to literally kill the Amalekites and all they had. God even through his prophets said he'd bring judgement to iSrael through a foreign power (via war in effect). So why I agree blessed are the peacemakers according to Christ, I don't believe he was referring to War as we know it, and furthermore it is clear that God brings nation against nation to judge them for sin. The bible and history are littered with so many references I can't even begin to quote them. It is the auspice of government to protect their people and if necessary make war, it has always been that way and frankly, I find general pacifism to be ignoring the fact that God judges nations by other nations, often via war.

Would it be great if we could all live in peace? Sure it would, but as long as there is sin in this world, it won't happen. Not till Christ comes, and even then at the end of his Millenium reign in revelation again you see a final conflict. So, thus I will quote from ecclesiastes:


Ecclesiastes 3:1-10

1 To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven: 2 A time to be born, And a time to die; A time to plant, And a time to pluck what is planted; 3 A time to kill, And a time to heal; A time to break down, And a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, And a time to laugh; A time to mourn, And a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, And a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, And a time to refrain from embracing; 6 A time to gain, And a time to lose; A time to keep, And a time to throw away; 7 A time to tear, And a time to sew; A time to keep silence, And a time to speak; 8 A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace. 9 What profit has the worker from that in which he labors? 10 I have seen the God-given task with which the sons of men are to be occupied.

JesusMySavior
Jan 4th 2009, 03:12 AM
Well since I have heard a few of you ring in on this subject, I will throw in my 2 cents.

I first made a decision for Christ when I was 11 years of age but it never really sunk in too deep so my life didn't reflect Christ much at all. When I was 13 my dad checked out a book from the library about the end times (it was secular). He was talking all about it and I didn't understand but it got me thinking. I read a few articles online but I soon forgot about it. Fast forward a year or so later, and 9/11 hits...I was freaking out like man this is terrible, and I got my friends all scared because all of what I had read was coming out of me. I did some more research on the subject and I realized i needed to turn my life around, so I rededicated my life at 15 and have had my eye on the news and the end times prophecies ever since then.

Over the years, I have read the Bible and gained knowledge of end time prophecy...it was what woke me up so I studied and studied.

My findings are that over the years I have seen several pieces come together, just wonderfully floating into place. But now the signs which were once 6-8 months apart are now coming faster and faster, and with more intensity - a lot like birth pangs.

I foresaw a war with Israel coming on, but I never thought it would be this quick. My thoughts? If we are to be raptured before the tribulation, pack your bags because we are extremely near. If God's will is not to be raptured but rather to be counted worthy to suffer for His Name's sake, let us be ready and study our forefathers who died for Christ and spread the Gospel like never before!

The one thing I am expecting to see in the near future is the Russians, they will get involved and try to wipe Israel off the map, perhaps with China or some other nations.

Truly I believe we are here, brothers and sisters. Come Lord Jesus!

wombat
Jan 4th 2009, 03:24 AM
My findings are that over the years I have seen several pieces come together, just wonderfully floating into place. But now the signs which were once 6-8 months apart are now coming faster and faster, and with more intensity - a lot like birth pangs.

Hi, JesusMySavior! I have been studying Bible prophecy for many years, and I am seeing the same thing you are--that the signs are coming faster and faster and with more intensity. I wake up in the morning and I can hardly wait to see what the news around the world is that points us toward Christ's return. Things are happening fast!

th1bill
Jan 4th 2009, 03:31 AM
What I think is that war is wrong and anyone provoaking it is wrong as well. If the Jews are God's chosen people then why don't they come out in the media and protest their govt. like children of the U.S. did during Vietnam. Why are they persistent in building the 3rd temple? If it's God's will then it will happen. I don't understand enough of Israel but all I can think about are the people and children who do not want this. How can they get a wink of sleep with bombs hitting nearby. I felt the same for the people in Iraq as well. All I can image from any war is innocent children of God crying their eyes out in fear. My heart goes out to them 100%. I myself can hardly wait untill our true King, Jesus Christ comes to reign on earth and show his people how a true leader leads a nation.
... Brian, you might think I'm getting personal but in reality I am not. Having said that there are points that are best made from personal experience and I have that to fall back on. You must surely be the son or grandson of the rather foolish person that spit in my face as I exited the cab at the Frisco Airport. He was guilty of a very foolish act and you have not researched the subject of which you speak.
... There is one town, of several towns, in southern Israel that has been sleeping in bunkers since before Hamas won the election. In that one town alone there have been over eight thousand rockets fired at their homes, schools and hospital that went without a single answering bullet or round of any other kind for the Israeli Army.
... Now, suppose the American government were to give Houston to the Arabs there because they wanted a home to call their own. Two months later these same Arabs begin firing rocket at my home in Magnolia. Do you honestly expect me to be so in love with them that I will let them murder my wife, children and friends? That is exactly what the Israelis have been doing and I'll tell you honestly, I would have attack long ago. I have spent months sleeping in bunkers because the enemy could not be located quickly enough and I have found my best friend in the world scattered like hambuger meat because he took it in the chest.
... May God alwaays bless Israel, just as He has promised.

ph33r
Jan 4th 2009, 04:29 AM
What I think is that war is wrong and anyone provoaking it is wrong as well. If the Jews are God's chosen people then why don't they come out in the media and protest their govt. like children of the U.S. did during Vietnam. Why are they persistent in building the 3rd temple? If it's God's will then it will happen. I don't understand enough of Israel but all I can think about are the people and children who do not want this. How can they get a wink of sleep with bombs hitting nearby. I felt the same for the people in Iraq as well. All I can image from any war is innocent children of God crying their eyes out in fear. My heart goes out to them 100%. I myself can hardly wait untill our true King, Jesus Christ comes to reign on earth and show his people how a true leader leads a nation.

You do realize when Jesus comes he is going to kill a ton of people right?

ph33r
Jan 4th 2009, 04:35 AM
Hi, JesusMySavior! I have been studying Bible prophecy for many years, and I am seeing the same thing you are--that the signs are coming faster and faster and with more intensity. I wake up in the morning and I can hardly wait to see what the news around the world is that points us toward Christ's return. Things are happening fast!

It does seem that way but it could be that since the media and internet we get information much faster now. As much as this interests me and I see allot of parrallels with the economy, governments, and world situation. I'd hate to be like the many other generations that ran around going THE END IS NEAR!!!.

I have to admit, the news lately has a certian end times feel to it though.

Ashley274
Jan 4th 2009, 07:17 AM
JesusMySavior I am 100% with you on this I have been telling people to look for this for over a year....it is very near

vinsight4u8
Jan 4th 2009, 08:04 AM
can you point us to the chapter and verse where you are finding this about a "tax raiser" I 'm not sure I've read this before.

I'm looking at Daniel 11:20. Many think this whole section of prophecy is over- but I can't believe that.


I believe we are in Daniel 11:14 right now, so the robbers part is about to take its next step. This step is that they will fall.


Daniel 11:14
"And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south...."
<king of the south = Egypt

This one verse so many try to make out as a huge war with other nations or such and Egypt. But - I have problems with that interpretation as

the south - doesn't get any army size mentioned for it

This whole chapter has been about informing us what happens during one king and his multitude to the next one.

Yet - v14 - contains only the mention of a ruler.
So - what if this is about the assassination of Anwar Sadat - making it happened back in 1981?

So v14 is for our day.

It contains the prophecy about Anwar Sadat and then what is next as I see it?

(11:14)
"And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people..."

"those times"
"many stand up against the king of the south"

now we add this part "robbers of thy people"

robbers - means - violent -murderers
of Israel

What were they to do?

"shall exalt themselves"

This group of violent people would declare themselves a nation.

The world doesn't see it that way- they were to do this task independently.
a self - type of declaration

Thus - the robbers are the Palestinians.
declared independence - Nov. 15,1988

and now they must fall


v15 - requires a king - "the king of the north" to come to the land of Israel

He will come to the land where the robbers fell.
He will take the most fenced cities.
(Israel has been bulding fences in her land/ trying to shield herself from the mean actions of the Palestinians)

War begins big time! - But things begin to change later and in v 20 we move to a new king of the north.


"Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes..."


v21
"And in his estate shall stand up a vile person..."
(this one is the man of sin)



So I expect the Palestinians to fall soon (which will move us from v14 to v15 - and Iraq to come and take the land of Israel).
There will not be strength to withstand - for either Israel or Egypt.



This is the exact timing I believed it would happen - because we know that Jesus told us in Matthew 24:7-8 about the beginning of sorrows.

Okay, now here is what I think we are to do with that thought. Head back to Daniel chapter 10:14.

"Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days..."

Daniel 11:14 also has those as"thy people" being mentioned.

What if the being wanted Daniel to link these two parts together?

as in - thy people - latter days

Daniel 11:14
"...thy people..."

Begin the latter days - as starting right here.
Verse 14 begins the latter days story.

Watch for these things in the endtimes.

Verse 12 was not the endtimes - Verse 4 - but - begin it with v14. This verse is also linked to v13 -for it has "In those times"

v13
"....after certain years with a great army..."
I believe this is about Saddam Hussein.//1979

v14 = 1981
and Nov. 15, 1988 (beginning of sorrows)
and the other date yet to happen - the fall of the Palestinians

then we'll find out the date of the king of the north shall come

v16
"...shall do according to his own will...."



Okay, now let me add in one thought more to this time I believe that we are experiencing.
Daniel 10:14 - where the being comes to explain stuff to Daniel. Okay, back up to the start of that chapter. Daniel had been shown a vision and he mourned for three full weeks.

Is that time of mourning a clue for his readers?
Are we to know that he saw a vision - then mourned for the length of time the vision will take to unfold?

as in - the time of that vision on Israel = takes three full weeks - or 21 years

Daniel 10:1-2_____________Daniel 11:14
(the very same vision time)
We know the being told him it is in the latter days - We know that it is to befall "thy people". We also find the word "vision" in Daniel 11:14.

So let Daniel 11:14 begin the story of what Daniel saw that made him so sad at the start of chapter 10.

As in - from the time of the robbers - the Palestinans exalted themselves - to the time they fall is 21 years.

so - Nov. 15, 1988 - to 2009

This means the war with Iraq has to fit in here yet too.
So till about August of this year.


The Iraqi ruler will come and take Israel - but eventually we get to v18 and a prince turns on him - and then things turn against the king of the north (which I see as a ruler of Iraq).

markdrums
Jan 4th 2009, 09:44 AM
It is still too early for the man of sin. We haven't gone through the times of Danel 11:15-19 as to a great war period yet.

The man of sin will be a new ruler - that won't be over Iraq until first the ruler before him raises taxes.

kings of the north
a great war - against Israel and Egypt

then he is gone
can't be found
but was trying to get back to his own land

then a raiser of taxes stands up in that guy's estate

then a vile person becomes the ruler in v21
//here is the time of the man that will rule the world from Iraq and abominate the holy site

expect a dead king to be coming back to reign

John was shown a king that was -
a beast was
is not
shall ascend out of the bottomless pit

--------------------

Who?
Nebuchadnezzar


I have to pose a question here.
How is Nebuchadnezzar related in any way to Revelation?

In order for that to happen, he would have to be re-incarnated. Which isn't a viable option.

************************************************
And to comment on the original post/ question which was:

"...what do you think?
tribulation near? "

Take a look again at what John says in the very beginning of Revelation.
-Rev 1:1 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#comm/1)The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified by his angel unto his servant John:

So, these things were to be on the verge of happening very soon from the time John wrote this.
And continuing on a couple verses, pay attention to a key point:

Rev 1:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#comm/9)I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

John was writing TO the [I]seven churches in Asia, (Rev 1:4) - and was telling THEM that the time was near, and that He personally was a companion in tribulation.

So, taking the passages in context, I'd say the current situation with Israel has nothing to do with Revelation.

BryanM
Jan 4th 2009, 09:57 AM
...... Now, suppose the American government were to give Houston to the Arabs there because they wanted a home to call their own.

What happened to their original home? By the way, my grandfather served in WWII dropping food and supplies. He didn't spit in your face nor did I. I am sorry for your lost friend. That is a terrible way to die.

vinsight4u8
Jan 4th 2009, 07:02 PM
Hi markdrums


You asked as to neb being reincarned.

No, I agree that is not the way that God does things. I look at it as when neb comes back - he will be in his ready for the lake of fire body.



another question of yours

"How is Nebuchadnezzar related in any way to Revelation?"


I take us to the name of the seven heads of Rev. 13.
Why do you think it has them all called "blasphemy"?

13:1
"...a beast...with seven heads...upon his heads the name of blapshemy."


Okay, are these the same seven heads from Rev. 12?

12:3
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold, a great red dragon, having seven hads...and seven crowns upon his heads.'

I say - this difference in the description of the seven heads matters.

Rev. 12 - 7 heads - with 7 crowns on them
Rev. 13 - 7 heads - with their sin named on them
(blasphemy)

So Rev. 12 seems to occur and then time passes to where the 7 rulers are all dead - and they bear their sin name on their in the grave heads.

Now, this is our key to figure out just what seven rulers these are - were?

seven kings - named "blasphemy"

Why?
Well, Psalm 74 can help us out with this.

v10
"O God, how long the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?"

v7
"They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, they have defiled [by casting down] the dwelling place of thy name to the ground."


So - Wouldn't that mean Nebuchadnezzar is that first king of blasphemy?
destroyed the holy site temple
the place of the name of God

We have our first head for Rev. 13.

Antiochus of Epiphanes was the second
then his son - Antiochus Eupator

then Crassus
and Titus


Rev. 17 speaks as to five are fallen - and the beast is one of them - and he will be the 8th king.

seven kings
five are fallen - beast was

So the beast must be one of the five fallen kings of blasphemy.

In Rev. 13 - we find that one of the named heads- gets his deadly wound healed - and becomes a beast himself.
This beast has the number of his name (blasphemy) as = to 666.

This makes him the only king in all of history for this part of the future - as out to be Nebuchadnezzar.

Going back to Jeremiah 28:14 - we find that king referred to as "the yoke of iron".
Moving a bit further - shows in chapter 30 that in the endtimes a yoke will break.

Moses also prophesied of the yoke of iron in Deuteronomy 28:48.

Before the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar went on the nations to serve Nebuchadezzar - Jeremiah had told the people that all the previous yokes had been taken off of them.

2:20
"For of old time I have broken thy yoke...."

So no kings can come back from the grave any further back in time than Nebuchadnezzar.

ChristianKnight
Jan 4th 2009, 07:04 PM
No, I believe the tribulation will be near, when it is near, I live my life a quarter a mile at a time (lol, F&F)

vinsight4u8
Jan 4th 2009, 07:33 PM
Keep in mind that the vairious empires over Babylon had been shown to the king - Nebuchadnezzar.

The wicked prideful king wanted to know what was to become of his huge empire he had built - after he is gone.

"But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days..."

"secrets"
"maketh known" - to Nebuchadnezzar
"latter days"


Ezekiel 28:3
"Behold, thou [art] wiser than Daniel; there is no secret they they can hide from thee."
v2
"...I sit [in] the seat of God,..."



Daniel 7:8
"...a mouth speaking great things..."
v25
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High...until a time and times, and the dividing of time."


Rev. 12:14
"...for a time, times, and half a time..."

13:5 - parts
"given him a mouth speaking great things"
"...continue fourty [and] two months"

v6
"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:..."

th1bill
Jan 4th 2009, 09:00 PM
What happened to their original home?
... Brian, I in no way am willing to do the research on the subject once more for your benefit but Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan and all the other contributors are still there. They have simply refused to return top the homes of their fathers.
... Now, to the subject at hand and ignoring the rabbit trail you tossed in there. You have in no way even attempted to deal with the actual meat of my first reply to you. I honestly do not care what your father did in the big one any more than you care about the men and women that live today because of what I did in Vietnam. My comment was directed at your very un-thought out condemnation of Israels belated response to the rocket attacks and suicide bomb attacks on Israeli Civilians. Stay on subject and do not turn your relplys into personal and completely unrelated subject matter, please. I am not a moderator here but I will not allow you to hijack this string.

moonglow
Jan 4th 2009, 09:21 PM
What I think is that war is wrong and anyone provoaking it is wrong as well. If the Jews are God's chosen people then why don't they come out in the media and protest their govt. like children of the U.S. did during Vietnam. Why are they persistent in building the 3rd temple? If it's God's will then it will happen. I don't understand enough of Israel but all I can think about are the people and children who do not want this. How can they get a wink of sleep with bombs hitting nearby. I felt the same for the people in Iraq as well. All I can image from any war is innocent children of God crying their eyes out in fear. My heart goes out to them 100%. I myself can hardly wait untill our true King, Jesus Christ comes to reign on earth and show his people how a true leader leads a nation.

Bryan...yea you need to research this. Israel has been being bombed by this terrorist group for I think three years now! And they did nothing to strike back...until now. They got fed up with it...it was THERE children being terrorized as the bombs were directly towards schools!

If one bomb was shot in the US..just ONE..even if no one was hurt do you really think the US would do nothing? They wouldn't even wait to see if a second bomb was launched. They would be striking back. So the Jews are trying to stop the bombing the only way they can.

And yes its horrible to see children on the other side hurt...but you have to realize these children's parents elected Hamas ..this very violent, hateful extremist terrorist group to run their country in the first place. Plus Israel warned the Palestinian to get out of there...some have left but many haven't...putting their own children in danger. They make a big deal out of it when one of their children is killed, holding up their bodies for everyone to see...but they are the ones that did NOTHING to get their children to safty to start with. So who is to blame?

I heard one Palestine man was warned by Israel to get his family out as they lived near this terrorist group...he refused and now he, his wife and all his children are dead. They act like they care when one of their own dies, but yet they kill their own all the time...on purpose and by refusing to move to safety and by having terrorist over there to start with! its just insane...

Anyway this thread is about how this may or may not be the start of fulfilling prophecies. For me personally its just wait and see as this kinds of clashes have happened so many times in the past...and eventually blow over without the fulfillment of anything. All we can do is wait and see.

God bless

vinsight4u8
Jan 4th 2009, 09:33 PM
To markdrums

You commented as to the shortly part at the start of Revelation.

me
I see that as to mean the entire - or much Revelation is given so as reveal when the short parts - or quick parts are to happen.

such as - the third woe cometh quickly

Jesus comes quickly




Daniel 7:11
"...voice of the great words which the horn spake, I beheld, [even] till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame."



Rev. 19:20
"And I saw the beast....cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

vinsight4u8
Jan 4th 2009, 09:48 PM
Rev. 18
"...Babylon the great is falen, is fallen..."
v3
"For all nations have drunk..."



Jeremiah 25:17
"...made all the nations to drink..."
v26 (parts)
"...all the kingdoms of the world..."
"...and the king of Sheshach shall drink after..."

Notice the last king to get punished will be the king of Sheshach.


Jeremiah 51:41
"How is Sheshach taken! and how is the praise of the whole earth surprised! how is Babylon become an astonishment among the nations!"

v7
"Babylon [hath been] a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad."

50:46
"At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is heard among the nations."


51:25
"Behold, I [am] against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth..."


Isaiah 47:6 )Chaldeans
"...didst shew them no mercy; upon the ancient hast thou very heavily laid thy yoke."
v7
"And saidst I shall be a lady for ever...neither didst remember the latter end of it."
v8
"...that sayest in thine heart, I [am], and none else beside me; I shall not sit [as] as widow..."

not - widow
Rev. 18:7
"...for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow..."

BryanM
Jan 4th 2009, 10:23 PM
You both are right. I have not done my research on the conficts. To that is my ignorance on the subject. I skipped looking into the little guys and went for the big fish. This is why have questions. Thank you for your reply of starightforward english Moonglow. It sure is alot easier than understanding what rabbit trails, hijackings, and meat have to do with answering a simple question. It seems I have been acused of crime for asking simple questions on the matter. I also notcie I forgot my questions marks at the end of my questions in my first post which is proabably what started the fire. I think the jewish people and the palestinan people are both good people. It's the extremist from both sides that causes me to ask questions. We know that all nations will be decieved in the end and this is why I ask questions. Things I have learned latley are very disturbing to me and may shed some light on my approach of the subject. 80% of the land in Israel belongs to the Rothschild dynasty. They also financed Hitler in WWII. There are now only 5 nations on the world left without a Rothschild controlled central bank: Iran; North Korea; Sudan; Cuba; and Libya. Afghanistan and Iraq were on this list untill latley. I have always heard money is the root of ALL evil, and now I am starting to see the bigger picture . I apologize if I offended you in any way the1bill. I wasn't trying to argue on this subject. I was just looking for answers.

pinky
Jan 4th 2009, 10:40 PM
80% of the land in Israel belongs to the Rothschild dynasty. They also financed Hitler in WWII. There are now only 5 nations on the world left without a Rothschild controlled central bank: Iran; North Korea; Sudan; Cuba; and Libya. Afghanistan and Iraq were on this list untill latley.

Yes. They also are the bankers for the vatican.

Keep digging Bryan...........follow the money..........then examine their religion.

May the Lord bless you in your research.

Sincerely,
pinky

RevLogos
Jan 4th 2009, 11:37 PM
In 2005 Israel turned over the Gaza Strip to the Arabs. By force they removed the Jewish settlers in the area. The Arabs could have shown the world their desire to live in peace. They could have built a thriving nation-state, with trade and open borders with Israel. They could have lived in peace just as the other million Arabs within Israel already do.

Instead Hamas turned it into a haven for hate. They teach their children that Jews are the worst of creatures, offspring of apes and swine, cursed by their god just as Christians are. They attack Israel, killing innocents, women, children with unguided rockets and vests filled with explosives and nails. They do this for no other reason than their god tells them to. While the average Arab in Gaza would probably be content tilling their fields and selling their goods in peace, Hamas has made sure they are victims too.

This ideology of hate is fed by the Qur’an and Hadiths, and fueled by their benefactors in Iran. It did not have to be this way. This is the path they have chosen.

There will be no peace as long as this ideology remains. Not in Israel, not in Europe, not anywhere. Peace will come by the Hand of God.

moonglow
Jan 5th 2009, 12:51 AM
You both are right. I have not done my research on the conficts. To that is my ignorance on the subject. I skipped looking into the little guys and went for the big fish. This is why have questions. Thank you for your reply of starightforward english Moonglow. It sure is alot easier than understanding what rabbit trails, hijackings, and meat have to do with answering a simple question. It seems I have been acused of crime for asking simple questions on the matter. I also notcie I forgot my questions marks at the end of my questions in my first post which is proabably what started the fire. I think the jewish people and the palestinan people are both good people. It's the extremist from both sides that causes me to ask questions. We know that all nations will be decieved in the end and this is why I ask questions. Things I have learned latley are very disturbing to me and may shed some light on my approach of the subject. 80% of the land in Israel belongs to the Rothschild dynasty. They also financed Hitler in WWII. There are now only 5 nations on the world left without a Rothschild controlled central bank: Iran; North Korea; Sudan; Cuba; and Libya. Afghanistan and Iraq were on this list untill latley. I have always heard money is the root of ALL evil, and now I am starting to see the bigger picture . I apologize if I offended you in any way the1bill. I wasn't trying to argue on this subject. I was just looking for answers.

Glad I could help. And yea, without question marks a sentence can look like a statement...you can go back and edit your post if you want...

Anyway now with these research you have done you know something I didn't know! Very enlightening indeed...and rather sad...

Hang in there!

God bless

BryanM
Jan 5th 2009, 01:11 AM
Here some more info to think about taken from latruth.com.


The Rothschilds have been in control of the world for a very long time, their tentacles reaching into many aspects of our daily lives.The Rothschilds claim that they are Jewish, when in fact they are Khazars. They are from a country called Khazaria,which occupied the land locked between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea which is now predominantly occupied by Georgia. The reason the Rothschilds claim to be Jewish is that the Khazars under the instruction of the King, converted to the Jewish faith in 740 A.D., but of course that did not include converting their Asiatic Mongolian genes to the genesof the Jewish people.

You will find that approximately 90% of people in the world today who call themselves Jews are actually Khazars, or as they like to be known, Ashkenazi Jews. These people knowingly lie to the world with their claims that the land of Israel is theirs by birthright, when in actual fact their real homeland is over 800 miles away in Georgia.So, next time you hear an Israeli Prime Minister bleating about the so-called persecution of the Jews, consider this,every Prime Minister of Israel has been an Ashkenazi Jew. Therefore when all these Prime Ministers have curried favour with the West for their re-establishment of a Jewish homeland, they have knowingly and deliberately lied to you, as they were never from that region, and they well know it, because it is they who call themselves Ashkenazi Jews.


The Book of Revelation, Chapter 2, Verse 9, states the following which would appear to be about these Ashkenazi Jews:
"I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."The most wealthy bloodline in the world bar none and the leader of he Ashkenazi Jews in the world today is the Rothschild family. As you will see in the timeline, the Rothschilds have obtained this position through lies, manipulation and murder. Their bloodline also extends into the Royal Families of Europe, and the following family names: Astor; Bundy; Collins; duPont; Freeman; Kennedy; Morgan; Oppenheimer; Rockefeller; Sassoon; Schiff; Taft; and Van Duyn


Is their coat of arms described in the bible any where?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rotschilds_arms.jpg

bennie
Jan 5th 2009, 01:44 AM
Here some more info to think about taken from latruth.com.


The Rothschilds have been in control of the world for a very long time, their tentacles reaching into many aspects of our daily lives.The Rothschilds claim that they are Jewish, when in fact they are Khazars. They are from a country called Khazaria,which occupied the land locked between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea which is now predominantly occupied by Georgia. The reason the Rothschilds claim to be Jewish is that the Khazars under the instruction of the King, converted to the Jewish faith in 740 A.D., but of course that did not include converting their Asiatic Mongolian genes to the genesof the Jewish people.

You will find that approximately 90% of people in the world today who call themselves Jews are actually Khazars, or as they like to be known, Ashkenazi Jews. These people knowingly lie to the world with their claims that the land of Israel is theirs by birthright, when in actual fact their real homeland is over 800 miles away in Georgia.So, next time you hear an Israeli Prime Minister bleating about the so-called persecution of the Jews, consider this,every Prime Minister of Israel has been an Ashkenazi Jew. Therefore when all these Prime Ministers have curried favour with the West for their re-establishment of a Jewish homeland, they have knowingly and deliberately lied to you, as they were never from that region, and they well know it, because it is they who call themselves Ashkenazi Jews.


The Book of Revelation, Chapter 2, Verse 9, states the following which would appear to be about these Ashkenazi Jews:
"I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."The most wealthy bloodline in the world bar none and the leader of he Ashkenazi Jews in the world today is the Rothschild family. As you will see in the timeline, the Rothschilds have obtained this position through lies, manipulation and murder. Their bloodline also extends into the Royal Families of Europe, and the following family names: Astor; Bundy; Collins; duPont; Freeman; Kennedy; Morgan; Oppenheimer; Rockefeller; Sassoon; Schiff; Taft; and Van Duyn


Is their coat of arms described in the bible any where?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rotschilds_arms.jpg





nobody was suppose to ever "own" that land. It is God's land.

Leviticus 25:23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=25&verse=23&version=31&context=verse)
" 'The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants.

bennie

quiet dove
Jan 5th 2009, 02:30 AM
...what do you think?


tribulation near?


This thread is totally off topic at this point, to OP reminder here.

InSchoolStudy
Jan 5th 2009, 02:31 AM
What I think is that war is wrong and anyone provoaking it is wrong as well. If the Jews are God's chosen people then why don't they come out in the media and protest their govt. like children of the U.S. did during Vietnam. Why are they persistent in building the 3rd temple? If it's God's will then it will happen. I don't understand enough of Israel but all I can think about are the people and children who do not want this. How can they get a wink of sleep with bombs hitting nearby. I felt the same for the people in Iraq as well. All I can image from any war is innocent children of God crying their eyes out in fear. My heart goes out to them 100%. I myself can hardly wait untill our true King, Jesus Christ comes to reign on earth and show his people how a true leader leads a nation.

This might be off topic but anti war is the dumbest idea I have ever heard in my life.

If some ones gonna bomb you, you bomb back.


Of course you got the liberal hippies who would prefer to let the bombing to continue.

BryanM
Jan 5th 2009, 03:42 AM
bennie - "nobody was suppose to ever "own" that land. It is God's land."

I agree 100%. That includes every square inch of Earth.


InSchoolStudy

"This might be off topic but anti war is the dumbest idea I have ever heard in my life. If some ones gonna bomb you, you bomb back."

Hmm I wonder if Jesus thinks bombing is the correct way to solve conflict. I seriously doubt it considering a large portion of the blood being shed is of his innocent children. This is as dumb as the comment I read that Jesus was coming back to kill people wielding a sword. The bible says ,by the sword of his mouth. That means with "one word", he will conquer, not by dropping bombs or using a sword to physically kill people.

I really thought that this was a christian forum, but some of the responses I read just startle me. I gave my opinion of the current situation in Gaza and all hell broke out from some. For those that don't know, Jesus taught a doctrine of love. You cannot conquer evil with evil, but you can with love, as it will be done in the end.

quiet dove
Jan 5th 2009, 03:54 AM
This OP has run it's course.