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mikebr
Jan 2nd 2009, 12:18 AM
I've often heard that every Christian doctrine was taught in Genesis. Can you think of any that weren't?

yaza
Jan 2nd 2009, 12:33 AM
I've often heard that every Christian doctrine was taught in Genesis. Can you think of any that weren't?
i can only think of one, the secret coming of god to snatch away his people from the earth before anything bad comes.

Whispering Grace
Jan 2nd 2009, 12:34 AM
i can only think of one, the secret coming of god to snatch away his people from the earth before anything bad comes.

Actually, a form of that was seen in the Noah's Ark story. ;)

BrckBrln
Jan 2nd 2009, 02:12 AM
Hmmm, I've never heard this before. It's intriguing.

mikebr
Jan 2nd 2009, 02:20 AM
Hmmm, I've never heard this before. It's intriguing.


Maybe we should list some doctrines that are?

markdrums
Jan 2nd 2009, 02:41 AM
I've often heard that every Christian doctrine was taught in Genesis. Can you think of any that weren't?

You come up with some of the most interesting questions! ;)

This will take some digging into for sure. But as far as "Christian" doctrine goes, (technecially that is) "Christianity" wasn't established until after Jesus' crucifixion.

BUT..... All the OT types & shadows pointed forward to the ultimate fulfillment in Jesus. So we'll find references & parallels to Jesus & the New Testament ALL THROUGHOUT the Old Testament.

That said, when we talk about essential Christian doctrine, we must include the birth, crucifixion & resurrection of our Savior. Those three things hadn't happened yet when Genesis was written, but were they mentioned, or mirrored, or referenced at all?

THAT, I think, would be the big question.

:)

Athanasius
Jan 2nd 2009, 02:41 AM
I've often heard that every Christian doctrine was taught in Genesis. Can you think of any that weren't?

Can you show me some that were?

Walstib
Jan 2nd 2009, 02:55 AM
Our heavenly Father willing to sacrifice His only son.

Gen 22

for one...

Peace,
Joe

mikebr
Jan 2nd 2009, 02:55 AM
Can you show me some that were?

Here's another's views.

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/5073/

Brother Mark
Jan 2nd 2009, 03:05 AM
Good thread Mike. We see many doctrines in Genesis...

1. Salvation by grace and through faith.
2. Transformation (i.e. Enoch)
3. Judgment
4. Salvation in Christ (the seed of the woman, sacrifice, Isaac and Noah's ark, among many others)
5. Tongues (babel)

And many others.

Romber
Jan 2nd 2009, 04:13 AM
Interesting topic. Will be interesting to see everyones response.

Just a question, What would be considered major church doctrine?

Sirus
Jan 3rd 2009, 07:52 PM
bump

awe...
I was looking forward to much more.

Brother Mark
Jan 3rd 2009, 09:11 PM
bump

awe...
I was looking forward to much more.

Isaac was offered on the same mount that Jerusalem was built on. In other words, it was in the same location of the temple and where Christ was crucified.

Mark F
Jan 3rd 2009, 10:26 PM
From the very beginning we are shown what is acceptable to God and what is not. You could say, we are shown that we must approach God on His terms, not ours.

The account of Cain and Able and their offerings.

Able's shows us that an innocent victim must die, blood must be shed. Also that we need a substitute to go in our stead.

Cain's offering was the work of his own hands, then he was angered that God did not accept it.

So in Able we see salvation by faith.
In Cain we see the religion of works.


There is even earlier the coats of skin that God used to cloth Adam and Eve. Again, an innocent victim died, it was in it's entirety a work of God, not by an effort of Adam or Eve. Blood was shed. God also immeadiately performed this and did not leave them "naked".


In types there are many.

Mark F
Jan 3rd 2009, 10:29 PM
I've often heard that every Christian doctrine was taught in Genesis. Can you think of any that weren't?

Sorry, I read this too fast! Didn't pay close enough attention, the last word is important!!!LOL, sorry not trying to derail the thread.

mikebr
Jan 4th 2009, 01:43 AM
Sorry, I read this too fast! Didn't pay close enough attention, the last word is important!!!LOL, sorry not trying to derail the thread.


Quite alright Mark. I am still curious to see if there are any doctrines not covered in Genesis.

yaza
Jan 5th 2009, 03:03 AM
Actually, a form of that was seen in the Noah's Ark story. ;)
the account of noah and the first time god destroyed the earth is more in line with gods people going through the trouble not being transported off the earth, just like gods people in egypt during the plauges they were there the whole time. psalm 91. god bless

Sirus
Jan 5th 2009, 04:10 AM
not if Israel remains and the born again are translated out

Mithrandir
Jan 21st 2009, 08:02 AM
There are the sufferings of Christ, and the glory which should follow, foreshown in Joseph (one of the "twelve" sons of Jacob). Joseph was "betrayed by his brothers" (Judas, of the "twelve" disciples betrayed Christ), and sold into bondage (as was Christ for thirty pieces of silver), imprisoned (foreshadowing the tomb), and afterwards exalted to "right hand" man in Egypt (resurrected in glory).

Another is when God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, and just as Abraham was lifting his knife to slaughter Isaac, God stopped Abraham and "provided a sacrifice" in Isaac’s place:

Genesis 22:10, 11, 13 Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son. But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here am I." And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram, caught in a thicket by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son.

This was showing us the "Sacrifice" God would make with His own Son (notice even the horns of the ram caught in the thorns, foreshadowing the "crown of thorns" around His head). Rather than Isaac (man) having to perish, God provided the "Sacrifice" in his place

There is the tribulation parallel

Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

To ease the burden on the Saints; how long did He shorten it to?

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.


The TYPE of "Great Tribulation" in Genesis being Noah’s Flood.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Notice the "type":

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

What kind of flood do you think will come out of the serpent’s mouth? The same thing that always comes out of his mouth….a FLOOD of BS; to deceive.

So what does this have to do with the shortened FIVE MONTH tribulation?

Genesis 7:24 And the waters [Noah’s flood] prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

How long is an hundred and fifty days? FIVE MONTHS.

rom826
Jan 21st 2009, 07:22 PM
You come up with some of the most interesting questions! ;)

This will take some digging into for sure. But as far as "Christian" doctrine goes, (technecially that is) "Christianity" wasn't established until after Jesus' crucifixion.

BUT..... All the OT types & shadows pointed forward to the ultimate fulfillment in Jesus. So we'll find references & parallels to Jesus & the New Testament ALL THROUGHOUT the Old Testament.

That said, when we talk about essential Christian doctrine, we must include the birth, crucifixion & resurrection of our Savior. Those three things hadn't happened yet when Genesis was written, but were they mentioned, or mirrored, or referenced at all?

THAT, I think, would be the big question.

:)

The birth, crucifixion and resurrection of our savior were all prophesied in Gen 3:15.

Gen 3:15


And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed ( the birth of Christ); it shall bruise thy head (the ressurection of Christ), and thou shalt bruise his heel (the death of Christ).

Emanate
Jan 21st 2009, 08:14 PM
Actually, a form of that was seen in the Noah's Ark story. ;)


Uh, actually Noah rode an Ark through the storm. He was not "snatched away" from anything.

Emanate
Jan 21st 2009, 08:16 PM
not if Israel remains and the born again are translated out


are we not one tree? one new man?

Emanate
Jan 21st 2009, 08:19 PM
We do not see communion or baptism or the abolition of circumcision.

mikebr
Jan 21st 2009, 08:24 PM
We do not see communion or baptism or the abolition of circumcision.


I quess people would argue that we see types?


What about heaven and hell?

Mithrandir
Jan 21st 2009, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Emanate
Uh, actually Noah rode an Ark through the storm. He was not "snatched away" from anything.


Agreed ;)! I think most people in this particular forum realize the pre-trib fly away doctrine is false (and actually dangerous).

Did you see some of the cool parallels I mentioned :cool:.

BCF
Jan 21st 2009, 09:55 PM
Agreed ;)! I think most people in this particular forum realize the pre-trib fly away doctrine is false (and actually dangerous).

Did you see some of the cool parallels I mentioned :cool:.

You my friend may not think that it is so false and dangerous of a belief, if one day you are walking down the street talking to a brother or a sister and all of a sudden they disappear for no apparent reason, and you are left their alone wondering why.:confused

We must be careful, b/c what we think we may know to be true.....may come to not be true after all.:hmm:

God Bless,

Dave ;)

Mithrandir
Jan 21st 2009, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by BCF
if one day you are walking down the street talking to a brother or a sister and all of a sudden they disappear for no apparent reason, and you are left their alone wondering why


I'd be wondering why, but because of II Thessalonians chapter 2, I would at least be able to rule out a pre-trib rapture. I'd would be more inclined to think that they ditched me for saying something offensive :D.

BCF
Jan 21st 2009, 11:18 PM
I'd be wondering why, but because of II Thessalonians chapter 2, I would at least be able to rule out a pre-trib rapture. I'd would be more inclined to think that they ditched me for saying something offensive :D.


Okay, you can say that if you want my friend.....but just remember......only half of us on here are correct according to God. The other half are not. I hope that you are among the half that is correct my friend.:hmm:

God Bless

Dave

Mithrandir
Jan 21st 2009, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by BCF
Okay, you can say that if you want my friend.....but just remember......only half of us on here are correct according to God. The other half are not. I hope that you are among the half that is correct my friend.


I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. These verses say it all.

II Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

That is the subject, Jesus Christ's return, and Paul tells us the how and when we gather back to Him.

II Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul says; "Don't be wishy washy about this subject. This is exactly how it's going down".

II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Don't let anyone tell you it's going to happen any other way than what I (Paul) am telling you right now! We ARE NOT going to gather back to Christ until AFTER that man of sin is revealed, NOT BEFORE.

II Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Until those events take place, I'm not going to be; as Paul says; "soon shaken in mind" :saint:.


PS - How did we get on to this subject anyway? I just wanted to point out some cool Gospel parallels from Genesis.

TEITZY
Jan 21st 2009, 11:47 PM
I've often heard that every Christian doctrine was taught in Genesis. Can you think of any that weren't?

I'm not sure that "every" Christian doctrine is taught in Genesis but most would agree that probably all the 'major' doctrines are taught there (even though they may be in seed form) and then are expanded upon through the rest of the Scriptures (progressive revelation).

One that springs to mind in the trinity or plurality of the Godhead.

Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—

Gen 11:7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”

Genesis 18 & 32 also document a 'physical' appearance or incarnation of the "LORD", which undoubtedly was the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Cheers
Leigh

BrckBrln
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:18 AM
Genesis 24 is a good example of the doctrine of Providence.

fontz
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:50 AM
Is not Genesis 14:18 a type of communion

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

TEITZY
Jan 22nd 2009, 01:25 AM
Is not Genesis 14:18 a type of communion

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Yes also both Abraham & Melchizedek are excellent examples of God's sovereign election of believers. It is clear that God "chose" Abraham (Neh 9:7) out of paganism while Melchizedek was a gentile king living amongst pagans in Canaan and yet he was the "priest of the most High God". God had obviously revealed Himself to Melchizedek as He had done to Abraham according to His sovereign will. It's no surprise that Melchizedek refers to God as the "most High God" since this title is closely associated with His sovereign power (Dan 4:34-35, 5:18-21).

Cheers
Leigh

Sirus
Jan 22nd 2009, 02:33 AM
are we not one tree? one new man?Absolutely. How does my statement imply otherwise?

threebigrocks
Jan 22nd 2009, 03:06 AM
We do not see communion or baptism or the abolition of circumcision.

How are those alone doctrine? Really, these things are outward signs of what we hold to.

Communion can easily be seen in Genesis as Adam and Eve walked intimately with God in the garden. Ultimate communion actually!

BCF
Jan 22nd 2009, 03:25 AM
PS - How did we get on to this subject anyway? I just wanted to point out some cool Gospel parallels from Genesis.


I don't know.....all I did was make a statement to something that you said. You are the one who got all defensive about it.

God Bless,

Dave

Emanate
Jan 22nd 2009, 03:28 AM
How are those alone doctrine? Really, these things are outward signs of what we hold to.

Communion can easily be seen in Genesis as Adam and Eve walked intimately with God in the garden. Ultimate communion actually!


I do not recall using the word "alone:

So you see Adam and Eve communing with God as equal to eating a miniscule piece of bread and grape juice? I would say they are two very different things.

Emanate
Jan 22nd 2009, 03:30 AM
Is not Genesis 14:18 a type of communion

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Well, no doubt that is closer to the christian practice of communion than that found in the gospels.

threebigrocks
Jan 22nd 2009, 03:44 AM
I do not recall using the word "alone:

So you see Adam and Eve communing with God as equal to eating a miniscule piece of bread and grape juice? I would say they are two very different things.

In order to not sidetrack an entire thread, I'll just say this: one is a picture, a reflection, of the other.

mikebr
Jan 23rd 2009, 02:42 AM
In order to not sidetrack an entire thread, I'll just say this: one is a picture, a reflection, of the other.


This entire thread has been sidetracked from the beginning. :lol::lol::lol:


I asked for doctrines NOT in Genesis and I've mostly gotten those that ARE!

Are you folks A.D.D.?:rofl::rofl::rofl:

My heart's Desire
Jan 23rd 2009, 03:06 AM
I've often heard that every Christian doctrine was taught in Genesis. Can you think of any that weren't?I've also know about types and shadows but learning more and more. Some say also something about the book of Isaiah being a Bible within a Bible as well. (or something like that!)

rom826
Jan 23rd 2009, 03:45 AM
I've often heard that every Christian doctrine was taught in Genesis. Can you think of any that weren't?

How about the mystery the Jews and Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body. If that were taught in Genesis, it would not have been a mystery when Paul wrote about it.

mikebr
Jan 24th 2009, 03:22 AM
How about the mystery the Jews and Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body. If that were taught in Genesis, it would not have been a mystery when Paul wrote about it.

Good thougts. Thanks

Walstib
Jan 24th 2009, 04:21 AM
Maybe we should list some doctrines that are?


I asked for doctrines NOT in Genesis and I've mostly gotten those that ARE! Are you folks A.D.D.?:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I don't think I am .... hows your memory. :P

Peace brother,
Joe

shepherdsword
Jan 24th 2009, 04:26 AM
We do not see communion or baptism or the abolition of circumcision.

We see a form of communion in the manna from heaven
Jesus said "I am the bread come down from heaven"

We also see a from of Baptism when they cross the red sea
"and they were all baptized into Moses"

although we don't the abolition of circumcision we do see that it is a shadow and type of the "circumcision of the heart"

shepherdsword
Jan 24th 2009, 04:29 AM
We do not see communion or baptism or the abolition of circumcision.



although we don't the abolition of circumcision we do see that it is a shadow and type of the "circumcision of the heart"

mikebr
Jan 24th 2009, 04:39 AM
I don't think I am .... hows your memory. :P

Peace brother,
Joe

I can't remember..................um No I can't.:hug:

yaza
Jan 25th 2009, 10:23 PM
How about the mystery the Jews and Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body. If that were taught in Genesis, it would not have been a mystery when Paul wrote about it. god told abraham he would make him a father of many nations thus we are children of abraham if we believe. love yaza