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CoffeeCat
Jan 2nd 2009, 04:13 AM
19 This is the account of Abraham's son Isaac.
Abraham became the father of Isaac, 20 and Isaac was forty years old when he married Rebekah daughter of Bethuel the Aramean from Paddan Aram [d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2025;&version=31;#fen-NIV-679d)] and sister of Laban the Aramean. 21 Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren. The LORD answered his prayer, and his wife Rebekah became pregnant. 22 The babies jostled each other within her, and she said, "Why is this happening to me?" So she went to inquire of the LORD.
23 The LORD said to her,
"Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples from within you will be separated;
one people will be stronger than the other,
and the older will serve the younger."


Verse 23 really interests me. Which nations were these? If not literal nations, could they perhaps be peoples or groups? It occurred to me that Jews and Christians fit verse 23 very, very well. Two peoples separated. One stronger than the other. The older serving the younger. It seems to fit.....


Thoughts, please? :)

Diolectic
Jan 2nd 2009, 04:17 AM
Verse 23 really interests me. Which nations were these? If not literal nations, could they perhaps be peoples or groups? It occurred to me that Jews and Christians fit verse 23 very, very well. Two peoples separated. One stronger than the other. The older serving the younger. It seems to fit.....
Thoughts, please? :)The two Nations are Israel & Edom.
13: even as it has been written, "I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau." Mal. 1:1-2 Gen 25:23
Two nations are in her womb, not that God hates Esau personally.
The reason why the Spirit says this is because it is to Israel, not the person of Israel which is Jacob.
So far the Paul has been proving his point, that a great part of the seed of Abraham are excluded from the special promises of God, even the literal Israel. Paul, now introduces and refutes an objection...ect...

CoffeeCat
Jan 2nd 2009, 04:50 AM
Thank you for the response! :)

I guess I should add that although the two nations might be literal nations.... it seems to strike me as a double meaning, or a symbolic one. I suppose a stone usually is just a stone.... but the verse struck me as having an uncanny similarity to Judaism and Christianity. I suppose my problem is that I'm looking at it from modern eyes, and wondering if there could be some figurative message as well as a literal one, when likely only a literal one was intended -- the one you gave.

Butch5
Jan 2nd 2009, 10:53 PM
Thank you for the response! :)

I guess I should add that although the two nations might be literal nations.... it seems to strike me as a double meaning, or a symbolic one. I suppose a stone usually is just a stone.... but the verse struck me as having an uncanny similarity to Judaism and Christianity. I suppose my problem is that I'm looking at it from modern eyes, and wondering if there could be some figurative message as well as a literal one, when likely only a literal one was intended -- the one you gave.

Hi CC,

It was Israel and Edom, which came from Jacob and Esau. To see why God hated Esau (Edom) read the book of Obadiah.

drew
Jan 3rd 2009, 09:00 PM
I will agree with the others - Israel and Edom.