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Gulah Papyrus
Jan 3rd 2009, 12:13 AM
From Luke 19:24-27

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’”

I was in a discussion with a Muslim and he referenced this verse and asked me if the 'Christian Jesus' was promoting terrorism?

Can someone please explain this verse?

Thanks in advance.

Sirus
Jan 3rd 2009, 01:23 AM
It concerns the kingdom of God that does not come with observation, not kingdom of heaven
Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

It is at His return
Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain noble man went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

He said to occupy til He returns
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

The citizens would not have the noble man rule over them
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

The noble man returned. He judges the ten servants.
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

The servant in the kingdom of God that had done nothing to increase what was given him had what was given him taken away but he was not cast into outer darkness (did not loose salvation because of a lack of works) like the parallel parable of the kingdom of heaven in Matthew.
Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

Then those that would not have the noble man rule over them were slain.
Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Looking at parallel parables this would the the angels gathering the tares from the kingdom of heaven parable. Tares are never found in kingdom of God parables. Only those born again are in the kingdom of God.

I know most of that will not be accepted but to answer just your question it is when Christ returns. In no way should a christian interpret this for now and go on crusades to occupy by force like sadly has happened in the past.

scourge39
Jan 3rd 2009, 01:56 AM
Jesus is fortelling the overthrow of the Jewish priesthood and the rise of his Jewish apostles. The priesthood not only rejected Christ as Messiah, but repeatedly refused to evangelize Gentiles. As a result, the obstinate priesthood was overthrown and Jesus' Jewish apostles assumed their role as heralds of the Gospel and evangelists of Gentiles.

If you doubt my interpretation, please read Luke 4:14-30 as well. Jesus refers to Elijah's witness to the widow of Zarephath (who was herself a Gentile). Immediately, afterwards, the people in the synagogue where he was speaking drove him out of town and attempted to throw him off a cliff.

Many of Jesus' parables are rebuking the Jewish leaders for not evangelizing Gentiles and incorporating them as fellow brethren. This is shown best with the parable of the prodigal son. The other parables in Luke 15 serve to drive home the same point. The older son who stayed represents Israel, and her refusal to evangelize Gentiles and see Yahweh as the Father of Jews and Gentiles. Jesus was warning them to get rid of their ethnic superiority and treat Gentiles as equal brothers in Christ. God's plan all along was to incorporate Gentiles into a singular people of God, but the Jewish priesthood obviously had other ideas. Jesus alludes to the inclusion of Gentiles in John 10:16, where he says, "16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." (NIV) If you prefer it: "16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." (John 10:16, KJV).

quiet dove
Jan 3rd 2009, 02:27 AM
From Luke 19:24-27

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’”

I was in a discussion with a Muslim and he referenced this verse and asked me if the 'Christian Jesus' was promoting terrorism?

Can someone please explain this verse?

Thanks in advance.

That sounds like a situation I would get myself into. And something someone would pop off at me :hug:

What this Muslim does not understand or accept, is that Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords. Rightful judge. That is not terrorism, it's justice.

Gulah Papyrus
Jan 3rd 2009, 03:06 AM
That sounds like a situation I would get myself into. And something someone would pop off at me :hug:

What this Muslim does not understand or accept, is that Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords. Rightful judge. That is not terrorism, it's justice.I know that, and you know that, but I don't think 'it's justice' is going to hold much weight because that's what he says about the teaching of the Quran.

Still looking for someone to put 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’” into context showing that Jesus wasn't promoting terrorism against non-believers...

Sirus
Jan 3rd 2009, 03:21 AM
Still looking for someone to put 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’” into context showing that Jesus wasn't promoting terrorism against non-believers...
Can an apple tree produce an orange?
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then.....
Why try and convince him of a lie?

MacGyver
Jan 3rd 2009, 03:26 AM
This comes from a preferred commentary of mine, CORNELIUS Ŕ LAPIDE

But those mine enemies (the Jews, His citizens, who would not have Him to reign over them) bring them hither—to my Tribunal, in the valley of Jehosaphat and Jerusalem—and kill them before Me.” In the Greek, “Kill them before my face.” Our Lord alludes to those victorious kings who slew and destroyed their conquered rebels. By this destruction Christ signifies the extreme judgment of the Jews and His other enemies, and their own condemnation to eternal death in Gehenna, and that a living and vital death, where they will be perpetually tormented by death-dealing flames, and yet will never die. Our Lord alludes to Titus, who slaughtered the conquered Jews. He describes precisely to the letter the condemnation of the Jews, and the Gehenna which He has appointed for them when He shall return from heaven to judge and condemn them and the reprobate.

quiet dove
Jan 3rd 2009, 03:59 AM
I know that, and you know that, but I don't think 'it's justice' is going to hold much weight because that's what he says about the teaching of the Quran.

Still looking for someone to put 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’” into context showing that Jesus wasn't promoting terrorism against non-believers...

I understand that, I was just putting it at the heart of the matter. But from what I can understand, it foretold of the destruction to come upon Jerusalem and the fate of the nation that rejects Christ. But he is not going to like that explanation either.

And those who reject Christ are God's enemy and will die, there is no sugar coating that to his liking and if he wants to justify murder thats what he will do.

Yukerboy
Jan 3rd 2009, 04:19 AM
I've said this before...

We as Bible believing Christians must admit that God has a role in bringing evil about and that in doing so he is holy and blameless. God does bring sins about, but always for his own good purposes. So in bringing sin to pass he does not himself commit sin.

As Paul said, God made the law so that trespasses would increase.

God knew what Satan would do....and created him anyway.

God knew what vessels of dishounor would do.

God knew what Adam would choose.

God permitted Satan to kill Job's family.

God appointed Hitler to be the leader of Germany.

All of these are for God's good purposes to be fulfilled.

So, the idea that Luke 19:27 can be construed as terrorism is legit, but it is only to fulfill God's good purposes.

Does God condone terrorism? Not at all. However, he does use terrorism to fulfill his good purposes.

reformedct
Jan 3rd 2009, 04:24 AM
When Jesus returns He is gonna open a can on every last unbeliever in the universe. The birds will feast on their flesh. He will come with eyes of fire and a sword out of Hi mouth and he will CRUSH the nations and rule them with an iron rod.

That is the ending for all unbelievers but it is Jesus who will do it not us