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chad
Jan 3rd 2009, 06:00 AM
What is the meaning of Revelation 21:1

(Rev 21:1 NIV) Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.


As Christians we often talk about heaven and hades and the lake of fire, but so often we (including myself) forget about the New Earth talked about in Revelation 21:1


In terms of eternity, we say we will be in heaven with God, or that satan and his angels and his followers will be cast into the lake of fire - but we don't often talk about the new earth.


We know that the new earth will not have a sea. And we know that the old heaven and the old warth will pass away.


My questions are:


1) Who goes to the new heaven and who goes to the new earth ?


2) What is the purpose of the new earth?



Chad :rolleyes:

OldChurchGuy
Jan 3rd 2009, 07:32 AM
What is the meaning of Revelation 21:1

(Rev 21:1 NIV) Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.


As Christians we often talk about heaven and hades and the lake of fire, but so often we (including myself) forget about the New Earth talked about in Revelation 21:1


In terms of eternity, we say we will be in heaven with God, or that satan and his angels and his followers will be cast into the lake of fire - but we don't often talk about the new earth.


We know that the new earth will not have a sea. And we know that the old heaven and the old warth will pass away.


My questions are:


1) Who goes to the new heaven and who goes to the new earth ?


2) What is the purpose of the new earth?



Chad :rolleyes:

The answer depends on how one wants to interpret Revelation. Writings like Revelation are known as Apocalyptic writings and have a similar base idea which is that the current world is so corrupt and evil that it is beyond hope. Therefore God will eventually destroy this world and replace it with a perfect one.

All believers go to this new earth and the purpose of this new earth is because the current earth is beyond redemption.

Whether this is a literal or symbolic act depends on how one wants to interpret Revelation.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

scourge39
Jan 3rd 2009, 07:34 AM
Revelation 21:1 refers to the transformation of God's entire created order. Heaven and earth are conjoined in Biblical thought. The 'sea' is frequently a reference to evil that opposes God's people and plans. John is saying in this verse that there will no longer be any trouble caused by Satan and his minions.

The concept of people 'going to heaven, ' to put it in popular parlance, isn't spelled out as explicitly in Scripture as many people assume. There isn't enough info concerning 'heaven' or 'paradise' provided in Scripture to exhaustively explain the nature of them.

The point John is making in Revelation 21:1 is that all of creation will be redeemed at the Second Coming and restored to a glorified state like it was in before the fall of humanity. The Greek word that John uses to describe heaven and earth is 'kainos,' which denotes 'freshness'. It is describing a change in the quality of the state of heaven and earth. It is not describing a change in substance. God is going to take the present heaven and earth and renew it. He's not going to destroy them and create a brand new universe. 'kainos' is used by Paul when he speaks of a believer being a 'new creation' in 2 Corinthians 4:16, our lives are changed and improved, but we don't crawl back into our mothers' wombs and start over from birth. Instead, we remain the same people physically, but our lives have a new purpose and direction in Christ.

chad
Jan 3rd 2009, 10:12 AM
Renew it? Hmmmm. I hope there isn't a 4 billion year gap between between verse 21 and 22. ;)


Renew the existing earth - Hmmm, maybe the gap theory has some validity after all? :eek:


The word for 'heaven' used in Revelation 21:1 is ouranos G3772 and relates to the air or sky?

Peter also talks about this as well

(2 Pet 3:10 NIV) But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

Heavens in 2 Peter 3:10 = ouranos = sky


(2 Pet 3:11 NIV) Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives

(2 Pet 3:12 NIV) as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

(2 Pet 3:13 NIV) But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.


Chad :rolleyes:


Revelation 21:1 refers to the transformation of God's entire created order. Heaven and earth are conjoined in Biblical thought. The 'sea' is frequently a reference to evil that opposes God's people and plans. John is saying in this verse that there will no longer be any trouble caused by Satan and his minions.

The concept of people 'going to heaven, ' to put it in popular parlance, isn't spelled out as explicitly in Scripture as many people assume. There isn't enough info concerning 'heaven' or 'paradise' provided in Scripture to exhaustively explain the nature of them.

The point John is making in Revelation 21:1 is that all of creation will be redeemed at the Second Coming and restored to a glorified state like it was in before the fall of humanity. The Greek word that John uses to describe heaven and earth is 'kainos,' which denotes 'freshness'. It is describing a change in the quality of the state of heaven and earth. It is not describing a change in substance. God is going to take the present heaven and earth and renew it. He's not going to destroy them and create a brand new universe. 'kainos' is used by Paul when he speaks of a believer being a 'new creation' in 2 Corinthians 4:16, our lives are changed and improved, but we don't crawl back into our mothers' wombs and start over from birth. Instead, we remain the same people physically, but our lives have a new purpose and direction in Christ.

Teke
Jan 4th 2009, 12:05 AM
What is the meaning of Revelation 21:1

(Rev 21:1 NIV) Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.


As Christians we often talk about heaven and hades and the lake of fire, but so often we (including myself) forget about the New Earth talked about in Revelation 21:1


In terms of eternity, we say we will be in heaven with God, or that satan and his angels and his followers will be cast into the lake of fire - but we don't often talk about the new earth.


We know that the new earth will not have a sea. And we know that the old heaven and the old warth will pass away.


My questions are:


1) Who goes to the new heaven and who goes to the new earth ?


2) What is the purpose of the new earth?



Chad :rolleyes:

The best way to understand scripture is to use your example of Jesus Christ (in this case think of the Transfiguration). The NT teaching that the present world will pass away (Matt. 5:18, 2 Peter 3:10-12, 1 John 2:17) does not mean the present creation will be utterly destroyed. It will be totally renewed (Rev. 21:5, Is 65:17-25, Rom 8:19-22, 2 Peter 3:13): freed from corruption, purified, transfigured, glorified. The first cosmos will pass away, the sea will be no more (symbolic of chaos, turbulence, and unrest that will one day cease).

It is what I call "transfiguration by grace". :)

Ephesians 5:16, Col. 4:5 "redeeming the time". The goal is not to abandon the world, but to keep oneself in Christ and salvage as much as possible from the evil world. Christians renounce the fallenness of the world, not creation itself.

quiet dove
Jan 4th 2009, 12:13 AM
I'm gonna move this over to ETC guys.

chad
Jan 4th 2009, 12:34 AM
No, I don't really understand it. Are you saying there is going to be no new heaven and no new earth as talked about in Rev 21:1 :confused



The best way to understand scripture is to use your example of Jesus Christ (in this case think of the Transfiguration). The NT teaching that the present world will pass away (Matt. 5:18, 2 Peter 3:10-12, 1 John 2:17) does not mean the present creation will be utterly destroyed. It will be totally renewed (Rev. 21:5, Is 65:17-25, Rom 8:19-22, 2 Peter 3:13): freed from corruption, purified, transfigured, glorified. The first cosmos will pass away, the sea will be no more (symbolic of chaos, turbulence, and unrest that will one day cease).

It is what I call "transfiguration by grace". :)

Ephesians 5:16, Col. 4:5 "redeeming the time". The goal is not to abandon the world, but to keep oneself in Christ and salvage as much as possible from the evil world. Christians renounce the fallenness of the world, not creation itself.

Teke
Jan 4th 2009, 01:05 AM
No, I don't really understand it. Are you saying there is going to be no new heaven and no new earth as talked about in Rev 21:1 :confused

It will be a renewed earth (which includes the heavens or cosmos, meaning the whole universe, universal in scope). Not new in the sense that this one won't exist any more.

It's likened to the born again concept.
2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, [B]I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The regenerative power of Christ (God's grace) makes all things new.

quiet dove
Jan 4th 2009, 01:29 AM
What is the meaning of Revelation 21:1

(Rev 21:1 NIV) Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.


As Christians we often talk about heaven and hades and the lake of fire, but so often we (including myself) forget about the New Earth talked about in Revelation 21:1


In terms of eternity, we say we will be in heaven with God, or that satan and his angels and his followers will be cast into the lake of fire - but we don't often talk about the new earth.


We know that the new earth will not have a sea. And we know that the old heaven and the old warth will pass away.


My questions are:


1) Who goes to the new heaven and who goes to the new earth ?


2) What is the purpose of the new earth?



Chad :rolleyes:

I'm thinking there is going to be new ones

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

Whatever is coming after this earth, and will be in eternity, will be much more than this earth being renewed.

MacGyver
Jan 4th 2009, 02:51 AM
1) Who goes to the new heaven and who goes to the new earth ?
Those after Judgment Day who have glorified bodies. St. Augustine says, "And by this universal conflagration the qualities of the corruptible elements which suited our corruptible bodies shall utterly perish, and our substance shall receive such qualities as shall, by a wonderful transmutation, harmonize with our immortal bodies, so that, as the world itself is renewed to some better thing, it is fitly accommodated to men, themselves renewed in their flesh to some better thing. "



2) What is the purpose of the new earth?
I think St. Andrew of Caesarea said it best: This passage does not speak of the obliteration of creation but of its renewal into something better. For as the apostle says, "this creation will be freed from the bondage of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.(Rom. 8:21)" Also the holy psalmnist says, "You change them like a raiment, and they pass away.(102:26)" The renewal of that which has grown old does not involve the annihilation of its substance but rather indicates the smoothing out of its agedness and its wrinkles. It is custom among us to say concerning persons who have in some way become better or have become worse, 'someone has become someone else.' And so it is indicated concerning the heaven and the earth that they have 'passed away' instead of have 'changed.' And this is also the same with us who have received death; we will change from a former condition to a better lot.

chad
Jan 4th 2009, 03:20 AM
I think I understand what your saying now. Just as we get a new heavenly body, the former earth and heaven will pass away and it will be transformed into a New Heaven and New Earth.

As Jesus was transfigured into a heavenly body at the transfiguration, so the earth and heaven will be transformed into a new heaven and a new earth?


Chad :rolleyes:





Those after Judgment Day who have glorified bodies. St. Augustine says, "And by this universal conflagration the qualities of the corruptible elements which suited our corruptible bodies shall utterly perish, and our substance shall receive such qualities as shall, by a wonderful transmutation, harmonize with our immortal bodies, so that, as the world itself is renewed to some better thing, it is fitly accommodated to men, themselves renewed in their flesh to some better thing. "



I think St. Andrew of Caesarea said it best: This passage does not speak of the obliteration of creation but of its renewal into something better. For as the apostle says, "this creation will be freed from the bondage of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.(Rom. 8:21)" Also the holy psalmnist says, "You change them like a raiment, and they pass away.(102:26)" The renewal of that which has grown old does not involve the annihilation of its substance but rather indicates the smoothing out of its agedness and its wrinkles. It is custom among us to say concerning persons who have in some way become better or have become worse, 'someone has become someone else.' And so it is indicated concerning the heaven and the earth that they have 'passed away' instead of have 'changed.' And this is also the same with us who have received death; we will change from a former condition to a better lot.

third hero
Jan 4th 2009, 05:12 AM
What is the meaning of Revelation 21:1

My questions are:


1) Who goes to the new heaven and who goes to the new earth ?


2) What is the purpose of the new earth?



Chad :rolleyes:

Well Chad,
I think I am going to answer your questions in reverse order.

The purpose of the New heaven and New earth is the idea that the old system, the old order, the universe of sin and death, will be destroyed and done away with forever. There will bew no more sin, ever. When the Lord destroys this earth and the heavens with it, all of the evidence of sin will be completely destroyed, and not even the memory of it will exist. The purpose of this type of destruction is so that there will be avsolutely no way for the old system to return to existence once the heavens and the earth are destroyed.

With that said, only the believers from all time periods can enter into the New Earth. The reason being is because the wicked, all of them, by the time the New Earth comes into being, are sentenced and hurled in to the second Death, the Lake of Fire. Satan, Death, Hell, the Beast, the Wicked, the false prophet, and everything associated with sin and death will be either tossed into the Lake, or burned up completely, as Heaven and Earth will experience when the Lord hands the universe over to His Father. (2 Peter 3; 1 Corinthians 15:23-26). There will be no one left to enter into New Jerusalem except for the righteous. The believers from all time periods, from all races and nationalities, whether they be Jew or Gentile, will enter into New Jerusalem, the city of God on the New Earth, and there will be no more wicked, or sin.

I hope this helps a little.

chad
Jan 4th 2009, 08:18 AM
Teke,

I was thinking about what you said about the transfiguration. When Jesus was on the mount, he was transfigured into his heavenly form.

I wonder if creation was like this. Jesus appeared just like that in his heavenly form. If Jesus could be transformed instantly before the disciples, how much so could the heavens and the earth be created just like that in one day?

That is assuming that you believe Jesus was transfigured before the disciples and do not write off the account as some sort of 'vision'.

I would like to have seen some scientist try date the age of Jesus transfigured body using scientific methods to see what age they came up with? :rofl:


Chad :rolleyes:



The best way to understand scripture is to use your example of Jesus Christ (in this case think of the Transfiguration). The NT teaching that the present world will pass away (Matt. 5:18, 2 Peter 3:10-12, 1 John 2:17) does not mean the present creation will be utterly destroyed. It will be totally renewed (Rev. 21:5, Is 65:17-25, Rom 8:19-22, 2 Peter 3:13): freed from corruption, purified, transfigured, glorified. The first cosmos will pass away, the sea will be no more (symbolic of chaos, turbulence, and unrest that will one day cease).

It is what I call "transfiguration by grace". :)

Ephesians 5:16, Col. 4:5 "redeeming the time". The goal is not to abandon the world, but to keep oneself in Christ and salvage as much as possible from the evil world. Christians renounce the fallenness of the world, not creation itself.