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catlover
Jan 4th 2009, 12:23 AM
Do the Jews HAVE to rebuild the temple to fulfill prophecy? If so, do you think it will happen before the tribulation? Does it have to be in the exact same spot as the Dome of the Rock???

quiet dove
Jan 4th 2009, 12:26 AM
I think the Jews, or certain groups of them believe that the temple must be restored, rebuilt rather, to bring the Messiah they await.

However, as far as Christians go, or me anyway, I don't believe the temple must be rebuilt to bring Jesus Second Advent, I think prophecy teaches us it will be rebuilt, but not for the bringing about of Christ Second Advent.

I think if the temple is rebuilt while I am still alive I will be walking around bumping into things because I will only be looking up, but that does not mean the temple brought Christ Second Advent to pass, but that it is a sign it is soon.

There are groups definitely working to get a that temple built though.

markdrums
Jan 4th 2009, 12:26 AM
Do the Jews HAVE to rebuild the temple to fulfill prophecy? If so, do you think it will happen before the tribulation? Does it have to be in the exact same spot as the Dome of the Rock???


I know there will be mixed responses to this question....
My personal opinion is that there's no need for another temple. JESUS became the temple, which was raised in three days.


Here's a link to an article that sums up pretty much everything I would say about this toipic.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell46.html

markdrums
Jan 4th 2009, 12:31 AM
I think the Jews, or certain groups of them believe that the temple must be restored, rebuilt rather, to bring the Messiah they await.

However, as far as Christians go, or me anyway, I don't believe the temple must be rebuilt to bring Jesus Second Advent, I think prophecy teaches us it will be rebuilt, but not for the bringing about of Christ Second Advent.


I have to agree with you concerning whether or not the temple MUST be rebuilt.
There's nothing ANY of us can do to "usher in" Jesus' return.
God's time has been determined, & it's set in place. HE knows what time that is.

It has nothing to do with humans erecting a building to "bring him in".

As far as the temple being rebuilt at all...... I'll keep the reply short & just say that I'm not on the same page about scripture teaching that it WILL be rebuilt.

So, I guess it's a 50/50 split this time.
;)

Pilgrimtozion
Jan 4th 2009, 12:32 AM
I know there will be mixed responses to this question....
My personal opinion is that there's no need for another temple. JESUS became the temple, which was raised in three days.


Here's a link to an article that sums up pretty much everything I would say about this toipic.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell46.html
My thoughts exactly! There will be no third temple, because Jesus is that Third Temple.

Diggindeeper
Jan 4th 2009, 01:32 AM
And he certainly put an end to all blood sacrifices observed in the temple.

Can't you just imagine everyone from all over the world going to a temple, be it in Jerusalem or wherever? First of all, they'd never fit into it...and second, how would we transport all the doves or lambs or whatever we would be required to be sacrificed.

Christ Jesus was the final sacrifice. Remember: When Abraham went with the intention of sacrificing his only son because God told him to do that...Isaac said to him, "Father, I see fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?"

And Abraham said, "My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together." Genesis 22:7-8

That happened on Mt. Moriah, which later came to be called Mt. Calvary!

WOW!

...and He DID provide HIMSELF....(By the way, Abraham ended up NOT sacrificing his only begotten son after all! WOW again!)

Cyberseeker
Jan 4th 2009, 02:19 AM
Whilst agreeing that Jesus IS the temple I am still inclined to think another brick&mortar one might be rebuilt.

My beef with dispensational temple talk is that they tend to glorify it - as if it were a good thing. It is my belief that a temple will be rebuilt but that it will be a snare to Jews and some Christians.

The temple altar of sacrifice is the abominable object IMHO that causes desolation.

RevLogos
Jan 4th 2009, 03:52 AM
Whilst agreeing that Jesus IS the temple I am still inclined to think another brick&mortar one might be rebuilt.

My beef with dispensational temple talk is that they tend to glorify it - as if it were a good thing. It is my belief that a temple will be rebuilt but that it will be a snare to Jews and some Christians.

The temple altar of sacrifice is the abominable object IMHO that causes desolation.

Agreed. Not only can we say Jesus is the temple, but:

Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

Jesus is greater than any brick and mortar temple. Even if the Jews did build a temple, would it be anything more than brick and mortar to God?

markedward
Jan 4th 2009, 04:45 AM
The Jews tried to build a third temple already.

According to both Christian and Pagan sources (including at least one firsthand Pagan source who worked for the emperor), the Roman Emperor of the time worked with the Jews to build a third temple. But the building was put to an end when various events disrupted the building process, including fire erupting from the earth and an earthquake.

Problems with a future temple being built:

1. It simply will not be a temple of God. Christ claimed He was greater than the temple, the epistles claim that we (Christians) are God's temple, and the Revelation claims that in the new creation there is no physical temple because Christ is our temple.

2. If a third temple is built, even if it is admitted not to be a temple of God, it cannot be desecrated because it was never sacred to begin with! The common belief is that a third temple will be rebuilt in order to be desecrated by the antichrist, but this could never happen because it could never be a temple of God to begin with in order to be sacrileged.

3. There's no prophecy about a third temple to be built.

third hero
Jan 4th 2009, 05:00 AM
Whilst agreeing that Jesus IS the temple I am still inclined to think another brick&mortar one might be rebuilt.

My beef with dispensational temple talk is that they tend to glorify it - as if it were a good thing. It is my belief that a temple will be rebuilt but that it will be a snare to Jews and some Christians.

The temple altar of sacrifice is the abominable object IMHO that causes desolation.

You know what, I totally agree her, and I am a premil! And especially the reddened sentence. (What?! An Amil and a Premil in agreement?!:rofl:)

Actually, from what I have read, the temple has to be built. The only reason why it has to be built is so that 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 can be fulfilled. The Man of Sin has to stand in the Holy Place, proclaiming himself to be God. That can not happen unless there is a place that is "suppose" to be holy, like the Holy of Holies that is only found in the temple. The brick and mortar temple will not be built for God's glory, but rather for the glorification of the man of sin.

It is not to be something that we as Christians should be happy about! The moment that 2 Thes 2:3-4 is fulfilled, Zechariah 14:1 kicks in and the event that Lord Jesus warned Judah about in Matthew 24:15-22 ends up being fulfilled. Followed by the Great Tribulation immediately thereafter. Granted, the Lord comes about 3.5 years afterward, but the greatest period of human suffering ever will commence, once the man of sin enters the Holy of Holies in the rebuilt brick and mortar temple.

markedward
Jan 4th 2009, 05:08 AM
The only reason why it has to be built is so that 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 can be fulfilled.What about verse 7, in which Paul states that the "mystery of lawlessness" was "already at work" at the time he was writing it?

You can't quote Paul's statement that the "man of lawlessness" was going to stand in the temple and claim that he was god and omit the part where Paul says that the "mystery of lawlessness" was "already at work" at that very moment he was writing.

third hero
Jan 4th 2009, 05:17 AM
What about verse 7, in which Paul states that the "mystery of lawlessness" was "already at work" at the time he was writing it?

You can't quote Paul's statement that the "man of lawlessness" was going to stand in the temple and claim that he was god and omit the part where Paul says that the "mystery of lawlessness" was "already at work" at that very moment he was writing.

The mystery of lawlesness has been in operation since the fall of man. That has never changed. The "Mystery" will be revealed when the man of Sin is revealed, for the man of sin is the mystery of lawlessness, hence the reason why Paul mentioned it in the same paragraph that he mentions the man of sin sitting in the Holy Place, declaring himself to be God.

I am sorry if I didn't mention the "mystery of lawlessness", but I implied it, as anyone who has read 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 would realize. I thought it would be a "no-brainer". But thank you anyway for the correction.:D

markedward
Jan 4th 2009, 05:21 AM
The mystery of lawlesness has been in operation since the fall of man.In that case, why did Paul mention it as a currently operative thing, instead of claiming it was in power since the fall of man? It was so easy for you to say, why didn't Paul say it just as easily unless he meant that the lawlessness that he referred to was a contemporary problem as opposed to one that had been around for a long time?

third hero
Jan 4th 2009, 05:29 AM
In that case, why did Paul mention it as a currently operative thing, instead of claiming it was in power since the fall of man? It was so easy for you to say, why didn't Paul say it just as easily unless he meant that the lawlessness that he referred to was a contemporary problem as opposed to one that had been around for a long time?

You know, I do not believe that Paul had to say that. He didn't have to be that concise, because anyone who has any knowledge of the Bible would know that the mystery of iniquity has been in operation since the temptation of Adam and Eve in Eden. Why should Paul have to say that?

Markedward, you are aware that the mystery of iniquity has been in operation since the fall of man. You know of Nimrod's apostacy, of the wickedness of the people before the flood, the iniquity of the nations from the first dispersion onward (dispersion from the Tower of Babel). Does this have to be stated in order for us to know the depths of the mystery of iniquity?

I still hold to the thought that the 3rd temple has to be rebuilt in order for the mystery of iniquity to be revealed once and for all, as the Man of Sin is the mystery of iniquity, and the spirit of the Antichrist is the agent at work that brings him about. That is what I believe is what Paul was talking about in 2 Thesalonians 2:3-8.

markedward
Jan 4th 2009, 05:32 AM
You know of Nimrod's apostacyOff-topic, but, nothing in canon Scripture says that Nimrod was an apostate.

On-topic, we'll just have to disagree.

third hero
Jan 4th 2009, 05:34 AM
Off-topic, but, nothing in canon Scripture says that Nimrod was an apostate.

On-topic, we'll just have to disagree.

That would definitely derail the thread, and I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on the nimrod thing.

Cyberseeker
Jan 4th 2009, 06:15 AM
You know what, I totally agree her, and I am a premil! And especially the reddened sentence. (What?! An Amil and a Premil in agreement?!:rofl:)


Well, giz a rep you miserable blighter. ;) No one reps me anymore. Im beginning to get an inferiority complex. :cry:

third hero
Jan 4th 2009, 06:35 AM
Well, giz a rep you miserable blighter. ;) No one reps me anymore. Im beginning to get an inferiority complex. :cry:
WHA?! NO REPS? We got ta do somethin bout dat! ;)

Joyfulparousia
Jan 19th 2009, 02:20 PM
Do the Jews HAVE to rebuild the temple to fulfill prophecy?

Yes


If so, do you think it will happen before the tribulation?

Yes


Does it have to be in the exact same spot as the Dome of the Rock???

Yes. It will be in the same place. It is interesting to note that though Islam claims the "temple site" in Jerusalem their 3rd holiest place, Jerusalem is not once mentioned in the Koran. The time is coming when Islam will give up the location of the original temple (see Dan 9:27, 2 Thess 2 - note mention/allusion of a third temple).

third hero
Jan 22nd 2009, 04:01 AM
Yes. It will be in the same place. It is interesting to note that though Islam claims the "temple site" in Jerusalem their 3rd holiest place, Jerusalem is not once mentioned in the Koran. The time is coming when Islam will give up the location of the original temple (see Dan 9:27, 2 Thess 2 - note mention/allusion of a third temple).

Actually, your answer to the last question is current being debated. There is an archeologist who has discovered that the actual site of the "Holy of Holies" may lie south of the Dome. Not only that, but the "Dome" may now be laying in the exact spot of the original OUTER COURT, which would seriously blow my mind if this is true, because Revelation 11:1-2 will come into play here if this archeologist is right. (for more information, use your browser and look up Tuvia Sagiv, who is the archeologist who has stirred up the debate by introducing the "Southern Conjecture", the idea that the Holy of Holies was located south of the traditional location).

If the Sanhedrin and the Muslim clerics agree with the science behind the discovery, this could pave the way for the Temple to be rebuilt, without an outer court, fulfilling Revelation 11:1-2. We'll just have to wait and see.

Joyfulparousia
Jan 23rd 2009, 07:50 PM
If the Sanhedrin and the Muslim clerics agree with the science behind the discovery, this could pave the way for the Temple to be rebuilt, without an outer court, fulfilling Revelation 11:1-2. We'll just have to wait and see.

John must have been surprised when he saw the temple while writing Rev. 11 some 20 years after the temple was destroyed. Although...he probably had the book of Daniel and Paul's 2 Thess 2 letter...

imon32red
Jan 24th 2009, 12:09 AM
Do the Jews HAVE to rebuild the temple to fulfill prophecy? If so, do you think it will happen before the tribulation? Does it have to be in the exact same spot as the Dome of the Rock???


The Jews will rebuild the temple.

The question is "will they be Jewish by race or religion?"

possumliving
Jan 24th 2009, 12:35 AM
The Jews will rebuild the temple.

The question is "will they be Jewish by race or religion?"

That's a good question! Because there is a great movement of apostasy going through Israel and many Jewish settlements where they are being drawn into mysticism via the Kaballah and new age teachers.

The Rabbi's have banned the kaballah as something that only a few are allowed to read because it is so dangerous.

Check out the Rainbow Swastika, do a google and you can read it for free. It will help put a lot of peices into the puzzle.

Steph

imon32red
Jan 24th 2009, 01:58 AM
That's a good question! Because there is a great movement of apostasy going through Israel and many Jewish settlements where they are being drawn into mysticism via the Kaballah and new age teachers.

The Rabbi's have banned the kaballah as something that only a few are allowed to read because it is so dangerous.

Check out the Rainbow Swastika, do a google and you can read it for free. It will help put a lot of peices into the puzzle.

Steph

Very interesting.

The Jewish religion rejected Christ 2000 years ago and they still do reject him as THE Christ. To prove their point they crucified him. Those today that do give him recognition, commend him as a great teacher. In order to build a Temple to the Most High God you would have to accept Christ as the redeemer of the world. Otherwise it would just be a building, no matter what it looked like or what you called it.

In other words what i am getting at is the Jews that rebuild the Temple will only be Jews in the sense of race, not religion. Another way of saying it could be that the Jews that rebuild the temple will be "Christians" because they will be building the Temple to God the Father whose Son made it possible for all mankind to be redeemed. You cannot believe in one without the other.

danield
Jan 24th 2009, 04:07 AM
I would not doubt that someone might just fly a rocket from the Hamas side to conveniently strike the existing Mosque, and it will pave the way for a new temple to be built. Or even better yet, it is only a matter of time before the Jewish people elect a leader who is not concerned with the Muslim faith, and put’s the rebuilding of the temple at the forefront of his agenda. I feel certain that it will either cause a war or is part of an expanding war in that region. They have been fighting for millenniums so there is nothing to think that they will stop any time soon. The only difference being that they have nukes to fight with now.

Now you have arguments about what the bible predicts will happen when in reality our existing situation is this.

1. The Muslims and Jews hate one another!
2. They both have Nukes. (I think it is a foregone conclusion that Iran will attain them soon.)
3. The Temple site is a hot topic for both sides.
4. The entire region contains the majority of the world’s supply of oil.
5. The Muslim leadership is extremely hostile in nature.

Even if we did not have the Bible’s guidance on what is to come (I know some believe that it all already happened) chances are the Temple will be rebuilt. And chances are that the Muslims and Jews will have a major conflict that will draw other countries into the conflict to maintain their interest in the world’s oil supply.

So my answer to the questions is yes the Jews will rebuild the Temple in time. I think it will either be close to the tribulation or in it because it is sure to set off a chain of events that will upset that region. I think the exact location is yet to be determined but I am sure it will encompass the existing wall. And for all those who doubt that the tribulation can not come true in our age, just look at the key components in that region primed and waiting for a spark to set off a chain of events exactly laid out by Revelation.

quiet dove
Jan 24th 2009, 04:16 AM
I would not doubt that someone might just fly a rocket from the Hamas side to conveniently strike the existing Masque, and it will pave the way for a new temple to be built.

This statement made me have a thought (which we all know is risky), but....IF, if, Ezekiel's gog and magog happens prior to the last, like happens before the GT instead of at the last (Revelation's Gog/Magog), God could easily whack the Mosque out of the way during the attack.

Like I said, just a thought.

danield
Jan 24th 2009, 05:17 AM
This statement made me have a thought (which we all know is risky), but....IF, if, Ezekiel's gog and magog happens prior to the last, like happens before the GT instead of at the last (Revelation's Gog/Magog), God could easily whack the Mosque out of the way during the attack.

Like I said, just a thought.

I agree QD, and with today’s firepower, it would just take an itchy trigger finger from a single fighter plane pilot to do exactly what you mentioned. :hmm:

third hero
Jan 24th 2009, 06:32 AM
I would not doubt that someone might just fly a rocket from the Hamas side to conveniently strike the existing Mosque, and it will pave the way for a new temple to be built. Or even better yet, it is only a matter of time before the Jewish people elect a leader who is not concerned with the Muslim faith, and put’s the rebuilding of the temple at the forefront of his agenda. I feel certain that it will either cause a war or is part of an expanding war in that region. They have been fighting for millenniums so there is nothing to think that they will stop any time soon. The only difference being that they have nukes to fight with now.

One word: Natenyahu. He's trying to ascend into the position of Prime Minister again, and this time, he is actively showing his contempt for Islam. He also expressed his desire to rebuild the temple. He's also gaining a LOT of support in political cirles both in Israel, and in the USA. Watch out for him, because he may fulfill your "prophecy" here Danield.

third hero
Jan 24th 2009, 06:36 AM
This statement made me have a thought (which we all know is risky), but....IF, if, Ezekiel's gog and magog happens prior to the last, like happens before the GT instead of at the last (Revelation's Gog/Magog), God could easily whack the Mosque out of the way during the attack.

Like I said, just a thought.

I think I am wearing you down, QD. Here is why.

What I believe is this, Israel will be attacked, and the Gog/Magog alliance is going to happen before the Great Tribulation. It is also my belief that the attack on Jerusalem is what will trigger the Great Tribulation...

Yup, you are succumbing to the post-side of the force, QD. Now, give in to your logic, and join me. I... am your.... Father's brother''s next-door-neighbor:lol:!

danield
Jan 24th 2009, 06:40 AM
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One word: Natenyahu. He's trying to ascend into the position of Prime Minister again, and this time, he is actively showing his contempt for Islam. He also expressed his desire to rebuild the temple. He's also gaining a LOT of support in political cirles both in Israel, and in the USA. Watch out for him, because he may fulfill your "prophecy" here Danield.

I have not heard about Natenyahu TH. but what I said in not prophecy, it is really just the obvious… Have a great weekend!

third hero
Jan 24th 2009, 06:43 AM
I have not heard about Natenyahu TH. but what I said in not prophecy, it is really just the obvious… Have a great weekend!
That's why I had prophecy in qoutes. I know that you did not write that to be a prophecy, but if something that you said ends up happening, then what would you call it then?

Anyway, I got the point, and God bless you, Danield.

Unfortunately, I have to go back to work, so I'll be back later.

possumliving
Jan 24th 2009, 07:32 AM
Very interesting.

The Jewish religion rejected Christ 2000 years ago and they still do reject him as THE Christ. To prove their point they crucified him. Those today that do give him recognition, commend him as a great teacher. In order to build a Temple to the Most High God you would have to accept Christ as the redeemer of the world. Otherwise it would just be a building, no matter what it looked like or what you called it.

In other words what i am getting at is the Jews that rebuild the Temple will only be Jews in the sense of race, not religion. Another way of saying it could be that the Jews that rebuild the temple will be "Christians" because they will be building the Temple to God the Father whose Son made it possible for all mankind to be redeemed. You cannot believe in one without the other.

I don't follow your reasoning on this. In order to build the temple you would have to deny that Jesus is the Son of God.

If you are a Christian then you aren't going to want to build a temple. Only if you are still waiting on Messiah to return would you want to build a temple.

Steph

Joyfulparousia
Jan 24th 2009, 11:38 AM
The Jews will rebuild the temple.

The question is "will they be Jewish by race or religion?"


Mostly likely ultra-orthodox Jews will spearhead the building with finance and political backing of the Antichrist. I think the event will be seen as a huge victory for the Jewish people as a whole, therefore persuading many more Jews to jump on board who were initially hesitant. This event of course is both terrible for Jews all throughout the world and is a sign that Antichrist will seize power a mere 3 1/2 years later. Isaiah calls it a "covenant with death".

895rider
Jan 25th 2009, 03:08 AM
I also believe that another temple will be rebuilt, a necessary pre-condition for the anti-christ to stop the making of sacrifices half way through the tribulation period. Whether this third temple is built on the site of the dome of the rock or next to it I'm not sure.

As things are right now I believe the muslims control all the land around the dome of the rock and above the wailing wall. Why Israel returned control to them after the 1967 war I don't know. Anyways, I've always kind of figured that there would be some sort of local war where Israel is attacked by her neighbors during which the dome of the rock might be destroyed or perhaps the Israeli's are so fed up with their neighbors that Israel takes control of the mount again which ultimately leads to a third temple being built.

Under normal relations I would think that the muslims would be vehemently against the jews rebuilding a temple even if it was next to the dome of the rock and not in place of it. But, on the other hand it's possible with the AC being on earth that he could facilitate the rebuilding of the third temple without a war where the jews reclaim the temple mount. What I mean is that when it is time for the AC to appear the third temple needs to go up whether through act of war or in peace.

I remember listening to a tv preacher years ago, it might have been John Hagee, who quoted scripture, I think it was revelations, which said that "the AC will make craft prosper" also interpreted that he will make the economy well again. I look around at the carnage that is happening all over the world is a financial mess and it sure looks like another great depression is just getting started. I've also heard that preparation for a third temple are already being made. Is it possible to put up a third temple in a couple of years time? maybe. It's been over 40 years since the jews captured Jerusalem. I wonder how much longer it will be before the building of the third temple and the start of the seven year tribulation.

Joyfulparousia
Jan 25th 2009, 11:36 AM
I remember listening to a tv preacher years ago, it might have been John Hagee, who quoted scripture, I think it was revelations, which said that "the AC will make craft prosper" also interpreted that he will make the economy well again.

It's Daniel 8:25

I don't mean to wet Hagee's flame but the word mentioned means "deception" not "commerce".

pinky
Jan 27th 2009, 10:37 AM
An interesting account of an attempt to rebuild the temple under the orders of Julian the apostate...



Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII

Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.

Joyfulparousia
Jan 27th 2009, 02:26 PM
An interesting account of an attempt to rebuild the temple under the orders of Julian the apostate...



Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII

Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.

This is amazing

RevLogos
Jan 27th 2009, 03:55 PM
This is amazing

I read an article in the Jerusalem Post a while back on this. They of course, deny this happened (the miracles, not the attempt). The fires they say, were arson, by Christians...

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1184766044619&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

pinky
Jan 27th 2009, 11:41 PM
The Lord is sovereign and His sacrifice is complete.

May we be in awe of his majesty.......... and thankful for His tender mercy and grace toward us wretched sinners......giving thanks to Him in all things.

In His Name above all names, Jesus Christ,
pinky

billy-brown 2
Feb 13th 2009, 04:32 AM
Do the Jews HAVE to rebuild the temple to fulfill prophecy? If so, do you think it will happen before the tribulation? Does it have to be in the exact same spot as the Dome of the Rock???

There has been at least three worship centers having the presence of YHWH's name on the earth:

A) The tabernacle in the wilderness.

B) Solomon's temple.

C) Zerubbabel's/Herod's Temple. (These are put together because Herod's Temple was an expansion of Zerubbabel's Temple.)

Each of the facilities above had the support of abundant Old Testament prophecy. Of course, all have been destroyed long ago.

We should expect, therefore, that an additional brick-and-mortar physical temple would have abundant prophetic support as well; perhaps Old as well as New Testament verses would be involved.

So, my question is this: can someone find the prophetic passage(s) in the scriptures which tell us specifically that there will be another brick-and-mortar physical temple in our future?

trance750
Mar 10th 2009, 10:55 PM
Do the Jews HAVE to rebuild the temple to fulfill prophecy? If so, do you think it will happen before the tribulation? Does it have to be in the exact same spot as the Dome of the Rock???

I belive so, as the Anti-Christ will sit on the Throne and declare himself to be God (thus marking the halfway point of the Tribulation)

markedward
Mar 11th 2009, 12:04 AM
I belive so, as the Anti-Christ will sit on the Throne and declare himself to be God (thus marking the halfway point of the Tribulation)Three things:

1. Where does Scripture say "the antichrist" will declare himself to be God?

2. Where does Scripture say this person will sit on a throne when he makes the declaration?

3. Where does Scripture say this event would mark the half-way point of the tribulation?

billy-brown 2
Mar 11th 2009, 04:12 AM
Three things:

1. Where does Scripture say "the antichrist" will declare himself to be God?

Is there a scripture that says this?

2. Where does Scripture say this person will sit on a throne when he makes the declaration?

Is there a scripture that says this?

3. Where does Scripture say this event would mark the half-way point of the tribulation?

Is there a scripture that says this?



I'm baffled . . . :hmm:

Is is possible (in passing . . .) that you (or anybody) might have an answer to the question at the bottom of my post as well (three posts ago or so)?

++++++++++++++
There has been at least three worship centers having the presence of YHWH's name on the earth:

A) The tabernacle in the wilderness.

B) Solomon's temple.

C) Zerubbabel's/Herod's Temple. (These are put together because Herod's Temple was an expansion of Zerubbabel's Temple.)

Each of the facilities above had the support of abundant Old Testament prophecy. Of course, all have been destroyed long ago.

We should expect, therefore, that an additional brick-and-mortar physical temple would have abundant prophetic support as well; perhaps Old as well as New Testament verses would be involved.

So, my question is this: can someone find the prophetic passage(s) in the scriptures which tell us specifically that there will be another brick-and-mortar physical temple in our future?
+++++++++++++++++

JesusMySavior
Mar 11th 2009, 05:14 AM
Considering the scripture about the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not, I think that stands for the antichrist standing in the temple. Jews are awaiting their Christ but what they are bringing in is not Christ.

the temple being rebuilt is just one more step to Christ's return. :)

Grace Alone
Oct 24th 2013, 12:26 PM
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.