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View Full Version : What are the two views (rapture related)



InSchoolStudy
Jan 5th 2009, 01:48 AM
I dont really know about the post-trib ( I think ) view but I was pretty much aware of the rapture Pre-Trib view.

So some believe that the rapture will take us to Heaven then the others stay on earth for the 7 years of the Anti-Christ?

Then the others think that we wont be raptured and just go straight into those 7 years?

what happens at the end of the 7 years?

also in some other threads I hear others say oh well this looks like the 70th week of daniel. What do they mean about this?

markedward
Jan 5th 2009, 01:54 AM
There's more than two views, you know?

InSchoolStudy
Jan 5th 2009, 01:56 AM
Actually I didnt know.

Amos_with_goats
Jan 5th 2009, 02:12 AM
Great question. :pp

There are many variations on these views. Hopefully we do not hold to our views out of loyalty, but rather be submitted to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I once believed that the Lord would return before the tribulation and 'rapture' the Church. I even taught this view in sunday school. Then I had a pastor (in a stated pre-trib church) who encouraged everyone to look at the scripture for themselves.

I did, and was surprised to find that scripture did not support my prior belief. There is no place in scripture where the Lord says, or is said to return twice.... nor does it say that suffering is apart from the Lord's will. It does say we are spared from wrath, but that is different from the tribulation.

We know there are 'saints murdered in the tribulation' so we know there are believers alive in that time. We know that the role of the Church is to glorify the Lord, and lift Him up so that men might be drawn to Him... it would make no sense to remove the Church from the Tribulation.

Pre-trib allows one to read of the coming events in Revalation and to think about how sad it is for THOSE people. The saints in China know that tribulation is not a curse, but rather the fire the Lord uses to purify the Church.

We know that the deciever seeks to cause confusion about the Lord's return. We read in 2 Thes 2 where Paul confronts error produced when mens doctrine eclipsed what he was teaching. The modern pre-trib doctrine is relitively new, if you research 'John Darby' you will find some of the reason for this popular doctrines spread.

Our hope is not to be spared (unless by death) but to recieve the Lord's grace to endure.... kind of like we are tought in the rest of scripture.

Blessings to you as you seek your own understanding of this. :hug:

markedward
Jan 5th 2009, 02:28 AM
Actually I didnt know.Well, I was just checking.

"End-times" prophecy is much more complicated than people think.

First, there's the four main types of views:


Futurism
Historicism
Preterism
Idealism

You're probably most familiar with (or only familiar with) Futurism.

There's also a lot of other types of views, that fit into the above four. For example...


Pre-tribulational rapture.
Mid-tribulational rapture.
Post-tribulational rapture.
Pre-wrath rapture.
No "rapture".

InSchoolStudy
Jan 5th 2009, 02:32 AM
So aside from all these views, what WILL happen?

okay maybe we will have a rapture, but maybe not. but what WILL happen? etc Christians ascending to heaven.

Amos_with_goats
Jan 5th 2009, 02:58 AM
So many scriptures, you will do well to seek the matter for yourself in the word. I would suggest you read Matt 24, here are just a couple to answer your question;



what WILL happen?
1 Corinthians 15:51-2 (King James Version)


Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



1 Thessalonians 4 (King James Version)

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18


But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

yaza
Jan 5th 2009, 03:46 AM
So many scriptures, you will do well to seek the matter for yourself in the word. I would suggest you read Matt 24, here are just a couple to answer your question;



1 Corinthians 15:51-2 (King James Version)


Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



1 Thessalonians 4 (King James Version)

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18


But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
yes indeed this is what is going to happen the main question is when 2 thes 2:3 let no one decieve you in any way , for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first , and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction. this verse says that jesus wont come back until these things happen cut and dry. then you could study other verses like 2 thes 1:7 to prove that it happens on the same day as the wicked are punished. please stay away from commentaries and radio preachers as this will only confuse you, the spirit will give you all the answers. if the theory does not match up with scripture PERFECTLY then you need to study more just remember jesus is on the throne and is ruling over the whole earth right now. god bless

InSchoolStudy
Jan 5th 2009, 05:16 AM
Okay thanks everyone.

That verse almost makes it sound as if, Christians who have died havent risen to heaven yet, but all alive and dead Christians will or soemthing.

JesusMySavior
Jan 5th 2009, 06:25 AM
Okay thanks everyone.

That verse almost makes it sound as if, Christians who have died havent risen to heaven yet, but all alive and dead Christians will or soemthing.


But yet Paul also says in Philippians 1:23 that to depart from this earth is to be with Christ and in 1:21 to live is Christ and to die is gain.

I believe that our spirits go to be with Christ but our bodies will be resurrected when He comes back and our spirits will join with our incorruptible bodies (once corrupt, now incorrupt to be like His glorious body Hallelujah!) to be complete with our Savior, Jesus. Amen!

InSchoolStudy
Jan 5th 2009, 07:53 AM
I wanted to ask some other questions in this thread instead of making more.

I am a new Christian and I dont know a lot about the Rapture or the tribulation/second advent. So I have been reading the Bible, and various other books and I think I am understanding this more.

this might be an opinion but after reading the verses, then reading scholars studys on them, I have personally come to the conclusion that I will be Raptured or ressurected and raised to heaven... anyways am i understanding this?

we have the church ( right now, the first coming of Christ ) then we are raptured and the bodies of the dead believers are ressurected and raised. Thent he 7 years of tribulation and chaos. Then the second advent, and then the millenium followed by eternity.

What I dont understand is, we are raptured, but where do we go? if the second advent isnt till after the 7 years of tribulation, where do we go? then the second coming of Christ we are all raised to heaven? I actually dont even really know what the millenium is but I have read and heard about it. then of course eternity..

I was also wondering, when we die physically, do we meet Christ? or where does our spirit go? because from what I have read it sounds like the dead will be raised and we will be raptured ( or who ever is alive at the time ) and that is when we will first see Jesus.

ah as you can see I have a lot of questions, I am actually glad that I have so many questions, two years ago I was just another one of those 'believers' brought up in a Christian home and then that one person comes a long and just made a huge impact on my life.

thanks for your answers



But yet Paul also says in Philippians 1:23 that to depart from this earth is to be with Christ and in 1:21 to live is Christ and to die is gain.

I believe that our spirits go to be with Christ but our bodies will be resurrected when He comes back and our spirits will join with our incorruptible bodies (once corrupt, now incorrupt to be like His glorious body Hallelujah!) to be complete with our Savior, Jesus. Amen!

Oh, sorry I wrote this post before reading this, if I understand what your saying, our spirits are with Christ but not our bodys until the rapture? or the second advent?

Alyssa S
Jan 5th 2009, 06:44 PM
yes indeed this is what is going to happen the main question is when 2 thes 2:3 let no one decieve you in any way , for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first , and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction. this verse says that jesus wont come back until these things happen cut and dry. then you could study other verses like 2 thes 1:7 to prove that it happens on the same day as the wicked are punished. please stay away from commentaries and radio preachers as this will only confuse you, the spirit will give you all the answers. if the theory does not match up with scripture PERFECTLY then you need to study more just remember jesus is on the throne and is ruling over the whole earth right now. god bless

Amen to the above... BOLDED and underlined!!! Let the Scriptures and Holy Spirit speak to you. You are on the right track! ;)

God bless!
Alyssa

third hero
Jan 5th 2009, 08:15 PM
I wanted to ask some other questions in this thread instead of making more.

I am a new Christian and I dont know a lot about the Rapture or the tribulation/second advent. So I have been reading the Bible, and various other books and I think I am understanding this more.

this might be an opinion but after reading the verses, then reading scholars studys on them, I have personally come to the conclusion that I will be Raptured or ressurected and raised to heaven... anyways am i understanding this?

we have the church ( right now, the first coming of Christ ) then we are raptured and the bodies of the dead believers are ressurected and raised. Thent he 7 years of tribulation and chaos. Then the second advent, and then the millenium followed by eternity.

What I dont understand is, we are raptured, but where do we go? if the second advent isnt till after the 7 years of tribulation, where do we go? then the second coming of Christ we are all raised to heaven? I actually dont even really know what the millenium is but I have read and heard about it. then of course eternity..

I was also wondering, when we die physically, do we meet Christ? or where does our spirit go? because from what I have read it sounds like the dead will be raised and we will be raptured ( or who ever is alive at the time ) and that is when we will first see Jesus.

ah as you can see I have a lot of questions, I am actually glad that I have so many questions, two years ago I was just another one of those 'believers' brought up in a Christian home and then that one person comes a long and just made a huge impact on my life.

thanks for your answers



Oh, sorry I wrote this post before reading this, if I understand what your saying, our spirits are with Christ but not our bodys until the rapture? or the second advent?

You ask a loaded question, inschoolstudy. Like Markedward wrote, there are many ideals and perspectives that everyone on this board has taken, ranging from pre-trib premillennialism, as you are learning now, post-trib premillennialism, as I believe, post-trib amillennialism, as markedward believes, and many, many others. I really wish that there is a shortcut so that you would know what to believe. Unfortunately, there isn't.

The best advice that I can give you is to read the Gospels first, and empty yourself of everything that others have said concerning the end times. Lord Jesus will guide you, if you let Him. Read the passages, and pray while reading, and let the Lord answer your questions.

I can give you answers, but until you get them from God, my answers will be meaningless. I believe that markedward understands this as well, which is why he is not giving you an answer, much like myself. It will be time consuming. I'm sorry, but the answer is not going to be easy to find.

I will give you one hint. Everything in the New Testament cernters around the Gospels. All of Paul's teachings, the epistles from James, Peter and John, Jude's epistle and the book of Revelation, all of them are based on Lord Jesus's words, and they are all in agreement, with no contradictions.

Also, the important thing is that we be ready fro the Lord's return, whenever that happens. That means that no matter what you believe, you have to know what God expects from you. Read the Gospels, and see what Lord Jesus actually said. This will lead youto the answer that you seek.