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divaD
Jan 6th 2009, 03:14 PM
Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



How should we interpret this verse? Should we interpret it spiritually, as in spiritual Jews, or literally, as in literal Jews?

Also, I was looking at a cpl of passages in the OT, but I'm unsure if either is related. Probably not, but here they be. Isaiah 49:23 Isaiah 60:14

Emanate
Jan 6th 2009, 03:19 PM
How should we interpret this verse? Should we interpret it spiritually, as in spiritual Jews, or literally, as in literal Jews?


Well, since there is no such thing as a spiritual Jew being anything but a physical Jew.....

Partaker of Christ
Jan 6th 2009, 03:24 PM
Hi DivaD

Glad you asked this question, as I was pondering this same passage myself, just last night.

Who are those who are of the synagogue of Satan?

Emanate
Jan 6th 2009, 03:28 PM
Hi DivaD

Glad you asked this question, as I was pondering this same passage myself, just last night.

Who are those who are of the synagogue of Satan?


Also keeping in mind, according to scripture, believers continued in the synagogues (Jew and Greek) during the NT. This is a good question. I wonder the structure of this in Greek. was it referring to the synagogue of the adversary or to the synagogues being adversarial with one another?

divaD
Jan 6th 2009, 03:32 PM
Well, since there is no such thing as a spiritual Jew being anything but a physical Jew.....


Perhaps I should explain my understanding of what a spiritual Jew would be. For example, according to some interpretations I have observed by others, a Gentile Christian would be a spiritual Jew. But anyway, that's what I mean by spiritual Jew.

Emanate
Jan 6th 2009, 03:46 PM
Perhaps I should explain my understanding of what a spiritual Jew would be. For example, according to some interpretations I have observed by others, a Gentile Christian would be a spiritual Jew. But anyway, that's what I mean by spiritual Jew.


I understand that, but the audience in Romans 2 is Jews, not Gentiles. The good thing is there is no need for Gentiles to become Jews, spiritual or otherwise. As far as the verse you mention, I cannot say. But you have certainly given me something to search out.

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 6th 2009, 06:49 PM
Well, since there is no such thing as a spiritual Jew being anything but a physical Jew.....


For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the Spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

What does this passage state? does it say something about a True Jew? as one who is Circumcised in the Heart thru the Holy Ghost... and not the Letter of the Law......... and what of those Gentiles who have been Born Again.. inherited the Promises of God.. their hearts circumcised by the Same Spirit as the 'Jew' who has been Born Again... are the Gentiles left out of this? that was one of the Mysteries that Paul revealed.. that the Gentiles were ALSO able to obtain the Promises of God thru Jesus the Christ.. being born Again from above.. this the work of God Himself.. having their hearts circumcised by the Work of the Holy Ghost and not the Letter of the Law...

interesting piece of Scripture......

Emanate
Jan 6th 2009, 07:17 PM
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the Spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

What does this passage state? does it say something about a True Jew? as one who is Circumcised in the Heart thru the Holy Ghost... and not the Letter of the Law......... and what of those Gentiles who have been Born Again.. inherited the Promises of God.. their hearts circumcised by the Same Spirit as the 'Jew' who has been Born Again... are the Gentiles left out of this? that was one of the Mysteries that Paul revealed.. that the Gentiles were ALSO able to obtain the Promises of God thru Jesus the Christ.. being born Again from above.. this the work of God Himself.. having their hearts circumcised by the Work of the Holy Ghost and not the Letter of the Law...

interesting piece of Scripture......

This is true, but it does not make Gentiles into spiritual jews, as being a jew is not a requirement to inherit the promises.

BroRog
Jan 6th 2009, 07:58 PM
Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



How should we interpret this verse? Should we interpret it spiritually, as in spiritual Jews, or literally, as in literal Jews?

Also, I was looking at a cpl of passages in the OT, but I'm unsure if either is related. Probably not, but here they be. Isaiah 49:23 Isaiah 60:14

To really understand this, it would be helpful to have some background information concerning what was going on at the time. In lieu of this, we can glean hints from the text.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it:

Here Jesus encourages his readers with a metaphorical picture of an open door. Here the emphasis is on the fact that Jesus has the key that unlocks the door; the door has been unlocked; And the door remains open.

As social creatures we find many ways to keep out those with whom we disagree, and to allow in those whom we like. The door keepers are the self-appointed guardians of who is "IN" and who is "OUT" depending on some arbitrary criteria. Some group of people did not consider these believers in Jesus to be worthy of company.

Apparently, the believers in Philadelphia were being ostracized for some artificial reason.

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Jesus is holding the door open for those who have not denied his name, which is to say, they have not denied that Jesus is the Christ, the expected one, the coming king of Israel.

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

In this we understand that the "IN" crowd attends synagogue. Since the name "Satan" means adversary, its possible that a "synagogue of Satan" is an adversarial place which suffers from "controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law," of which Paul warns Titus in his letter to him. It's possible that the believers of Philadelphia were being put out of the synagogue (the door closing behind them) over disputes about whether Jesus (or someone else) was the authentic Christ.

By contrast, the gate keepers of the synagogue kept out the Philadelphian believers, Jesus is going to give these same believers a place in his temple and cause these gate keepers to fall at their feet. In other words, the roles will be reversed.

Toymom
Jan 6th 2009, 08:15 PM
I think that verse referred to those who at that time were physically Jewish, but cared more for their religion than for God Himself. In today's world, there are those type of people found in other religions as well -groups that are or have been persecuting those who genuinely seek and follow the Lord in spirit and life, while still considering that they are defending the interests of God. The RCC did this throughout history and many religious groups persecute others in the name of their religion and they are actually persecuting the true believers.