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markdrums
Jan 7th 2009, 06:11 PM
After reading a "certain post" by one of my friends in another section, It gave me an idea. What if we looked at symbolism in numbers in scripture? But ESPECIALLY, this number:

The Number 1000

(Firstly, let's look at examples of the ones we’re most familiar with)

One - Beginning
Two - Witness, separation
Three - The Godhead
Four - Earth, Creation, world
Five - Grace, Cross atonement, life
Six - Man, beast, Satan
Seven - Perfection, completeness
Eight - New beginning
Twelve - Divine government, apostolic fullness
Twenty Four - Priestly courses; governmental perfection
Forty - Probation, testing closing in victory and judgment
Six Hundred Sixty Six – Beast / Antichrist, Satan, the damned

BUT…. What about the number 1000?

We’ve all heard "….one day with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day...."
So, what does that mean? What’s the significance with the number 1000?

Let’s see a couple examples where 1000 is used in scripture & see if we can get an idea of the [I]symbolic meaning.

Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he [is] God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Does that mean that God stops showing mercy, and doesn’t keep his promise to generation 1001? Of course not.

Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest [is] mine, [and] the cattle upon a thousand hills.
Does it mean God does NOT own the cattle on the 1001st hill? Again, NO. That’s not accurate at all.

If we’re paying attention, we’ll realize that ONE THOUSAND represents an Indefinite amount. (Not a literal one.) A number that we as people, may not know for certain, but GOD knows. So whatever the ACTUAL amount is, it’s determined by God; and he expresses it to us as “a Thousand.”

So, going back to the example of “a day is a thousand years….”
If we folow the same symbolic meaning as shown above, we can better understand that God is telling us he is OUTSIDE OF TIME.
We might say that a thousand years have passed, (in regards to some particular event…) but it hasn’t been 1000 years to God. To HIM, it’s all the same. He is the beginning AND the end.

And what about the “Thousand years” in Revelation?
Rev 20:1-7

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

From here I’ll leave it up to you.
Whether or not you decide to try using this application in your scriptural studies is entirely your choice.
But one last thing – How would you now view the Creation Account in Genesis? Was it Six literal days? OR?.............

;)


Hope you enjoyed!
And sorry I repeated the number 1000 a "thousand times".
:lol:

moonglow
Jan 7th 2009, 06:45 PM
After reading a "certain post" by one of my friends in another section, It gave me an idea. What if we looked at symbolism in numbers in scripture? But ESPECIALLY, this number:

The Number 1000

(Firstly, let's look at examples of the ones we’re most familiar with)

One - Beginning
Two - Witness, separation
Three - The Godhead
Four - Earth, Creation, world
Five - Grace, Cross atonement, life
Six - Man, beast, Satan
Seven - Perfection, completeness
Eight - New beginning
Twelve - Divine government, apostolic fullness
Twenty Four - Priestly courses; governmental perfection
Forty - Probation, testing closing in victory and judgment
Six Hundred Sixty Six – Beast / Antichrist, Satan, the damned

BUT…. What about the number 1000?

We’ve all heard "….one day with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day...."
So, what does that mean? What’s the significance with the number 1000?

Let’s see a couple examples where 1000 is used in scripture & see if we can get an idea of the [I]symbolic meaning.

Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he [is] God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Does that mean that God stops showing mercy, and doesn’t keep his promise to generation 1001? Of course not.

Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest [is] mine, [and] the cattle upon a thousand hills.
Does it mean God does NOT own the cattle on the 1001st hill? Again, NO. That’s not accurate at all.

If we’re paying attention, we’ll realize that ONE THOUSAND represents an Indefinite amount. (Not a literal one.) A number that we as people, may not know for certain, but GOD knows. So whatever the ACTUAL amount is, it’s determined by God; and he expresses it to us as “a Thousand.”

So, going back to the example of “a day is a thousand years….”
If we folow the same symbolic meaning as shown above, we can better understand that God is telling us he is OUTSIDE OF TIME.
We might say that a thousand years have passed, (in regards to some particular event…) but it hasn’t been 1000 years to God. To HIM, it’s all the same. He is the beginning AND the end.

And what about the “Thousand years” in Revelation?
Rev 20:1-7

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

From here I’ll leave it up to you.
Whether or not you decide to try using this application in your scriptural studies is entirely your choice.
But one last thing – How would you now view the Creation Account in Genesis? Was it Six literal days? OR?.............

;)


Hope you enjoyed!
And sorry I repeated the number 1000 a "thousand times".
:lol:

Ohhhhh...get out the whips and chains for the flogging to commence....

You realize you just opened a can of worms here right? :rolleyes:

I have to leave in a minute but will return and see how you are surviving...:lol:


God bless

RogerW
Jan 7th 2009, 06:47 PM
After reading a "certain post" by one of my friends in another section, It gave me an idea. What if we looked at symbolism in numbers in scripture? But ESPECIALLY, this number:

The Number 1000

(Firstly, let's look at examples of the ones we’re most familiar with)

One - Beginning
Two - Witness, separation
Three - The Godhead
Four - Earth, Creation, world
Five - Grace, Cross atonement, life
Six - Man, beast, Satan
Seven - Perfection, completeness
Eight - New beginning
Twelve - Divine government, apostolic fullness
Twenty Four - Priestly courses; governmental perfection
Forty - Probation, testing closing in victory and judgment
Six Hundred Sixty Six – Beast / Antichrist, Satan, the damned

BUT…. What about the number 1000?

We’ve all heard "….one day with the Lord as a thousandyears, and a thousandyears as one day...."
So, what does that mean? What’s the significance with the number 1000?

Let’s see a couple examples where 1000 is used in scripture & see if we can get an idea of the symbolic meaning.

Deu 7:9 [I]Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he [is] God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Does that mean that God stops showing mercy, and doesn’t keep his promise to generation 1001? Of course not.

Psa 50:10For every beast of the forest [is] mine, [and] the cattle upon a thousand hills.
Does it mean God does NOT own the cattle on the 1001st hill? Again, NO. That’s not accurate at all.

If we’re paying attention, we’ll realize that ONE THOUSAND represents an Indefinite amount. (Not a literal one.) A number that we as people, may not know for certain, but GOD knows. So whatever the ACTUAL amount is, it’s determined by God; and he expresses it to us as “a Thousand.”

So, going back to the example of “a day is a thousand years….”
If we folow the same symbolic meaning as shown above, we can better understand that God is telling us he is OUTSIDE OF TIME.
We might say that a thousand years have passed, (in regards to some particular event…) but it hasn’t been 1000 years to God. To HIM, it’s all the same. He is the beginning AND the end.

And what about the “Thousand years” in Revelation?
Rev 20:1-7

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

From here I’ll leave it up to you.
Whether or not you decide to try using this application in your scriptural studies is entirely your choice.
But one last thing – How would you now view the Creation Account in Genesis? Was it Six literal days? OR?.............

;)


Hope you enjoyed!
And sorry I repeated the number 1000 a "thousand times".
:lol:

Greetings Mark,

I think you have already shown that one thousand years symbolizes the fullness or completion of TIME...or this age. When TIME is no more the thousand YEARS (years symbolizing time) will be done, and all that is left after time is no more is eternity. We are NOW living in the thousand years, or another way of saying it, we are NOW living in time...when the thousand years is fulfilled, and TIME is no more, we will be living or not in eternity.

Many Blessings,
RW

divaD
Jan 7th 2009, 06:47 PM
So, going back to the example of “a day is a thousand years….”
If we folow the same symbolic meaning as shown above, we can better understand that God is telling us he is OUTSIDE OF
TIME.
We might say that a thousand years have passed, (in regards to some particular event…) but it hasn’t been 1000 years to
God. To HIM, it’s all the same. He is the beginning AND the end.


Hi markdrums. It is really dificult for me to express my thoughts into writing, such as these forums. The thing is, I wholeheartedly agree with your conclusions that I have quoted. But I think it goes even deeper and far more spread out than that. Take Psalms 90:4 instance.

Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Not only do I believe that this verse teaches us that God is outside of time, I also believe that it agrees with 2 Peter 3:8. So how can it be both? That's what I tend to somewhat understand, tho just vaguely, but just can't come up with the right words to explain it.

markdrums
Jan 7th 2009, 08:23 PM
Ohhhhh...get out the whips and chains for the flogging to commence....

You realize you just opened a can of worms here right? :rolleyes:

I have to leave in a minute but will return and see how you are surviving...:lol:


God bless

You mean I get the famous "Moonglow" award?? ;)
:pp

Woohooo!!!!

markdrums
Jan 7th 2009, 08:43 PM
Hi markdrums. It is really dificult for me to express my thoughts into writing, such as these forums. The thing is, I wholeheartedly agree with your conclusions that I have quoted. But I think it goes even deeper and far more spread out than that. Take Psalms 90:4 instance.

Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Not only do I believe that this verse teaches us that God is outside of time, I also believe that it agrees with 2 Peter 3:8. So how can it be both? That's what I tend to somewhat understand, tho just vaguely, but just can't come up with the right words to explain it.


I get what you're saying.
;)

The main thing is, numbers ARE symbolic.
"A thousand" is used manyn times in scripture to represent an unspecified amount..... whether it be people, or hills, or generations, or .... years.
Here's another example:

Jdg 15:16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=15&v=16&t=KJV#16) And Samson said, "With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men."

To think Samson slayed exactly 1000 men, no more no less... would be inaccurate.
Just as thinking God will ONLY keep his mercy & covenant with exactly 1000 generations is being over literal as well.

OR....

Rev 5:11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=5&v=11&t=KJV#11) And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Basically, that's describing an unspecified, innumerable amount....

I know this whole topic is a HUGE subject of debate; (which is part of the reason I decided to bring it up.... LOL!!) but I think it's a good idea to follow previous examples & contexts from scripture, when making our interpretations.

But I think the key message in the whole "time" debate would be: Don't focus on the amount of time specifically.... But yes, there ARE exceptions to the rule.

For instance, Daniel's "Seventy weeks / Seventy Sevens" prophecy.
He was told- Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,......"

So, in this instance there was a specified amount of time given. There is more detail in the prophecy regarding "how long".

Make sense?
:)

markdrums
Jan 7th 2009, 08:47 PM
Greetings Mark,

I think you have already shown that one thousand years symbolizes the fullness or completion of TIME...or this age. When TIME is no more the thousand YEARS (years symbolizing time) will be done, and all that is left after time is no more is eternity. We are NOW living in the thousand years, or another way of saying it, we are NOW living in time...when the thousand years is fulfilled, and TIME is no more, we will be living or not in eternity.

Many Blessings,
RW


Thanks for the reply!
I appreciate the input! :)

The main focus I was wanting to convey was, how the number 1000 symbolizes unspecified/undetermined amounts.

Yes.... I progressed into the context of "time" as well.... but I think it fits in.

Anyway, thanks again!

Emanate
Jan 7th 2009, 08:51 PM
Yes, this is the battle cry of the amillenialst.

moonglow
Jan 7th 2009, 09:22 PM
You mean I get the famous "Moonglow" award?? ;)
:pp

Woohooo!!!!
Yep!:lol::lol::lol:


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p281/matt518672/can-of-worms.jpg

Your post is good to as it could be posted on the end time forum...the apologist forum in a creation debate, just discussing the meanings of numbers in the bible...I bet you struggled in trying to decide which topic to have it viewed under...:lol:

I have heard the debate each 24 'day' the Lord worked on creation, was actually a thousand years...but that still doesn't add up to the millions by far for the old earth view...(if the thousands were literally a thousand years that is)...if on the other hand its viewed as an unlimited amount of time (as God sees fit..whatever that may be) then you could argue the old earth theory.

I think eventually science will show us that time isn't what we think it is.(well actually they are already) For us, God did set a time..the bible shows us a day is 24 hours..we have seasons, the cycles of the moon and the sea and so forth, but in the grand scheme of things, time is not like this...especially not in space. I don't know why more people don't apply Einstein's theory of Relativity..especially when it came to the creation of the universe. the closer you get to the speed of light, the slower time goes...so in a very real way...a day CAN be a thousand years!

But then we also have evidence like this: Scientists (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060316_wmap_results.html) announced today new evidence supporting the theory that the infant universe expanded from subatomic to astronomical size in a fraction of a second after its birth.

Evident too that things were created at a much faster rate then ever imaged. I don't believe God needed a full 24 hours (of our time) to create anything. He could blink it would it would be there...but I don't think that is quite how He works either. I believe in His creation of anything, He takes His time (in HIS definition of time, not ours) I believe He created and everything literally went BANG but He controlled the process too...or set inside of that creation a plan so as it expanded and grew and moved, it couldn't help but follow His plan...

At any rate, we now know time bends, slows down, does all sorts of odd things. Einstein's could literally leave the earth and if he traveled at the speed of light...come back around to earth and meet himself...:lol: Now try to explain that in terms of 'time' as we understand it.

I realize many think (well unbelievers mostly) that the bible is anti science...I so disagree with that...I think science has been so far behind the bible, its just now starting to catch up with it. It would explain time as God sees, it and it would explain the passage..a day is a thousand years to the Lord and a thousands years a day. (well however that goes...I am terrible at paraphrasing..:lol:).

Now if anyone understood my post you get reps! :rofl:

God bless

moonglow
Jan 7th 2009, 09:29 PM
Thanks for the reply!
I appreciate the input! :)

The main focus I was wanting to convey was, how the number 1000 symbolizes unspecified/undetermined amounts.

Yes.... I progressed into the context of "time" as well.... but I think it fits in.

Anyway, thanks again!

Yes in the terms of being a literal thousand years especially as applied to the end times, most studies I have read on it say it wasn't meant to be a literal thousands years. But I don't know if you will convince those that do take it as as a literal thousand years.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T6449)

A thousand (thousands), very often a literal number, but in not a few cases indefinite, e.g. Exodus 20:6 parallel Deuteronomy 5:10; 7:9; 1 Samuel 18:7; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8; Isaiah 60:22, etc. Ten thousand (Hebrew ribbo, ribboth, rebhabhah; Greek murids, murioi) is also used as a round number as in Leviticus 26:8; Deuteronomy 32:30; Song of Solomon 5:10; Micah 6:7. The yet higher figures, thousands of thousands, etc., are, in almost all cases, distinctly hyperbolical round numbers, the most remarkable examples occurring in the apocalyptic books (Daniel 7:10; Revelation 5:11; 9:16; Ethiopic Enoch 40:1).

And some dismiss numbers in the bible as being unimportant though they sure come up alot! :lol:

God bless

divaD
Jan 7th 2009, 09:35 PM
After reading a "certain post" by one of my friends in another section, It gave me an idea. What if we looked at symbolism in numbers in scripture? But ESPECIALLY, this number:

The Number 1000

(Firstly, let's look at examples of the ones we’re most familiar with)

One - Beginning
Two - Witness, separation
Three - The Godhead
Four - Earth, Creation, world
Five - Grace, Cross atonement, life
Six - Man, beast, Satan
Seven - Perfection, completeness
Eight - New beginning
Twelve - Divine government, apostolic fullness
Twenty Four - Priestly courses; governmental perfection
Forty - Probation, testing closing in victory and judgment
Six Hundred Sixty Six – Beast / Antichrist, Satan, the damned

BUT…. What about the number 1000?

We’ve all heard "….one day with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day...."
So, what does that mean? What’s the significance with the number 1000?

Let’s see a couple examples where 1000 is used in scripture & see if we can get an idea of the [I]symbolic meaning.

Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he [is] God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Does that mean that God stops showing mercy, and doesn’t keep his promise to generation 1001? Of course not.

Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest [is] mine, [and] the cattle upon a thousand hills.
Does it mean God does NOT own the cattle on the 1001st hill? Again, NO. That’s not accurate at all.

If we’re paying attention, we’ll realize that ONE THOUSAND represents an Indefinite amount. (Not a literal one.) A number that we as people, may not know for certain, but GOD knows. So whatever the ACTUAL amount is, it’s determined by God; and he expresses it to us as “a Thousand.”

So, going back to the example of “a day is a thousand years….”
If we folow the same symbolic meaning as shown above, we can better understand that God is telling us he is OUTSIDE OF TIME.
We might say that a thousand years have passed, (in regards to some particular event…) but it hasn’t been 1000 years to God. To HIM, it’s all the same. He is the beginning AND the end.

And what about the “Thousand years” in Revelation?
Rev 20:1-7

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

From here I’ll leave it up to you.
Whether or not you decide to try using this application in your scriptural studies is entirely your choice.
But one last thing – How would you now view the Creation Account in Genesis? Was it Six literal days? OR?.............

;)


Hope you enjoyed!
And sorry I repeated the number 1000 a "thousand times".
:lol:




It's true, you have shown several verses where a thousand can represent an unspecified amount, but what about all those verses, too numerous to list, that a thousand literally means a thousand?

Here's a cpl, since I know Daniel is one of your favorite books.http://bibleforums.org/images/smilies/wink.gif

Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

You do take these numbers literally, correct? if so...


Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


Then why wouldn't you, if you do not, take these verses also literally? Each one of them specifically states a thousand years. Why should we interpret this as an unspecified amount of time, when it specifically states 1000 yrs?



Getting back to one of the questions that you posed in this opening post...if one interprets a day to the Lord as 1000 yrs, then what does someone do with the 6 days of creation? Does that then mean those days were a 1000 yrs long? For one thing, it would go a long way in explaining how Adam did indeed die the very same day he partook of the fruit. But no use in me beating around the bush, lol. I don't have a satisfactory answer for you. On one hand, I believe the creation days to be 24 hr days, otoh, I believe that a day to the Lord is the same as 1000 yrs. As one can see, these conclusions don't exactly jive with each other, lol.

markdrums
Jan 7th 2009, 09:54 PM
It's true, you have shown several verses where a thousand can represent an unspecified amount, but what about all those verses, too numerous to list, that a thousand literally means a thousand?

Here's a cpl, since I know Daniel is one of your favorite books.;)

Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

You do take these numbers literally, correct? if so...


Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


Then why wouldn't you, if you do not, take these verses also literally? Each one of them specifically states a thousand years. Why should we interpret this as an unspecified amount of time, when it specifically states 1000 yrs?



Getting back to one of the questions that you posed in this opening post...if one interprets a day to the Lord as 1000 yrs, then what does someone do with the 6 days of creation? Does that then mean those days were a 1000 yrs long? For one thing, it would go a long way in explaining how Adam did indeed die the very same day he partook of the fruit. But no use in me beating around the bush, lol. I don't have a satisfactory answer for you. On one hand, I believe the creation days to be 24 hr days, otoh, I believe that a day to the Lord is the same as 1000 yrs. As one can see, these conclusions don't exactly jive with each other, lol.


LOTS of questions!!! KEWL!!

I'll try to answer in the order of which ones I have time to tackle while I'm here at work. LOL!

The six days of creation- with God telling us "a day is 1000 yrs. and 1000 yrs is a day..."

God, in essence is saying to us: "Look... by YOUR understanding of time, this took,.... well...... a long time". ;)
(That's probably the shortest paraphrasing I've ever done... but that's the gist of it.)

MacGyver
Jan 7th 2009, 11:13 PM
markdrums

I like your point because it sounds like a good Augustinian point!

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 7th 2009, 11:41 PM
Moonglow.. can I use your worms for fishing? lol...

divaD
Jan 8th 2009, 12:26 AM
The main focus I was wanting to convey was, how the number 1000 symbolizes unspecified/undetermined amounts.


In that case, perhaps you should disregard the first half of my prev post, since the verses I supplied in Daniel did have the number 'thousand' in them, but not specifically the number 1000 by itelf. But don't worry, I did find some verses such as that.




Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

http://bibleforums.org/images/smilies/wink.gif

markedward
Jan 8th 2009, 01:20 AM
It's true, you have shown several verses where a thousand can represent an unspecified amount, but what about all those verses, too numerous to list, that a thousand literally means a thousand?You realize there's a difference between the numbers you're citing? 2300 days, 1290 days, 1335 days... they're specific numbers, and they're not used repeatedly throughout the Bible. The number "1000" is used repeatedly throughout the Bible as figurative of an indeterminate amount.

divaD
Jan 8th 2009, 01:24 AM
You realize there's a difference between the numbers you're citing? 2300 days, 1290 days, 1335 days... they're specific numbers, and they're not used repeatedly throughout the Bible. The number "1000" is used repeatedly throughout the Bible as figurative of an indeterminate amount.



Hi markedward. Yes I now realize it. If you look at my last post, you should be able to see where I corrected that mistake. :)

markedward
Jan 8th 2009, 01:46 AM
Ah, sorry. I guess I missed it, somehow. My apologies.

divaD
Jan 8th 2009, 01:48 AM
I mentioned this just yesterday on a different post. Why does God talk about the end times and then compare it with the
flood and THEN mention verse 8? These verses are about the timing of the end? Especially verse 8. Go back and look at the
flood account. What did God tell Noah about the impending flood?

Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living
substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

He gave the timing of the flood to Noah. Seven days. Why is this important? Because spiritually the ark represents Christ as
the Saviour. Only in the ark (Christ) could Noah find safety from the flood (judgement). So God is telling us that we have 7
days (7000 years) to get into the safety of Christ before judgement. A day is as a thousand years. So, know what year the
flood happened and we will know what year the end is.


I believe that this is basically the way many of us interpret this, including myself. But I have never counted days from the flood, I always did it from the beginning of man. From that point, I assumed we were basically at the end of day 6, fastly approaching day 7.

When do you believe that the flood happened, and how many days would it have been since that time?

markdrums
Jan 8th 2009, 02:00 AM
In that case, perhaps you should disregard the first half of my prev post, since the verses I supplied in Daniel did have the number 'thousand' in them, but not specifically the number 1000 by itelf. But don't worry, I did find some verses such as that.




Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

;)

Well, I'll "Officially" go on record & say, "Yes, I AM an Amellinnialist". ;)
So, I don't view the 1000 years in Revelation as a literal Earthley thousand year reign.

(However, that's NOT the upbringing I had in church..... However; I had too many questions that couldn't be satisfactorily answered, and too many gaps/holes that just never made sense..... BUT alas, THAT is an entirely different thread! LOL!!!)

After doing my own personal studies, & spending more time than ever in the Bible, I personally believe we are IN the 1000 years now. (Or maybe the "little season" afterward..... I'm still undecided for sure.)

So, in other words, I DON'T see Revelation speaking of a "Mellinnial reign" on Earth.

Believe me, I STILL get confused over the significance of many numbers... especially when they're combined..... like:
2Ch 26:13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Ch&c=26&v=13&t=KJV#13) And under their hand [was] an army, three hundred thousand and seven thousand and five hundred, that made war with mighty power, to help the king against the enemy.

Stuff like that makes me ask, "Literal? or Deeper symbolism?" LOL!

But, like in my O.P. - there's a dozen or so numbers that most of us are familiar with, & realize the deeper spiritual impact it adds to the text.
(Like Jesus being 3 days / nights in the tomb.... Jonah 3 days/nights in the belly of the whale.... etc.....)

All in all, I can rest assured that I'll never be "bored" reading the Bible!!!
:D

markdrums
Jan 8th 2009, 02:11 AM
Finally someone who views numbers the way I view them. Every word in the bible is parabolic by nature because the whole bible is the words of God. Words or numbers have i think both parbolic and worldly meanings.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:



I think you are on to something here. However I would like to suggest that 1000 represents Complete amount, Totality, or All. Probably the same thing as you stated but I think easier to understand the mening of.

That works with verses mentioned as examples by others.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years (or complete number of years) should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years (or complete number of years) were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest [is] mine, [and] the cattle upon a thousand hills (or all hills).







Ahhh yes!
THAT was the missing definition I was racking my brain trying to come up with; "Completion/Total".

Thank YOU!!!!!
:)

That additional bit really helps explain what I mean about Revelation & the 1000 years mentioned within.

markdrums
Jan 8th 2009, 02:20 AM
Yep!:lol::lol::lol:


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p281/matt518672/can-of-worms.jpg

Your post is good to as it could be posted on the end time forum...the apologist forum in a creation debate, just discussing the meanings of numbers in the bible...I bet you struggled in trying to decide which topic to have it viewed under...:lol:




Well, FYI....
I saved the picture (I mean trophy / award) as a momento!
I'll be putting it in my photo album too!

Also-
Yepper! I was debating with myself about which section to post it.... I mean, it IS multi-facited after all!
:D

It's got it all!
Biblical hermenutics / exegetical interpretation, general Biblical discussion, End Times related material......... How could I go wrong?

LOL!!!

ANYWAY,
Thanks again for letting me carry the torch for a moment or two!

divaD
Jan 8th 2009, 02:57 AM
When studying the calendars of Gen. 5 and 11, I can conclude fairly certainly that the flood occured in 4990 BC.



Hmmmm...very interesting. It looks like that puts us at the end of day 6, with day 7 just around the corner, right?

divaD
Jan 8th 2009, 03:55 AM
When studying the calendars of Gen. 5 and 11, I can conclude fairly certainly that the flood occured in 4990 BC.



I don't know, and I admit that I have never done this before, but using a calc and adding the 120 years in Gen 6:3, i come up that the flood occured in
1676 BC. Also, what does Gen 11 have to do with it? These would all be born after the flood.

It appears to me, in order to come to the correct numbers one needs to add like this.

Gen 5:3 + Gen 5:6 + Gen 5:9 + Gen 5:12, etc, IOW, add from when someone is born. and disregard when someone dies, since this wouldn't have anything to do with the count.

Something like this. Seth was born in 130. Enos was born in 235, 105 years after Seth was born, etc etc.

But let's not stray off topic here. I would love for you to show me where I'm wrong if you disagree. In a new thread of course.

My apologies to markdrums. I'll try to refrain from discussing this any further in this thread, but I wouldn't mind discussing it in a new one, if anyone is interested. Just for fun of course.

moonglow
Jan 8th 2009, 04:00 AM
Moonglow.. can I use your worms for fishing? lol...

You gotta get your own worms sorry...these are for award purposes only! :lol:


markdrums:Well, FYI....
I saved the picture (I mean trophy / award) as a momento!
I'll be putting it in my photo album too!

Also-
Yepper! I was debating with myself about which section to post it.... I mean, it IS multi-facited after all!


It's got it all!
Biblical hermenutics / exegetical interpretation, general Biblical discussion, End Times related material......... How could I go wrong?

LOL!!!

ANYWAY,
Thanks again for letting me carry the torch for a moment or two!

Dragonfighter had it for months now! It was someone else's turn...:lol:

God bless

markdrums
Jan 8th 2009, 04:00 AM
I don't know, and I admit that I have never done this before, but using a calc and adding the 120 years in Gen 6:3, i come up that the flood occured in
1676 BC. Also, what does Gen 11 have to do with it? These would all be born after the flood.

It appears to me, in order to come to the correct numbers one needs to add like this.

Gen 5:3 + Gen 5:6 + Gen 5:9 + Gen 5:12, etc, IOW, add from when someone is born. and disregard when someone dies, since this wouldn't have anything to do with the count.

Something like this. Seth was born in 130. Enos was born in 235, 105 years after Seth was born, etc etc.

But let's not stray off topic here. I would love for you to show me where I'm wrong if you disagree. In a new thread of course.

My apologies to markdrums. I'll try to refrain from discussing this any further in this thread, but I wouldn't mind discussing it in a new one, if anyone is interested. Just for fun of course.

;)
Ain't no thang!

I knew by combining several subjects & examples we'd end up with a variety of posts. It's all goood!

But my question is:
With these proposed dates, such as: 1676 BC / 4900 BC... etc Are we talking years, or days?

Heeeeeheeeee!!!:P

bennie
Jan 8th 2009, 05:14 AM
I don't know, and I admit that I have never done this before, but using a calc and adding the 120 years in Gen 6:3, i come up that the flood occured in
1676 BC. Also, what does Gen 11 have to do with it? These would all be born after the flood.

It appears to me, in order to come to the correct numbers one needs to add like this.

Gen 5:3 + Gen 5:6 + Gen 5:9 + Gen 5:12, etc, IOW, add from when someone is born. and disregard when someone dies, since this wouldn't have anything to do with the count.

Something like this. Seth was born in 130. Enos was born in 235, 105 years after Seth was born, etc etc.

But let's not stray off topic here. I would love for you to show me where I'm wrong if you disagree. In a new thread of course.

My apologies to markdrums. I'll try to refrain from discussing this any further in this thread, but I wouldn't mind discussing it in a new one, if anyone is interested. Just for fun of course.


hi divad.

i believe it can be proven that the flood was in 2376BC.


Hi markdrums.

I have one question.
Why do we take all of the apocoliptic time periods in Daniel and Revelation literaly, but not the 1000 years? Dont you think that is inaccurate (bad)hermanuatics??

bennie

markdrums
Jan 8th 2009, 05:46 AM
hi divad.

i believe it can be proven that the flood was in 2376BC.


Hi markdrums.

I have one question.
Why do we take all of the apocoliptic time periods in Daniel and Revelation literaly, but not the 1000 years? Dont you think that is inaccurate (bad)hermanuatics??

bennie

I'm not sure what you mean bennie.

I don't take a whole lot of Revelation as being "literal descriptions". Literal events, YES! But literal descriptions of those events.... not many of them.

There's a mix of literal, symbolic, metaphoric etc... in every book of the Bible.
The repeated use of certain numbers gives us an indication as to their meaning.
(The same can be said for phrases too.... like "coming on clouds". But that's a whole new thread... LOL!)

Think of scripture as "communication". Just like ALL forms of communication, there are literal things being described, but they're "flavored" with metaphors & hyperboles.

Also-
What's with all the "flood dating?"
(just wondering...)

Bliz
Jan 8th 2009, 08:54 AM
Hello to All,

As this is my first post,

I may as well come into this site in a controversial manner... in the interest of time given the late hour of my response, please forgive my paraphrasing of the Scriptures.

Here's some food for thought... Peter said not to let this fact escape our notice that with the Lord, a day is as 1000 yrs, and 1000 yrs as one day. Note that this is tied in with the promise of His coming. Why would Peter go out of his way to call our attention to this?


What if a timeline of the Spirit's striving with man on earth is being given through Peter from the perspective of God to Christians in relationship to Christ's return?

If this is so, then God has given us an answer through His Word in a way which did not answer the willingly ignorant scoffers who mocked about the promise of His coming. Peter tells us not to be ignorant like they were.

We are then told to focus on the key which the Holy Spirit uses to unlock the mystery...

Numbers are indeed incorporated into God's design of the Scriptures. For example: In Genesis Chpt 6 God mentions that His Spirit wont strive with mankind forever, and that his (man's)days will number 120 yrs. Noting that the number 50 is representative of the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures, as the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost (meaning 50 days) this is merely one of many examples of how this number is used in relationship to the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

If we multiply the striving of the Holy Spirit by the number of years indicated in Genesis 6 that He would strive with us, (120 X 50) we come out to 6000 yrs, or six days according to Peter's timeline.

Notice that in the creation, Man was created on day six. Six is the number for man in the Bible, and may well represent the number of years that he will dwell upon the earth according to Genesis in light of Peter's timeline.

In Matthew Chpt 17 the Scriptures begin with "After six days" Jesus took James, Peter, and John up to a high mountain where He was transfigured before them. Christ gave his inner circle a preview of His return to establish His Kingdom on earth. The apostles on the high mountain that day witnessed Him in His glory. Peter recollects the account in his later writings mentioning that he had been an eyewitness of His majesty...

Christ came in humility, and will one day return in glory.

If you read the full account in Matthew, you'll also see that Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ, and Peter had asked if they could make three tabernacles (one for Jesus, Moses, and Elijah). What's interesting is that the feast of Tabernacles is a type, or preview of the return of Christ who will come to Tabernacle again with man. What's also fascinating is that Moses died at 120 yrs old on the anniversary of his birth. Elijah was translated.

Could these two be a type of those described in 1Thessalonians 4: 16-17 (With Moses representing a type of the righteous dead in Christ with whom God's Spirit Strived with, and Elijah representing those who are alive and caught up)?

What is also extremely fascinating is the fact that Elijah is the prophet which all Jews associate the ultimate redemption of Israel. They believe that he will one day accompany the Messiah at His return. What's also interesting, is that there is a link in that passage with regard to John the Baptist being a type of Elijah, as his ministry was to prepare the way of the Lord accompanying Christ's first advent. As John had mentioned, baptism toward repentence was necessary, as the kingdom of God was indeed at hand, as One who came after him, but was before him, would baptize us in the Spirit.

If you look back on Matthew 17, you'll also remember that Jesus told James, Peter, and John not to say anything about what they had witnessed, until the Son of man had risen from the dead. Jesus didn't want the disciples to put the crown of the glorified Christ before the cross.I believe that Jesus took them ahead in time to witness His majestic return for the establishment of His earthly kingdom.

Great Stuff!

Another example of the prophetic timeline in relationship to the coming of the Lord can be seen in the Biblical account of Lazarus. If you remember, when Jesus had heard of Lazarus' sickness, He remained two more days until Lazarus died. By the time he had arrived at the tomb, Lazarus had already been dead for 4 days. note from the time that Jesus heard of Lazarus' sickness, until he got to the tomb, it was 6 days in total which had passed. When Jesus told Martha that her brother would live again, and she said I know he will rise in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus told her "I am the resurrection an the life"... His very appearing in the sky as mentioned in 1Thessalonians will raise the dead and give life as He is indeed the resurrection and the life! Note however, that Adam's sin had left us in a state of sickness until the law came. The law is called the administration of death written on tablets of stone... I believe that 6000 yrs from Adams creation, God is going to wrap up his plans regarding the Striving of His Spirit with mankind on earth, as His spirit will not strive with us forever, as He will perfect those who are His when we see Him face to face as literal sons of God being in a glorified body which has been directly parented by His Divine hand.

Another example of a prophetic timeline can be seen in Genesis Chpt 1 with the creation account. On day 4, God made lights in the heavens. these were to divide the day from the night, and to be for signs and seasons, and for days and for years. He made two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light on the earth. Notice that the two great lights were given to give light upon the earth. The Greater light is the Sun, which represents a type of Christ who rules the day, and the Moon, which represents a type of the believer who has dominion over the darkness. Note that the moon gets it's light from the Sun, and when we, like the Moon, reflect the S O N, we will have dominion over the darkness. Note that light wasn't given to the earth until day four. Note: approximately 4000 yrs from Adam (or 4 days...), Jesus came to the earth, and said "I am the light of the world". This would also fit the prophetic chronology of Peter's epistle... I also find it fascinating that the lights were for signs of which I may be speaking about, and for measuring time itself. Isn't it fascinating that we measure time by the birth of Christ's coming into the world as our standard? Why should we be surprised when the possibility exists that this was all foretold to us in the book of Genesis?

I certainly wouldn't be too quick to discount the use of numbers, as I believe that God has given them with great specificity in the text of His Word. There is a definite reason for Peter's calling our attention to the reference point of a day being as 1000 yrs, and 1000yrs as one day.

Again,... food for thought.

moonglow
Jan 8th 2009, 08:07 PM
Hello to All,

As this is my first post,

I may as well come into this site in a controversial manner... in the interest of time given the late hour of my response, please forgive my paraphrasing of the Scriptures.

Here's some food for thought... Peter said not to let this fact escape our notice that with the Lord, a day is as 1000 yrs, and 1000 yrs as one day. Note that this is tied in with the promise of His coming. Why would Peter go out of his way to call our attention to this?


What if a timeline of the Spirit's striving with man on earth is being given through Peter from the perspective of God to Christians in relationship to Christ's return?

If this is so, then God has given us an answer through His Word in a way which did not answer the willingly ignorant scoffers who mocked about the promise of His coming. Peter tells us not to be ignorant like they were.

We are then told to focus on the key which the Holy Spirit uses to unlock the mystery...

Numbers are indeed incorporated into God's design of the Scriptures. For example: In Genesis Chpt 6 God mentions that His Spirit wont strive with mankind forever, and that his (man's)days will number 120 yrs. Noting that the number 50 is representative of the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures, as the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost (meaning 50 days) this is merely one of many examples of how this number is used in relationship to the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

If we multiply the striving of the Holy Spirit by the number of years indicated in Genesis 6 that He would strive with us, (120 X 50) we come out to 6000 yrs, or six days according to Peter's timeline.

Notice that in the creation, Man was created on day six. Six is the number for man in the Bible, and may well represent the number of years that he will dwell upon the earth according to Genesis in light of Peter's timeline.

In Matthew Chpt 17 the Scriptures begin with "After six days" Jesus took James, Peter, and John up to a high mountain where He was transfigured before them. Christ gave his inner circle a preview of His return to establish His Kingdom on earth. The apostles on the high mountain that day witnessed Him in His glory. Peter recollects the account in his later writings mentioning that he had been an eyewitness of His majesty...

Christ came in humility, and will one day return in glory.

If you read the full account in Matthew, you'll also see that Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ, and Peter had asked if they could make three tabernacles (one for Jesus, Moses, and Elijah). What's interesting is that the feast of Tabernacles is a type, or preview of the return of Christ who will come to Tabernacle again with man. What's also fascinating is that Moses died at 120 yrs old on the anniversary of his birth. Elijah was translated.

Could these two be a type of those described in 1Thessalonians 4: 16-17 (With Moses representing a type of the righteous dead in Christ with whom God's Spirit Strived with, and Elijah representing those who are alive and caught up)?

What is also extremely fascinating is the fact that Elijah is the prophet which all Jews associate the ultimate redemption of Israel. They believe that he will one day accompany the Messiah at His return. What's also interesting, is that there is a link in that passage with regard to John the Baptist being a type of Elijah, as his ministry was to prepare the way of the Lord accompanying Christ's first advent. As John had mentioned, baptism toward repentence was necessary, as the kingdom of God was indeed at hand, as One who came after him, but was before him, would baptize us in the Spirit.

If you look back on Matthew 17, you'll also remember that Jesus told James, Peter, and John not to say anything about what they had witnessed, until the Son of man had risen from the dead. Jesus didn't want the disciples to put the crown of the glorified Christ before the cross.I believe that Jesus took them ahead in time to witness His majestic return for the establishment of His earthly kingdom.

Great Stuff!

Another example of the prophetic timeline in relationship to the coming of the Lord can be seen in the Biblical account of Lazarus. If you remember, when Jesus had heard of Lazarus' sickness, He remained two more days until Lazarus died. By the time he had arrived at the tomb, Lazarus had already been dead for 4 days. note from the time that Jesus heard of Lazarus' sickness, until he got to the tomb, it was 6 days in total which had passed. When Jesus told Martha that her brother would live again, and she said I know he will rise in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus told her "I am the resurrection an the life"... His very appearing in the sky as mentioned in 1Thessalonians will raise the dead and give life as He is indeed the resurrection and the life! Note however, that Adam's sin had left us in a state of sickness until the law came. The law is called the administration of death written on tablets of stone... I believe that 6000 yrs from Adams creation, God is going to wrap up his plans regarding the Striving of His Spirit with mankind on earth, as His spirit will not strive with us forever, as He will perfect those who are His when we see Him face to face as literal sons of God being in a glorified body which has been directly parented by His Divine hand.

Another example of a prophetic timeline can be seen in Genesis Chpt 1 with the creation account. On day 4, God made lights in the heavens. these were to divide the day from the night, and to be for signs and seasons, and for days and for years. He made two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light on the earth. Notice that the two great lights were given to give light upon the earth. The Greater light is the Sun, which represents a type of Christ who rules the day, and the Moon, which represents a type of the believer who has dominion over the darkness. Note that the moon gets it's light from the Sun, and when we, like the Moon, reflect the S O N, we will have dominion over the darkness. Note that light wasn't given to the earth until day four. Note: approximately 4000 yrs from Adam (or 4 days...), Jesus came to the earth, and said "I am the light of the world". This would also fit the prophetic chronology of Peter's epistle... I also find it fascinating that the lights were for signs of which I may be speaking about, and for measuring time itself. Isn't it fascinating that we measure time by the birth of Christ's coming into the world as our standard? Why should we be surprised when the possibility exists that this was all foretold to us in the book of Genesis?

I certainly wouldn't be too quick to discount the use of numbers, as I believe that God has given them with great specificity in the text of His Word. There is a definite reason for Peter's calling our attention to the reference point of a day being as 1000 yrs, and 1000yrs as one day.

Again,... food for thought.

That was an impressive first post! I wanted to say hi and welcome to the board. Your post gives me alot to think about too. :)

God bless

bennie
Jan 8th 2009, 10:42 PM
I'm not sure what you mean bennie.

I don't take a whole lot of Revelation as being "literal descriptions". Literal events, YES! But literal descriptions of those events.... not many of them.

There's a mix of literal, symbolic, metaphoric etc... in every book of the Bible.
The repeated use of certain numbers gives us an indication as to their meaning.
(The same can be said for phrases too.... like "coming on clouds". But that's a whole new thread... LOL!)

Think of scripture as "communication". Just like ALL forms of communication, there are literal things being described, but they're "flavored" with metaphors & hyperboles.

Also-
What's with all the "flood dating?"
(just wondering...)


Hi markdrums.

what i mean is this. In Daniel and Revelation there is time periods. ex the 1260 days, 2300 years,42 months etc etc. Most people seems to take all those time periods literal. But, when it comes to the 1000 years,. thay seem to want to spiritualize it. why is that? If all the other time periods are literal, then surely this one needs to aswell. To be consistent in interpretation.:idea: I am only talking about time periods in these two appacoliptic books.

bennie
p.s. divad was talking about the flood dating

Bliz
Jan 9th 2009, 12:51 AM
Thanks so much for your warm welcome Moonglow. Blessings to you!

RogerW
Jan 9th 2009, 01:13 AM
THE COMPLETE BIBLICAL TIME LINE EACH PATRIARCH'S YEAR FROM CREATION Age of World PATRIARCH YEARS! EACH ENDS FROM CHRIST -----------------------------------------------------------------
Creation 0 11,013 B.C
Adam 130 130 10,883 B.C.
*Seth 105 235 10,778 B.C.
*Enos 905 1140 9873 B.C.
Cainan 910 2050 8963 B.C.
Mahalaleel 895 2945 8068 B.C.
Jared 962 3907 7106 B.C. Enoch 365 4272 6741 B.C.
Methuselah 969 5241 5772 B.C.
Lamech 182 5423 5590 B.C.
*Noah 502 5925 5088 B.C.
The Flood! 6023 4990 B.C.
*Shem 600 6525 4488 B.C.
Arphaxad 438 6963 4050 B.C.
Salah 433 7396 3617 B.C.
Eber 464 7860 3153 B.C.
Peleg 239 8099 2914 B.C.
Reu 239 8338 2675 B.C.
Serug 230 8568 2445 B.C.
Nahor 148 8716 2297 B.C.
Terah 130 8846 2167 B.C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*Abraham Born 8846 2167 B.C.
Isaac Born 8946 2067 B.C.
Jacob Born 9006 2007 B.C.
Jacob's Tribe arrived in Egypt when he was 130 years old 9136 1877 B.C.
Exodus from Egypt 430 years later 9566 1447 B.C.
Entrance into Canaan 40 years later 9606 1407 B.C.
First 40 years in Israel, which lasts until... 9646 1367 B.C
The next 80 years which includes, The first 7x7 (Jubilee Year), 9656 1357 B.C. lasts until... 9726 1287 B.C.
The next 40 years of Israel lasts until... 9766 1247 B.C.
Gideon judged until... 9806 1207 B.C.
Abimelech rules 9809 1204 B.C.
Tola judged until 9832 1181 B.C.
Jair judged until 9854 1159 B.C.
Jephthah judged until 9860 1153 B.C.
Ibzan judged until 9867 1146 B.C.
Elon judged until 9877 1136 B.C.
Abon judged until 9885 1128 B.C.
Samson judged until 9905 1108 B.C. Eli Judged until 9945 1068 B.C.
When Eli heard Ark was removed, he fell & brake his neck. Ark in hands of Philistines until 9946 1067 B.C.
Then Samuel judged until 9966 1047 B.C.
Saul was king 40 years until David begins to Reign in.. 10006 1007 B.C.
Solomon begins to reign in Co regency in.. 10042 971 B.C.
Temple construction begins 480 years after the exodus ^^^ 10046 967 B.C.
Division of kingdoms 36 years later 10082 931 B.C.
10 tribes of Israel destroyed 10291 722 B.C.
End of Northern Kingdom of Israel 10303 710 B.C.
Israel under Egypt at Josiah's Death 10404 609 B.C.
Israel destroyed by Babylon 10426 587 B.C.
Babylon Conquered by the Meades and Persians 10474 539 B.C.
Ezra returns to Jerusalem 10555 458 B.C.
Nehemiah rebuilds walls 10568 445 B.C. Jubilee Year (seven sevens) Believed to be the Birthdate of Christ, exactly 2000 years after Israel was was born. 11006 7 B.C. 1 B.C. 11012 1 B.C.
The (supposed) year 1 11013 1 A.D.
The Anointing and baptism of Christ by John the Baptist 11041 29 A.D.
Death Of Christ on cross 11045 33 A.D.
To the year 1994, the 40th Jubilee from the cross and exactly 2000 years from 7 A.D. 13006 1994 A.D.
The year to date 13008 1996 A.D. ----------- ------------ From Adam From Christ

Copyright ©1996 Tony Warren
http://mountainretreatorg.net/bible/timeline.shtml

markdrums
Jan 9th 2009, 02:06 AM
Hi markdrums.

what i mean is this. In Daniel and Revelation there is time periods. ex the 1260 days, 2300 years,42 months etc etc. Most people seems to take all those time periods literal. But, when it comes to the 1000 years,. thay seem to want to spiritualize it. why is that? If all the other time periods are literal, then surely this one needs to aswell. To be consistent in interpretation.:idea: I am only talking about time periods in these two appacoliptic books.

bennie
p.s. divad was talking about the flood dating

Ahhhh! OK.
I see what you're saying now.

markedward made a GREAT point & explanation with other numbers in an earlier post. Most of the other numbers are "specific" numbers, & not repeated throughout scripture... whereas "1000" is used numerous times... and the context always implies an unspecified / complete amount.

Thanks for the addition to the thread & for explaining your post!

:)

RogerW
Jan 9th 2009, 02:49 AM
Very awesome Rogerw. I figured if anyone here would have the timeline down you would. I however didn't take it as far as you have listed in your post. What I personally studied and verified was from Creation to the death of Solomon. I get a bit flustered when I try to verify the timeline of the kings of Israel. It gets very confusing.

Thank you for the complete timeline though. I think if people were to look it over biblically, they would understand that the world is 13000 and not 6000 or so years old. But that's for another thread. Though this isn't the subject of the thread, blessing can come where we least expect it. Hopefully some will get blessing from this calendar.

Mike

Greetings Mike,

I can't take any credit whatsoever for this very thorough time line. It's way over my head! What I posted here is only a tip of the iceberg. If you want to be totally blown away by the indepth study, go to the link I provided.

Many Blessings,
RW

reformedct
Jan 9th 2009, 04:00 AM
the thousand years represent aheavenly chronological order of divine oneness and yet a thousand years is one day it is a cosmological theocentric quantitative chronological key to eternal undertanding and spiritual realms













:rofl:

divaD
Jan 9th 2009, 04:18 AM
the thousand years represent aheavenly chronological order of divine oneness and yet a thousand years is one day it is a cosmological theocentric quantitative chronological key to eternal undertanding and spiritual realms













:rofl:


I certainly can't nor will argue with this. Mainly..because I have no clue as to what it means. I'll just take your word for it. LOL