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TruthFaith
Jan 7th 2009, 10:55 PM
Good afternoon and thank you for taking the time for me. Over the last couple of months I believe I have reached the pinnacle of sadness, in envy and wonder of the seemingly joyful and content lives around me. I expect no sympathy; only comfort in the responses I receive. The feeling I have is I ineffable because I donít know how other people make it
through the day. I feel that life is more of a burden to live than a gift, for instance.

Well, the first question I ask is how do we know God exists? I know this seems absurd and as quite a shock to many, but I still canít seem to take that leap of faith all the way. I always hear (on this forum) of the wonderful things God has done to transform their lives. I am not denying them. I also know the importance of Christís love and the reason for dying for our sins: eternal life.

I just need some truth, to know if God is there, to know if He is all-knowing, because the way I see it is that there like no possible way to know everything, that most of knowledge is subjective and like how does God know everything?

I know Iím going to get a lot of, ďoh you just have to believe/have faithĒ answers but I need some substance.

As I see that life has either no meaning or either a lot of questions. Iím just a person with so many questions.

This is a restless period of my life-no sleep, stress, bags under my eyes, I feel like something dark, lethargic, and very melancholy.

Iím seventeen now. Any help is greatly appreciated.

moonglow
Jan 7th 2009, 11:42 PM
I noticed you have selected that you are a Christian on your thing there...but posting in the forum for nonbelievers??

Sounds almost like you need to change that to 'seeking'...

I understand what you are saying...no one can just make themselves belief...or just have faith either. Faith is given by God as the bible says.

Many have come to believe through needing more as you say...this is where Christian apologists comes in....which I think is great for people like you.

First there is alot of outside evidence the bible is true...historical and archeological evidence...evidence of fulfilled prophecies..and they are finding more all the time. You may see a news article from time to time like finding the cave of John the Baptist...things like that.

All of creation speaks of God the creator too!

I am going to give you some links with information that I hope helps. Weigh the evidence..and pray. The bible says if you draw nearer to God, He will draw nearer to you..:)

This first one is a video...may it calm you and fill your soul with peace:

Creation Calls -- are you listening? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwGvfdtI2c0&feature=channel_page)

Fulfilled Prophecies and Other Evidence that the Bible is the Word of God (http://www.matthewmcgee.org/prophesy.html)

Bible history (http://www.bible-history.com/)

May the Lord lead you in your search for answers.

I have tons more if you need them.

God bless

TruthFaith
Jan 8th 2009, 12:54 AM
moonglow, thanks for the video. It cheered me up.

But I also want to know if you have more links...

catholicdude
Jan 8th 2009, 01:02 AM
Good afternoon and thank you for taking the time for me. Over the last couple of months I believe I have reached the pinnacle of sadness, in envy and wonder of the seemingly joyful and content lives around me. I expect no sympathy; only comfort in the responses I receive. The feeling I have is I ineffable because I don’t know how other people make it
through the day. I feel that life is more of a burden to live than a gift, for instance.

Well, the first question I ask is how do we know God exists? I know this seems absurd and as quite a shock to many, but I still can’t seem to take that leap of faith all the way. I always hear (on this forum) of the wonderful things God has done to transform their lives. I am not denying them. I also know the importance of Christ’s love and the reason for dying for our sins: eternal life.

I just need some truth, to know if God is there, to know if He is all-knowing, because the way I see it is that there like no possible way to know everything, that most of knowledge is subjective and like how does God know everything?

I know I’m going to get a lot of, “oh you just have to believe/have faith” answers but I need some substance.

As I see that life has either no meaning or either a lot of questions. I’m just a person with so many questions.

This is a restless period of my life-no sleep, stress, bags under my eyes, I feel like something dark, lethargic, and very melancholy.

I’m seventeen now. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Hi TruthFaith,

I'm seventeen as well, I was fortunate enough to be brought up in a fairly religious household, I've never had to worry about the existence of God. I know you want substance, but that phrase is something you have to hear. You do have to have a lot of faith, something that I think would help you is to read the Bible.

sAs for substance, there is a book called Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Peter Kreeft and (don't remember the first name) Tacelli. In chapter three, it has some rather interesting "proofs" for the existence of God, I put it in qoutations because they don't give undeniable proof that He exists, but they all convinced me! (there's 20 of them!) Some of them are kind of hard to wrap your head around but the ones that you can wrap your head around I'm sure will satisfy your needs. I don't have the book with me right now so I couldn't give you one, but I think I should be able to this weekend, if you like.

I hope this helps!

Pax,
Zach

P.S. Hang in there! Whether you believe it or not, God is with you. He will help you through all your troubles!

[EDIT] P.P.S. I understand how hard it is to understand all of Gods characteristics like Him being all-knowing. I myself cannot grasp the fact that God always existed and was never created, but I accept it because I DO understand that my finite human brain cannot comprehend things that are beyond my understanding. So, all I can say is that you're just going to have to except it, that book I told you about covers many of these subjects as well, it's definitely a good read.

Peterguy
Jan 8th 2009, 01:35 AM
The substance you seek is all around you. You may have heard this before but just look at the universe. Why should it be here? There is no real reason for anything at all to exist. Without a God nothing could exist at all. Think about it. Why would it be possible for you be even reading this right now? Either God made everything or nothing did. If you believe in the big bang and you study it out, scientists tell you that the big bang started out as a singularity which means an infitesmal dot. It is infinetely small which if interpreted to mean what it really says, it means nothing. If something is infinietely small then we must conclude it takes up no space whatsoever and therefore does not exist. So either nothing made everything or God made everything.

Then there is another argument that goes well what if the universe existed forever, it was always here. If this is true and the universe has existed forever then consider the following.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that everything tends toward disorder. For example, if you build a house and let it stay there, soon enough things on the house will start to deteriate. Given enough time and enough years there is no house there any longer because elemenets from the sun and other forces of nature will have destroyed it. This is true not just with a house but with any physical thing. Energy is consumed and the physical object deteriates.

If the universe has existed forever then that means that everything contained in the universe would have been destroyed, consumed and used as there would be no more energy left.

The other thing that doesnt make sense about this scenario is this. Suppose for a second the universe has existed forever. That means before the present an infinite amount of time would have passed, meaning that an infinite amount of events within that time would have passed. Infinite generations from other worlds would have come and gone, the earth would have been hit by an infinite amount of asteroids since that chance is infinitely possible in this scenario. The point is this though, if this is true you can never reach the present cuz there would always be one more thing that would have to happen before you can get here. BUt alas we are indeed in the present so this scenario makes no sense.

So really this rules out the only explanation about the universe. It was created by a God that is not bound by space or time. For He himself created both.

Hope this helps and isn't that confusing for you

Athanasius
Jan 8th 2009, 02:10 AM
Well, the first question I ask is how do we know God exists? I know this seems absurd and as quite a shock to many, but I still can’t seem to take that leap of faith all the way. I always hear (on this forum) of the wonderful things God has done to transform their lives. I am not denying them. I also know the importance of Christ’s love and the reason for dying for our sins: eternal life.
No one is asking you to take Kierkegaard's leap of faith. In fact Christian faith is quite the opposite of what Kierkegaard proposed (which is unfortunate, I quite like Kierkegaard). Christian faith is evidenced based faith. There's a story in the New Testament where Paul is speaking on the resurrection. In the course of his excogitation he doesn't say, "believe me at my word, take a leap of faith!" he says, "there are almost 500 living witnesses, go ask them".

I will ask that if you're to take a "leap of faith" at all (and I dislike using the phrase), that you would believe the evidence presented in the New Testament, attesting to the life of Christ. I will not ask you to simply "have faith and believe" for that isn't good enough for me, I don't see why it would be good enough for anyone else.



I just need some truth, to know if God is there, to know if He is all-knowing, because the way I see it is that there like no possible way to know everything, that most of knowledge is subjective and like how does God know everything?

He knows everything because He knows everything. That's what Scripture tells us about God. You can believe or disbelieve this according to what Scripture reveals to us about God and His character. Many things don't make sense; quantum physics, super string theory, multi-worlds interpretation... But that doesn't make them any less true simply because they're hard to believe.



I’m seventeen now. Any help is greatly appreciated.

The true issue here is how you view truth and knowledge.

Gregg
Jan 8th 2009, 01:37 PM
Good afternoon and thank you for taking the time for me. Over the last couple of months I believe I have reached the pinnacle of sadness, in envy and wonder of the seemingly joyful and content lives around me. I expect no sympathy; only comfort in the responses I receive. The feeling I have is I ineffable because I donít know how other people make it
through the day. I feel that life is more of a burden to live than a gift, for instance.

Well, the first question I ask is how do we know God exists? I know this seems absurd and as quite a shock to many, but I still canít seem to take that leap of faith all the way. I always hear (on this forum) of the wonderful things God has done to transform their lives. I am not denying them. I also know the importance of Christís love and the reason for dying for our sins: eternal life.

I just need some truth, to know if God is there, to know if He is all-knowing, because the way I see it is that there like no possible way to know everything, that most of knowledge is subjective and like how does God know everything?

I know Iím going to get a lot of, ďoh you just have to believe/have faithĒ answers but I need some substance.

As I see that life has either no meaning or either a lot of questions. Iím just a person with so many questions.

This is a restless period of my life-no sleep, stress, bags under my eyes, I feel like something dark, lethargic, and very melancholy.

Iím seventeen now. Any help is greatly appreciated.


What a great post! Thank you for your honesty! I pray that you find what you are looking for and expect that you will.

Did you know that you can talk to God about anything? That is (at least for me) easier said than done. I have talked to God about my unbelief, my lack of love for him, my uncomfortable feelings of the name Jesus Christ, my specific sins, my feelings of lonliness or emptyness, my fears that he is not real, my fears that I am too bad to be saved, or that my faith is not real enough? He has been so kind and loving that he put people in front of me to help me on my journey. That led to the word, and finding a good church. I wish I could tell you that I no longer ever struggle, but sometimes I do, but now I have faith and hope, that it will get better...and it does. I would not want my old life back, the one that excluded God.

Would you take a small step towards faith? Would you get on your knees and ask God to show you the way and help you to be observant of the things he sends your way? (I actually had a hard time doing this, but did so about 22 years ago. Best thing I have ever done.)

God Bless you and yours.

mcgyver
Jan 8th 2009, 02:10 PM
Hi Truthfaith...

There is a great promise given by God in the Bible:

And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. (Jeremiah 29:13)

Let share something with you, if I may...a true story.

I came to know Jesus when I was in my 30s; and with less than 90 days as a Christian I found myself in combat as a Senior NCO with the 82d Abn Div.

Prior to the launch of the ground assault into Iraq during the first Gulf War, my unit, an anti-tank platoon, was forward deployed near the border.

I had just finished walking the trace about 0230 one morning, when I heard a couple of young soldiers talking about God, what might happen, etc., (a condition that often happens when the specter of imminent death looms on the horizon)...When I heard one soldier say: "Who the Hell is God to tell me what I should and shouldn't do"...I remember his words to this day.

We got to talking, and after a bit I heard myself tell him that it was written in the book of Jeremiah that if he'd seek God with all his heart, he'd find Him.

Now at the time, I wasn't even sure there was a book of Jeremiah...much less what was written in it (less than 90 days as a Christian, remember...)

Anyway, as we got ready to shift positions a couple of days later, this young paratrooper came to me and said with tears just pouring down his face: "Sergeant ****, I did what you told me to do...I went out into the desert last night and told God that 'I don't even know if you're real, but if you are, let me know'".

And God spoke to the heart of this young warrior, and I had the great privilege of leading this man to faith in Jesus Christ.

God will make Himself known to you if you will ask Him in sincerity to do so...If you are really seeking Him, if you really want Him to...He is faithful to answer you.

But you've got to be ready to accept the answer when it comes...and therein lies the crux of the matter:

Are you truly seeking Him?

HisLeast
Jan 8th 2009, 02:18 PM
Greetings TF,

Life sometimes feels like a bad dream doesn't it? Two books of the Bible talk extensively about this. The authors of both Job and Ecclesiastes both lament on the heavy burden of life. Why do the wicked prosper? Why do the righteous suffer? What is righteousness anyway? Why bother? Is it all just vanity? And they aren't asking the questions as some vague philosophical experiment. Here are Godly men LAMENTING. There's a certain amount of passion in that.

The good news is that both those books also show balance. They attest to the purpose of righteousness and the authority of God. They're both fairly short books, so I'd encourage you to read them if you've got a Bible handy.

Now... how do we know there is a God? Probably one of the most asked questions in history. I don't take my answer for granted, and I can deeply sympathize with your desire for a substantive answer. I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to post 6 links for you to videos by a man named Ravi Zacharias. He is a Christian apologist who's mission is providing the academic and substantive proofs that the hearts of people like you and I long for.

Ravi Zacharias - The Existence of God: Part1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id2Ik4whVr8), Part2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeF62v3b3BM&feature=related), Part3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwQnXOl2e9Q&feature=related), Part4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdQ7feXPou4&feature=related), Part5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6xm6aGtXss&feature=related), Part6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhfNZR75r6k&feature=related)

These should at least give you some substance to ponder.

Blessings in your search, friend.

moonglow
Jan 8th 2009, 02:45 PM
moonglow, thanks for the video. It cheered me up.

But I also want to know if you have more links...

Glad the video cheered you up...here is another one:

Father's Love Letter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIspSTEHM2U&feature=PlayList&p=A3F05B0AFECC5335&index=6)

More information links:

Answers in Genesis (http://www.answersingenesis.org/)

CARM (http://www.carm.org/) (The Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry) Has an easier more simple approach to some of the harder questions but can get more indepth in certain areas.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/
A Christian think tank.

This is for those that want to do the really indepth studies on certain things in the bible. His resource list is huge! He doesn't refer to Christian only books to come to his conclusions on any studies either. This may not be what you are looking for right now as its not about outside evidence for the bible..but it may be something you could use down the road.

The Proof of the Bible (http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/697)
The BIBLE—Superstition or AUTHORITY?
Did you ever stop to PROVE whether the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God?

HAVE YOU ever stopped to really prove whether or not the Bible is divinely inspired by a Creator?

I am going to give you the proof. And I am going to tell the skeptics how to disprove the Bible, if it's not inspired, and how to disprove the very existence of God, IF THERE IS NO GOD.


Extra-Biblical Historical Evidence for the LIFE, DEATH, and RESURRECTION of JESUS (http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/extrabiblical.htm)

God bless

ServantofTruth
Jan 8th 2009, 03:49 PM
Would you read 2 Chronicles Chapters 34-35 for me? It's about a very young man, Josiah, who became king when he was 8! 18 years after becoming king, some of his officials & the the high priest find and bring him the Book of God's Law.

The wounderful thing is he responded to it. Perhaps you'll find the whole story encouraging and a positive reason to read the bible regularly but also to respond to it?

Last night I was listening to a pastor, not at my main church, saying God's work begins when you leave here, not while we're worshipping & praising together. That is when the Spirit should become active and show you what God wants you individually to do. Recognise the gifts of the Spirit you have recieved and use them!

You need to stop seeing yourself as seperate and start seeing all the people around you. Go to a local church or 2 or 5! Join in the service, but also get to know the people.

When I help the flower ladies, I've got no interest in flower arranging! But I can go up the ladder, carry heavy things and mend their shed. When I take an elderly lady shopping, she blesses me more with her faith and life stories. Visit that sick person you've been told about, even if you've never met them. Visit the bereaved, dying and sick. Believe me a little effort on our part and the reward is in this life, almost immediatly is huge. Love and friendship. SofTy.

TexasBeliever
Jan 8th 2009, 05:23 PM
Hi TrueFaith

I understand. I also feel that life is more burdensome than joyful and will be happy when it's over. I have often wondered how I can continue to feel this way since becoming a Christian many years ago.
Guess I'm just not an optimistic person by nature. Combine this with an empty marriage (still tuffing it out after 29 years though) and losing the one optimistic person in my life four years ago.
I have to force myself to go through the motions of life and like I said, "just tough it out."
I came to belief in the Lord by reading scripture, no one could force it on me. I have to say that one other book also convinced me that Jesus is Who He said He was, and that was "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis.
It's a great read, as Lewis was an athiest who set out to prove that there is no God.
Just try to do the best you can in your life. Not everyone is born to be Little Miss Merry Sunshine! :lol:

BrckBrln
Jan 8th 2009, 06:34 PM
I just need some truth, to know if God is there, to know if He is all-knowing, because the way I see it is that there like no possible way to know everything, that most of knowledge is subjective and like how does God know everything?

The other people in this thread have given good answers for you to know that God is indeed there. Once you realize that your other questions will fall into place.

Does God know everything?

By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 1 John 3:19-20

How does God know everything?

God knows everything...because He created everything!

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor? Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid? For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. Romans 11:33-36

And since God has comprehensive knowledge of everything, since He Himself created everything, it follows that we as humans, that is, created beings in the image of God, cannot know comprehensively as God does but we can know truly as the Scriptures teach.

TruthFaith
Jan 8th 2009, 08:17 PM
what about philosophy and things that you don't neccesarily create but are more like ideas and CONCEPTS

Does God know those kinds of things?


I'm frustrated on a daily basis by some of these things and I wonder if He knows how philosophically screwed up I am.

This whole personal relationship sounds kind of crazy to me.

Also, is life going to be joyful (with-out the trials and tribulations included) for Christians?

And why does God make it so hard to believe in Him?

TruthFaith
Jan 8th 2009, 08:30 PM
I know now that God is the creator, but just because you create does not neccesarily mean that you know everything like philosophical ideas etc.

moonglow
Jan 8th 2009, 09:16 PM
[QUOTE=TruthFaith;1935935]what about philosophy and things that you don't neccesarily create but are more like ideas and CONCEPTS

Does God know those kinds of things?
As a matter of fact He does:

1 Corinthians 1:19-21 (New Living Translation)

19 As the Scriptures say,

ďI will destroy the wisdom of the wise
and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.Ē

20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the worldís brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22 It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23 So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say itís all nonsense.

24 But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and Godís weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.

26 Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the worldís eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you. 27 Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. 28 God chose things despised by the world,[h] things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. 29 As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.

This link is a good read:
Pascal's Wager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager)


I'm frustrated on a daily basis by some of these things and I wonder if He knows how philosophically screwed up I am.

Since He knows everything, I would image that yea, He knows what you are caught up in too...

This whole personal relationship sounds kind of crazy to me.


Also, is life going to be joyful (with-out the trials and tribulations included) for Christians?

Christ said we would all have trails and tribulations...but our peace and joy is found in Him. That doesn't mean we are 'happy' when bad things happen...it means we have peace and joy In Him...literally. Meaning when life hurts...we can go to Him and be joyful in our thoughts with Him...in our relationship with Him. Its like lets say you argue with co-workers all day...are really upset and hurt...then you go home where you are loved and welcomed. You can relax, unwind, be yourself, not have to worry about someone saying mean hurtful things to do...know you are loved. That is what is it like when you have a relationship with Christ.




And why does God make it so hard to believe in Him?

What makes you think its Him that is causing you to have a hard time believing in Him? Just the fact you think He is causing this problem proves you DO believe in Him...ever thought about that?

God bless

TruthFaith
Jan 8th 2009, 10:21 PM
Thanks, whenever I read the bible I have this feeling of doubt and I don't want it to wreck my thought process.

So my theory is that it is the devil, I am not sure. But I just wish I can be happy if God wants me to be happy. I guess I'm really lethargic for a reason and I can't seem to enjoy anything because of how complex things are going.

TexasBeliever
Jan 8th 2009, 11:11 PM
what about philosophy and things that you don't neccesarily create but are more like ideas and CONCEPTS

Does God know those kinds of things?


I'm frustrated on a daily basis by some of these things and I wonder if He knows how philosophically screwed up I am.

This whole personal relationship sounds kind of crazy to me.

Also, is life going to be joyful (with-out the trials and tribulations included) for Christians?

And why does God make it so hard to believe in Him?

Sweetheart ( I can call you that because I'm old) God knows everything. There is even a scripture that says that "There is nothing new under the sun." Meaning God has heard and seen it all before.

God is many things. First and foremost He is perfect in everything. Perfect in love, knowledge, judgement, justice, holiness, etc.
Concerning us, He said that the wages of sin is death. That is an absolute just like light travels 186,000 miles per second.
We do not have the ability to take our own sins away to avoid the penalty. God could not go back on His word of "The soul that sins will die", so justice for this had to be met.
He left the glory of heaven and robed Himself in flesh to become one of us and take the penalty of sin upon Himself to satisfy justice.
The Almighty, the Creator of the universe, to leave His glory behind, become one of His creatures and die a horrific death,
if this is not love I don't know what is.

Philosophy has screwed up more people that you can imagine. My husband is swimming in philosophy and yet he dosen't believe in his Redeemer.
Someone once said that there is more truth in a bottle of wine than in all of man's philosophies.
It is terribly overrated.

TruthFaith
Jan 8th 2009, 11:38 PM
Yeah, I guess.

But I am still wondering if God knows like alll (like even philosophical material) with philosophy; I can see all of life's problems and I am wondering like how is life good?

Why I asked my pastor this he saif," everything is good with-out sin" or something to that extent but it wasn't even relating to sin.

moonglow
Jan 9th 2009, 04:11 AM
Yeah, I guess.

But I am still wondering if God knows like alll (like even philosophical material) with philosophy; I can see all of life's problems and I am wondering like how is life good?

Why I asked my pastor this he saif," everything is good with-out sin" or something to that extent but it wasn't even relating to sin.

Life in many ways isn't good actually. The reason for that is we make ourselves miserable...we do it to ourselves and each other. It may be you have reached the age where you are starting to see the world as it really is. When we are children...first learning, everything is exciting and new! Then when we start hitting those teenage years, the blinders come off, so to speak. Things are no longer new and exciting...we start seeing the dirt so to speak.

the bible is extremely complex and addresses so many different topics! Science, medical issues, space, nature, the human condition, and yes even philosophy. Given your state of mind I would like to see you read Ecclesiastes...I think you will be able to relate to it...this is written by Solomon, the wisest man that ever lived. He asked God to give him wisdom so God did. Sadly he didn't stay under the grace of God but later ended up becoming a very wicked man...whether his wisdom caused this pride, I don't know. But he started out as a great King for Israel and did many amazing things. Because of his wisdom he also became very rich too...but his riches and his wives didn't fill the emptiness in him. He knew there could be no real joy in life..without God. So when he betrayed God by allowing pagan temples to be put up out of request from some of his pagan wives...he became pretty stupid in that sense..

Anyway read that...read it as if you were reading any other book..so the doubts don't distract you. And yes of course satan always wants us to doubt.

God bless

TexasBeliever
Jan 9th 2009, 02:17 PM
Yeah, I guess.

But I am still wondering if God knows like alll (like even philosophical material) with philosophy; I can see all of life's problems and I am wondering like how is life good?

Why I asked my pastor this he saif," everything is good with-out sin" or something to that extent but it wasn't even relating to sin.


To answer your first question, "does God know all?", I will paraphrase from Job Chapter 38: (This is God speaking)
-----"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
-----Who decided the dimensions of it or stretched the measuring line across it?
-----Who pent up the sea behind closed doors when I marked the boundary it was not to cross?
-----I have given orders to the morning and sent the dawn to it's post.
-----I have journeyed all the way to the sources of the sea and walked where the abyss is deepest.
-----I have visited the place where the snow is kept, and where the hail is stored up.
-----I have fastened the harness of the Pleiades and untied Orion's bands.
-----My voice can carry as far as the clouds and make the pent-up waters do my bidding.
-----Lightning flashes at my command.
-----I can cast one look at the proud and bring them low and strike down the wicked where they stand. (chapter 40)
God also created men. He knows all their thoughts and their philosophies. He said, "Before I formed you in the womb, I KNEW you."

To answer your second question, God made the world perfect in the beginning. But thanks to mankind there is a curse upon the world. This curse will not be lifted until the Lord comes back and renews the earth.
The Lord has removed the curse of sin and death from us by His work on the cross but this will not be manifested on the earth until later. Bad things still happen in this world and we must still pass through physical death, but our dead bodies will be renewed and also the face of the earth.
For now, light and dark, good and evil coexist together but upon His return He will seperate the light from the darkness, the good from the evil and only light and good will remain. Life is good, in the sense that we know the bad things will cease to exist in the end and we will one day be perfect and happy and the world will be perfect and peaceful. God has His own plan about this and everything will happen according to His schedule.
One other great thing is that one day when we are with Him, we shall know EVERYTHING. We shall have ALL of our questions answered. As the scriptures say, right now "We walk by faith---not by sight." One day "we shall know, even as we are known."

TruthFaith
Jan 9th 2009, 11:41 PM
Life in many ways isn't good actually.


Well, when you say that; does that mean that life is not good because of sin or.. because of philosophical ideas?

TruthFaith
Jan 10th 2009, 03:08 PM
is it because of sin or because of philosophicaL ideas?

moonglow
Jan 10th 2009, 03:13 PM
Well, when you say that; does that mean that life is not good because of sin or.. because of philosophical ideas?

Both...I suppose. Though I never had problems with philosophical ideas causing me confusion or making me feel depressed like it appears to be doing to you. I enjoyed them...but it may have been I didn't make them apart of my life..my way of thinking but for short periods of time because once I tested them again real life, they didn't hold up. While some might sound rational to start with in the end they really aren't logically. Logic is very important to me and I spot illogical thinking pretty quickly...this is one of the reasons I suppose I like the bible so much...its logical. God is logical. If something sound illogical ..a passage or some story in the bible I study it more indepth until I understand..then I see the logic. This world is full of illogical and irrational people...we ARE walking contradictions much of the time! Just look at human history....shoot just watch the news!

I get frustrated with our government so much of the time simply due to the lack of common sense I see happening there on a daily bases.

If you want too...I would be glad to listen to what philosophical ideas you are dwelling on now and causing you so many problems. They can be discuss on here and in light of reason...especially from a bibical point of view, be shown for what they really are.

As it says in Ecclesiastes..life is meaningless...its not 'good' ..

Without God.

Its God that gives our lives a purpose and when it becomes 'good'.

Ecclesiastes 1

1 These are the words of the Teacher, King Davidís son, who ruled in Jerusalem.

Everything Is Meaningless

2 ďEverything is meaningless,Ē says the Teacher, ďcompletely meaningless!Ē

3 What do people get for all their hard work under the sun? 4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth never changes. 5 The sun rises and the sun sets, then hurries around to rise again. 6 The wind blows south, and then turns north. Around and around it goes, blowing in circles. 7 Rivers run into the sea, but the sea is never full. Then the water returns again to the rivers and flows out again to the sea. 8 Everything is wearisome beyond description. No matter how much we see, we are never satisfied. No matter how much we hear, we are not content.

9 History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new. 10 Sometimes people say, ďHere is something new!Ē But actually it is old; nothing is ever truly new. 11 We donít remember what happened in the past, and in future generations, no one will remember what we are doing now.

You really need to read the rest...http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes;&version=51;

TruthFaith
Jan 10th 2009, 06:08 PM
I find the bible illogical when it comes to wisdom when it says wisdom is painful:

Ecclesiastes 1:18 (http://bible.cc/ecclesiastes/2-1.htm): Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

And then somewhere I looked it said that isdom is good.


So wisdom is painful and makes you sadder?

Athanasius
Jan 10th 2009, 06:36 PM
I find the bible illogical when it comes to wisdom when it says wisdom is painful:

Ecclesiastes 1:18: Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

And then somewhere I looked it said that isdom is good.

So wisdom is painful and makes you sadder?

Wisdom is good; there's no contradiction between claiming wisdom is good but that at the same time, there may be much grief, sadness and pain in increasing in knowledge in wisdom. In fact, it's quite true.

It's like what they say about love; you don't truly understand it until you've had your heart broken. Even in this you've grown in wisdom and understanding but you've experienced the pain of a broken heart in the "adventure" of love. Not all wisdom and knowledge brings grief and pain, but a lot of it - especially what you experience - has the potential to.

tango
Jan 10th 2009, 06:47 PM
Hey TruthFaith, you've got some good questions in there. I think the biggest evidence for the existence of God is all around us. Just look at yourself, the living things all around, and ask how everything got there.

When we see all the living things around us we need to believe that either they were designed by some kind of intelligent designer, or they were not. I wrote an article in a blog entry here to discuss why I believe, on the balance of probability, that the existence of living things implies the existence of some kind of designer.

You can see the blog entry here:
http://bibleforums.org/blog.php?b=1155

TruthFaith
Jan 10th 2009, 07:32 PM
Wisdom is good; there's no contradiction between claiming wisdom is good but that at the same time, there may be much grief, sadness and pain in increasing in knowledge in wisdom. In fact, it's quite true.

It's like what they say about love; you don't truly understand it until you've had your heart broken. Even in this you've grown in wisdom and understanding but you've experienced the pain of a broken heart in the "adventure" of love. Not all wisdom and knowledge brings grief and pain, but a lot of it - especially what you experience - has the potential to.

so you are putting wisdom with experience?

But I thought with God, there is no pain and with-out sin?

Athanasius
Jan 10th 2009, 07:41 PM
so you are putting wisdom with experience?

But I thought with God, there is no pain and with-out sin?

Not all wisdom with experience, but yes, one way we become wiser is through our experiences. I'm not entirely sure what you mean about "with God"? Surely God teaches and uses experiences (think Job), and those experiences can be hard.

TruthFaith
Jan 10th 2009, 08:20 PM
well, what I mean is that everything God created was good and that wisdom is not supposed to be painful.

Athanasius
Jan 10th 2009, 08:28 PM
well, what I mean is that everything God created was good and that wisdom is not supposed to be painful.

Sure, in Genesis 1:31 everything was good, then sin entered the world in Genesis 3. One of the noticable results of sin was increased pain. Be careful what you're saying though, scripture doesn't say all wisdom is painful.

moonglow
Jan 10th 2009, 10:15 PM
I find the bible illogical when it comes to wisdom when it says wisdom is painful:

Ecclesiastes 1:18 (http://bible.cc/ecclesiastes/2-1.htm): Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

And then somewhere I looked it said that isdom is good.


So wisdom is painful and makes you sadder?

Ok look you need to consider who was doing the writing in these passages and why...as I said Solomon became a very wicked man. Look in our world now at those that used their intelligence to gain great power and wealth..they did it through shrewdly...they didn't care who they hurt obtaining these things. Then look at someone just as intelligent but used their wisdom with kindness and did great things to help others. While Solomon started out being a great benefit to the Israel as their king and did so much to benefit their lives...it didn't stay that way. He grew selfish and self centered...that was his choice though...so then he used his wisdom in not so good ways and actually did alot of dumb things like allowing pagan temples to be built...while it may have appeared to be a smart thing to do in making the people happy, it was a slap in the face to God who had given him his wisdom to start with.

This link might help you understand the different parts of the bible as you read them.

What is the Bible? (http://www.carm.org/seek/Bible.htm)

The Bible contains many different styles of writing such as poetry, narration, fiction1, history, law, and prophecy and must be interpreted in context of those styles. It is the source of the Christian religion in that the Bible contains the words of God and how the Christian is to apply the words of God to his life.(read the rest at the link)

God bless

TruthFaith
Jan 10th 2009, 11:42 PM
I don't know why I feel this way... but it feels like there is something horribly wrong but how do I get a sense of peace?

tango
Jan 10th 2009, 11:56 PM
I don't know why I feel this way... but it feels like there is something horribly wrong but how do I get a sense of peace?

If you're like me that horribly wrong feeling is what happens when God is calling louder and louder, and you're still resisting it.

I got to the point where life just felt like a total waste of time before finally conceding that God was right and I was wrong.

TruthFaith
Jan 11th 2009, 01:00 AM
Even though I have that feeling- of life's emptiness; it is not that. It is that there are so many areas in life with no solution or a terrible answer and nature seems apathetic.

moonglow
Jan 11th 2009, 04:49 PM
Even though I have that feeling- of life's emptiness; it is not that. It is that there are so many areas in life with no solution or a terrible answer and nature seems apathetic.

We need a little more information...I really don't know what you are thinking...what areas in life that have no solution or terrible answers? How is nature apathetic? :confused

I know all of us would like to help but at this point we can only guess what you are talking about. It almost sounds like to me you are suffering from depression....

Do you think you are depressed? Depression can be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain and cause distorted thinking....something you cannot control by yourself...sometimes depression is caused by a death in the family, a major life changing event, etc. Its common though for teenagers to be depressed...when we are depressed it hard to make that connection with God...

TruthFaith
Jan 11th 2009, 06:20 PM
Yeah, I'm depressed but I try to find through it.

I don't know; when someone dies nature doesn't realy care, there is the slightest ripple in the ways things go and it seems that nothing really matters.

moonglow
Jan 12th 2009, 03:23 PM
Yeah, I'm depressed but I try to find through it.

I don't know; when someone dies nature doesn't realy care, there is the slightest ripple in the ways things go and it seems that nothing really matters.

Nature isn't a thinking being though so how could it possibly care?

You need to watch that movie, 'It's a Wonderful life'...shows a man that gets himself into some terrible trouble and wishes he had never been born...so God sends an angel to grant his wish and then he goes back into his town seeing how life would have been without him. He had saved his brother from drowning when they were both kids....his brother had broke through some ice on a pond one winter...since he had never been born, his brother died instead and because his brother didn't grow up and go fight in a war...he wasn't there to save a bunch of soldiers trapped by the enemy...so they all died.

And other people he had helped...their lives were completely different since he hadn't been born to help them change it and have a better life...their lives were terrible...sadder, worse, because he hadn't been there when they needed a friend..

Its an old movie...black and white...but its a timeless story.

Each of our lives is like a stone thrown into a pond and causes a ripple affect...each one affecting someone else's life...even though that life might be on the other side of the pond and we are never aware how our 'ripple' affected them. Without that ripple..the other ripples are changed..changing the whole ripple affect in the pond...

What I am saying is each life IS important...no matter how briefly it might be here.

God bless

TruthFaith
Jan 14th 2009, 07:48 PM
But that is why I am sad. We can't know about the we cause or how much change we can cause. If we knew everything, then there would be no more curiousity, if we don't know everything; then there is a feeling of inadequacy in all of life's situations.

I mean, its these kinds of things that make me sad and curse my parents for giving birth to me.

I guess life is not perfect but I just want to know how to get through it all.

moonglow
Jan 14th 2009, 08:04 PM
But that is why I am sad. We can't know about the we cause or how much change we can cause. If we knew everything, then there would be no more curiousity, if we don't know everything; then there is a feeling of inadequacy in all of life's situations.

I mean, its these kinds of things that make me sad and curse my parents for giving birth to me.

I guess life is not perfect but I just want to know how to get through it all.

it makes you sad simply because you don't know how your life affects others? That doesn't make very much sense. Sounds like the depression is talking here and you need to get on medication...seriously...at least see a therapist cause this could get worse for you..which I would hate to see. I have been there, I know! I know how messed up our thinking gets and I regretted ever being born too! That is what depression does...it causes hopelessness ...and we think things will never get better....but that isn't true. They can get better if you want them too. Go talk to your parents and tell them you need help getting through this...ok? While you still are able to do that much.

I am praying for you!

God bless

badzy
Jan 23rd 2009, 04:35 AM
Hi seventeener!

Do u know the quantum physics theory (http://www.symmecon.com)
?

you know what believin in God is like believing in science...in science, there is always a halftruth and deception..what i mean is...if you want ti believe in God's existence, then cherish your life and dont blame him for your failures or your burdens.