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JesusMySavior
Jan 9th 2009, 07:10 AM
I've caught in the wind that Netanyahu is planning to rebuild David's tabernacle and soon the temple. They've already laid the plan out and it may be in the works very very soon. He feels "God has chosen him to do this work". The Sannhedrin have approved the plan.

Read Amos 9:9-11 and Acts 15:16.


I feel this is one of the very final steps before the tribulation era. I've known some people who have said "Regardless of the signs, I won't believe that we are close to the tribulation until someone is rebuilding the jewish temple". Well here you go.



Glory! Jesus is coming :)

jeffweeder
Jan 9th 2009, 09:59 AM
Hi

Where did you read this? Do you have a link?

Thanks.

godsgirl
Jan 9th 2009, 12:03 PM
I was just telling my dh last night-this has to be soon-the temple being rebuilt I mean-the tribulation is fast approaching.

wombat
Jan 9th 2009, 03:09 PM
I've caught in the wind that Netanyahu is planning to rebuild David's tabernacle and soon the temple. They've already laid the plan out and it may be in the works very very soon. He feels "God has chosen him to do this work". The Sannhedrin have approved the plan. Read Amos 9:9-11 and Acts 15:16. I feel this is one of the very final steps before the tribulation era. I've known some people who have said "Regardless of the signs, I won't believe that we are close to the tribulation until someone is rebuilding the jewish temple". Well here you go. Glory! Jesus is coming :)
Hi, JesusMySavior! I have heard the same thing, though I don't have a news article or anything to provide for backing that up. I think I heard it on a Christian TV news program recently. I've also heard in the past that Netanyahu believes he will be the prime minister of Israel at the time the Messiah comes. Is there anyone reading this thread who might provide a link to some information about this? If it is indeed true that he is planning to rebuild the temple, we could soon witness an incredible fulfillment of Bible prophecy!

threebigrocks
Jan 9th 2009, 03:16 PM
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44672

This is nothing new. The article above talks about the rebuilding of the temple. I found an article a year ago that an architectural firm was being sought and the new Sanhedrin was pushing to start prefabricating as soon as possible. At that time, the articles used in temple worship were already being made. Right now I can't find that first article I found, I believe it was written in 2005 also. I've posted it here before though.

Thing is - the Dome on the Rock still sits there. It's in the way. Things need to be brought into place for construction to take place and do it biblically. Nothing can happen until that is resolved. And, let's remember that the antichrist sits down in that new temple at it's completion.

Bethany67
Jan 9th 2009, 03:28 PM
Have they found a red heifer yet? I know there have been a couple over the years that have either died or been disqualified.

musicmiss
Jan 9th 2009, 04:14 PM
whats the thing about a red heifer?

third hero
Jan 9th 2009, 04:24 PM
From what I have heard, they sacrificed a red heifer last Passover. But then again, I didn't actually see the article.

Anyway, as far as Temple plans are concerned, my sources have found that they have discovered that the actual spot of the Dome of the Rock is not on the ground where the "holy of Holies" is located. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3362927,00.html It is where the "Outer Court" is located, making the possibility of the temple's being rebuilt alongside of the Dome a big possibility. Even though plans are not made yet to build the temple alongside the Dome, I do know that the Pharisaic leaders are negotiating with the Arab religious leaders in that area, and one of the results were the Rabbis were able to go to the temple for a brief moment last year.

Although there aren't any new information right now from that front, it does not surprise me that Netanyahu would support the rebuilding of the temple. He has been militaristic concerning Israel for a long time now, and I am willing to bet that anything that he can do to push out the Muslim powers out of power in Israel. Now that there is a way to rebuild the temple without destroying the dome of the rock, Revelation 11 comes sharply into focus, with the Temple being rebuilt without having the outer court, which would have been given to the Gentiles. Stay tuned folks, it's about to get interesting.

Bethany67
Jan 9th 2009, 04:31 PM
I was just thinking - the Temple should be rebuilt on Mount Moriah, yes? What are the scriptures supporting this? Some people think this is the spot in Jerusalem where the Dome of the Rock now stands, which presents rather a problem unless there's something like an earthquake or other catastrophe to remove it.

But Abraham went into the wilderness to sacrifice Isaac rather than to an existing city, and Jerusalem (Salem) was an existing city at the time with a priest (Melchizedek). So it possible that the Moriah of Abraham and the intended rebuilding site isn't the mount in Jerusalem, but one elsewhere? Could it in fact linguistically be Moreh near Shechem where Abraham built an altar in Gen 12:6? The Samaritans believed (still believe) Isaac was nearly sacrificed on Mount Gerizim which is near Shechem, close to Nablus on the West Bank, and not in Jerusalem. But on the other hand, if it's built anywhere but Jerusalem, it won't be accepted by the Jews.

Just throwing out ideas here.

895rider
Jan 9th 2009, 04:43 PM
I believe it was Jack Van Impe program on christian tv who said that Netanyahu wants the temple rebuilt. I heard it this past week on tv.

JesusMySavior
Jan 9th 2009, 05:37 PM
I believe it was Jack Van Impe program on christian tv who said that Netanyahu wants the temple rebuilt. I heard it this past week on tv.

I heard it on there too.

moonglow
Jan 9th 2009, 05:50 PM
Where in the bible does it say a third temple is to be built though?

I have heard about this most of my life too. Fernis our residence Jew, said they don't know where the original temple was to have it rebuilt...he doesn't expect it to happen. I sure hope not! Image what a huge slap in the face this would be to Jesus...starting sacrifices again. I especially don't understand the Christians that support this over there and are trying to get it done, knowing full well what it will do to the Jews...lead them to slaughter basically...:(

God bless

third hero
Jan 9th 2009, 06:03 PM
Where in the bible does it say a third temple is to be built though?

I have heard about this most of my life too. Fernis our residence Jew, said they don't know where the original temple was to have it rebuilt...he doesn't expect it to happen. I sure hope not! Image what a huge slap in the face this would be to Jesus...starting sacrifices again. I especially don't understand the Christians that support this over there and are trying to get it done, knowing full well what it will do to the Jews...lead them to slaughter basically...:(

God bless

Personally, I want the Jews to be free of their blinders. From my research, the time when the Jews are free will end up being when the Abomination of Desolation happens. (Romans 11:25-26, Revelation 12). And you are absolutely right, moonglow. It would lead many of the Jews to slaughter, especially because of what the Abomination will do to cause the desolation of Jerusalem. It truly is a horrible experience that Israel will end up having to face, but I believe, like the Great Tribulation, it is necessary for the coming of the Lord to happen.

It really baffles me as to how some believers are egging the Jewsd on to rebuild the Temple, beause it is a death sentence to them when they do.

Even with all of that said, I believe that the 3rd temple has to be built... although calling it "the third temple" would be incaccurate. Having a temple dedicated to God without having the Spirit of God there is nothing more than a painting on a wall. It has all of the appearances of the real thing, but it is nothing more than a picture. A temple will be built. They will call it the Temple of God. It will look like the Temples of old sans the Outer court, and God will not be in it. (Revelation 11:1-2). The Beast will stand in the Holy of Holies replica, and he will make himself an abomination by proclaiming himself to be God. And after that moment, the Blinders wil fall from the eyes of the Jews, and they will have to run for their lives as the newly created abomination will send out the order to slay all in that city.

JesusMySavior
Jan 9th 2009, 07:50 PM
Personally, I want the Jews to be free of their blinders. From my research, the time when the Jews are free will end up being when the Abomination of Desolation happens. (Romans 11:25-26, Revelation 12). And you are absolutely right, moonglow. It would lead many of the Jews to slaughter, especially because of what the Abomination will do to cause the desolation of Jerusalem. It truly is a horrible experience that Israel will end up having to face, but I believe, like the Great Tribulation, it is necessary for the coming of the Lord to happen.

It really baffles me as to how some believers are egging the Jewsd on to rebuild the Temple, beause it is a death sentence to them when they do.

Even with all of that said, I believe that the 3rd temple has to be built... although calling it "the third temple" would be incaccurate. Having a temple dedicated to God without having the Spirit of God there is nothing more than a painting on a wall. It has all of the appearances of the real thing, but it is nothing more than a picture. A temple will be built. They will call it the Temple of God. It will look like the Temples of old sans the Outer court, and God will not be in it. (Revelation 11:1-2). The Beast will stand in the Holy of Holies replica, and he will make himself an abomination by proclaiming himself to be God. And after that moment, the Blinders wil fall from the eyes of the Jews, and they will have to run for their lives as the newly created abomination will send out the order to slay all in that city.


Many Christians do not care about the jews because they are foolish and don't understand what the jews have to do with anything. They forget that salvation came from the jews, in the lineage of david.

I am anxious to see it happen because it means another sign has been given and Christ is ever closer to sweep us off our feet. I don't desire to see the jews slaughtered more than the next Christian, but they have rejected their savior for 2,000 years and since they are sowing to the wind, they will reap the whirlwind. May God continue to open their eyes in these final days.

From what I have understood and believed for the past 5 years of studying and reading Bible prophecy, the rebuilding of the temple was going to be the last major sign before the antichrist made his official appearance.

It's all going so fast it's almost blinding. But I have peace in my soul and though I mess up, God is faithful to restore His servants. :) Amen come Lord Jesus!

mizzdy
Jan 9th 2009, 10:57 PM
whats the thing about a red heifer?

In a nutshell the rabbis need the blood and ashes of a red heifer to bless the temple. That problem has been solved the temple autorities commissioned an American company to create the heifer and then bring it back to Israel to reproduce in the land.

threebigrocks
Jan 10th 2009, 12:20 AM
Where in the bible does it say a third temple is to be built though?

I have heard about this most of my life too. Fernis our residence Jew, said they don't know where the original temple was to have it rebuilt...he doesn't expect it to happen. I sure hope not! Image what a huge slap in the face this would be to Jesus...starting sacrifices again. I especially don't understand the Christians that support this over there and are trying to get it done, knowing full well what it will do to the Jews...lead them to slaughter basically...:(

God bless

But that is what God has established. It must happen. We don't like it, but we must remember that God's plan is perfect, He is Holy, righteous, just and merciful.

As to another temple:
(Bold mind)

Daniel 9
26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Can't really have offering and sacrafice, per Jewish law, without a temple, and a wing of it cannot exist for the antichrist to set up his abomination of desolation unless there is a temple with a wing in it to do so.

Cyberseeker
Jan 10th 2009, 01:35 AM
From what I have understood and believed for the past 5 years of studying and reading Bible prophecy, the rebuilding of the temple was going to be the last major sign before the antichrist made his official appearance.


Has it ever occurred to folks that the abomination "standing where it ought not" is the altar of sacrifice? (He that readeth, let him understand) And Antichrist is none other than the high priest - appointed in blasphemous defiance of the new covenant?

Yes, I believe it will be built, :cry: and God help the Jews that enter, and those Christians who clap their hands in approval.

Cyber

JesusMySavior
Jan 10th 2009, 04:15 AM
Has it ever occurred to folks that the abomination "standing where it ought not" is the altar of sacrifice? (He that readeth, let him understand) And Antichrist is none other than the high priest - appointed in blasphemous defiance of the new covenant?

Yes, I believe it will be built, :cry: and God help the Jews that enter, and those Christians who clap their hands in approval.

Cyber


I've heard this theory as well, but it doesn't add up to me.

Jerome1
Jan 10th 2009, 04:36 AM
I was watching a program the other day and Grant Jeffery said Israel was in possession of the ark of the covenant. He said something like the Israeli government had bought it from the Ethiopians?:o

I'm not saying i believed him, but it was the first time i'd heard it. He said he knew independent witnesses who could verify his claims.

He also said the two witnesses would be Moses and Elijah, as apposed to Enoch and Elijah.

My heart's Desire
Jan 10th 2009, 04:47 AM
This is a simple way I look at it. God is finished with Israel as a Nation....? (Yet Israel is a Nation against all odds on her land) God's Covenant with Israel is over....? (Yet all nations are reeling because of her and the Land)
There's not going to be another Temple...? ( Yet, an Institute is taking great pains and money to recreate the items for the Temple and for the Priests) etc.
This is either wishful thinking or coincidence.....No, I think it is neither. I think it is foretold by God.
These are my thoughts..if these things are not to come to pass "why is there a Nation called Israel"? Why are Nations in tumult and all eyes upon her these days? Why are there any who are putting such belief, time and money into a Temple?
As a matter of fact, Why did Saddam try to preserve, recreate Babylon,? Why does the U.S have an embassy in Bagdad on the Tigris now? Just think, if these things were not going to happen, then why does it appear that they could?
If it were not possible then there would be no Israel now, or people wanting the land, or an institute wanting and preparing for a Temple. Sometimes we have to use common sense.

shepherdsword
Jan 10th 2009, 06:09 AM
A major hurdle that I see ahead is the fact that they cannot prove their genealogies. It will be difficult to prove that one is a pure Jew much less from the lineage of Levi. When I ask modern jews about this they say that anyone with the name "Katz" or "Cohen" is considered a levite. However,this will be hard to prove

servantsheart
Jan 10th 2009, 07:47 AM
Is this not the third time for the Temple Mount to be rebuilt? I understood that it had to be rebuilt for this last time before Christ will return. Is this correct?
Thanks, Pat

servantsheart
Jan 10th 2009, 07:51 AM
Has it ever occurred to folks that the abomination "standing where it ought not" is the altar of sacrifice? (He that readeth, let him understand) And Antichrist is none other than the high priest - appointed in blasphemous defiance of the new covenant?

Yes, I believe it will be built, :cry: and God help the Jews that enter, and those Christians who clap their hands in approval.

Cyber

I was under the belief that the Islam's have built atop the Temple and this would be the abomination "standing where it ought not"....just asking...

DIZZY
Jan 10th 2009, 08:01 AM
A major hurdle that I see ahead is the fact that they cannot prove their genealogies. It will be difficult to prove that one is a pure Jew much less from the lineage of Levi. When I ask modern jews about this they say that anyone with the name "Katz" or "Cohen" is considered a levite. However,this will be hard to prove

Hi shepherdsword,

Even though we don't know who the linage of Levi is, the one who's plan has been working before the foundations of the earth, knows who exactly is from the tribe of Levi.

If the plan of God is to work out the way He said it would, why then are we worried, every thing is in God's capable hands.

God will send those of the tribe of Levi to the training session in His appointed time.

jeffweeder
Jan 10th 2009, 08:37 AM
To rebuild a 3rd temple, with the thought that Messiah will dwell in it, is to miss the whole point of what God has already done in our Lord Jesus Christ.
The temple was for God to dwell in, and Jesus did raise it in 3 days. He does dwell in the redeemed, the rebuilt temple made without hands.

third hero
Jan 10th 2009, 09:10 AM
To rebuild a 3rd temple, with the thought that Messiah will dwell in it, is to miss the whole point of what God has already done in our Lord Jesus Christ.
The temple was for God to dwell in, and Jesus did raise it in 3 days. He does dwell in the redeemed, the rebuilt temple made without hands.

It seems to me that the concensus here is that the Temple is to be rebuiilt NOT for the purpose of the Messiah, but for the advent of the Enemy, (Beast, Antichrist, man of sin, etc). No one in here is saying that the Temple will be built for the purpose of the Messiah stepping foot in it and dwelling there. We are talking about the signs befoe the Return of the Lord, and where the rebuilding of the Temple would fit in.

Again, I hate to sound like a broken record, but no one in here is saying anything concerning a connection between the Temple and Lord Jesus except the temple will be one more sign of the Lord's return, in that when it is complete, the Man of sin will stand in the "holy of Holies" and declare himself to be God, becoming the Abomination. His next response to the Jews calling him a blasphemer will be the desolation of Jerusalem, as the Abomination wil order his soldiers to kill every living being in that city.

Now how does that sound like anyone saying that the Temple will be where Lord Jesus will reside?

shepherdsword
Jan 10th 2009, 09:25 AM
Hi shepherdsword,

Even though we don't know who the linage of Levi is, the one who's plan has been working before the foundations of the earth, knows who exactly is from the tribe of Levi.

If the plan of God is to work out the way He said it would, why then are we worried, every thing is in God's capable hands.

God will send those of the tribe of Levi to the training session in His appointed time.


Wouldn't that be a slap in Jesus's face if the Father helped them establish a Levitical priesthood for temple sacrifices after Jesus fulfilled the Melchizedek office?( This of course brings up EZE 46 as well)

third hero
Jan 10th 2009, 10:14 AM
Hi shepherdsword,

Even though we don't know who the linage of Levi is, the one who's plan has been working before the foundations of the earth, knows who exactly is from the tribe of Levi.

If the plan of God is to work out the way He said it would, why then are we worried, every thing is in God's capable hands.

God will send those of the tribe of Levi to the training session in His appointed time.

Then again, Jeffweeder, I could be wrong.....

Sorry... carry on..
going back into my little corner here and laying down... crying softly to myself to my outburst.... silly little me:D

Bethany67
Jan 10th 2009, 11:26 AM
I was watching a program the other day and Grant Jeffery said Israel was in possession of the ark of the covenant. He said something like the Israeli government had bought it from the Ethiopians?:o

I'm not saying i believed him, but it was the first time i'd heard it. He said he knew independent witnesses who could verify his claims.

Really? I know the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has claimed to have it for centuries, at Aksum. Even the Patriarch of the Church has claimed he's not allowed to see it, as there is a permanent guardian. If they have something they think is the Ark, I can't see them giving it up willingly for any amount of money.

Here's an article from the Smithsonian Magazine dated December 2007 by a writer who went to Ethiopia to investigate:

Link (http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Smithsonian+Magazine+|+People+%26+Places+|+K eepers+of+the+Lost+Ark%3F&expire=&urlID=25104449&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smithsonianmag.com%2Fpeople-places%2Fark-covenant-200712.html&partnerID=253162)

godsgirl
Jan 10th 2009, 11:35 AM
Jesus also foretold the coming of the Third Temple, after the destruction by the Romans in A.D. 70. In Matthew 24:2, Jesus told the disciples after they commented about the beauty of the Temple, that not one stone would be left upon another. This was fulfilled in A.D. 70, by the Romans under Titus. Later Jesus refers to the time of the end, when the Third Temple would be defiled, causing the abomination of desolation.


14“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
Matthew 24:1415

The abomination of desolation is referred to three times in the book of Daniel, (Daniel 9:27,11;31, 12:11). Each mention refers to the Temple being defiled.
Paul also notes the need for a Third Temple and the role the Temple will play. The anti-Christ will enter the Temple and proclaim himself to be God. This is consistent with the words of Jesus and Daniel about the role this Temple will play.
3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
The long absence of a Temple and Israel’s gathering are also foretold by Hosea. The many days refers to our own day. The only other time, since Hosea day there was no Temple was for the 70-year period, between 586 B.C. and 516 B.C. Seventy years does not qualify as a long absence when when the only other time is over 1900 years.

crush
Jan 10th 2009, 12:08 PM
Personally, I want the Jews to be free of their blinders. From my research, the time when the Jews are free will end up being when the Abomination of Desolation happens.
I believe the answer to when Israel's blinders are removed is in Eze

Eze 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

The "hedge" [blinders] created by Israel's false prophets collapses "in the battle of the day of the Lord" [Armageddon, Rev 16:14]

Even if the whole house of Israel saw the AOD as blasphemous, this does not mean that they'd automatically realize the Jesus was their true messiah, just that the beast was not. Jesus would still have to introduce himself :)

moonglow
Jan 10th 2009, 03:07 PM
But that is what God has established. It must happen. We don't like it, but we must remember that God's plan is perfect, He is Holy, righteous, just and merciful.

As to another temple:
(Bold mind)

Daniel 9
26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Can't really have offering and sacrafice, per Jewish law, without a temple, and a wing of it cannot exist for the antichrist to set up his abomination of desolation unless there is a temple with a wing in it to do so.

No I am talking about Christians helping them rebuild...I don't see scriptures saying we are to do this or lead these people to the antichrist like this. That is what I find appalling...yet there are websites by Christians donating huge amounts of money to have the temple rebuilt. To me it shows a true lack of love for the Jews...:(

As far as that verse goes, through my studies that is about the second temple and all of that already happened but I don't want to derail this thread. Everyone has a right to their own views on this...

So in my postings I have been trying to see it from this point of view...though I don't agree with it.. even so just the Idea Christian would want this horrible thing to happen to the Jews is just appalling to me...I see so many rooting for the rebuilding of the temple but don't 'see' past that..what will happen to the Jews...:cry:

God bless

threebigrocks
Jan 10th 2009, 04:21 PM
Thing is, those who are so gung ho for a new temple to be built don't realize what that temple will be. For the Jews,that is obvious. They think they are doing so for Christ's first coming. I don't think as a whole they will turn tail and run, but the antichrist will make himself look like what they have been waiting for. They don't realize that they have built it for exactly the opposite of what they hope for. Some will realize their error and run to the mountians, but some will worship the antichrist as messiah. He is a great deceiver, and can seem to be the light that so many await.

What my mind always goes to here, as a bit of a side note, where is our testimony to the truth? If someone like the antichrist can fool so many - how much more powerful is our testimony and the light we can share than the darkness that can be shed? That is our time between now and whenever the abomination of desolation occurs - to let the light increase. The darkness to come has already been defeated no matter how dark it is, and the light is always brighter than the darkness if we let it shine.

wombat
Jan 10th 2009, 05:20 PM
A major hurdle that I see ahead is the fact that they cannot prove their genealogies. It will be difficult to prove that one is a pure Jew much less from the lineage of Levi. When I ask modern jews about this they say that anyone with the name "Katz" or "Cohen" is considered a levite. However,this will be hard to prove
Hi, Shepherdsword! Here is an interesting article from April 2008 that relates to this topic. Apparently, there is a genetic discovery that can help to verify who is or who is not of the Levite lineage.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123066 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123066)

DIZZY
Jan 10th 2009, 09:52 PM
Wouldn't that be a slap in Jesus's face if the Father helped them establish a Levitical priesthood for temple sacrifices after Jesus fulfilled the Melchizedek office?( This of course brings up EZE 46 as well)

Hi sheperdsword,

No it's not a slap in the face, it's a part of God's plan in bringing His chosen people back to Him. We may not understand everything God does and why He does it but we can know one thing. He does all things to glorify Himself.

God is Father Son and Holy Spirit all in one, the great I am, the alpha and Omega the beginning and the end.

A temple must be built and sacrifices must take place so the abomination of desolation can set himself up as God in the holy place and stop all sacrifices, then turn on God's people. This has to happen, it's not a slap in Christ's face for He is the one taking back what He owns, He is the one opening the scroll and allowing these events to happen.

Cyberseeker
Jan 11th 2009, 12:22 AM
... A temple must be built and sacrifices must take place so the abomination of desolation can set himself up as God in the holy place and stop all sacrifices, then turn on God's people. This has to happen, it's not a slap in Christ's face for He is the one taking back what He owns ...

My version:
A temple must be built and sacrifices must take place AND THIS ACTUALLY IS the abomination of desolation. The high priest sets himself up in the holy place - usurping the new covenant role of Christ. This has to happen so that modern Jewish people see it for what it REALLY IS - a false salvation, and turn back to their true savior Yeshua Messiah.

Jerome1
Jan 11th 2009, 01:19 AM
Really? I know the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has claimed to have it for centuries, at Aksum. Even the Patriarch of the Church has claimed he's not allowed to see it, as there is a permanent guardian. If they have something they think is the Ark, I can't see them giving it up willingly for any amount of money.

Here's an article from the Smithsonian Magazine dated December 2007 by a writer who went to Ethiopia to investigate:

Link (http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Smithsonian+Magazine+|+People+%26+Places+|+K eepers+of+the+Lost+Ark%3F&expire=&urlID=25104449&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smithsonianmag.com%2Fpeople-places%2Fark-covenant-200712.html&partnerID=253162)

I think the story in your link differs slightly from the version of events Grant Jefferys gave concerning Ethiopia's possession of the ark.

In that link you gave it states Menelik was unawre that the real ark had been taken. I think in Grant Jefferys story Menelik conspired with the Jewish High Priest to steal the real ark and leave the replica.

I think this is the story Grant Jeffery was referring to.

Source: http://the-humanstain.blogspot.com/2008/03/ark-of-covenant-preamble-to-world-war.html

third hero
Jan 11th 2009, 04:01 AM
I believe the answer to when Israel's blinders are removed is in Eze

Eze 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

The "hedge" [blinders] created by Israel's false prophets collapses "in the battle of the day of the Lord" [Armageddon, Rev 16:14]

Even if the whole house of Israel saw the AOD as blasphemous, this does not mean that they'd automatically realize the Jesus was their true messiah, just that the beast was not. Jesus would still have to introduce himself :)

Well, Jesus would introduce Himself to them, at the Mount of Olives. When the AoD issues the command, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem are attacked, the Lord will stand in the Mount of Olives, he and the 144,000, and split the Mount, giving the people an escape route. (Revelation 14:1-3, Zechariah 14:3-5a). Those who go through the newly created valley will end up fulfilling Zechariah 12:10-14. Afterwards, like Revealtion 12 tells us, the survivors of the Massacre at Jerusalem will be protected for 3.5 years, the very 3.5 years of the Great Tribulation. It is these survivors who wil see their Lord in action, and the rest of Israel will have no choice but to believe us, because we would have been the ones who have figured the events out first, with Our Lord being the one who saves them quite literally.

third hero
Jan 11th 2009, 04:04 AM
Thing is, those who are so gung ho for a new temple to be built don't realize what that temple will be. For the Jews,that is obvious. They think they are doing so for Christ's first coming. I don't think as a whole they will turn tail and run, but the antichrist will make himself look like what they have been waiting for. They don't realize that they have built it for exactly the opposite of what they hope for. Some will realize their error and run to the mountians, but some will worship the antichrist as messiah. He is a great deceiver, and can seem to be the light that so many await.

What my mind always goes to here, as a bit of a side note, where is our testimony to the truth? If someone like the antichrist can fool so many - how much more powerful is our testimony and the light we can share than the darkness that can be shed? That is our time between now and whenever the abomination of desolation occurs - to let the light increase. The darkness to come has already been defeated no matter how dark it is, and the light is always brighter than the darkness if we let it shine.

I agree. This is our chancve to let our light shine forth, so that the nations can see the testimony that we have both for the believers to be, and the against the nations that will rebel against Lord Jesus.

My heart's Desire
Jan 11th 2009, 04:33 AM
No I am talking about Christians helping them rebuild...I don't see scriptures saying we are to do this or lead these people to the antichrist like this. That is what I find appalling...yet there are websites by Christians donating huge amounts of money to have the temple rebuilt. To me it shows a true lack of love for the Jews...:(

As far as that verse goes, through my studies that is about the second
I believe that there will possibly be an endtime Temple, but like you I don't see the need to help it come to pass. I believe it is a sign like others and in being so, then it will come pass and sometimes God uses people in relation to prophecy doings....
well my point is sort of like this saying. We pray "Even so come Lord Jesus" not always realizing that there are some awful things to occur before He does. I'm guilty yet we should be praying O, Lord please one more day so more might be saved.

Bethany67
Jan 11th 2009, 11:26 AM
I think the story in your link differs slightly from the version of events Grant Jefferys gave concerning Ethiopia's possession of the ark.

In that link you gave it states Menelik was unawre that the real ark had been taken. I think in Grant Jefferys story Menelik conspired with the Jewish High Priest to steal the real ark and leave the replica.

I think this is the story Grant Jeffery was referring to.

Source: http://the-humanstain.blogspot.com/2008/03/ark-of-covenant-preamble-to-world-war.html

Thanks Jerome - as to whether Menelik got the real or a replica 'Ark,' who knows. The Kebra Nagast (the Ethiopian national document) claims the Ark was smuggled into Menelik's train by sons of the Jewish elders. I don't think we can put much store by this document because it suddenly came to prominence some 700 years ago when it was important for the Solomonic Dynasty to stress their descent from the firstborn of Solomon after they overthrew the Zagwe Dynasty in 1270.

It's the most recent events that interest me. I'm curious as to why the blog author stresses that it's all so well attested but fails to quote any sources whatsoever. I've found no secular news reference to the Israelis paying for the Ark via a Swiss account, and if it had actually happened, it would've been all over the media like a rash. So I believe the object (whether the real Ark or a replica or whatever) is still in Ethiopia unless someone can provide a documented source to the alleged return of the Ark to Israel. At this stage it sounds more like the plot of a thriller than an actual event.

As to Israelis flying jets to return Ethiopian Jews to Israel in 1991, that would be Operation Solomon to outwit the Ethiopian leader Mengistu who was overthrown in 1991 and fled to Zimbabwe where he remains. Preceded by Operation Moses in 1984 from the Sudan and Operation Joshua in 1985 again from the Sudan. That much IS attested.

Jerome1
Jan 11th 2009, 09:53 PM
It's the most recent events that interest me. I'm curious as to why the blog author stresses that it's all so well attested but fails to quote any sources whatsoever. I've found no secular news reference to the Israelis paying for the Ark via a Swiss account, and if it had actually happened, it would've been all over the media like a rash. So I believe the object (whether the real Ark or a replica or whatever) is still in Ethiopia unless someone can provide a documented source to the alleged return of the Ark to Israel. At this stage it sounds more like the plot of a thriller than an actual event.


In fairness i think if the Israelis did have the ark(or a replica) i can understand why they would want to keep it a secret. It would show their intention to possibly build another temple, and that wouldn't go down too well in the Arab World i would imagine.

The program i seen Grant Jeffery speak on was called, "Apocalypse & The End Times," on the God channel with Rory and Wendy Alec. On the program he did mention some people that could verify the story, but i forget if he named any of these people individually.

Ethnikos
Jan 12th 2009, 12:24 AM
There are at least three replica arks in existence. I personally do not think anything but the original will be adequate for a temple to be built around. There is at least one place that has been discovered as possible hiding spots for the original ark.
There is a precedence for building a temple without the Ark, that would be the second Temple built after the return from Babylonian captivity.
So my feeling is that it would be better not to have an ark than to have a recreation of what people might think the ark was like.
I do not think the Ethiopia or south African versions an anything but fabricated substitutes.

Bethany67
Jan 12th 2009, 01:21 AM
Umm, God TV, Rory & Wendy Alec. I'd take anything on their channel with a massive (and I mean massive) pinch of salt, given their agenda, theology, and the false prophecy last year. I'd best stop there or we'll end up in waters specifically banned from discussion here.

fontz
Jan 12th 2009, 02:01 AM
I believe that there will possibly be an endtime Temple, but like you I don't see the need to help it come to pass. I believe it is a sign like others and in being so, then it will come pass and sometimes God uses people in relation to prophecy doings....
well my point is sort of like this saying. We pray "Even so come Lord Jesus" not always realizing that there are some awful things to occur before He does. I'm guilty yet we should be praying O, Lord please one more day so more might be saved.

i so agree..my heart hurts to think of even 1 lost let alone so many:cry:

Jerome1
Jan 12th 2009, 02:37 PM
Umm, God TV, Rory & Wendy Alec. I'd take anything on their channel with a massive (and I mean massive) pinch of salt, given their agenda, theology, and the false prophecy last year. I'd best stop there or we'll end up in waters specifically banned from discussion here.

I did take it with a pinch of salt to be honest. There guest was Grant Jeffery, i don't know a lot about him to be honest and i havn't read any of his books.

I don't know anything about their false prophecy last year, maybe you could pm me if it can't be discussed on here.

Grant Jeffery said a few interesting things, he didn't say explicitly but to me he suggested the antichrist could possibly be a future president of the EU, and is also most likely Jewish. Two things which i think are plausible, he also said Moses and Elijah would be the two end times witnesses, to my knowledge the orthodox view is that the two witnesses will be Enoch and Elijah.

*Edit

No need for more information on the false prophecies you were talking about, i did a search and i think i found what you were talking about.

quiet dove
Jan 12th 2009, 10:55 PM
I don't know who Rory and Wendy are but Jeffery has been around a while. The former may not be reliable, but do some checking on Jefferey, don't make him guilty by association. There have been reliable teachers who have made the mistake of associating with the unreliable, or those who have changed through the years and become unreliable. One of my favorite authors was associated with Swygert (however you spell it)before he got in trouble, that made the author no less reliable.

Jerome1
Jan 13th 2009, 12:18 AM
I don't know who Rory and Wendy are but Jeffery has been around a while. The former may not be reliable, but do some checking on Jefferey, don't make him guilty by association. There have been reliable teachers who have made the mistake of associating with the unreliable, or those who have changed through the years and become unreliable. One of my favorite authors was associated with Swygert (however you spell it)before he got in trouble, that made the author no less reliable.

Do you mean Ted Haggard?

I've seen Jeffery on television a couple of times, i think some of what he says is plausible, i havn't read any of his books yet.

Benaiah
Jan 13th 2009, 02:15 AM
I think she is reffering to Jimmy Swaggart.

quiet dove
Jan 13th 2009, 03:38 AM
I think she is reffering to Jimmy Swaggart.

Yes!!, I went totally blank on how to spell his name. :monkeyd:

quiet dove
Jan 13th 2009, 03:40 AM
Do you mean Ted Haggard?

I've seen Jeffery on television a couple of times, i think some of what he says is plausible, i havn't read any of his books yet.

I have seen a show on TBN that he does, just him. And I'm pretty sure those shows can be found on the net but I am not sure where, it require some googling.

Joe King
Jan 13th 2009, 05:42 AM
Please LORD, we are not ready yet!!!!!

shepherdsword
Jan 13th 2009, 06:37 AM
Please LORD, we are not ready yet!!!!!

speak for yourself!


MARANATHA

JesusMySavior
Jan 13th 2009, 08:09 AM
Please LORD, we are not ready yet!!!!!


This touched my heart. We must be prepared for our Lord!! Let us put off all worldly things and put on the garment of Christ! Amen!

Joe King
Jan 13th 2009, 01:17 PM
This touched my heart. We must be prepared for our Lord!! Let us put off all worldly things and put on the garment of Christ! Amen!

We are ready but BILLIONS are not:(:(

Jerome1
Jan 13th 2009, 03:53 PM
I think she is reffering to Jimmy Swaggart.

Yep i just realized, the names rhyme thats were i must have gotten the name Haggard from.