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yaza
Jan 9th 2009, 05:33 PM
is there anything? lets make a list of things god cant do. just for fun. love yaza

MercyChild
Jan 9th 2009, 05:38 PM
Cool thread, there is so much God can do......:pp

Jud 1:24 God can guard you so that you don't fall and so that you can be full of joy as you stand in his glorious presence without fault. :hug:

TrustingFollower
Jan 9th 2009, 05:45 PM
Matthew 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Mark 9:23 And Jesus said to him, "`If You can?´ All things are possible to him who believes."
Mark 10:27 Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."
Mark 14:36 And He was saying, "Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will."

Nothing is impossible for God so I don't see the point of this thread.

markedward
Jan 9th 2009, 05:58 PM
God cannot sin.
God cannot not exist.

There's two.

yaza
Jan 9th 2009, 07:14 PM
God cannot sin.
God cannot not exist.
There's two.
he cant lie, but most of all,he can not see our sin because, we are hidden in christ. isnt that the gospel? there's four does anyone have anymore?

mikebr
Jan 9th 2009, 07:35 PM
God cannot not love. (hate)

Gulah Papyrus
Jan 9th 2009, 07:45 PM
He can't create a boulder that...how does that go?...He can't create a boulder that's too big for Him to lift?...that's not it. How does that go?

divaD
Jan 9th 2009, 07:47 PM
Even tho God can create, it was impossible for God to literally create Himself, because He was never created, but has always existed.

Gulah Papyrus
Jan 9th 2009, 07:51 PM
God can't be surprised.

TrustingFollower
Jan 9th 2009, 07:55 PM
God cannot not love. (hate)
Doesn't God hate sin?

pc_benz
Jan 9th 2009, 08:00 PM
Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil,
19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."



Yes God hates sin and those that are wicked. We need to be careful not to define God as love. Love is just one part of His nature, but in no way defines who He is. Also love does not rein supreme over all God's other attributes.


A.W. Tozer said "Love is something true of God, but it is not God."
Knowledge of the Holy

Scubadude
Jan 9th 2009, 08:29 PM
he cant lie, but most of all,he can not see our sin because, we are hidden in christ. isnt that the gospel? there's four does anyone have anymore?

Are you sure God cannot lie? He can send out a lieing spirit. It's like if you hire a hit man, you are responsible for the murder.

TrustingFollower
Jan 9th 2009, 08:34 PM
Are you sure God cannot lie? He can send out a lieing spirit. It's like if you hire a hit man, you are responsible for the murder.
Scripture reference please...

Yukerboy
Jan 9th 2009, 08:37 PM
1 John 4:16

And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

pc_benz
Jan 9th 2009, 08:53 PM
“The apostle John, by the Spirit, wrote, ‘God is Love,’ and some have taken his words to be a definitive statement concerning the essential nature of God. This is a great error. John was by those words stating a fact, but he was not offering a definition.”

A.W.Tozer
Knowledge of the Holy

Without a doubt God is love, but love does not define God. I heard Josh McDowell a couple of months back say something similar to this:

We have to be careful when trying to define God. A lot of people want God to look like this:

God
Love=90%
Justice=1%
Compassion=5%
Mercy=4%

This is not an accurate description of God. It should look more like this:

God
Love=100%
Justice=100%
Compassion=100%
Mercy=100%

karenoka27
Jan 9th 2009, 08:55 PM
God can't be surprised.

Very good one!:hug:

divaD
Jan 9th 2009, 08:56 PM
Are you sure God cannot lie? He can send out a lieing spirit. It's like if you hire a hit man, you are responsible for the murder.





Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:


I don't even need to read these verses in context. I simply believe it makes the point that God can't lie.

Scubadude
Jan 9th 2009, 09:47 PM
Scripture reference please...


1 Kings 22:20-23

And Jehovah said, “Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?” And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, “I will entice him.” And Jehovah said to him, “Wherewith?” And he said, “I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.” And he said, “Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so.” Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee.

pc_benz
Jan 9th 2009, 10:11 PM
1 Kings 22:20-23

And Jehovah said, “Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?” And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, “I will entice him.” And Jehovah said to him, “Wherewith?” And he said, “I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.” And he said, “Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so.” Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Nice read Scubadude. How did this post get so deep so quick? Must be the sovereign will of Him who rules all created thing.

The text does not say the lying spirit came from God, but only that God allowed it to go and deceive. God is Truth.

John 17:17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth."

TrustingFollower
Jan 9th 2009, 11:14 PM
1 Kings 22:20-23

And Jehovah said, “Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?” And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, “I will entice him.” And Jehovah said to him, “Wherewith?” And he said, “I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.” And he said, “Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so.” Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee.
Thank you for the reference. I see this as God allowing the spirit to go forth and not as God commanding the spirit to go. There is a difference between God allowing something and God commanding it to be.

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2009, 11:42 PM
Thank you for the reference. I see this as God allowing the spirit to go forth and not as God commanding the spirit to go. There is a difference between God allowing something and God commanding it to be.

There were several suggestions given to God. The passage says "One said this manner and another said that..." But the one God liked was the deceiving spirit.

It fits his character. He often hides the truth. But he will not lie. The false accusation is that God sending a deceiving spirit to those that wish to be deceived is the same as lying. It's not.

When one suppresses the truth, God will send him deception. It's a new testament doctrine as well.

8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Vs 11 and 12 above show that God does indeed send a deluding influence upon people. He won't lie to them as scripture says he can't lie. But he has no issue sending a deluding spirit upon those that want to be deluded.

Scubadude
Jan 10th 2009, 12:25 AM
Nice read Scubadude. How did this post get so deep so quick? Must be the sovereign will of Him who rules all created thing.

The text does not say the lying spirit came from God, but only that God allowed it to go and deceive. God is Truth.

John 17:17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth."


Hi, pc!

That was deep?

I didn't think I was creating a preasure.

Actually, the text shows God acknowlegding, giving permition for a lying spirit to do what it does. O.K. Here comes the deep question....

..... if God allows something, does that mean he can't do it? I think that is still in the OP idea.

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2009, 12:29 AM
Hi, pc!

That was deep?

I didn't think I was creating a preasure.

Actually, the text shows God acknowlegding, giving permition for a lying spirit to do what it does. O.K. Here comes the deep question....

..... if God allows something, does that mean he can't do it? I think that is still in the OP idea.

Scripture clearly states it is impossible for God to lie.

18so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.

God won't lie. But he for sure will send a deceiving spirit on those that reject the truth. Mark 4 also states that he hides the truth in parables. The heart is a funny things. If one wants to know the truth, he can. But if he doesn't, God will see to it that man is deceived and yet, God will never lie to him.

Yukerboy
Jan 10th 2009, 12:36 AM
Hi, pc!

That was deep?

I didn't think I was creating a preasure.

Actually, the text shows God acknowlegding, giving permition for a lying spirit to do what it does. O.K. Here comes the deep question....

..... if God allows something, does that mean he can't do it? I think that is still in the OP idea.

God doesn't do something, but He can have it done by proxy.

God wouldn't murder 2 year olds, but God had the Israelites murder them.

God wouldn't lie, but He would give a deceiving spirit permission to deceive.

God wouldn't kill Job's family, but God gave Satan permission to do it.

God wouldn't set up concentration camps, but God put Hitler in power so he could.

Romber
Jan 10th 2009, 12:42 AM
He can't create a boulder that...how does that go?...He can't create a boulder that's too big for Him to lift?...that's not it. How does that go?

It traditionally goes "Can God create a rock so big he can't lift?" Of course a believer will say yes, but then the aggressor will say how can he be all powerful?" It is normally a baffling question set forth to believers by non-believers. Well, into the apologetics of the question:

God created everything. This includes the earth, animals, heavens and most of all, his natural laws. God, in the theory of this question, seems to be bound by gravity, something of his creation. In that sense, gravity is greater than God. Tell me one time when an inventor made something that superseded him? Quite literally, the inventor brought the invention into the world, he can take it out. The same is true for God. He isn't bound by his natural laws. In the end God can make a rock to big to lift-but that is only if we try fitting the scenario into our finite minds.

Anyways, in light of what I just said, God can not be bound by his creation. He is always above it.

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2009, 12:42 AM
God wouldn't murder 2 year olds, but God had the Israelites murder them.

I think your definition of murder is wrong. It is not murder to kill civilians in war. God will not command mankind to sin.

TrustingFollower
Jan 10th 2009, 01:03 AM
There were several suggestions given to God. The passage says "One said this manner and another said that..." But the one God liked was the deceiving spirit.

It fits his character. He often hides the truth. But he will not lie. The false accusation is that God sending a deceiving spirit to those that wish to be deceived is the same as lying. It's not.

When one suppresses the truth, God will send him deception. It's a new testament doctrine as well.

8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Vs 11 and 12 above show that God does indeed send a deluding influence upon people. He won't lie to them as scripture says he can't lie. But he has no issue sending a deluding spirit upon those that want to be deluded.
Thanks Mark, this is turning into a good study of some scriptures here. I can see what you are saying. It is kind of the same thing Paul is saying in Romans 1.

Romans 1

18 ¶For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 ¶Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 ¶For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 ¶And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

God did not command the evil and perverted ways, but he sure allows it for his will. God hide the truth of all creation before all the people, but still allows them to wallow in their own perversion.

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2009, 01:13 AM
God did not command the evil and perverted ways, but he sure allows it for his will. God hide the truth of all creation before all the people, but still allows them to wallow in their own perversion.

You are right in that he does not command men to sin. Romans 1 is a good example. But he also sent an evil spirit on Saul to torment him. The purpose of a deceiving spirit is not only to deceive, but when one is deceived, perhaps deception will hurt so much so as to bring about repentance. When Israel was deceived, it was meant to bring them into a war they would lose. And upon losing, the idea was for them to repent.

In the same way, Paul turned over a man to Satan in 1 Cor 5. It's not that he allowed Satan to do it. He gave him to Satan.

God commanded an evil spirit go and deceive Israel. He commanded an evil spirit to be put on Saul. But that doesn't mean God endorses the actions the men do as a result of being deceived and tormented. On the contrary! It is meant to lead them to repentance. However, if one rejects God, where else can he go but to Satan? The believer will repent and turn back to God. The unbeliever may go further into his deception. But even in this, God is merciful. For he held Israel to a higher standard in Jesus day than he will Sodom. So the more light one has, the harsher the judgment. It is an act of mercy to send deception on those that reject light. For if they are sent more light and still reject, they are then judged more harshly.

Scubadude
Jan 10th 2009, 01:33 AM
You are right in that he does not command men to sin. Romans 1 is a good example. But he also sent an evil spirit on Saul to torment him. The purpose of a deceiving spirit is not only to deceive, but when one is deceived, perhaps deception will hurt so much so as to bring about repentance.

Amen! "Tis no deceit to deceive the deceiver". I forget who said that. The Police department uses lying as an investigative tool. May people are brought to justice because they thought evedence coulud be brought against them. Redemption comes in many ways.

Yukerboy
Jan 10th 2009, 01:37 AM
I think your definition of murder is wrong. It is not murder to kill civilians in war. God will not command mankind to sin.

I understand collateral damage. To go into a land and kill the children intentionally is not collateral damage.

Not getting into this debate again.

I believe that if you take a sword and drive it into the chest of a baby, it is murder.

Justify it anyway you wish, you will not convince me that premeditated killing of a child is not murder.

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2009, 01:39 AM
Justify it anyway you wish, you will not convince me that premeditated killing of a child is not murder.

If I go into my refrigerator and take meat, I have not stolen. If you go into my refrigerator and take meat, with my permission, you have not stolen. If another goes into my refrigerator and takes meat, without my permission he has stolen. He has taken that which is mine.

All belong to God. He can do with us as he wishes. Should he flood the world, he has killed but he has not murdered.

Yukerboy
Jan 10th 2009, 01:47 AM
If I go into my refrigerator and take meat, I have not stolen. If you go into my refrigerator and take meat, with my permission, you have not stolen. If another goes into my refrigerator and takes meat, without my permission he has stolen. He has taken that which is mine.

All belong to God. He can do with us as he wishes. Should he flood the world, he has killed but he has not murdered.

OK, that I'll go with.

Permitted sin is not sin.

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2009, 01:50 AM
OK, that I'll go with.

Permitted sin is not sin.

Not sin at all. If I kill one of my cows, I have not mistreated it. It's mine. If you kill one of my cows, you have sinned.

God is the authority, the judge, the jury. He can do as he pleases. It is not sin for him to kill. So we can't even say "permitted sin". For that is not accurate. There are many things that God does that he does not allow us to do. For instance, God judges in a way we cannot and are prevented from doing. Does that mean he is sinning when he judges?

Yukerboy
Jan 10th 2009, 01:52 AM
Not sin at all. If I kill one of my cows, I have not mistreated it. It's mine. If you kill one of my cows, you have sinned.

God is the authority, the judge, the jury. He can do as he pleases. It is not sin for him to kill. So we can't even say "permitted sin". For that is not accurate. There are many things that God does that he does not allow us to do. For instance, God judges in a way we cannot and are prevented from doing. Does that mean he is sinning when he judges?

So, using that logic, if I kill my child, I have not mistreated it, but if you kill my child, it is murder.

They were not Israeli children.

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2009, 01:53 AM
So, using that logic, if I kill my child, I have not mistreated it, but if you kill my child, it is murder.

They were not Israeli children.

You assume your child is yours and he/she is not. You are your child's authority while here. But he does not belong to you as he belongs to God.

Yukerboy
Jan 10th 2009, 01:58 AM
You assume your child is yours and he/she is not. You are your child's authority while here. But he does not belong to you as he belongs to God.

Wasn't the cow you killed God's too? Or if I kill your cow without your permission, it was God's cow, not yours.

Like I said, justify it anyway that eases your mind. Murder is murder is murder. Murder is sin, unless it is permitted.

TrustingFollower
Jan 10th 2009, 02:00 AM
While you guys have a valid conversation going on, this thread is not on that topic. Please return to the topic at hand. If so desired to continue the current conversation please do so in another thread started on the topic.

Yukerboy
Jan 10th 2009, 02:17 AM
While you guys have a valid conversation going on, this thread is not on that topic. Please return to the topic at hand. If so desired to continue the current conversation please do so in another thread started on the topic.

Fair enough, didn't mean to hijack.

God cannot sin, but by proxy He can. That was my point.

TrustingFollower
Jan 10th 2009, 02:51 AM
Fair enough, didn't mean to hijack.

God cannot sin, but by proxy He can. That was my point.
Even by proxy God hates sin so I beg for you to quote scripture showing God sinning by proxy.

Yukerboy
Jan 10th 2009, 03:02 AM
Even by proxy God hates sin so I beg for you to quote scripture showing God sinning by proxy.

1 Samuel 15:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=9&chapter=15&verse=3&version=31&context=verse)
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

I know you'll say that's not murder. Killing an infant is murder to me and if anyone does it now, it would be considered murder, whether countries are at war or not. This is not collateral damage. This is a willful, purposeful murder of defenseless babies.....and it is just and good.

TrustingFollower
Jan 10th 2009, 03:12 AM
1 Samuel 15:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=9&chapter=15&verse=3&version=31&context=verse)
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

I know you'll say that's not murder. Killing an infant is murder to me and if anyone does it now, it would be considered murder, whether countries are at war or not. This is not collateral damage. This is a willful, purposeful murder of defenseless babies.....and it is just and good.
When has the creation ever been able to tell the creator what to do with the creation. The creator can do anything He wants with the creation even destroy it.

Romans 9

19 ¶You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

Yukerboy
Jan 10th 2009, 03:22 AM
When has the creation ever been able to tell the creator what to do with the creation. The creator can do anything He wants with the creation even destroy it.

Romans 9

19 ¶You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?


Everything you've said here, I agree with. I think that this is one of the stronger passages in the Bible about God's sovereignty. There is probably no larger proponent of the themes in this passage more than I.

Scubadude
Jan 10th 2009, 07:59 AM
1 Samuel 15:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=9&chapter=15&verse=3&version=31&context=verse)
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

I know you'll say that's not murder. Killing an infant is murder to me and if anyone does it now, it would be considered murder, whether countries are at war or not. This is not collateral damage. This is a willful, purposeful murder of defenseless babies.....and it is just and good.



Wait a minuet! I thought I was the one getting deep on this thread! :wasup:

Scubadude
Jan 10th 2009, 08:24 AM
Scripture clearly states it is impossible for God to lie.

18so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.

God won't lie. But he for sure will send a deceiving spirit on those that reject the truth. Mark 4 also states that he hides the truth in parables. The heart is a funny things. If one wants to know the truth, he can. But if he doesn't, God will see to it that man is deceived and yet, God will never lie to him.


I understand that scripture states God is not a man that he should lie. I think understanding that verse comes in looking at it back wards. Why does man lie? The only reasonable answer is to get something he didn't have, or thinks he needs, deserves, wants, wants to avoid.

Bottom line, man lies because he is needy and isn't given control over all things, but he wishes he was. Saying God is not like man that he should lie is saying God is not needy, he doesn't need to fool you to get anything from you. He is.

What ever we are talking about regarding God, we are never in a position to say, "Why would He do things like that?" He can create life, kill it, make it suffer, make it stiff necked, make it someone after His heart, make it someone after His throne. In all things, what ever He does, He is just. So, to say that God killed ('struck down' for you who demand euphemism) someone, or God lied to someone is very different than trying to compare those statements to man. He can do what ever He wants without having to explain His actions, nor do I see any attempt to soften His actions by saying He'll "allow" a thing to happen (as if that somehow lets God off the morality hook).