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copper25
Jan 12th 2009, 03:27 PM
Esther 1:10) On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,

Esther 1:11) To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.


Esther 1:12) But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.

How many times do people often not hear the commands of the King, our Lord and our savior. “Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind”. Not giving their whole heart but having it’s ownership being dominated by something else, let’s call it as it is, an idol. Idols can take any form, it doesn’t have to be a statue or a graven image, but can be hidden stealthily in possessions, friends, family, or in Vasthi’s case, the party/feast for the women in the royal house(metaphorically speaking when compared to Christians’ relationships with God) kept her from doing the commandment of the king. Now is a commandment something optional? No! Is it something we have a choice in? No, not if we want to live pleasing lives to God. And Idols can also take form in presumptuous, willful disobedience, drugs, sex(unmarried a.k.a. fornication), drinking(drunkenness), gambling, and things of the such.

A person can’t be watching for the King’s coming if their heart is snared with an idol, something first that should not be first in their life. So was Christ asking for us to give our lives to him, which includes abandoning sinfulness and lust of the flesh, “And they that are in Christ ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” Which indicates a switch or a transition from the fleshy ways to the ways of the Spirit, “put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in the knowledge after the image of him that created him”. So this transition is one that must occur, for if the old man and his ways be present, then how has the new man which is renewed in knowledge of God ever come to light or be made manifest? Can one be old and new or can one have mixture of the old and the new? Sure one can try to have both but the result will be lukewarm and we know that won’t work. “I know thy works; that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” So can the old harmonize with the new? No it won’t mix like oil and water or like snow and heat or like water and fire, one will extinguish the other. So there are certainly only two ways because the mixture is just as bad as the old man and his deeds.

Can one sit at the Devil’s table and at the table of the Lord’s, I think not, so no one can sit on the fence and not choose because “For he that is not against us is on our part” but “He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.” abroad, the broad way, think about it! Who on the broad way abides in Christ, NONE! And who on the broad way bears fruit of the Spirit, NONE! So those that live in Christ certainly don’t live in the flesh, as it is written ”they that are in Christ ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts” and “the scripture cannot be broken”. Name a WILLFUL sin that is not linked or is a work of the flesh, for isn’t WILLFUL SIN, presumptuous sin, an element of the canal mind? Now we can stumble, but certainly what Christ said, “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest their deeds should be reproved” implies first off that the works of darkness or evil will keep a person from entering the light, drawing near it. Jesus said “I am the light of the world” and when a person CHOOSES to be in darkness and works of the such they are separating themselves from Christ because they CHOOSE to keep the wall of perdition that Christ died to knockdown up. Second off, lest their deeds are reproved, corrected and they turn from them, that they will remain in darkness and not have fellowship with Christ.

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 12th 2009, 06:12 PM
Esther 1:10) On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,

Esther 1:11) To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.


Esther 1:12) But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.

How many times do people often not hear the commands of the King, our Lord and our savior. “Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind”. Not giving their whole heart but having it’s ownership being dominated by something else, let’s call it as it is, an idol. Idols can take any form, it doesn’t have to be a statue or a graven image, but can be hidden stealthily in possessions, friends, family, or in Vasthi’s case, the party/feast for the women in the royal house(metaphorically speaking when compared to Christians’ relationships with God) kept her from doing the commandment of the king. Now is a commandment something optional? No! Is it something we have a choice in? No, not if we want to live pleasing lives to God. And Idols can also take form in presumptuous, willful disobedience, drugs, sex(unmarried a.k.a. fornication), drinking(drunkenness), gambling, and things of the such.

A person can’t be watching for the King’s coming if their heart is snared with an idol, something first that should not be first in their life. So was Christ asking for us to give our lives to him, which includes abandoning sinfulness and lust of the flesh, “And they that are in Christ ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” Which indicates a switch or a transition from the fleshy ways to the ways of the Spirit, “put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in the knowledge after the image of him that created him”. So this transition is one that must occur, for if the old man and his ways be present, then how has the new man which is renewed in knowledge of God ever come to light or be made manifest? Can one be old and new or can one have mixture of the old and the new? Sure one can try to have both but the result will be lukewarm and we know that won’t work. “I know thy works; that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” So can the old harmonize with the new? No it won’t mix like oil and water or like snow and heat or like water and fire, one will extinguish the other. So there are certainly only two ways because the mixture is just as bad as the old man and his deeds.

Can one sit at the Devil’s table and at the table of the Lord’s, I think not, so no one can sit on the fence and not choose because “For he that is not against us is on our part” but “He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.” abroad, the broad way, think about it! Who on the broad way abides in Christ, NONE! And who on the broad way bears fruit of the Spirit, NONE! So those that live in Christ certainly don’t live in the flesh, as it is written ”they that are in Christ ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts” and “the scripture cannot be broken”. Name a WILLFUL sin that is not linked or is a work of the flesh, for isn’t WILLFUL SIN, presumptuous sin, an element of the canal mind? Now we can stumble, but certainly what Christ said, “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest their deeds should be reproved” implies first off that the works of darkness or evil will keep a person from entering the light, drawing near it. Jesus said “I am the light of the world” and when a person CHOOSES to be in darkness and works of the such they are separating themselves from Christ because they CHOOSE to keep the wall of perdition that Christ died to knockdown up. Second off, lest their deeds are reproved, corrected and they turn from them, that they will remain in darkness and not have fellowship with Christ.
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Idols are 'devils'... Jesus 'brought light' to that by exorcising authority over them when they possessed people He cast them out setting the captive free.. He demonstrated that the Kingdom of God was 'at hand'.. by exercising His authority over those wicked evil spirits... as did His disciples in His name. Paul also declares the 'truth' behind Idolatry... In Corinthians he talks about 'what is an idol'? and he taught that 'idols' were devils'... Devils abide and possess people and they can possess animals as well. They move about in the air as does their father who is the prince of the power of the air. Is an idol an inanimate object? a car, a tree, a job, a piece of paper?

One must look at who one is 'worhsipping'.. is he/she worshipping another person? another person who calls himself/herself a Christian a popular Christian personality? are you worshipping somebody that is on TV/ Radio? a popular personality? Do you put these people above the Only True Living God .. Jesus the Christ.. God manifest in the flesh? If one does and has made that person priority/worship above the Only True Living God.. then one must evaluate the 'source' of this worship.. God demands that 'thou shalt have no other Gods before Him'.... if that 'source' is drawing you away from worshipping the Holy One of Isreal...then that source is an idol and is a devil..... Can one tell if an 'idol' is present? The LIGHT of the body is the EYE... if the LIGHT is Darkness.. then how Great is that Darkness.. Take heed....
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And I John saw these things, and heard [them]. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

__________________________________________________ ___

Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases
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napsnsnacks
Mar 11th 2010, 04:15 AM
Esther 1:10) On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,

Esther 1:11) To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.


Esther 1:12) But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.

How many times do people often not hear the commands of the King, our Lord and our savior. “Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind”. Not giving their whole heart but having it’s ownership being dominated by something else, let’s call it as it is, an idol. Idols can take any form, it doesn’t have to be a statue or a graven image, but can be hidden stealthily in possessions, friends, family, or in Vasthi’s case, the party/feast for the women in the royal house(metaphorically speaking when compared to Christians’ relationships with God) kept her from doing the commandment of the king. Now is a commandment something optional? No! Is it something we have a choice in? No, not if we want to live pleasing lives to God. And Idols can also take form in presumptuous, willful disobedience, drugs, sex(unmarried a.k.a. fornication), drinking(drunkenness), gambling, and things of the such.

A person can’t be watching for the King’s coming if their heart is snared with an idol, something first that should not be first in their life. So was Christ asking for us to give our lives to him, which includes abandoning sinfulness and lust of the flesh, “And they that are in Christ ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” Which indicates a switch or a transition from the fleshy ways to the ways of the Spirit, “put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in the knowledge after the image of him that created him”. So this transition is one that must occur, for if the old man and his ways be present, then how has the new man which is renewed in knowledge of God ever come to light or be made manifest? Can one be old and new or can one have mixture of the old and the new? Sure one can try to have both but the result will be lukewarm and we know that won’t work. “I know thy works; that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” So can the old harmonize with the new? No it won’t mix like oil and water or like snow and heat or like water and fire, one will extinguish the other. So there are certainly only two ways because the mixture is just as bad as the old man and his deeds.

Can one sit at the Devil’s table and at the table of the Lord’s, I think not, so no one can sit on the fence and not choose because “For he that is not against us is on our part” but “He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.” abroad, the broad way, think about it! Who on the broad way abides in Christ, NONE! And who on the broad way bears fruit of the Spirit, NONE! So those that live in Christ certainly don’t live in the flesh, as it is written ”they that are in Christ ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts” and “the scripture cannot be broken”. Name a WILLFUL sin that is not linked or is a work of the flesh, for isn’t WILLFUL SIN, presumptuous sin, an element of the canal mind? Now we can stumble, but certainly what Christ said, “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest their deeds should be reproved” implies first off that the works of darkness or evil will keep a person from entering the light, drawing near it. Jesus said “I am the light of the world” and when a person CHOOSES to be in darkness and works of the such they are separating themselves from Christ because they CHOOSE to keep the wall of perdition that Christ died to knockdown up. Second off, lest their deeds are reproved, corrected and they turn from them, that they will remain in darkness and not have fellowship with Christ.

I don't think you should use these scriptures in Esther to support what you have to say in this context because it doesn't relate that the party/feast was in honor of the queen.

It says party was for a whole bunch of different people but not in honor of Vashti. Vashti had a separate thing going on with a feast for the women in the royal house

1. For what it's worth, it says they were making merry with wine, in our modern verbage they were simply hanging out and getting drunk.

2. Stop for a moment to consider Vashti's position. There is the possibility that she didn't show up because maybe she was sick and tired of being abused this way.

Then evidently she got replaced with a few virgins, with the one named Esther eventually becoming queen.

ESTHER 2:10 Esther (or Hadassah, Mordecai's cousin) had not shewed her people nor her kindred: for Mordecai had charged her that she should not shew it.

So Mordecai kept tabs on her situation every day.

I think this "shewed" was appearing naked (Mordecai was a Jew and if he is concerned about any "shewed" that would he was a religious Jew and held OT laws on nudity)

This also suggests that Vashti was forced to parade around nude. If so then our modern equivalent of Ahasuerus drunken party would be a strip club minus the royalty.

Then gain there is another feast after Esther becomes queen.

Then again there goes our modern equivalent of a strip club party minus the royalty.

Then comes the second reference to "Esther had not yet shewed her kindred nor her people" which again suggests public nudity.

But there is no report whether Esther was called to the party or not or reported to the party or not or whether or not she paraded here beauty around the court.

None the less, there is much to suggest this type of nudity which in turn suggests that Vashti was sick of doing it but you suggest in your post that Vashti did not report to the king and parade her beauty around because of some idolatry on her part which you say was Vashti's preoccupation with the women's party.

I think that there is a difference between something that "kept" her from doing the commandment of the king and refusing to do the bidding of the king.

Again I suggest that it wasn't idolatry that lead Vashti to disobey the king but there is ample evidence to suggest that she may have gotten sick and tired of nude dancing in public.

I'm not disagreeing with the content of your post, that is well and good, I am only disagreeing with your choice of Vashti as an example of a personal failure in some form or another due to idolatry.