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View Full Version : Discussion Can someone be saved before they know who Jesus is?



HankZ
Jan 15th 2009, 04:59 AM
If you know that you were saved, then yes, you are a christian and a child of God who will one day be in the presence of God. I was saved for about 2 months before I asked my pastor who Jesus was. He didn't give me an answer, just helped me to find the books of the bible to find out for myself. Salvation comes from God and has nothing to do with our knowledge, however, we are also given the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth.

Acts 9:1-18.
Paul/Saul didn't know who the Savior was. He asked who He was too. Was Paul saved before or after he believed Jesus could save him?

mcgyver
Jan 15th 2009, 05:45 AM
If you're referring to the understanding or knowledge that Christ is both fully man and fully God; then my answer would be "yes", that it is possible to be saved without that specific understanding.

In fact, in my studies of 1st century culture, something has really stood out to me in regard to this very thing.

That is that most of the Gentile churches (who didn't have the "underpinning" of the law and prophets) consisted many times of people who didn't know much more than Jesus had touched their lives and changed them somehow.

It became the responsibility of those who were in the "offices" listed in Ephesians chapt 4 (Apostles, prophets, pastors-teachers, etc.) to then instruct them in "Christianity 101" as it were. ;)

Julian
Jan 15th 2009, 02:13 PM
If you know that you were saved, then yes, you are a christian and a child of God who will one day be in the presence of God. I was saved for about 2 months before I asked my pastor who Jesus was. He didn't give me an answer, just helped me to find the books of the bible to find out for myself. Salvation comes from God and has nothing to do with our knowledge, however, we are also given the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth.

Acts 9:1-18.
Paul/Saul didn't know who the Savior was. He asked who He was too. Was Paul saved before or after he believed Jesus could save him?
They need to believe that God raised him from the dead, that he is their saviour and confess him as their Lord. (Romans 10:9, John 3:16)

In Acts 2 they believed on the Lord Jesus CHirst, and that God raised him from the dead - and they had a change of heart (repented) - and that day those thousands were added to the church.

They had this basic knowledge of him at least. I'm not sure about the fulness of your question, but at face value if someone doesn't even know who this savior/Jesus is then they can't confess someone they don't even know (at all) as their Lord. But if they have HEARD about him, as we can read the progression in Romans 10, then they can believe on him.

HankZ: Could you clarify if your questions is talking about knowing Jesus at all, or knowing the fulness of who he is, or somewhere in the middle?

grit
Jan 15th 2009, 02:23 PM
Can someone be saved before they know who Jesus is?

I’m not meaning to ‘hedge’ on the question, but our looking at the issue gets a bit complicated, especially for a “New in Christ” thread and especially since there’s been considerable division among Christians throughout history on these issues; but delving into these complications can be very important.

I’d say, yes, salvation is from God and one can be saved before knowing who Jesus is. But in our discussions we often bring different understandings of what it means to be saved and to know Jesus. We bring even other understandings to the question of knowing whether we know we are/were saved, or can know. There are some pretty diverse perspectives among Christians here at Bibleforums, but I think I’m mostly in agreement with your perspective on these issues.

Here’s some of what I believe. As to knowledge, I believe there’s a distinction to be made between a general knowledge of God and a saving knowledge of God. I believe, for example, that Satan and deamons and each of us humans have an innate knowledge of God by virtue of being created by God – sort of like having it as part of our DNA. It’s for this reason I don’t believe in atheists – I think everyone has some built-in knowledge of God. I further believe that humans were created to fellowship rightly with God, so that when we’re not fellowshipping rightly with God we ‘notice’ that something is missing, something is wrong. This I would term a general knowledge of God, as distinct from a saving knowledge of God.

A saving knowledge of God is much more difficult to ‘pin down’, since I believe it essentially comes from God through the Holy Spirit as an awakening of our essence into new life through Christ. I believe this necessary for our salvation. I believe this is purposed by God before the creation of the world, and that it can occur in time at any point in one’s human life-cycle – from before birth right through our leaving our earthly bodies for elsewhere. In my own life I believe I was saved before I was born and that there has never been a time in my life when I wasn’t so saved. Further, I believe this saving knowledge also occurs at some level in our being that isn’t dependent on human intellect – that the mentally handicapped, for example, can be graced with this knowledge every bit as much as you or I. This saving knowledge, which, again, is of the Holy Spirit, brings with it such things as repentance from evil and a true love of God. We might not be humanly able to see the evidences of this in someone’s life, but usually we do – when, for example, someone visibly and vocally “turns their life over to God”, makes “confession of believing in God”, “accepts Jesus into their life”, “turns from their sinful ways”, and exhibits a “spirit-filled” life in Christ.

The whole matter of salvation is another issue – one we again often theologically complicate, just as the Bible does. In one since we are saved before the foundation of the world, in another we are saved in time when Christ Jesus died for our sins, in another we are saved when we receive the Holy Spirit, in another we are being saved daily through our Christian walk, in another we will not be ultimately saved until we are completely free of the presence of sin and eternally at home with the Lord. There are even further complications, particularly in considerations of when and in what order salvation occurs through the process of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

:hug:

markdrums
Jan 15th 2009, 07:09 PM
Just an additional thought on the subject:

We're told that our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life, before the foundations of the world were ever laid down.

Meaning: God already knows/knew who will & won't ask for forgiveness & accept salvation.

So in SOME sense, YES.
I'd say we're saved before we know Jesus....but only because HE knows that we WILL ask, and our names ARE in the "Book of Life".

Know what I mean?
:)

Vhayes
Jan 15th 2009, 07:12 PM
Just an additional thought on the subject:

We're told that our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life, before the foundations of the world were ever laid down.

Meaning: God already knows/knew who will & won't ask for forgiveness & accept salvation.

So in SOME sense, YES.
I'd say we're saved before we know Jesus....but only because HE knows that we WILL ask, and our names ARE in the "Book of Life".

Know what I mean?
:)
Yep! Great answer.
V

Julian
Jan 15th 2009, 07:27 PM
Just an additional thought on the subject:

We're told that our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life, before the foundations of the world were ever laid down.

Meaning: God already knows/knew who will & won't ask for forgiveness & accept salvation.

So in SOME sense, YES.
I'd say we're saved before we know Jesus....but only because HE knows that we WILL ask, and our names ARE in the "Book of Life".

Know what I mean?
:)
Which verse were you thinking of? Because some verses use a greek word that referrs to the different 'ages/world' that have come and gone, and others referr to the beginning of time (more or less). I beleive Christ was crucified before the foundation of this age, but he wasn't even born before the other ages.

Wasn't it is flesh and blood that the made atonement for us on the cross? If so, how did that exist before time or the world was created/began? Surely he became flesh at some point in time, and wasn't that flesh crucified before he was even made flesh...

markdrums
Jan 15th 2009, 08:04 PM
Which verse were you thinking of? Because some verses use a greek word that referrs to the different 'ages/world' that have come and gone, and others referr to the beginning of time (more or less). I beleive Christ was crucified before the foundation of this age, but he wasn't even born before the other ages.

Wasn't it is flesh and blood that the made atonement for us on the cross? If so, how did that exist before time or the world was created/began? Surely he became flesh at some point in time, and wasn't that flesh crucified before he was even made flesh...


I'm trying to remember where the verses are.... I'll keep digging.
But in the mean time, I'll explain the context of what I said. :)

God is the beginning and the end, and he KNOWS the beginning from the end.

Before he created Heaven & Earth, he already knew us. He knew who we would be & what decisions we'll make.

The actual crucifixion WAS the payment for our sins, & "sealed the deal" so to speak. Through our faith in Christ & by God's grace we are saved.

If a person never asks for salvation and never puts his/her faith in Jesus, then they aren't saved...... and their names are not in the Book of Life.

We can't comprehend what it is to be "outside of time". So to us, we see things as, before, during, and after. God however; sees things as, "They ARE". There's not really a past, present & future in his terms. Everything just "IS".

So, Christ would have been crucified before the foundations of the world.

And NOW... I'm getting to the point where I need to stop, because I can't comprehend exactly what that means, or how it works either!
:lol:

WHEW!

Hopefully I made at least some sort of sense.

Revinius
Jan 16th 2009, 02:52 AM
It's understandable that in our knowledge of the Lord that we must eventually get to the point where our perception is so hindered by both his greatness and our fickle and fallen minds that we can go no further.

crossnote
Jan 16th 2009, 06:12 AM
A saving knowledge of God is much more difficult to ‘pin down’, since I believe it essentially comes from God through the Holy Spirit as an awakening of our essence into new life through Christ. I believe this necessary for our salvation. I believe this is purposed by God before the creation of the world, and that it can occur in time at any point in one’s human life-cycle – from before birth right through our leaving our earthly bodies for elsewhere. In my own life I believe I was saved before I was born and that there has never been a time in my life when I wasn’t so saved.
:hug:

Before you were born? Are you referring to being predestined and called or do you mean your sins were forgiven (subjectively as well as objectively) before you were born? You seem to be indicating that the salvation you now experience you also experienced before you were born. If so do you have Scripture backing?

Julian
Jan 16th 2009, 06:18 AM
I'm trying to remember where the verses are.... I'll keep digging.
But in the mean time, I'll explain the context of what I said. :)

God is the beginning and the end, and he KNOWS the beginning from the end.

Before he created Heaven & Earth, he already knew us. He knew who we would be & what decisions we'll make.

The actual crucifixion WAS the payment for our sins, & "sealed the deal" so to speak. Through our faith in Christ & by God's grace we are saved.

If a person never asks for salvation and never puts his/her faith in Jesus, then they aren't saved...... and their names are not in the Book of Life.

We can't comprehend what it is to be "outside of time". So to us, we see things as, before, during, and after. God however; sees things as, "They ARE". There's not really a past, present & future in his terms. Everything just "IS".

So, Christ would have been crucified before the foundations of the world.

And NOW... I'm getting to the point where I need to stop, because I can't comprehend exactly what that means, or how it works either!
:lol:

WHEW!

Hopefully I made at least some sort of sense.Thanks - but I need to wait for the scriptures instead of the rest first.

yaza
Jan 16th 2009, 03:03 PM
If you're referring to the understanding or knowledge that Christ is both fully man and fully God; then my answer would be "yes", that it is possible to be saved without that specific understanding.

In fact, in my studies of 1st century culture, something has really stood out to me in regard to this very thing.

That is that most of the Gentile churches (who didn't have the "underpinning" of the law and prophets) consisted many times of people who didn't know much more than Jesus had touched their lives and changed them somehow.

It became the responsibility of those who were in the "offices" listed in Ephesians chapt 4 (Apostles, prophets, pastors-teachers, etc.) to then instruct them in "Christianity 101" as it were. ;)
yes, this is what makes us different than others, is our witness for jesus,and our willingness to die for his name.

grit
Jan 16th 2009, 03:08 PM
Before you were born? Are you referring to being predestined and called or do you mean your sins were forgiven (subjectively as well as objectively) before you were born? You seem to be indicating that the salvation you now experience you also experienced before you were born. If so do you have Scripture backing?

Yes.
Well, we've touched on this in some of the baptism threads. There aren't a lot of Scriptures that cover in utero experiences. One might reference 1 Cor. vii. 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Cor.%207:14;&version=47;), Luke i. 41-44 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%201:41-44;&version=47;), Acts ii. 39 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202:39;&version=47;), Rom. xi. 16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2011:16;&version=47;), Gen. xvii. 7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%2017:7;&version=47;), Acts ii. 38-39 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202:38-39;&version=47;), Rom. iv. 11-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom.%204:11-12;&version=47;), Mark x. 13-16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2010:13-16;&version=47;), Luke xviii. 15-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2018:15-17;&version=47;), 2 Sam. xii. 23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Sam.%2012:23;&version=47;), Romans ix. 8-13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom%209:8-13;&version=47;).

yaza
Jan 16th 2009, 03:31 PM
[quote=grit;1945240]

I’m not meaning to ‘hedge’ on the question, but our looking at the issue gets a bit complicated, especially for a “New in Christ” thread and especially since there’s been considerable division among Christians throughout history on these issues; but delving into these complications can be very important.

I’d say, yes, salvation is from God and one can be saved before knowing who Jesus is. But in our discussions we often bring different understandings of what it means to be saved and to know Jesus. We bring even other understandings to the question of knowing whether we know we are/were saved, or can know. There are some pretty diverse perspectives among Christians here at Bibleforums, but I think I’m mostly in agreement with your perspective on these issues.

Here’s some of what I believe. As to knowledge, I believe there’s a distinction to be made between a general knowledge of God and a saving knowledge of God. I believe, for example, that Satan and deamons and each of us humans have an innate knowledge of God by virtue of being created by God – sort of like having it as part of our DNA. It’s for this reason I don’t believe in atheists – I think everyone has some built-in knowledge of God. I further believe that humans were created to fellowship rightly with God, so that when we’re not fellowshipping rightly with God we ‘notice’ that something is missing, something is wrong. This I would term a general knowledge of God, as distinct from a saving knowledge of God.

A saving knowledge of God is much more difficult to ‘pin down’, since I believe it essentially comes from God through the Holy Spirit as an awakening of our essence into new life through Christ. I believe this necessary for our salvation. I believe this is purposed by God before the creation of the world, and that it can occur in time at any point in one’s human life-cycle – from before birth right through our leaving our earthly bodies for elsewhere. In my own life I believe I was saved before I was born and that there has never been a time in my life when I wasn’t so saved. Further, I believe this saving knowledge also occurs at some level in our being that isn’t dependent on human intellect – that the mentally handicapped, for example, can be graced with this knowledge every bit as much as you or I. This saving knowledge, which, again, is of the Holy Spirit, brings with it such things as repentance from evil and a true love of God. We might not be humanly able to see the evidences of this in someone’s life, but usually we do – when, for example, someone visibly and vocally “turns their life over to God”, makes “confession of believing in God”, “accepts Jesus into their life”, “turns from their sinful ways”, and exhibits a “spirit-filled” life in Christ.

The whole matter of salvation is another issue – one we again often theologically complicate, just as the Bible does. In one since we are saved before the foundation of the world, in another we are saved in time when Christ Jesus died for our sins, in another we are saved when we receive the Holy Spirit, in another we are being saved daily through our Christian walk, in another we will not be ultimately saved until we are completely free of the presence of sin and eternally at home with the Lord. There are even further complications, particularly in considerations of when and in what order salvation occurs through the process of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
for a new christian you sure have a great understanding of the word! isnt the bible awesome. i will give you a rule of thumb that i find helps me to answer tough doctine issues. let the holy spirit reveal it to you and depend on him. for me when i hear something that doesnt sound correct a verse will pop into my head. like when i read your question acts 4:12 there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved. remember it all must fit together perfectly if it doesnt then go back and pray that the lord will give you the understanding. dont use any other resources except a concordance.ggggggggggggggggggggg
]

crossnote
Jan 17th 2009, 07:26 AM
Yes.
Well, we've touched on this in some of the baptism threads. There aren't a lot of Scriptures that cover in utero experiences. One might reference 1 Cor. vii. 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Cor.%207:14;&version=47;), Luke i. 41-44 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%201:41-44;&version=47;), Acts ii. 39 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202:39;&version=47;), Rom. xi. 16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2011:16;&version=47;), Gen. xvii. 7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%2017:7;&version=47;), Acts ii. 38-39 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202:38-39;&version=47;), Rom. iv. 11-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom.%204:11-12;&version=47;), Mark x. 13-16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2010:13-16;&version=47;), Luke xviii. 15-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2018:15-17;&version=47;), 2 Sam. xii. 23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Sam.%2012:23;&version=47;), Romans ix. 8-13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom%209:8-13;&version=47;).


I find the references quite vague. Althogh Acts 2:39 which you posted does state 'as many as call on the name

Here is one that may be more to the point.

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
(Eph 2:2-3)

grit
Jan 17th 2009, 03:28 PM
I'm sorry, crossnote. I think we're on different wavelengths. I find your reference as vague on the topic as you consider mine. What was the point exactly? I don't disagree with the Biblical teaching of original sin, the federal doctrine (or covenantal understanding) of an inherited corrupted nature, that all children are born in sin and are "by nature children of wrath".

I think those are important considerations for those "new in christ" to grasp.

HankZ
Jan 20th 2009, 08:37 PM
If you're referring to the understanding or knowledge that Christ is both fully man and fully God; then my answer would be "yes", that it is possible to be saved without that specific understanding.

In fact, in my studies of 1st century culture, something has really stood out to me in regard to this very thing.

That is that most of the Gentile churches (who didn't have the "underpinning" of the law and prophets) consisted many times of people who didn't know much more than Jesus had touched their lives and changed them somehow.

It became the responsibility of those who were in the "offices" listed in Ephesians chapt 4 (Apostles, prophets, pastors-teachers, etc.) to then instruct them in "Christianity 101" as it were. ;)


To clarify, you do not think that a person needs to understand who Jesus is before they are saved? Does this include the deity of Jesus?

HankZ
Jan 20th 2009, 08:48 PM
They need to believe that God raised him from the dead, that he is their saviour and confess him as their Lord. (Romans 10:9, John 3:16)

In Acts 2 they believed on the Lord Jesus CHirst, and that God raised him from the dead - and they had a change of heart (repented) - and that day those thousands were added to the church.

They had this basic knowledge of him at least. I'm not sure about the fulness of your question, but at face value if someone doesn't even know who this savior/Jesus is then they can't confess someone they don't even know (at all) as their Lord. But if they have HEARD about him, as we can read the progression in Romans 10, then they can believe on him.

HankZ: Could you clarify if your questions is talking about knowing Jesus at all, or knowing the fulness of who he is, or somewhere in the middle?

I'm refering to the salvation of Saul/Paul. He had knowledge of Jesus, not as a Savior but thought of Him as a criminal. Saul arrested and promoted the murder of anyone who followed Jesus. Saul had given no indication of repenting of his sins. He believed himself to be rightous before the Lord until after he was saved. Is this a Paul only situation or does God save people like this even today? Most christians say they think God saves people like this but then say you must first believe. Saul/Paul did not believe until after he was saved.

HankZ
Jan 20th 2009, 08:55 PM
They need to believe that God raised him from the dead, that he is their saviour and confess him as their Lord. (Romans 10:9, John 3:16)

In Acts 2 they believed on the Lord Jesus CHirst, and that God raised him from the dead - and they had a change of heart (repented) - and that day those thousands were added to the church.

They had this basic knowledge of him at least. I'm not sure about the fulness of your question, but at face value if someone doesn't even know who this savior/Jesus is then they can't confess someone they don't even know (at all) as their Lord. But if they have HEARD about him, as we can read the progression in Romans 10, then they can believe on him.

HankZ: Could you clarify if your questions is talking about knowing Jesus at all, or knowing the fulness of who he is, or somewhere in the middle?


Could they have confessed and believed in the Lord Jesus after their salvation or was it their confession and believing that allowed them to be saved. I think they were saved and given the faith in which caused them to believe and given the knowledge of their sins causing them to repent.

awestruckchild
Jan 20th 2009, 09:16 PM
I was saved the moment I first prayed and asked God to forgive me for having never believed He was real and for having told others all my life that He was just a myth. I just knew it and great calm and relief came over me.
But I did not know that Jesus was God and a week or so after I first prayed I watched "The Passion of the Christ" and I got really mad at God for doing that to Jesus. I flat out told Him if He was so big why couldn't He have found a better way! I felt very tender toward Jesus but felt God was just as harsh as could be. Later on I had to haul my foot out of my mouth because He showed me that He was Jesus.

So yeah, I was saved before I had any real inkling of who Jesus was. All I knew when I read the gospel was that He was telling the truth as crazy as it sounded to me and that was it - bang!- I was in the fetal position begging His forgiveness.

Julian
Jan 21st 2009, 05:03 AM
I'm refering to the salvation of Saul/Paul. He had knowledge of Jesus, not as a Savior but thought of Him as a criminal. Saul arrested and promoted the murder of anyone who followed Jesus. Saul had given no indication of repenting of his sins. He believed himself to be rightous before the Lord until after he was saved. Is this a Paul only situation or does God save people like this even today? Most christians say they think God saves people like this but then say you must first believe. Saul/Paul did not believe until after he was saved.


Could they have confessed and believed in the Lord Jesus after their salvation or was it their confession and believing that allowed them to be saved. I think they were saved and given the faith in which caused them to believe and given the knowledge of their sins causing them to repent.

Perhaps some scriptures would help clear this up. Do you have some that say he didn't believe until after he was saved? He's the one that wrote that we have to beleive unto righteousness and confess Christ as Lord unto salvation. If we believe what Romans 10:9 says, the answer to your 'after' question is no. See for yourself:

Romans 10:8b-11 the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Here's another good one on the topic:
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

HankZ
Jan 21st 2009, 05:47 PM
Perhaps some scriptures would help clear this up. Do you have some that say he didn't believe until after he was saved? He's the one that wrote that we have to beleive unto righteousness and confess Christ as Lord unto salvation. If we believe what Romans 10:9 says, the answer to your 'after' question is no. See for yourself:

Romans 10:8b-11 the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Here's another good one on the topic:
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Paul seems to be encouraging other believers to share the gospel with non-believers in this passage.

We are commanded to take the gospel to all the world, however, this doesn't mean that everyone we share with will accept the gospel, repent and be saved. Only God can change hearts.

Ezekiel 36:24-27
24"For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land.
25"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
26"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

mcgyver
Jan 21st 2009, 08:13 PM
To clarify, you do not think that a person needs to understand who Jesus is before they are saved? Does this include the deity of Jesus?

Hi Hank, sorry it took so long to get back to you here...

In my case as an example, all I knew at the time was basically that Jesus was the Son of God who had died for me, and rose again the third day.

An understanding that Jesus is also God was something that came to me a bit later, as I started to attend church and get grounded in the word of God. I was fortunate that as a new Christian...Our Battalion Chaplain was 100% sound doctrinally, and he had a lot to do with discipling me...as I was deployed into a combat theater with only 3 months in the faith.

So, I hope this serves to clarify what I wrote earlier. ;)

Spirit Driven
Jan 25th 2009, 06:22 AM
If you know that you were saved, then yes, you are a christian and a child of God who will one day be in the presence of God. I was saved for about 2 months before I asked my pastor who Jesus was. He didn't give me an answer, just helped me to find the books of the bible to find out for myself. Salvation comes from God and has nothing to do with our knowledge, however, we are also given the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth.

Acts 9:1-18.
Paul/Saul didn't know who the Savior was. He asked who He was too. Was Paul saved before or after he believed Jesus could save him?


Greetings Freind,

All of human Kind with out a single exception was saved for Eternity with God....at the Cross.

Not everybody is aware of that...yet...

Yet.... being the key word here.....next time you go to Church, you will notice that big Cross front and centre.....right in front of everybody, as time goes by you will learn, not everybody can see what is right in front of them...but that is Gods doing.

You will note that Paul describes himself as the foremost of all Sinners....did you notice how the foremost of all sinners was saved by God....and not of his own violation.
God bent Paul to his will, but he did it with Grace.

Is it not nice to know, that the word that first proceeded out of the mouth of God tells us, that the worst possible Sinner that will ever exist, has already been saved by the will of God alone.

To be testified in due time....

Grace and Peace to you....always!

Revinius
Jan 25th 2009, 01:52 PM
All of human kind are not saved....

mongoose303
Jan 25th 2009, 07:45 PM
I was raised in the Church but still didn't experience the peace, joy and salvation that Jesus brings 'til I was 21. The Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins and that's why I am a Christian today. I still had a lot of questions prior to getting saved but I had to learn as I went along.

HankZ
Jan 25th 2009, 08:06 PM
Greetings Freind,

All of human Kind with out a single exception was saved for Eternity with God....at the Cross.

Not everybody is aware of that...yet...

Yet.... being the key word here.....next time you go to Church, you will notice that big Cross front and centre.....right in front of everybody, as time goes by you will learn, not everybody can see what is right in front of them...but that is Gods doing.

You will note that Paul describes himself as the foremost of all Sinners....did you notice how the foremost of all sinners was saved by God....and not of his own violation.
God bent Paul to his will, but he did it with Grace.

Is it not nice to know, that the word that first proceeded out of the mouth of God tells us, that the worst possible Sinner that will ever exist, has already been saved by the will of God alone.

To be testified in due time....

Grace and Peace to you....always!

Do you believe no one who will go to hell?

HankZ
Feb 8th 2009, 09:10 PM
If any moderator wants to close this thread, I don't see any purpose in it staying open.
Thanks,
HankZ