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Romber
Jan 16th 2009, 03:35 PM
I often get the question that merely saying "I believe" is a handout to heaven. Of course it is not, but what/where is the scripture that tells you to sincerely accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?

Toymom
Jan 16th 2009, 04:41 PM
Mk 16:16 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=41&CHAP=16&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John146
Jan 16th 2009, 04:59 PM
I often get the question that merely saying "I believe" is a handout to heaven. Of course it is not, but what/where is the scripture that tells you to sincerely accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This specifically points out the need to believe in your heart, which implies that it's more than just believing in your head. Also, confessing with your mouth means that you really mean it and want others to know that you believe and aren't ashamed of it.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

This passage shows that merely believing in your head isn't enough, but the kind of faith He is looking for is for people to deny themselves and give their lives to Him and to not be ashamed of Him.

Walstib
Jan 16th 2009, 05:22 PM
Hi Romber,

Here is one I think.

The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When He comes, He will tell us all things." Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He." (Joh 4:19-26 NKJV)

If you go digging you will find plenty. Consider what "in spirit" means toward the topic.

Peace,
Joe

Theophilus
Jan 16th 2009, 06:04 PM
As a kind of OTOH:

James 2:19 (NLT) says this: You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.

Demons believe in God...and in the NT, recognized Jesus for Who He was/is...and it's not going to do them one iota of good.

Yukerboy
Jan 16th 2009, 06:25 PM
I often get the question that merely saying "I believe" is a handout to heaven. Of course it is not, but what/where is the scripture that tells you to sincerely accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?

Anyone can believe, but he who endures to the end are the born again and shall be saved.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Romber
Jan 17th 2009, 12:58 AM
Thanks guys. I am trying to explain to a guy how merely 'believing' doesn't get him a ticket to hell if he doesn't repent his actions or make changes.

reformedct
Jan 17th 2009, 01:08 AM
Thanks guys. I am trying to explain to a guy how merely 'believing' doesn't get him a ticket to hell if he doesn't repent his actions or make changes.

even the demons believe lol

faith without works is dead, can this faith save? no way jose

True "belief" is accompanied by repentance

there is a passage in the Gospels where Jesus tells a group of Jews that "believed" in Him that they were sons of the Devil lol

ProjectPeter
Jan 17th 2009, 01:33 PM
This passage speaks of something really even greater than sincerity.

Luke 14:24 *`For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste of my dinner.´"
25 *¶Now great multitudes were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,
26 *"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
27 *"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28 *"For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost, to see if he has enough to complete it?
29 *"Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30 *saying, `This man began to build and was not able to finish.´
31 *"Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and take counsel whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
32 *"Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks terms of peace.
33 *"So therefore, no one of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
34 *"Therefore, salt is good; but if even salt has become tasteless, with what will it be seasoned?
35 *"It is useless either for the soil or for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

mikebr
Jan 17th 2009, 02:00 PM
I believe that salvation to most is simply self preservation. A get out of Hell free ticket, fire insurance. What if it became a marriage proposal of sorts, a divine relationship? Christ in me and me in Him. I think it would change the way we approach it and it would necessitate that we be real about it.

mikebr
Jan 17th 2009, 02:39 PM
The Church is being ripped off. There’s a roaring lion out there seeking whom he may devour, but we’ve spent years promoting the half-gospel of “Jesus died to pay your sin debt” and have downplayed the total lordship, power, and authority of Christ over our lives (me in Christ) and His power in and through us (Christ in me) that is free for the taking. Really, we’ve let ourselves be ripped off.

Ron Block, musician and writer (banjo for Allison Krause)

Julian
Jan 17th 2009, 03:38 PM
Thanks guys. I am trying to explain to a guy how merely 'believing' doesn't get him a ticket to hell if he doesn't repent his actions or make changes.Glad you mentioned it. Perhaps you meant a ticket to 'heaven'??

Here's what was preached on the day of Pentecost (some of it):

Acts 2:32-33, 36-38 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Dani H
Jan 17th 2009, 03:47 PM
Quote:
The Church is being ripped off. There’s a roaring lion out there seeking whom he may devour, but we’ve spent years promoting the half-gospel of “Jesus died to pay your sin debt” and have downplayed the total lordship, power, and authority of Christ over our lives (me in Christ) and His power in and through us (Christ in me) that is free for the taking. Really, we’ve let ourselves be ripped off.
Ron Block, musician and writer (banjo for Allison Krause)

Yup, that's why we have multitudes of "Christians" running around out there that either a) got a half-baked (i.e. false) gospel and aren't born again or b) were born again but forever stuck in the baby phase. Your converts are living proof of the gospel you preach, whichever one it is; whether the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or another gospel altogether.

Yukerboy
Jan 17th 2009, 04:41 PM
This passage speaks of something really even greater than sincerity.

Luke 14:24 *`For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste of my dinner.´"
25 *¶Now great multitudes were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,
26 *"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
27 *"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28 *"For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost, to see if he has enough to complete it?
29 *"Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30 *saying, `This man began to build and was not able to finish.´
31 *"Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and take counsel whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
32 *"Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks terms of peace.
33 *"So therefore, no one of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
34 *"Therefore, salt is good; but if even salt has become tasteless, with what will it be seasoned?
35 *"It is useless either for the soil or for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

You know, this is an extremely good point.

Those who believed for a while and then fell away does not mean they were sincere in that belief.

They received the word with joy! They were sincere. They desired to come to God. Yet, when temptation came, even with that sincere heart and the joy they had in receiving the Word, they still fell away. They were sincere, but never had root in Christ.

My heart's Desire
Jan 18th 2009, 02:55 AM
John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 For God DID NOT send the Son into the world to JUDGE the world, but that the world might BE SAVED through Him.
He who believes in Him is NOT JUDGED; he who DOES NOT BELIEVE HAS BEEN JUDGED already, because he has NOT believed
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name.

shepherdsword
Jan 18th 2009, 03:04 AM
I often get the question that merely saying "I believe" is a handout to heaven. Of course it is not, but what/where is the scripture that tells you to sincerely accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?


Can anyone show me an apostolic source that used the term "personal
savior"? I know several people will reply with various answers to Romber's question. I would just like to see a new testament source for the term.
How about a new testament source for our little salvation ritual of "the sinner's prayer"

Dani H
Jan 18th 2009, 05:52 AM
It's not enough to believe in Jesus. John 3:16 denotes that you believe into Him, that means enter His finished work on the cross and by doing so have the Lord take the punishment for your sin. It's an active entering, not a mental assent.

My heart's Desire
Jan 19th 2009, 08:34 PM
It's not enough to believe in Jesus. John 3:16 denotes that you believe into Him, that means enter His finished work on the cross and by doing so have the Lord take the punishment for your sin. It's an active entering, not a mental assent.
I like how you put that. People think I'm into easy believe-ism and to a point that is true. Yet, to believe is in reality to trust, which isn't always so easy as some think. To believe, a person is making a choice or decision to trust the Lords Words and to go from being without Christ to being with Christ. It is a change of position.

My heart's Desire
Jan 19th 2009, 08:49 PM
Can anyone show me an apostolic source that used the term "personal
savior"? I know several people will reply with various answers to Romber's question. I would just like to see a new testament source for the term.
How about a new testament source for our little salvation ritual of "the sinner's prayer"
As I've noted above I believe it has it's source on John 3:16. The whosoever believes makes it a personal decision and not corporal.
The verse also say Whosoever receives Him which is the part of the sinners prayer of such as "I now receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior. The "sinners prayer is not written in stone. It is mankind's way of helping believers know what they believe and what they are doing, knowing they are sinners, knowing they need a Savior and receiving as Savior the One they know died for them.
Chances are before the prayer is given, the way of Salvation has probably been fully explained or preached. We know it doesn't even take that. We don't know what the Holy Spirit may have used with different people to lay the conviction on their heart that they need a Savior. It may not have even happened on the day they say the Sinners prayer.
The Sinner's prayer is just a way of trying to put the conversion experience in human words, IMO.With our mouth we confess, but it is the heart that believes.

BadDog
Jan 22nd 2009, 01:53 AM
I often get the question that merely saying "I believe" is a handout to heaven. Of course it is not, but what/where is the scripture that tells you to sincerely accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?I think the key here is the common misconception that we are saved by merely saying "I believe."

We are saved by truly believing in eternal life gained through faith in Christ--that Jesus died in our place, paying the penalty for our sins. It is genuine trusting in Christ. We gain eternal life as a result of genuine faith--not through something we merely say.

This is probably at least partially encouraged through some of the invitations which we all have experienced: inviting people to raise their hands, come forward, etc., and eventually they are asked to pray a certain prayer, as if there is some sort of spiritual power in the words mentioned in a prayer. That is not biblical. It is the genuine faith, whether prayed or not, that brings about salvation.

When a person comes to genuinely believe in Christ, to entrust his destiny in Christ, He becomes a new creature, born from above. It is something which God does in us. We do nothing. This change is brought about by God. Becoming a Christian is not a "decision" to start living a certain way or to follow a creed, etc.

BD

reformedct
Jan 22nd 2009, 01:58 AM
u need grace.

u need a new nature.

u need God.

We dont have faith in our level of faith

The important thing is the object of your faith

The point is to have faith in Christ

not faith in sincerity

if u truly have faith in Christ, your sincereity will be manifest in a new life, being changed daily to become more like Christ

just my 2 cents