PDA

View Full Version : Sermon on the Mount - Intro



Pages : 1 [2]

SeattleSun
Mar 4th 2009, 09:21 PM
Hey CW! Good to "see" you! :kiss:



The images that appear in the Bible come first. Rich men giving to the temple in such a way as to be noticed (contrast that with the widows mite), praying loud, long elaborate prayers on the street corners, walking around with ashes on their face like "death warmed over" when they were fasting.


The widow's story just cuts to the quick. Her devotion to God was so sincere, but her life was so hard. It shouldn't have been that impoverished, she was a widow after all. So much OT Scripture asking God why the evil prosper and the righteous suffer and pleading for Him to make it right.

SeattleSun
Mar 5th 2009, 09:06 PM
5. What was wrong with the hypocrites prayed in Jesus' day (v 5)?

6. In what ways do hypcrites pray today?

7. Why and how is our praying to be different (v 6)?

8. How do you think the reward the Father will give us (v 6) differs from the reward we receive from others (v 5)?

SeattleSun
Mar 5th 2009, 10:20 PM
5. What was wrong with the hypocrites prayed in Jesus' day (v 5)?


They glorified themselves - the sin of pride and God did not honor them.


6. In what ways do hypcrites pray today?


"Performance" prayer, more oratory than petition. Self-centeredness, with no (or very little) acknowledgment of sin. WOF comes to mind, with a lack of understanding of who God is. That sounds arrogant on my part.


7. Why and how is our praying to be different (v 6)?


God is our only audience and its to be intimate, even in public. When we come to Him humbly, He hears our thoughts, not necessarily our words if we stuggle with the words. Private prayers are to be just that, private, Spirit led.


8. How do you think the reward the Father will give us (v 6) differs from the reward we receive from others (v 5)?

We are rewarded by entrance into His kingdom. That far exceeds any acclaim, honor or riches given by men.

Matt 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

shepherdsword
Mar 7th 2009, 10:41 PM
5. What was wrong with the hypocrites prayed in Jesus' day (v 5)?

They prayed for outward show. They wanted to appear to be in a spiritual place that they really didn't occupy. I have often wondered about this verse:

Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

It is almost as if Jesus is saying that it is impossible to have faith if you have selfish vainglory and ambition in your heart. This verse should cut to the heart of every saint that desires position or recognition from others.



6. In what ways do hypcrites pray today?

We pray much the way except now we have keener edge to our hypocrisy
We will preach at others in our public prayer and actually address then in the Socratic second person while pretending to speak to God.



7. Why and how is our praying to be different (v 6)?

Our prayer is supposed to come from a place of brokenness and sincerity.
When we recognize our own state of spiritual poverty then we can begin to intercede for the will of the Father to become manifest on the earth.


8. How do you think the reward the Father will give us (v 6) differs from the reward we receive from others (v 5)?

The vainglorious recognition we receive from others can't be compared to the deep fellowship with the Father that gives life and breeds passion. Our Father knows just how to bless in the most supreme way. How can that compare with a pat on the back?;)

SeattleSun
Mar 8th 2009, 12:30 AM
Hey SW! :hug: Here comes more on the same:

9. In v 16 Jesus assumes Christians will fast (although few of us do). Why and how should we fast (vv 16-18)?

10. Fasting was a way that people were trying to seek the approval of others. In what other areas are we tempted to seek the approval of people rather than God?

11. How can this passage help to purify our hearts?

shepherdsword
Mar 8th 2009, 12:53 AM
Hey SW! :hug: Here comes more on the same:

9. In v 16 Jesus assumes Christians will fast (although few of us do). Why and how should we fast (vv 16-18)?

We should of course fast in secret. Fasting is a way to truly mortify the deeds of the body.After a long period of fasting the hungar weakens and we develop a clarity that helps our sensitivity to spiritual things


10. Fasting was a way that people were trying to seek the approval of others. In what other areas are we tempted to seek the approval of people rather than God?

We seek in out social interactions. How many times have we failed to speak a word that the Lord would have us speak because we were afraid of what people would think? How many ministers compromise their message so as not offend big tithers and "church bosses"?



11. How can this passage help to purify our hearts?

If we desire to please God we will not care much for the fear of man. We purify our hearts by separating ourselves from anything that will displease God. Fasting can be more than abstaining from food. Maybe we should turn the TV off and spend more time in prayer and in the word as well.

SeattleSun
Mar 8th 2009, 12:59 AM
9. In v 16 Jesus assumes Christians will fast (although few of us do). Why and how should we fast (vv 16-18)?


Why? That's between God and me, but in a time of trial, testing or struggle. When in deep prayer for seeking His will and His guidance before making a big decision or beginning a new direction in life. How? I don't know of any hard and fast rules, and I don't believe that fasting is limited to food either. Regardless, its like prayer, to be done in secret and not for show. The motives should demonstrate our utter need for God.

My study bible notes indicate that the Pharisees fasted twice a week (interestingly on the days when the farmers made the market extra busy and hence a bigger audience) but that the Law required only 3 fasts a year.


10. Fasting was a way that people were trying to seek the approval of others. In what other areas are we tempted to seek the approval of people rather than God?


Ugh, when I've pleased someone, I've essentially pleased myself and since I'm selfish and self-centered, pleasing myself is always my goal. Well, there's honesty, and I'm very aware of it and that gives me hope that I'll grow in being God-conscious and not self-conscious.


11. How can this passage help to purify our hearts?

Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.

We can't purify our own hearts. We should be motivated to hunger and thirst for righteousness, relying on His strength, His Word, the Spirit and prayer and repentance.

shepherdsword
Mar 8th 2009, 04:25 AM
I am really pressing in to find the grace to walk the sermon on the mount out.:pray:

SeattleSun
Mar 8th 2009, 06:04 PM
I am really pressing in to find the grace to walk the sermon on the mount out.:pray:

Me too. We're to be as perfect as the Father, our only standard.

Rom 16:19 ...but I want you to be wise in what is good and innocent in what is evil.

That's a good start. :)

SeattleSun
Mar 8th 2009, 08:25 PM
This section has 3 extra questions based on Luke 18:9-14, so here they are:

9And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10"Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11"The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12'I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.' 13"But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' 14"I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

How does this story illustrate what Jesus teaches in Matt 6?

When have you acted like the Pharisee in this story?

When have you acted like the tax collector?

SeattleSun
Mar 8th 2009, 11:16 PM
How does this story illustrate what Jesus teaches in Matt 6?


The contrast is between pride and humily. The Pharisee's attitude seems to be that God should be grateful for him and his "righteousness". The tax collector knew there was nothing he could do or say to raise his standing with God, but only God's mercy and grace could deliver him. He was "poor in spirit".


When have you acted like the Pharisee in this story?


This can be such a subtle sin sometimes. Pride is so sneaky and I seem to let it take hold at any opportunity. I can be impatient with a sister for the most shameful reasons in retrospect. Out of my own pride, I've had thoughts about how prideful others appear, missing that plank in my own eye.

1 Cor 10:12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.


When have you acted like the tax collector?

Only when I recognize my own brokeness and how much I need God's love, mercy and grace; to be in His presence, and to be still, knowing HE IS.

shepherdsword
Mar 9th 2009, 03:36 AM
This section has 3 extra questions based on Luke 18:9-14, so here they are:

How does this story illustrate what Jesus teaches in Matt 6?

It shows the tax collector as "poor in spirit" The Pharisee was in this place:
Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues


When have you acted like the Pharisee in this story?I sometimes find myself praying in a prayer meeting concerned about what others would think about my prayer. I have also condemned others when I have seen them engage in a sin that I find particularity heinous .


When have you acted like the tax collector?I find myself in this situation daily. It's hard to go through life knowing the expectations God has of the divine nature he has put within us and seeing the flesh constantly stick it's ugly head up. I have found that the closer I get to God the more wicked my sin appears. I think that's why the application of Gal 2:12 is essential to the walk God desires:

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Only Jesus can walk this out. It's why we must put our flesh to death so he can come forth in us.

SeattleSun
Mar 9th 2009, 06:05 PM
Part 8 - A Pattern for Dynamic Prayer (Matt 6:7-15)

The fundamental difference between various kinds of prayer is the fundamentally different images of God that lie behind them.

Personal Reflection - Imagine that your prayers, like those in the Psalms, were recorded for others to read. What would please learn about your image of God. What are you pleased or encouraged about regarding your prayer life? What area do you struggle with?

The Lord's Prayer was given by Jesus as a model of what genuine Christian prayer should be like. According to Matthew He gave it as a pattern to copy ("This is how you should pray"), and according to Luke He gave it as an actual prayer ("When you pray, say ..."). We are not obliged to choose, however, for we can both use the prayer as it stands and also model our own praying upon it. Either way, Jesus not only teaches us about prayer but also gives us a greater vision of the God we call "Our Father." Read Matt 6:7-15.

7"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8"So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 9"Pray, then, in this way:
'Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10'Your kingdom come
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11'Give us this day our daily bread.
12'And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13'And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]'

14"For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15"But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

SeattleSun
Mar 9th 2009, 06:13 PM
1. What natural divisions do you observe in the Lord's prayer? What is the focus of each?

2. How do pagan prayers (v 7) differ from the persistent prayers Jesus Himself offered (Matt 26:44)?

44And He left them again, and went away and prayed a third time, saying the same thing once more.

3. In what ways might we be guilty of mindless, meaningless prayers?

4. If, as Jesus says in v 8, God already knows what we need, why should Christians pray?

SeattleSun
Mar 9th 2009, 11:27 PM
1. What natural divisions do you observe in the Lord's prayer? What is the focus of each?


Vv 9-10 are directed to God's holiness and sovereignty. Vv 11-13 turns to us asking for His provision, forgiveness and protection.


2. How do pagan prayers (v 7) differ from the persistent prayers Jesus Himself offered (Matt 26:44)?

44And He left them again, and went away and prayed a third time, saying the same thing once more.

Pagan prayers are meaningless, as shown by the Baal priests in 1 Kings 18:26. Persistent prayers that flow from our hearts with all sincerity are appropriate. Jesus uses parables to show this, and Paul prayed three times to have the thorn removed.


3. In what ways might we be guilty of mindless, meaningless prayers?


When we're not engaged in our hearts and come before him with little or no thought to what we're saying or how He hears us.


4. If, as Jesus says in v 8, God already knows what we need, why should Christians pray?

Its a privilege to come before Him with sincerity, purpose and devotion. We share with Him ourselves, and give Him all our worries and fears in faith. He reveals more of Himself to us in return. He calms the storms.

Cloudwalker
Mar 9th 2009, 11:37 PM
Our pastor has started a sermon series on The Lords Prayer. Sunday I preached on "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done." (I posted it in my blog on this site if you are interested). Basic outline would be.

Our Father...address, speaks also of the intimacy of our relationship
Hallowed be....worship section speaks of the holyness of God
Kingdom come, will done...getting our prioritys strait. God before our wants'
Daily bread...needs here (wants possibly also as long as they are in line with the kingdom
Forgive...dealing with the past and our sins
Lead us not...request for future guidence
For thine, etc....end worship section

SeattleSun
Mar 10th 2009, 09:49 PM
5. What does the phrase "Our Father in heaven" tell us about God?

6. What does it mean to "hallow" God's name?

7. God is already King. In what sense are His kingdome and perfect will still in the future?

8. In our self-centered culture we are often preoccupied with our own little name, empire and will rather than God's. How can we combat this tendency?

SeattleSun
Mar 11th 2009, 10:35 PM
5. What does the phrase "Our Father in heaven" tell us about God?


That He's "our" Father and He is actively involved in our lives and all His creation from a seat of power.


6. What does it mean to "hallow" God's name?


To acknowledge His holiness.


7. God is already King. In what sense are His kingdome and perfect will still in the future?


Kingdome? That was imploded ten years ago. :lol:

His Kingdom is invisible now and sin is rampant. Its obvious that Christ has yet to return. When He does, the kingdom will be visible, with Christ reigning and righteousness will abound.


8. In our self-centered culture we are often preoccupied with our own little name, empire and will rather than God's. How can we combat this tendency?

Keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of His Father.

Focus on advancing the kingdom with a commitment to honor and glorify God and prayer for the fulfillment of the Gentiles.

Not our will, but His will.

shepherdsword
Mar 11th 2009, 11:07 PM
5. What does the phrase "Our Father in heaven" tell us about God?

It tells us that he loves us and provides for us just as any father would for his children. It tells us we don;t have to worry or fear because he is in control of every situation that enters out life


6. What does it mean to "hallow" God's name?

It means to have a reverent awe and respect for the one who's name is above every name. It reminds us that even though we are his children,we should not be presumptuous in our relationship with him.


7. God is already King. In what sense are His kingdome and perfect will still in the future?

God is in the process of purging creation of all possibility of rebellion against him. Until that purging is complete there will be conflict between his will and what actually takes place.


8. In our self-centered culture we are often preoccupied with our own little name, empire and will rather than God's. How can we combat this tendency?

The cross is the answer for all selfishness. If we reckon ourselves dead to the world and alive unto God we will live for his Glory alone.

SeattleSun
Mar 12th 2009, 12:38 AM
:wave: Howdy SW! :hug:

I was curious to other responses to 7. I've never thought of your answer about Him now purging.

I don't know what you mean. I know He will certainly purge the earth of the living unrighteous in His time, but is He now? I don't see it. I fear the wrath the abandonment in Rom 1:18-32; God "turning them over".

Dani H
Mar 12th 2009, 03:17 AM
To me, the Kingdom has already come every time a person surrenders to the King and chooses to live under His kingship.

I'm looking forward to the future Kingdom.

But Jesus is King of me now. And I live in His present Kingdom.

We establish His Kingdom by our obedience to the Kingdom laws. His will be done, as readily by us, here on earth, as it is done in heaven already (where God doesn't have to deal with people's obstinations and self-willed desires and so what He says, goes, immediately ... as it should be here as well by those who profess His name).

Cloudwalker
Mar 12th 2009, 03:32 AM
We have to remember that when Christ started His ministry He started by preaching "the kingdom of God is at hand." That means the kingdom is NOW. He also said "my kingdom is not of this world" at His trial. His kingome will come in a visable form here on earth eventually. Meanwhile, we ARE the kingdom.

shepherdsword
Mar 12th 2009, 03:37 AM
:wave: Howdy SW! :hug:

I was curious to other responses to 7. I've never thought of your answer about Him now purging.

I don't know what you mean. I know He will certainly purge the earth of the living unrighteous in His time, but is He now? I don't see it. I fear the wrath the abandonment in Rom 1:18-32; God "turning them over".

You are right. He is turning many over to their wickedness. This is so that the fullness of iniquity will be manifested. God is allowing evil to come to it's full flower so that it can be shown for what it is. This will show his righteousness in judging it. I guess we miscommunicated on what I meant by "purging" I don't mean that he is eliminating evil at this very moment. I mean that in the grand scheme of things this current age is one of the many steps in showing his justice and glory to all of creation. This will eventually result in the total purging of all evil and rebellion from creation. Once this process is complete( This will be right after Satan is loosed after being bound for 1000 years) then there will never be any rebellion or evil again. We shall then all live together in harmony with God forever. This is ,of course how I understand it. I make no claims to be an expert in eschatology

Dani H
Mar 12th 2009, 04:56 AM
I make no claims to be an expert in eschatology

Pfff. ology ... schmology. Just follow the King and live in His Kingdom. That way, when He does return, you'll just be greeting an old friend.

Rabbit trail 1:

I actually pray the Lord's Prayer with my kid every night. It's our special time and I do think it's meant to be prayed (not recited, but prayed). Great foundation! Especially for new believers and little ones.

Rabbit trail 2:

I was just thinking again today about the difference between being a person who trusts God and becoming that person God can trust.

Can He trust us with souls, I wonder?

The only purging I personally see of unrighteousness is that within me.

Ugh.

Even so, come Lord Jesus. Amen.

shepherdsword
Mar 12th 2009, 05:31 AM
Rabbit trail 2:

I was just thinking again today about the difference between being a person who trusts God and becoming that person God can trust.

Can He trust us with souls, I wonder?

The only purging I personally see of unrighteousness is that within me.

Ugh.

Even so, come Lord Jesus. Amen.

You call THAT a rabbit trail? I call it an important question. One that makes me think...can God trust me? You know, I actually feel that this is a question I need to seriously consider. Would I appear to be too mystical If I said that I can feel God's presence as I read this post?

Dani H
Mar 12th 2009, 03:37 PM
You call THAT a rabbit trail? I call it an important question. One that makes me think...can God trust me? You know, I actually feel that this is a question I need to seriously consider. Would I appear to be too mystical If I said that I can feel God's presence as I read this post?

Not at all, and God be with you as you allow Him to transform you into that person. :hug:

I first ran across this when I read about Moses being a friend of God. And I wondered what that must be like? To talk to God face to face, to be entrusted with His secrets and to surrender ourselves in such a way that we can love an entire displaced mob of people for 40 years in some wilderness as God loves them, carrying the promise of God with us that whole time while seeing very little of it actually being brought to pass, yet laboring towards that end because He asked us to? Because we understand we serve an eternal God who can use whatever legacy we leave and whichever seeds we sow, far beyond our brief sojourn here, to build something that affects generations after us? Hebrews states that none of those saints back then obtained the fulfillment of the promise we have today, but they carried it with them nonetheless as God used them and their part in it, to bring it to pass. I wonder what our promise is? Because there's always a promise.

I know that many of the blessings we reap today are a result of something that was sown hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago, by people long gone. How are we to conduct ourselves in the light of such a rich legacy we have been left with? How can we not carry it on, whatever it costs us? That's the kind of stuff that makes me tremble and that inspires me to be such a person who leaves something for God to use even after I'm long gone. You know, that seed that falls into the ground and dies and becomes that tree that nourishes many, for a very long time, that remains beyond physical death because death is never the end when we serve the God of the Resurrection. :)

Building His Kingdom. In reality, and practicality. Today. And forever. On the cornerstone that is Jesus and foundation of the apostles and prophets and the living stones of those saints gone before us, to see to it that they did not labor in vain and to guard that legacy entrusted to us. For the glory of the King.

Our Father in Heaven.
Hallowed be Your name.
Your Kingdom come.
Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Amen.

SeattleSun
Mar 12th 2009, 08:16 PM
:wave:

Good stuff going on. Can I add later? My mom fell down last night, hard. She'll be okay, but just got back from the hospital. :(

She's home, exhausted and thankfully nothing broken in those brittle hips. I'm a bit spent too.

Cloudwalker
Mar 12th 2009, 09:41 PM
:wave:

Good stuff going on. Can I add later? My mom fell down last night, hard. She'll be okay, but just got back from the hospital. :(

She's home, exhausted and thankfully nothing broken in those brittle hips. I'm a bit spent too.

Glad she's ok. Go ahead and rest. We'll be here when you get back.

SeattleSun
Mar 12th 2009, 11:22 PM
You are right. He is turning many over to their wickedness. This is so that the fullness of iniquity will be manifested. God is allowing evil to come to it's full flower so that it can be shown for what it is. This will show his righteousness in judging it. I guess we miscommunicated on what I meant by "purging" I don't mean that he is eliminating evil at this very moment. I mean that in the grand scheme of things this current age is one of the many steps in showing his justice and glory to all of creation. This will eventually result in the total purging of all evil and rebellion from creation. Once this process is complete( This will be right after Satan is loosed after being bound for 1000 years) then there will never be any rebellion or evil again. We shall then all live together in harmony with God forever. This is ,of course how I understand it. I make no claims to be an expert in eschatology

Thanks for the clarification! I really thought that was what you meant. Here's a thought, when Christ died on the cross, all of man's anger was vented at God by what we did to His Son, and God responded with Love. Lightning flashed, the earth shook and the veil of the temple was torn in two. It was righteousness against man's wickedness and righteousness won.

Is it the opposite when He returns? By that I mean God's wrath is vented, man's anger is meaningless. The temple veil doesn't need to be torn in two, man had his chance to have peace with God and rejected Him. Sure, men will curse God but its too late for most. I know people will be saved so the Spirit will still be active. Righteousness will win again.

Jesus the man of sorrows to King of kings, Lord of lords! :pp

SeattleSun
Mar 12th 2009, 11:43 PM
Hey Dani!



I first ran across this when I read about Moses being a friend of God. And I wondered what that must be like?


And David being a man after God's own heart? And Enoch walking so close to God that He took him? Abraham in all honesty has always been a bit of a mystery to me, why him? He had faith before works, lol, and its his works that come to mind. David and Abraham, and of course Enoch were all sinners, just like us.

Is it as simple as obeying? There's really nothing else that I can do, and He doesn't even need that, I mean, there's nothing I can do for God! But I want to do something for Him! He tells me He delights in my prayers although He knows my heart and desires and needs better than I do.

Dani, your whole post is just so ... ponder worthy! To also realize the legacy left for us and to honor it by leaving our own legacies in some way. To be the shining city and the salt of the earth, even if we only touch one person.

Dani H
Mar 13th 2009, 05:25 PM
Just FYI, this is what this study inspired (speaking of legacy and unity):

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=161165

Come join in. :)

SeattleSun
Mar 13th 2009, 10:04 PM
Just FYI, this is what this study inspired (speaking of legacy and unity):

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=161165

Come join in. :)

That's an inspiring thread. I stand in agreement!

SeattleSun
Mar 13th 2009, 10:08 PM
9. Some early commentators allegorized the word "bread", assuming that Jesus could not be referring to something as mundane as our physical needs. Why is it perfectly appropriate to pay for our actual "daily bread"?

10. How is our heavenly Father's forgiveness related to our forgiving others?

11. If God cannot tempt us and trials are beneficial (Jam 1:2,13), then what is the meaning of v 13?

12. In what ways do your prayers need to more closely resemble this model prayer?

shepherdsword
Mar 14th 2009, 03:06 PM
9. Some early commentators allegorized the word "bread", assuming that Jesus could not be referring to something as mundane as our physical needs. Why is it perfectly appropriate to pay for our actual "daily bread"?

You mean "pray" right? Jesus said we do not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.He once preached a sermon telling others that unless they ate his flesh and drank his blood they wouldn't have life in them. This was a pretty heavy statement that we sometimes take for granted. How would you respond to a teacher that instructed you to eat his flesh and drink his blood? While there may be some connection to communion in his statement it is deeper even that that. He is telling us that we must be totally sustained by him. Our utter dependence is manifested by our need to consume the word for daily subsidence. His blood is our drink and by consuming it we recognize that it is only by this blood alone that we can be made holy. His flesh,which we eat,is the only food that can bring us from a selfish infantile state of discipleship to a mature,self crucified,disciple who is AS his master.


10. How is our heavenly Father's forgiveness related to our forgiving others?Our attitude of forgiveness towards others is evidence of two things
1) Is shows if his grace has merley covered our sin or if it has resulted in an actual transformation into his image. If we are simply covered then we go on our way in confidence and demand justice from all who wrong us. However,if this great love that he has shown is has resulted in our brokenness and subsequent transformation then how would it be possible to act any other way than the way the father acted?
2) Our forgiveness is an indicator of our love.
Has anyone considered the deep implications of this verse?

Joh 20:23 If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven. If you retain people's sins, they are retained."

If we have real love then we are prepared to overlook petty offences for the sake of the person's eternal destiny


11. If God cannot tempt us and trials are beneficial (Jam 1:2,13), then what is the meaning of v 13?

We need to understand that there is no there is no other moment in our eternal existence that has greater potential for God's glory than NOW
This is the only time in our existence that we are privileged to SUFFER.
In our future there will be no suffering. We will have all we want. But NOW we can know him in a special way that we can't experience then.
We know him through the fellowship of his suffering:

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

This goes beyond some little teaching doesn't it? If we are to walk in this it means we give up our life. Think about this...we MUST give up OUR life if we want to know HIS life. There is no other way but the cross. The cross is a place where he gave ALL for ME and therefor I must give ALL for HIM.
This is the TRUE message of the gospel. If we have recieved any other signal concerning how we recieve eternal life then it isn't coming from Jesus. Jesus said this:

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.


This doesn't leave much to doubt as to what the requirements are for disipleship does it? So this brings us back to your original question.
Why should we count it all joy when we are tested?Because it is through this testing that we learn to take up our cross and die to enter into true fellowship with him.



12. In what ways do your prayers need to more closely resemble this model prayer? I confess that I never model this prayer. I guess I rejected it because in catholic school I had to chant it every day without any real heart felt reality. When I rejected catholicism I also rejected anything that I thought might be religious tradition. However, I think I should model the prayer not by babbling the prayer in some repetitious manner like a parrot but by praying it's essence in words that describe my own situation.

Dani H
Mar 14th 2009, 03:59 PM
I confess that I never model this prayer. I guess I rejected it because in catholic school I had to chant it every day without any real heart felt reality. When I rejected catholicism I also rejected anything that I thought might be religious tradition. However, I think I should model the prayer not by babbling the prayer in some repetitious manner like a parrot but by praying it's essence in words that describe my own situation.

You know, I went through the same thing. I grew up with the Lord's Prayer, being recited, in school and in church. And so it became trivial to me, and a bit of a chore. Then when I was saved, I read through a book that went through it step by step as an outline to build our prayer lives on, and I went "oh okay this is kinda neat, let's try that".

In more recent times, I've taken to praying it with my son every night. We're not reciting it, we're praying it together, and I'm learning to appreciate its simplicity, its straightforwardness, and its absolute foundational truth. These are the words of Jesus! I started the prayer thread on the Lord's Prayer because it has just grown so very precious to me lately and I've gained a whole new appreciation of it, to where I'm almost full circle with it now, which is wonderful, I think. When I pray it, it connects my past and present and I can connect with everyone who is praying it, has been praying it through the century, and bring it before the Father as an offering to Him. And I imagine that must make Him very pleased, when we can disregard our differences, and connect ourselves with our family in Christ in such a simple, foundational way, based on the Lord's own words.

I pray you come full circle with me, I really do. It's been pretty great. :hug:

SeattleSun
Mar 14th 2009, 05:11 PM
Good morning!

Its good to compare Acts 4:23-31 and the Lord's Prayer. God's image and character are evident in both.

SW! Great response, but you skipped "11". I'm not sure how to answer it.



11. If God cannot tempt us and trials are beneficial (Jam 1:2,13), then what is the meaning of v 13?



Does it mean to pray to avoid temptation in the first place so we don't have to deal with overcoming it? I'm not making much sense! God Himself detests sin, so He certainly doesn't want to look at us when we sin. He's given us every resource to avoid it, flee it or overcome it. Our own flesh lets us be enticed to sin and our faith and trust lets us not sin if we chose that.

Dani H
Mar 14th 2009, 05:34 PM
Honestly, I think that's better translated "And don't let us be led into temptation". God doesn't create temptation, we're led by our own desires and cravings, according to James. The Word is very clear that temptation is originated within ourselves, and reinforced by the evil (one) to trip us up.

I have a literal translation of the Bible and it skips the word "do" (referring to God). It just states "And not lead us into temptation but deliver us from evil". Then again, I don't do Greek so I'm not sure, but that would certainly make more sense to me than asking God to not lead us there, as if we were asking Him not to tempt us (which He doesn't do).

So that verse then, to me, refers to the keeping power of God and the delivering power of God, to not only keep us from running to temptation, but to also deliver us from the evil that always lurks to destroy our walk with Him.

Then again, in my own walk, I have experienced God actively and on purpose bringing me right up to that point of temptation (when I'd personally rather avoid it), making me confront it and deal with it, and then delivering me.

And so what do I know?

Nothing much. :rolleyes:

shepherdsword
Mar 14th 2009, 09:44 PM
Good morning!

Its good to compare Acts 4:23-31 and the Lord's Prayer. God's image and character are evident in both.

SW! Great response, but you skipped "11". I'm not sure how to answer it.



Does it mean to pray to avoid temptation in the first place so we don't have to deal with overcoming it? I'm not making much sense! God Himself detests sin, so He certainly doesn't want to look at us when we sin. He's given us every resource to avoid it, flee it or overcome it. Our own flesh lets us be enticed to sin and our faith and trust lets us not sin if we chose that.

I left out a quote tag and I think I misunderstood the question as well. For some reason I thought the question dealt with James 1:2 and 13

My response was geared to explain why we should count it all joy. Now that you and Dani have addressed the proper question in Mt 6:13 I see my error...apologies. heh, I do think I explained James 1:2 pretty well though:lol:

SeattleSun
Mar 14th 2009, 11:46 PM
I left out a quote tag and I think I misunderstood the question as well. For some reason I thought the question dealt with James 1:2 and 13

My response was geared to explain why we should count it all joy. Now that you and Dani have addressed the proper question in Mt 6:13 I see my error...apologies. heh, I do think I explained James 1:2 pretty well though:lol:

LOL! You always explain yourself well! :hug: Thanks for bringing Philippians into the discussion. Its so weird to count suffering to JOY! And to try to explain it to an unbeliever ... I sound like a lunatic! That's okay, we're set apart and we're supposed to be different.

1 Cor 10:13 God is faithful, who will not not allow you to be tempted beyond what your are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

Temptation comes in a flash, I don't even realize it until its too late to avoid. If I don't recognize it, that door opens wide and I'll walk right in. This section of the study has made me truly see that in myself, how blindly I can walk sometimes. I've learned that this phrase, in this prayer I sincerely need to practice. And He is faithful!

Jam 4:7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

I need to keep the "roaring lion" in my mind and be alert. Spiritual warfare isn't always some huge battle with massive armies. It includes little skirmishes too, those things we deal with daily and have grown accustomed to. Skirmishes are still part of the big picture in a war. Lose enough of those, and things don't look good. But God takes all evil and uses it for His good.

We serve an awesome God!

SeattleSun
Mar 16th 2009, 09:22 PM
Part 9 - What God Thinks of My Ambitions - Matt 6:19-34

Everyone is ambitious to be or to do something. Childhood ambitions tend to follow certain stereotypes -- to be an athlete, astronaut or movie star. Adults have their own narrow stereotypes too -- to be wealthy, famous or powerful.

Personal reflection: What power has the spell of materialism held over you? How has it been hard to break?

Will Christian faith make a difference as you set your ambitions? In this passage Jesus helps us to choose well. He points out the folly of the wrong way and the wisdom of the right. Then He invites us to compare them and decide for ourselves.

Matt 6:19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

20"But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal;
21for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.
23"But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
24"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other You cannot serve God and wealth. 25"For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

26"Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
27"And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?
28"And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin,
29yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these.
30"But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith!
31"Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?'
32"For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
33"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. 34"So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

SeattleSun
Mar 16th 2009, 09:26 PM
1. What, according to Jesus, are the most important things in life.

2. Why would we store up heavenly trasures rather than earthly ones?

Does this mean that we cannot have personal property, savings accounts or insurance policies? Explain.

3. Practically speaking, how can we store up treasure in heaven?

4. How are physical and spiritual sight (or blindness) similar?

5. Many people hold two jobs and are able to satisfy two bosses. So why would Jesus say that it is impossible to serve two masters -- God and money?

3janis3
Mar 17th 2009, 02:11 AM
1. Living for Him is the most important thing in life, according to Jesus....we need to live for Him, which includes sharing His Word.
2.We should store up heavenly treasures rather than earthly ones, because Heavenly ones are the ones that will last and really have more value, even if it isn't monetary value.\
3. We can store up treasures in Heaven by living for Him....serving the Lord.
4. Hmmm.....we can't see the way.
5. Yes, people hold two jobs and serve both bosses....but one at a time. They leave one job and go to the other. When we serve God, it is a 24/7 thing. When we serve God, He wants us to give our all....there would be nothing left for another master.

Vhayes
Mar 17th 2009, 03:28 AM
1. What, according to Jesus, are the most important things in life.
To love the Lord your God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself.


2. Why would we store up heavenly trasures rather than earthly ones?
Heavenly treasures not only last for eternity, they are handed out by our Father - what a present! Also, if we spend our time while here building up earthly treasures we will not have as much available time to build the heavenly ones.


Does this mean that we cannot have personal property, savings accounts or insurance policies? Explain.
No - we can and should have those, if possible. It's all Gods property anyway. If He gives me the means to build a savings account to assist with emergencies, then who am I to say no? We are to be good stewards of those things He goves us to work with, no matter what they are. By the same token, if I save everything I make and watch a person walk by my house every day without an adequate coat, I have a serious "heart" problem.


3. Practically speaking, how can we store up treasure in heaven?
By following the lead of the Holy Spirit. He does "talk" to us if we listen. Some deeds could be mighty, most deeds will be small - but the Lord rewards those things unseen by men.


4. How are physical and spiritual sight (or blindness) similar?
I can describe the color red to a physically blind person but if he/she has never "seen" it, experienced it, it will always be nothing more than mere words. The same is true with spiritual truths; unless someone experiences first hand the love of God, whatever I say to them will be just words. Look at Nicodemus and Jesus - it's a perfect example.

My personal experience has been that unbelievers ask me about why I am so "happy" all the time. Why am I so "kind" - they see the fruit of the Spirit and want to know what it is - they recognize it as something they desire but they have no idea how to attain it or even what it actually is. They think it's something I "do". When I tell them the good news of the gospel, some listen and question - most tell me that's just tooooooo easy, there has to be something more.


5. Many people hold two jobs and are able to satisfy two bosses. So why would Jesus say that it is impossible to serve two masters -- God and money?
You shall love the Lord with all your heart. To me, that means not just money but anything that would try to take the priority in life be it family, spouse, church membership, your profession, television, whatever. If God is your true Master, all else falls into its correct place and priority.

SeattleSun
Mar 17th 2009, 03:44 AM
Welcome janis and V!

What is exactly "treasure in heaven"?

Our names our written in His Book of Life, and there's crowns, which we'll cast down. Rewards? Lol, heaven is enough IMO. Scripture speaks of rewards in the Millenium Kingdom, and I want them!

But is my heart receptive?

Dani H
Mar 17th 2009, 05:01 PM
Our crowns and treasures are people. :)

SeattleSun
Mar 17th 2009, 05:58 PM
Our crowns and treasures are people. :)

Our crowns are rewards received at the Judgment Seat.

1 Cor 3:14If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

There's five crowns:

1 Cor 9:24Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

1 Thess 2:19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming?

2 Tim 4:7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Jam 1:12Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

Rev 2:10'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

1 Pet 5:2shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. 4And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

Where in Scripture are rewards people?

Dani H
Mar 17th 2009, 06:39 PM
Where in Scripture are rewards people?



Philippians 4:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=57&chapter=4&verse=1&version=50&context=verse)
Therefore, my beloved and longed-for brethren, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, beloved.
1 Thessalonians 2:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=59&chapter=2&verse=19&version=50&context=verse)
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?

:)

SeattleSun
Mar 17th 2009, 06:51 PM
Philippians 4:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=57&chapter=4&verse=1&version=50&context=verse)
Therefore, my beloved and longed-for brethren, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, beloved.
1 Thessalonians 2:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=59&chapter=2&verse=19&version=50&context=verse)
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?
:)

We both use the 1 Thess verse, and like the Philippians verse, they speak of Paul's works in winning souls for the Lord, its a crown available to evangelists. The people are the fruits of their labor.

shepherdsword
Mar 17th 2009, 07:29 PM
What ever crown we get we will cast them at his feet!:pp

Dani H
Mar 17th 2009, 07:55 PM
Well, here's the thing.

a) Jesus is getting all my crowns (because was it not for Him, there wouldn't be any).
b) I can't even begin to imagine what the "treasures" or "rewards" are going to be. I've no clue what's going to happen when I finally stand in God's presence for all eternity. All we get from the Bible are glimpses.

Of course I'm often going "well, wouldn't it be neat if ..." as I imagine what it's going to be like. But I really don't know. Really, I only have one head. How many crowns can I stack on the thing before they begin to tip over? (corny, isn't it? that's the things I think of, haha)

I really also think that the New Jerusalem isn't an actual city. I think it's the Church, and it's made up of people. The precious, living stones of His city where He dwells. Could it be an actual city? Who knows? Do you know? I don't. It's possible. But my brain starts to explode when I try to imagine it. :)

Because the Bible, is a story of God and His people. That's the whole book, beginning to end, in a nutshell. God does stuff, people do stuff, God does more stuff, people do their thing, God intervenes, and so on and so forth. Anything else, really, is ancillary.

And so, to me, from where I stand right now, the only realistic thing I can take to heaven with me, are people that I pray for and win for Christ. That I can somehow contribute to, becoming citizens of the Kingdom. They're not for me, either; they're for Jesus and His reward for His labor. They are that debt I owe Him for what He did for me.

I'm not arguing with you, nor am I disagreeing. I'm just putting in my own angle on it. :hug:

Cloudwalker
Mar 17th 2009, 10:13 PM
I really also think that the New Jerusalem isn't an actual city. I think it's the Church, and it's made up of people. The precious, living stones of His city where He dwells. Could it be an actual city? Who knows? Do you know? I don't. It's possible. But my brain starts to explode when I try to imagine it. :)

:hug:

For a good study on the New Jerusalem I would suggest The Footsteps of the Messiah by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum. It is a very good study of all the end times prophecys. Dr. F. is a Messianic Jew and he is convinced that the book of Rev. was written as a skelliton to hang the mussels and skin of all the other prophecys on. He has an entire section on the New Jerusalem.

Dani H
Mar 17th 2009, 10:39 PM
For a good study on the New Jerusalem I would suggest The Footsteps of the Messiah by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum. It is a very good study of all the end times prophecys. Dr. F. is a Messianic Jew and he is convinced that the book of Rev. was written as a skelliton to hang the mussels and skin of all the other prophecys on. He has an entire section on the New Jerusalem.

Ooo I will check that out, thanks!

I need to put a list together of books I really want to read but keep forgetting to look for. :rolleyes:

Cloudwalker
Mar 17th 2009, 11:48 PM
I'll warn you it's VERY big. But it is good. Several of us here did a study on it. I don't agree with everything but it is good.

shepherdsword
Mar 18th 2009, 04:12 PM
I really also think that the New Jerusalem isn't an actual city. I think it's the Church, and it's made up of people. The precious, living stones of His city where He dwells. Could it be an actual city? Who knows? Do you know? I don't. It's possible. But my brain starts to explode when I try to imagine it. :)

:hug:


Did you ever read this?

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1995515#post1995515

Read it when you get some time.

Dani H
Mar 18th 2009, 04:58 PM
Did you ever read this?

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1995515#post1995515

Read it when you get some time.

Beautiful. And spot on. Thank you. How did I not see this when you posted it? Grr.

If you ever want to read a wonderful book regarding this very thing, read "The Divine Romance" by Gene Edwards. Don't read it for theology or doctrine, read it for the heart of God towards His people. Simply mindblowing.

Dani H
Mar 25th 2009, 05:45 PM
What happened? Where did everyone go? Is everyone okay? Are we done?

Sonja, is your mom okay? I was thinking of you yesterday. :hug:

shepherdsword
Mar 26th 2009, 03:56 AM
We still have a quite a way to go if we follow the study fully. We get a lull every once in a while when SS is too busy to post anything

BibleLover4
Sep 30th 2009, 01:53 PM
I love the encouraging words Jesus gave us from the scripture in Matthew 6:25-27 in his famous Sermon on the Mount which states regarding being anxious about life in general :

Verse 25 "For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?
Verse 26 "Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
Verse 27 "And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?

Being a Christian AND living in this stressful world can be very daunting at best but when I have words of enouragment like this it helps me cope just a little bit better.


:)

JohnH
Nov 5th 2009, 01:47 AM
Yes, it is amazing how encouraging our loving God is even when he is refocusing the Law of Moses back to the humanly impossible. This was the over all purpose of the Sermon on the Mount. The Jewish leadership had twisted the Law of Moses into a means for salvation (in their way of thinking, that is). The Law of Moses was to establish what sin is, what the minimum requirement for righteousness is, and how utterly impossible it is for man to achieve. It forces us to abandon justice for mercy.

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Not that we are lawless... there is a higher law:

1 Corinthians 9:19-21
19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from Godís law but am under Christís law), so as to win those not having the law.