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View Full Version : Please Help i posed this to friends: why don't you believe in God?



ilovemetal
Jan 18th 2009, 01:13 AM
here's some replies. i'm looking for feed back, and yes, i realize many 'arguments' givin are brutally baseless.

In the case of a Christian god, I find the bible to be vastly contradictory and in most cases a poor moral compass. The case for evolution seems to be extremely strong in contrast to the alternatives and the motives and actions of the Catholic church in regards to homosexuality, abortion, misogyny, molestation and totalitarian regimes (for starters), deplorable.

I find the argument for feeling the presence of the holy spirit as proof of a divine being very weak. I've felt spiritual (for lack of a better term seeing as the concept of spirit is pretty rocky for me) awakenings in the past and have never felt the need to equate them with an all seeing creator. I've been brought to tears by natural phenomenon and have never been prompted to ascribe to them some supernatural explanation.

As for Jewish and Islamic god, they are pretty much the same guy (not gal because in these religions women suck) as the Christian faith just with a different set of dogmatic notions attached to him.

The monotheisms of this planet are all following, essentially, the same leader yet they feel the need to quabble amongst themselves to the detriment of the entire race.

As far as a god that is the unknown, unseen magic in the universe remaining so far unexplained? I figure we can call that any number of things besides god. I vote for Ted.

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there's lots of evidence to support ufo's or other aliens to be percived as gods by ancient civlizations. ezeikels flying wheel, and other stuff in the old testament. plus renderings in art and heiroglyphics.

im sounding like a total quack but hey it's possible.

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its not that I don't believe in a god(s) or and all encompassing force...
its the specific religions and their divisive nature that repel me from belief or blind faith in a contradictory gospel or specific god head.

I recommend reading...
The Hero With a Thousand Faces -By Joseph Campbell

This book discusses what Campbell termed the monomyth -- the cycle of the journey of the hero(prophet)...its a gooder.

ps XXX-you ain't no quack...Aliens totally exist...so do inter dimensional entities.

just watch the "news"..."they" are gonna announce real soon that life has been found on Mars! even if its just microbes or bacteria...
its baby steps to the big announcement that we aren't alone in the universe.

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I'm not as well spken as Mr. Maguire, but i do have my own thoughts on the subject. I feel that the belief in God, or A god is based in fear of the unknown. Religion loooks to a book written thousands of years ago to exlain everyday problems. People's problems are as People take the book as fact, when it is really someone elses interpretation they are believing. I dont have any specific examples, but i work with a die hard christian, and we often have debates on the subject. There are many instances where I see the same lines of scripture could mean something completely different than the "truth".

Science also tries to find explainations to the everyday. But these are not based on millenia old interpretations, but physical evidence. Granted, most people have no understanding of all the crazy concepts behind the science, but thats because most people aren't that curious as to why there IS gravity. Just content knowing it IS.

Religion os for people that don't have faith in themselves, and need to justify their actions good or bad to what they believe is a higher power. The billions of years of the universe are not going to be explained away in a single book with the reason being "and saw that it was good"

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I dont belive in god because there are so many people who think they are worshiping the real god and who's to say that the real scriptures aren't still hidden under a big stump somewhere?

Also I think its makes you a better person if you do good good things without thinking of who is watching or thinking f some possibility of reward.

That said. I would probably accept judiasm if it weren't for the lobotomies or circumsisions or whatever.

B.


i'm going to compile these and more if i get them into a basic overall statment of why christianity makes more logical sence, but for now, any imput will be appreciated.

Athanasius
Jan 18th 2009, 01:17 AM
Well, none of those reasons are, after examined, valid :P

ilovemetal
Jan 18th 2009, 01:22 AM
haha, yes, ovbiously...
:P

Romber
Jan 18th 2009, 01:39 AM
Interesting. I guarantee most of these people have never read the bible-which should be a crime considering some of the responses.

What kind of reaction do you think I would get if I said I don't believe in Evolutionary Theory (which I don't), but then later admit I have never read a single book about the subject?

Athanasius
Jan 18th 2009, 01:44 AM
haha, yes, ovbiously...
:P

What are you looking for, responses to these objections?

ilovemetal
Jan 18th 2009, 02:59 AM
some help would be good i suppose yes.

Ixthus
Jan 18th 2009, 03:03 AM
Interesting. I guarantee most of these people have never read the bible-which should be a crime considering some of the responses.

What kind of reaction do you think I would get if I said I don't believe in Evolutionary Theory (which I don't), but then later admit I have never read a single book about the subject?

That is a great point

Romber
Jan 18th 2009, 01:12 PM
In the case of a Christian god, I find the bible to be vastly contradictory and in most cases a poor moral compass. The case for evolution seems to be extremely strong in contrast to the alternatives and the motives and actions of the Catholic church in regards to homosexuality, abortion, misogyny, molestation and totalitarian regimes (for starters), deplorable.

I have a feeling this guy is only repeating what he has seen on some website. If he truly was interested, instead of making a bias remark, I believe he would of searched for answers to contradictions in the Bible. Instead he takes what he wants to find and runs with it. I don't know where he gets the bible is a poor moral compass. Morality as we know it derives from the Bible-so whatever his morals are must be poor then. Funny he should complain about moralities of the bible, when he turns around and believes in Evolution where there truly is no morality (we are only here for reproduction and death-where is any morality in that?)

Romber
Jan 18th 2009, 01:16 PM
there's lots of evidence to support ufo's or other aliens to be percived as gods by ancient civlizations. ezeikels flying wheel, and other stuff in the old testament. plus renderings in art and heiroglyphics.

im sounding like a total quack but hey it's possible.

This is a very common practice. Look at Aaron and the Israelites when Moses took a *tad* to long in the mountain-they made a Bull to worship. Saying that people worshipped idols back then does not translate to them being aliens. I'm not to sure what evidence this guy speaks of, but we have never found Aliens. Period.

Athanasius
Jan 18th 2009, 06:44 PM
I have a feeling this guy is only repeating what he has seen on some website. If he truly was interested, instead of making a bias remark, I believe he would of searched for answers to contradictions in the Bible. Instead he takes what he wants to find and runs with it. I don't know where he gets the bible is a poor moral compass. Morality as we know it derives from the Bible-so whatever his morals are must be poor then. Funny he should complain about moralities of the bible, when he turns around and believes in Evolution where there truly is no morality (we are only here for reproduction and death-where is any morality in that?)

Indeed, he undermines his entire position in returning to an evolutionary world view (don't like the explanation, deny it exists ). However, I would be careful so as to not presuppose as much as you have. Sure, this guy might only be repeating what he was taught, or seen on a website, but it [I]could be that he also searched for answers to these contradictions and didn't find them satisfactory. Could also be that he got these ideas from school or a friend or parent who has training in religious or theological study. Or like you said, could be that he watched Zeitgeist and that was the clincher.

Regarding your morality comment, are you sure? Is the morality of the Western world largely the morality of the Bible anymore? Slowly but surely social contract theory is taking morality as predicated on the Bible and predicating it instead on social consciousness. Morality can be based on anything, what I want to be clear on is that unless it's based on God's word, it's irrational and leads to living a life of dichotomy.

Most people are ignorant of the conclusions of their choices, don't suppose it's all so obvious to them, even if it is to you.

BroRog
Jan 18th 2009, 07:05 PM
I must say that you must have a lot of courage and trusting friends to bring up such a subject in today's world. Way to go.

Romber
Jan 18th 2009, 10:21 PM
Regarding your morality comment, are you sure? Is the morality of the Western world largely the morality of the Bible anymore?

The morality much of this nation was built on was from the Bible. Morality in general is from God, as he is the creator. Like you said, if it isn't from God, it is a corruption of morality and not true morals. I would say the morality of the Western world is deteriorating very fast, as the evolutionary world view is becoming permeated in everything. I can't stress it enough, but evolution removes any morals whatsoever from life-if that's how you believe we came about.

Athanasius
Jan 18th 2009, 10:47 PM
The morality much of this nation was built on was from the Bible. Morality in general is from God, as he is the creator. Like you said, if it isn't from God, it is a corruption of morality and not true morals. I would say the morality of the Western world is deteriorating very fast, as the evolutionary world view is becoming permeated in everything. I can't stress it enough, but evolution removes any morals whatsoever from life-if that's how you believe we came about.

I definitely agree; that innate moral compass everyone seems to speak of is definitely from God, part of man, even in our fallen state. With that said, a 'false' moral code is still a moral code (that is, a code of morality that goes against the moral order of creation). As Christians we start with God and move outward. The world starts with man and moves outward. The latter results in the absurd.

The bourgeois adopt evolution as a world view and state, "life is what you make it"; having been fed this [lie] by the elite. This for them is enough of a statement to predicate their moral code upon, their world view and whatever else it is they feel they need to live and survive. Philosophically it's a damnable, untenable position and yet relativism, the myth of progress and the "truth" of opinion have made this view perfectly acceptable - what's good for society; what creates happiness and minimizes suffering.

People don't understand that the basis for their world view - evolutionary or not - simply doesn't exist; they're stuck in mid air. I wouldn't say evolution removes morals, but it does remove the basis for them which begs the question, 'why your moral code over mine'?

Romber
Jan 18th 2009, 11:17 PM
Yes, well said Xel'Naga. I couldn't agree more.

Philemon9
Jan 19th 2009, 06:09 AM
Those scientists and their dang evolutionary conspiracy. I still can't figure out how this lie is collaborated by 99.9% of the scientific community. And who keeps planting the evidence and how are they doing it? I need some answers

Athanasius
Jan 19th 2009, 06:14 AM
Those scientists and their dang evolutionary conspiracy. I still can't figure out how this lie is collaborated by 99.9% of the scientific community. And who keeps planting the evidence and how are they doing it? I need some answers

Not to derail the thread, but...

I think the "lie" is corroborated by the majority of the scientific community because we've (they've) observed evolution (of the "micro" kind, of course). I'm fairly positive no one is planting evidence.

Romber
Jan 19th 2009, 01:33 PM
I need some answers

Answersingenesis.com

Itinerant Lurker
Jan 19th 2009, 04:30 PM
Pseudoscience refers to research that superficially appears to be science (http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Science) but that lacks some of the underlying key aspects. Often, these include components such as peer review (http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Peer_Review), publication, replication, or important methodological practices such as experimentation, proper controls, the use of a placebo (http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Placebo), and so forth.
http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Pseudoscience

ilovemetal
Jan 19th 2009, 08:55 PM
Answersingenesis.com

good site, pretty basic tho, but good.

John146
Jan 19th 2009, 09:11 PM
its not that I don't believe in a god(s) or and all encompassing force...
its the specific religions and their divisive nature that repel me from belief or blind faith in a contradictory gospel or specific god head.Is it really the "religions and their divisive nature" that keeps him from believing or his own belief that the gospel is contradictory? The former blames others for his unbelief, which is lame. The latter shows that he is the one that doesn't believe and it has nothing to do with others being divisive and things like that.



I'm not as well spken as Mr. Maguire, but i do have my own thoughts on the subject. I feel that the belief in God, or A god is based in fear of the unknown. Religion loooks to a book written thousands of years ago to exlain everyday problems. People's problems are as People take the book as fact, when it is really someone elses interpretation they are believing. I dont have any specific examples, but i work with a die hard christian, and we often have debates on the subject. There are many instances where I see the same lines of scripture could mean something completely different than the "truth". He doesn't have any specific examples, but somehow he just knows that the Bible isn't true. Clearly spoken by someone who has not read much of the Bible.


Science also tries to find explainations to the everyday. But these are not based on millenia old interpretations, but physical evidence. Granted, most people have no understanding of all the crazy concepts behind the science, but thats because most people aren't that curious as to why there IS gravity. Just content knowing it IS.People should also be content knowing that God IS. He has made it clear to everyone.

Rom 1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romber
Jan 20th 2009, 12:28 AM
good site, pretty basic tho, but good.


Yea, that is what is so great about it! Perfect for all levels.

Advocatus Dei
Jan 20th 2009, 09:55 AM
Those scientists and their dang evolutionary conspiracy. I still can't figure out how this lie is collaborated by 99.9% of the scientific community. And who keeps planting the evidence and how are they doing it? I need some answers

Hey, guys. Get your BS meters on, please. This guy is being sarcastic.

Sarcasm: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual

Or individuals, meaning us. Someone should slap him for a trite and juvenille attempt at humour, sarcasm being the lowest form of wit known to atheists. Key points to watch for: words like dang, 99.9% and hypothetical questions.

You did know he was joking, didn't you..?

Advocatus Dei
Jan 20th 2009, 10:41 AM
i'm looking for feed back, and yes, i realize many 'arguments' givin are brutally baseless. I'm going to compile these and more if i get them into a basic overall statment of why christianity makes more logical sence, but for now, any imput will be appreciated

This is a very good post and a great opportunity to develop some strong debating points. Thanks for taking the time to get these answers. I've not much time to develop any thoughts at the moment, but I'm looking forward to getting back to this.


In the case of a Christian god, I find the bible to be vastly contradictory and in most cases a poor moral compass. The case for evolution seems to be extremely strong in contrast to the alternatives and the motives and actions of the Catholic church in regards to homosexuality, abortion, misogyny, molestation and totalitarian regimes (for starters), deplorable.

Actually, I may do this one, but apologies in advance ilovemetal - it looks like you are actually quoting the above.

The refutation of contradictions in the bible is entirely dependant on whether you believe its innerancy. I don't. I believe a lot of it is metaphorical so I would use that to explain the contradictions. As to its being a poor moral compass, I'm sure that in any debate the person who used that argument would point to the usual 'beating your slaves' etc. Tell them to get a real life, no-one is living in the bronze age any more (they seem keen on using that term, so turn it against them) and see the church for what it is today - a beacon of morality in a sea of desperation. A focus for families, a modern standard in an unsure world.

Evolution? Well some will vehemently disagree here, but you have to roll with the punches and if you're in a deabte, it's always good to concede some points. This one I would concede - I believe that evolution occurs, but that's not to say that God didn't organise life that way. He may have done just that and why not? It's such an elegant method of reaching the point we're at now, why couldn't He have done it that way? It's His call and your opponent has nowhere to go from that point onwards. He can't prove that God isn't running evolution. So another point for the the good guys.

'Homosexuality, abortion, misogyny, molestation and totalitarian regimes'.

State that homosexuality is against God's wishes. There's no way around that - but you can mention that you know some wonderfull people who are gay. Sing their praises if need be. But mention again that it's against Christ's teachings. Me? I have no problem with it, but you don't have to actively encourage it.

Abortion? When does life begin? Ask that and the argument becomes a moveable feast for every atheist. Ask two atheists and they'll have two different answers - leave them to argue between themselves.

Misogyny...well that's a great debating point if it's being brought up by a guy! Ask him if he's ever looked at porn, ever looked at a woman as a sexual object, ever had an argument with his partner and said something like 'Women! Can you believe them?' End of that argument.

Molestation? Take the moral high ground. Tell them how bad it is and what the church is doing about it. Be even more angry about it than he is. Good grief, it's a nationwide problem, not just a problem for the churh. It's society, for God's Sake!

Totalarian regimes? What the..? Are we going back to facism, Nazis, Pol Pot? No, hang on - they were all under tha atheist umbrella unless I'm very much mistaken...

He was easy. Look forward to the others.

Philemon9
Jan 23rd 2009, 01:26 PM
Hey, guys. Get your BS meters on, please. This guy is being sarcastic.

Sarcasm: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual

Or individuals, meaning us. Someone should slap him for a trite and juvenille attempt at humour, sarcasm being the lowest form of wit known to atheists. Key points to watch for: words like dang, 99.9% and hypothetical questions.

You did know he was joking, didn't you..?

whoa sorry for the sarcasm but I'm definitely not an atheist. OEC - TE

JC Lamont
Jan 23rd 2009, 04:45 PM
The different reasons people come up with for not believing in Jesus fall into one of three categories (or a combination):

Intellectual obstacles -- the problem of evil, evolution science,etc.

Emotional obstacles -- Christian exclusivisim (Jesus is the only way), doctrine of hell, Christian hypocrites, etc.

Volitional Obstacles -- Christian morality, which on face value, seems to restrict our choices in life/ take all the fun out of it (unmarried sex, etc.)

Friedrich Nietzsche "If one were to prove this God of the Christians to us, we should be even less able to believe in him."

Nietzsche is saying that even if there was proof, and there were no more intellectual obstables, he still wouldn't believe, based on emotional and/or volitional grounds.

Evidence is not what's in the way of most people converting to Christ. What's in thier way, is themselves. Many believe that accepting Christianity as truth would force them to change their thinking, their friends, priorites, lifestyle, etc.

People don't want to believe. It goes against our very nature to not be in control of our own decisions, destiny, vocation, and such. We don't want to submitt. We want to be in charge. And it's hard, even for the Christian, to make such a transition.

Trying to come with a defense against all these objections your friends are volleying at you, is NOT going to make them suddenly convert. I've learned this the hard (and heart-breaking) way.

Their objections are just the petals of the flower. You need to dig deep into the roots -- find out what is really holding them back. Gently talk about your own volitional, emotional, or even intellectual struggles, then about how God helped you overcome some of them. Talk about what He's done in your life.

If all else fails, chain them to a chair and make them watch the Passion. (j/k -- about the chain part)

shepherdsword
Jan 24th 2009, 08:23 AM
Hey, guys. Get your BS meters on, please. This guy is being sarcastic.

Sarcasm: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual

Or individuals, meaning us. Someone should slap him for a trite and juvenille attempt at humour, sarcasm being the lowest form of wit known to atheists. Key points to watch for: words like dang, 99.9% and hypothetical questions.

You did know he was joking, didn't you..?

I was just about to post a "Don't step in the sarchasm cuz it's a deep one" sign but it was too late for Xel;)

Joe King
Jan 24th 2009, 05:34 PM
What really angers me is the morality issue. People don't agree with what God has done, yet in the same breath they claim to know what morality is.

parker
Jan 24th 2009, 05:55 PM
Ask an atheist, an agnostic or an unbeliever to tell you about this "god" that they don't believe in.

I guarantee you will have a great discussion and learn a lot if you listen instead of waiting to talk. And when (and if) that person signals they want a response, then you're off and running!

SnakeWesker
Jan 24th 2009, 06:49 PM
I'll never understand atheists. If they are correct, when they die, they get nothing. But if they wrong, when they die, they're going to the worst place. I don't see why they wouldn't believe in something. If nothing else, but to give themselves a chance.

Athanasius
Jan 24th 2009, 06:56 PM
I'll never understand atheists. If they are correct, when they die, they get nothing. But if they wrong, when they die, they're going to the worst place. I don't see why they wouldn't believe in something. If nothing else, but to give themselves a chance.

Moral culpability vs. no moral culpability

ilovemetal
Jan 24th 2009, 06:57 PM
there's many things i don't get about them.

things don't come from nothing, why would we?
what's the base for morals without God?
etc...

it's so strange even the thought of not believeing in God, and not even the Christian one, allthough i do, but just some god even...weird.

prestonbrownie
Jan 28th 2009, 05:20 AM
Did you know that there is FACT supporting the Christian religion? We all have DNA evidence of relating back to a single Ethiopian (Noah!). Plus, how do you explain all the miracles Jesus performed and the everyday amazements that science can't bear to explain?

parker
Jan 28th 2009, 07:21 AM
I'll never understand atheists. If they are correct, when they die, they get nothing. But if they wrong, when they die, they're going to the worst place. I don't see why they wouldn't believe in something. If nothing else, but to give themselves a chance.Snake, you're not the only one who's pondered this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager

Spirit Driven
Jan 28th 2009, 07:50 AM
People, I can assure you....God does not need the assistance of Human hands in any way at all to achieve his aims for all humankind.

No matter how much you hear that it is our choice to believe or not....it is a lie.

No matter how much you hear Doctrines like Eternal Torment or Free Will....it is a lie.

As 1 Timothy 4 puts it, they are lies spoken in hypocrasy.

God does not need the assistance of Human hands, in any way at all.

Isaiah 45:23
"I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

God himself has Sworn by himself...it will happen.

Peace

Advocatus Dei
Jan 28th 2009, 08:10 AM
Did you know that there is FACT supporting the Christian religion? We all have DNA evidence of relating back to a single Ethiopian (Noah!). Plus, how do you explain all the miracles Jesus performed and the everyday amazements that science can't bear to explain?

Hey Preston. You should be careful about stating it as a fact. This is from the actual paper by Stanford Uni quoted in Science magazine:

The relationship between haplotype heterozygosity and geography was consistent with the hypothesis of a serial founder effect with a single origin in sub-Saharan Africa.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/319/5866/1100

And the original 'origin' is likely to have lived in Africa around 100,000 years ago and that was way before Noah.

Rudy190
Jan 30th 2009, 12:33 AM
In the case of a Christian god, I find the bible to be vastly contradictory and in most cases a poor moral compass. The case for evolution seems to be extremely strong in contrast to the alternatives and the motives and actions of the Catholic church…


"Think for a moment about what needs to be demonstrated concerning a 'difficulty' in order to transfer it into the category of a valid argument against doctrine. Certainly much more is required than the mere appearance of a contradiction. First, we must be certain that we have correctly understood the passage, the sense in which it uses words or numbers. Second, that we possess all available knowledge in this matter. Third, that no further light can possibly be thrown on it by advancing knowledge, textual research, archaeology, etc....Difficulties do not constitute objections. Unsolved problems are not of necessity errors... Until such a time as we have total and final light on any issue we are in no position to affirm, 'Here is a proven error, and unquestionable objection to an infallible Bible.'" ~ Robert M. Horn, page 45, The Book that Speaks for itself.

In most cases, the supposed “contradictions” can be easily reconciled.

As for evolution being better than the actions of the Catholic church, my opinion is that just because a religious group does some things that are wrong, this does not mean that Christianity supports it; and it certainly does not mean that evolution is better than Christianity. (Just for the record, I’m not against Catholics, just the teachings.)
It greatly irritates me that most atheists say that evolution has so much “proof” when, in reality, there is NO proof whatsoever. It is really their worldview. Evolution is used as an excuse to do away with any obligations of morality and rightness as found in the Bible, because men simply don’t want to adhere to the commandments of God (they don't believe in Him, after all); if they can come up with some way around the Bible, they won’t have to be held to its standards (or so they think).



I feel that the belief in God, or A god is based in fear of the unknown. Religion looks to a book written thousands of years ago to explain everyday problems. People's problems are as People take the book as fact, when it is really someone else’s interpretation they are believing.


Has he ever stopped to think that evolution is “someone else’s’ interpretation” that many are believing, and it is being interpreted as “fact”? Also, evolution looks to “millions” or “billions” of years ago to explain life as we have it today, so why would it be strange that the Bible -- written only thousands of years ago, not billions – explains today’s problems?

The Bible is not just a “book written thousands of years ago”; it is a book written by 40 different authors over a period of 1600 years and spanning 60 generations -- from different continents, walks of life, moods, times, places. Each wrote on a variety of controversial issues, and yet when they are brought together, there is complete unity. ~ Josh McDowell, paraphrased from Scientific Facts in the Bible by Ray Comfort

Rudy190
Jan 30th 2009, 12:43 AM
Religion is for people that don't have faith in themselves, and need to justify their actions good or bad to what they believe is a higher power. The billions of years of the universe are not going to be explained away in a single book with the reason being "and saw that it was good"

This atheist is going to put his faith in the “fact” that the universe is billions of years old, but he’s stating that the belief in the Genesis account can’t explain away his “fact” of billions of years old -- The dictionary defines “fact” as “Something that actually exists or has occurred,” while the term “evolution” is defined as “The theory that all forms of life originated by descent from earlier forms.” “Creation” is defined as “God’s bringing of the universe into existence” (see the definition for “fact” again). So basically, Creation is a fact, but evolution is a theory. (Scientific Facts in the Bible,page 86)



Also I think its makes you a better person if you do good good things without thinking of who is watching or thinking of some possibility of reward.


Christians don’t do good things because “someone’s watching”; In fact, the Bible instructs us to do good things in secret...
Mt 6:2-4 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
There are, of course, numerous rewards that Christians can expect, but we don’t do good works solely for them; we do good works to please God, to show Him that we love Him – not just because He’s watching and we might get into trouble or we won’t get rewarded if we don’t – that would be dictatorship!

Athanasius
Jan 30th 2009, 01:01 AM
This atheist is going to put his faith in the “fact” that the universe is billions of years old, but he’s stating that the belief in the Genesis account can’t explain away his “fact” of billions of years old -- The dictionary defines “fact” as “Something that actually exists or has occurred,” while the term “evolution” is defined as “The theory that all forms of life originated by descent from earlier forms.” “Creation” is defined as “God’s bringing of the universe into existence” (see the definition for “fact” again). So basically, Creation is a fact, but evolution is a theory. (Scientific Facts in the Bible,page 86)

This says a whole lot of... Nothing? Mind explaining more, what do you mean 'creation is a fact'? Creation as in, the beginning. Or creation as in biblical creation?

Advocatus Dei
Jan 30th 2009, 03:53 AM
This atheist is going to put his faith in the “fact” that the universe is billions of years old
'scuse me? Not just atheists.


The dictionary defines “fact” as “Something that actually exists or has occurred,”
OK, we'll go with that.


“Creation” is defined as “God’s bringing of the universe into existence” (see the definition for “fact” again). So basically, Creation is a fact
Now we'll try this:

"Evolution" is defined as "the theory that all forms of live that currently exists or has occured originated by descent from earlier forms".

So basically, the theory is a fact. Which doesn't sound right to me. But I've used the same logic as you have, so either we're both correct or we're both incorrect.

ilovemetal
Jan 30th 2009, 05:37 AM
problem with 'evolution' is it has no baring on weather God exists or not. it merley explains the transition between species, (which doesn't happen.)

word up.

Philemon9
Jan 30th 2009, 06:12 AM
problem with 'evolution' is it has no baring on weather God exists or not. it merley explains the transition between species, (which doesn't happen.)

word up.

I hear if you say this 10 times fast it comes true