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bixa525
Jan 19th 2009, 02:22 AM
I know this is a very controversial topic but could you please tell me why you beleive or do not believe God's people will be raptured out at the end of time?

jeffweeder
Jan 19th 2009, 07:05 AM
All i know is the catching away ( rapture) happens after the ressurection.
The dead in Christ must rise first.., before anyone is caught away to the Lord. -1 thess 4

The ressurection enables people to inherit the kingdom of God, as flesh and blood cannot. 1cor 15:52----

Jesus said in Jn 13 and 14, that they could not go to the place that he was going,---- but that he would come again, so where Jesus is (going) , we would be with him in that place , in the Fathers house ,when he comes again.
so the ressurection of the body at the rapture, happens at the end of the age, when the lord comes to judge everyman accordingly, and recieve us .

DIZZY
Jan 19th 2009, 12:40 PM
I know this is a very controversial topic but could you please tell me why you beleive or do not believe God's people will be raptured out at the end of time?

Hi Bixa,
As you have said the rapture of the saints is a very contoversial issue. There are many views but only one correct view, the word of God explains itself plainly.

Christians are not appointed to receive the wrath of God we have found salvation through Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=59&chapter=5&verse=9&version=50&context=verse)
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Many like to attach 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 to matthew 24:29-31 which do not go together.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The chapters and verses above do not fit with Matthew 24:29-31.

Matthew 24:29-31
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Why do I say these do not belong together, for a start we know the Lord returns with the saints in 1 Thess 3, and Rev 19

1 Thessalonians 3:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=59&chapter=3&verse=13&version=50&context=verse)
so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

Revelation 17:14
14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

Revelation 19:13,14
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

In the two above verses you have the Lord returning and the saints are with Him. The wicked on the earth fight against the Lord. The nations haven't been seperated the sheep and goats have not been seperated so there for those that are with the Lord are actually raptured saints and tribulation saints.

Some may say they are Old Testament saints but this is not so, for they are not resurrected until the end of the tribulation, after the Lord has destroyed all things.

I once thought the Old Testament saints were among the armies of the Lord who returned with Him to the earth. Yet as I read Daniel 12:13 I see that this is not so.

Daniel 12:13
13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”

Matthew 24:29-31

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So you see even though you have a trumpet blowing here this trumpet is to annouce the return of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

The trumpet in ! Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 is to call the saints attention to the Lord, who raises the dead first and the living straight after them, as the dead rise the living are changed in the twinkling of the eye, they meet up together in the air to be with the Lord forever. (This is the rapture before the 7 yrs of Tribulation)

God has not appointed us to wrath we have found salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen

forum lurker
Jan 19th 2009, 04:29 PM
I'm kind of new to the various escatology terms, but it seems that there are 3 popular views when the rapture will take place: just before tribulation (pre-trib), in the middle of the tribulation (mid-trib) or just after (post-trib). I think all of these views have some merits, but personally I believe the rapture will take place in the middle of tribulation. I agree with DIZZY that it won't happen after.

26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. [h (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel%209;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22015h)] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' [i (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel%209;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22016i)] In the middle of the 'seven' [j (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel%209;&version=31;#fen-NIV-22016j)] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus was cut off after 3.5 years of his ministry. He will finish the rest in heaven, and this is the time of wrath of the Lord, which the church won't have to go through.

Also it's clear from Revelation that rapture won't take place immediately after the beast has risen to power (13:7):

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Ekimwolf
Jan 19th 2009, 06:05 PM
I know this is a very controversial topic but could you please tell me why you beleive or do not believe God's people will be raptured out at the end of time?


I am not a Bible Schalor but I read the Scriptures daily when I can. I think when you talk about the Rapture you have to look at the whole Bible from Genisis to Relalations. The Bible isn't a rule book or a reading book but a loveing testamony between God and his people.In the pages we see God is not some mean heavy but a loveing father. Even with scripture asside as a father you would not casties your children and make them suffer without cause. In the Rapture Scripture tells us Jesus comes back in the clouds to call his faithfull ( not sinless) home with him. Then we see the tribulations start so those left behind can make thier way to salvavtion. Therer is a saying,"There are no athiest in a foxhole." When times get tough people get holy really fast. There is to me proof indisputable that Jesus was who he said he was. If that is true then we know he will return and takes us home. That is what I believe in my heart of hearts.Please excuse mis spelled words I can't find spell ck. on this site. LOL

JesusMySavior
Jan 19th 2009, 06:15 PM
The "rapture" refers to a gathering of the saints, being called up out of the earth to meet the Lord in the sky.

After studying the Word for myself, I lean more towards the post-trib stance. I find little or no scripture referring to a pre-trib, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. The important thing is to be ready.

Also,




Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

I read through Revelation 3 and noticed the useage of this quote is a bit out of context. What I did find however was an even greater truth - Jesus promised them (that specific church) they wouldn't suffer the wrath to come - not that He would take them OUT of it (physically), but that they simply wouldn't suffer like the heathen BECAUSE they held fast to His Word and remained true to the purpose of the Gospel. We must be ready and spotless, perfect before God through our faith in Jesus - this is so vital and important.

All of that being said, the best way to form an opinion or a stance is to read the Word of God and see what He tells you.

May God bless your understanding. :)

markedward
Jan 19th 2009, 09:32 PM
The "rapture" is the resurrection.

DIZZY
Jan 19th 2009, 09:40 PM
I am not a Bible Schalor but I read the Scriptures daily when I can. I think when you talk about the Rapture you have to look at the whole Bible from Genisis to Relalations. The Bible isn't a rule book or a reading book but a loveing testamony between God and his people.In the pages we see God is not some mean heavy but a loveing father. Even with scripture asside as a father you would not casties your children and make them suffer without cause. In the Rapture Scripture tells us Jesus comes back in the clouds to call his faithfull ( not sinless) home with him. Then we see the tribulations start so those left behind can make thier way to salvavtion. Therer is a saying,"There are no athiest in a foxhole." When times get tough people get holy really fast. There is to me proof indisputable that Jesus was who he said he was. If that is true then we know he will return and takes us home. That is what I believe in my heart of hearts.Please excuse mis spelled words I can't find spell ck. on this site. LOL

Hi Ekimwolfi,
I hope this helps you even though we don't worry about the spelling. We all spell wrong sometimes.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

billy-brown 2
Jan 20th 2009, 12:31 AM
The "rapture" is the resurrection.

Yep . . . what he said ^. . . :pp

When a Christian maintains loyalty to Christ in patient endurance “until the end”—as suggested in Heb. 3:6, 3:14, 6:11, and implied in Heb. 10:23-25, 10:35-37, 9:24-28, with Phil. 3:20-21 (see these verses below)--we must understand that “the end” cannot refer to the physical death of the Christian.

"The end" must refer to the "time" when the "great promise" of the Lord will be given out.

This "great promise" of our God has many components:

a) The Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ (maranatha!)--

b) "Salvation"--

c) Physical, bodily resurrection from the dead--

d) The full manifestation of the Kingdom of God (eternal inheritance)--

e) The "change of our bodies"--

f) The administering of "great reward" (I assume this is "vindication" for all the persecution and trouble of the people of the Lord)--

g) etc.-- (I am sure that others can fill in the other components . . .).

Here are the verses cited above (there are many more concerning the issue of the OP--any thread participant should feel free to add to this list):

Heb. 3:6 . . . but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house are we if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end . . .

Heb. 3:14 . . . For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end . . .

Heb. 6:11 . . . And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end . . .

Heb. 10:23-25 . . . And let us hold unwaveringly to the hope that we confess, for the one who made the promise is trustworthy. And let us take thought of how to spur one another on to love and good works, not abandoning our own meetings, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other, and even more so because you see the day (the coming of the Lord) drawing near.

Heb. 10:35-37 . . . So do not throw away your confidence, because it has great reward. For you need endurance in order to do God’s will and so receive what is promised. For just a little longer and he who is coming (Christ Jesus the Lord) will arrive and not delay. . . .

Heb. 9:24-28 . . . For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with hands – the representation of the true sanctuary – but into heaven itself, and he appears now in God’s presence for us. And he did not enter to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the sanctuary year after year with blood that is not his own, for then he would have had to suffer again and again since the foundation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the consummation of the ages to put away sin by his sacrifice. And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment, so also, after Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, to those who eagerly await him he will appear a second time, not to bear sin but to bring salvation.

Phil. 3:20-21 . . . But our citizenship is in heaven – and we also await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform these humble bodies of ours into the likeness of his glorious body by means of that power by which he is able to subject all things to himself.

Some other caveats seem to be in order. . .

Let us remember that the writers of the New Testament had the belief that the Lord Jesus Christ was to return “the second time” during their lifetime. In fact, all Christians of the “1st Century” generation were convinced of this.

Of course, Jesus did not return “the second time” during the 1st century.

Therefore, all Christians who have died physically (whether martyred or not) “saw” the promise of the return of the Lord and “was persuaded by this promise” during their lives—much like the Old Testament people of faith were persuaded that there was going to be “a city, whose builder and maker is God” that they were to inhabit in the future.

Indeed, are not all of these awaiting the return of the Lord Jesus “the second time”? Do they not all say (as we do) "Even so, Come Lord Jesus!" and "Maranatha!" and so on?

Of course, the Apostle Paul suggests the return of the Lord for Christians in I Thess. 4:14-18:

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Thus, when Jesus comes back the “second time” it appears that there will be physically living Christians waiting for Him. It seems to me also that those saints who have died—whether Old Testament saint or New Testament saint--are really in the posture mentioned in several other scriptures in the book of Hebrews. For instance, the great “Hall of Faith” chapter in Heb. 11 records the following in verses 13-16 :

“These all (the faithful Old Testament saints) died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.”

And also Heb. 11:39-40:

“And all these (the faithful Old Testament saints), having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us (the New Testament saints), that they (the faithful Old Testament saints) should not be made perfect apart from us (the New Testament saints).”

And also Heb. 13:10-14:

“We (the New Testament saints) have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned outside the camp. Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate. Therefore let us go forth to Him, outside the camp, bearing His reproach. For here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come.”

For the edification of the saints . . .

(Comments are welcome . . .)

Love,

Billy-brown 2

:pray:

Truthinlove
Jan 20th 2009, 03:56 PM
Hello :)

I believe in a pre-wrath rapture at the 6th seal, sometime during the last half of the 7 year period.

Here's why......

I believe Scripture clearly defines when the rapture will happen in relation to other end-time events. If there is error, it is in my interpretation, not in the Word of God. My desire is that instead of taking my word for it, this article would encourage you to compare the Scriptures to each other and pray and see if you come to the same conclusion.

The Bible tells us that we won't know the day or hour of the rapture (Matt. 24:36), but just a couple of verses earlier (vs. 32 &33), He teaches us that we can know the season.

1 Thess. 4:13-18 & 5:1-2 describes the rapture. "And now, dear brothers and sisters, I want you to know what will happen to the Christians who have died so you will not be full of sorrow like people who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus comes, God will bring back with Jesus all the Christians who have died. I can tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet Him ahead of those who are still in their graves. For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with Him forever. So comfort and encourage each other with these words. I really don't need to write to you about how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters. For you know quite well that the day of the Lord will come unexpectedly like a thief in the night." NLT

The last two sentences are in a new chapter, but we must read it in context because his thought continues on the same topic of the rapture. In the original text there were no chapter or verse breaks. He has not changed the subject. If you were to start in ch. 5 you would naturally ask "when will what happen"? And the answer is the rapture, because that is what he was just talking about!

Paul gives the rapture a name....the Day of the Lord. Clearly the the rapture is tied together with the day of the Lord!! So, when does the day of the Lord begin?

Two very important Scriptures will help us out.

2 Thess. 2:1-4 says "And now, brothers and sisters, let us tell you about the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet Him. Please don't be so easily shaken and troubled by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Even if they claim to have a vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us, don't believe them. Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed – the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy every god there is and tear down every object of adoration and worship. He will position himself in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God." NLT

In other words, the day that Christ comes and gathers us (the rapture) at the beginning of the day of the Lord will not happen until after the antichrist defiles the temple, an event which clearly happens at the halfway point of the 7 year period. (Dan. 9:27).

Joel 2:31 gives us the signs that happen prior to the day of the Lord "The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes."

So, now I would refer you back to the the Olivet Discourse in Matt. 24.

Here again the rapture is tied together with the day of the Lord...perfectly paralleling what Paul teaches in 1 & 2 Thessalonians.

Matt. 24:29-31 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from on end of the sky to the other."

We see the signs that announce the beginning of the day of the Lord, then we see the rapture. Notice the rapture and the day of the Lord will come after the midpoint when antichrist begins his persecution of the Jews and saints. Again, this parallels Paul's teaching about the rapture without contradiction.

I see these two texts as essential to knowing the timing of the rapture.

2 Peter also links the rapture with the Day of the Lord in chapter 3:9-12 "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!"

The Day of the Lord not a 24 hour day, it is a time period of unknown duration when God will pour out His judgment on the wicked during the 70th week. The Day of the Lord contains the wrath of God. Believers will not endure the wrath of God. (1 Thess. 1:10 & 5:9, Romans 5:9)

In Revelation, the Day of the Lord begins in Rev. 8, after the signs in the sun, moon & stars and after the rapture of the saints which is shown as the great multitude in heaven having come out of the great tribulation. The rapture occurs at the 6th seal in Revelation. After the cosmic signs, but before the Day of the Lord.

In Luke 21:28 we are told "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near" in relation to the signs in the sun, moon and stars, because the rapture will take place after those signs and then God's wrath will begin.

2 Thess. 1:6-8 says "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ."

We are given relief (raptured) from affliction (persecution by antichrist, aka - great tribulation) when Jesus comes, and then he will punish the wicked.

The days of the 2nd Coming are compared to the days of Noah and Lot (Matt. 24:37-39, Luke 17:26-30).
The righteous were rescued and the wicked destroyed on the same day. It will be "just the same" when Jesus returns. Also, the wicked mocked Noah for preparing and building the ark, but they were destroyed in the flood. It will be the same in the last days (2 Peter 3:3-4).

From the comparison of these Scriptures, I have come to the conclusion that the rapture will happen at the 6th seal of Rev. sometime during the 2nd half of the 7 years, after the great tribulation by the antichrist. Then the wrath of God will be poured out in the Day of the Lord via the trumpet and bowl judgments.

billy-brown 2
Jan 20th 2009, 11:27 PM
Hi all, :pp

Some additional passages which feature the words of Jesus and Paul on the issue of “the rapture is the resurrection” are offered below (feel free to add to this list also . . . ).

My hope is that we will all see in these passages the following:

1) The resurrection will be accomplished by Jesus Christ on the last day.
2) Jesus' return (on the last day) deals with accomplishing "the resurrection" and "fully establishing the Kingdom of God" primarily--thus making of none effect "the last enemy" (death).
3) The resurrection "on the last day" has not happened yet (in 2009), because marriage is still occurring today.
4) All that are in the graves will participate in the resurrection--and on the last day only.
5) The wicked in the resurrected group are reserved for perdition (i. e., eternal damnation), and not for eternal inheritance.
6) etc. (I am sure that others can fill in additional details . . .)

Ok, here we go . . .

John 6:35-40; 43-51; 53-59

35 Then Jesus said, "I am the bread that gives life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you before, you have seen me and still don't believe. 37 The Father gives me the people who are mine. Every one of them will come to me, and I will always accept them. 38 I came down from heaven to do what God wants me to do, not what I want to do.39 Here is what the One who sent me wants me to do: I must not lose even one whom God gave me, but I must raise them all on the last day. 40 Those who see the Son and believe in him have eternal life, and I will raise them on the last day. This is what my Father wants."

43 But Jesus answered, "Stop complaining to each other. 44 The Father is the One who sent me. No one can come to me unless the Father draws him to me, and I will raise that person up on the last day.45 It is written in the prophets, 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.46 No one has seen the Father except the One who is from God; only he has seen the Father.47 I tell you the truth, whoever believes has eternal life.48 I am the bread that gives life.49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but still they died.50 Here is the bread that comes down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will never die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give up so that the world may have life."

53 Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, you must eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood. Otherwise, you won't have real life in you. 54 Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day.55 My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.56 Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood live in me, and I live in them.57 The living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father. So whoever eats me will live because of me. 58 I am not like the bread your ancestors ate. They ate that bread and still died. I am the bread that came down from heaven, and whoever eats this bread will live forever." 59 Jesus said all these things while he was teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

John 5:24-29

24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears what I say and believes in the One who sent me has eternal life. That person will not be judged guilty but has already left death and entered life. 25 I tell you the truth, the time is coming and is already here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will have life.26 Life comes from the Father himself, and he has allowed the Son to have life in himself as well. 27 And the Father has given the Son the approval to judge, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Don't be surprised at this: A time is coming when all who are dead and in their graves will hear his voice. 29 Then they will come out of their graves. Those who did good will rise and have life forever, but those who did evil will rise to be judged guilty.

John 12:44-50

44 Then Jesus cried out, "Whoever believes in me is really believing in the One who sent me. 45 Whoever sees me sees the One who sent me. 46 I have come as light into the world so that whoever believes in me would not stay in darkness.
47 "Anyone who hears my words and does not obey them, I do not judge, because I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for those who refuse to believe in me and do not accept my words. The word I have taught will be their judge on the last day.49 The things I taught were not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach. 50 And I know that eternal life comes from what the Father commands. So whatever I say is what the Father told me to say."

Luke 20:27-40

27 Some Sadducees, who believed people would not rise from the dead, came to Jesus.28 They asked, "Teacher, Moses wrote that if a man's brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, then that man must marry the widow and have children for his brother.29 Once there were seven brothers. The first brother married and died, but had no children.30 Then the second brother married the widow, and he died.31 And the third brother married the widow, and he died. The same thing happened with all seven brothers; they died and had no children.32 Finally, the woman died also.33 Since all seven brothers had married her, whose wife will she be when people rise from the dead?"
34 Jesus said to them, "On earth, people marry and are given to someone to marry. 35 But those who will be worthy to be raised from the dead and live again will not marry, nor will they be given to someone to marry.36 In that life they are like angels and cannot die. They are children of God, because they have been raised from the dead. 37 Even Moses clearly showed that the dead are raised to life. When he wrote about the burning bush, he said that the Lord is 'the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' 38 God is the God of the living, not the dead, because all people are alive to him."
39 Some of the teachers of the law said, "Teacher, your answer was good."40 No one was brave enough to ask him another question.

Acts 24:10-23

10 When the governor made a sign for Paul to speak, Paul said, "Governor Felix, I know you have been a judge over this nation for a long time. So I am happy to defend myself before you.11 You can learn for yourself that I went to worship in Jerusalem only twelve days ago.12 Those who are accusing me did not find me arguing with anyone in the Temple or stirring up the people in the synagogues or in the city.13 They cannot prove the things they are saying against me now.14 But I will tell you this: I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way of Jesus. The others say that the Way of Jesus is not the right way. But I believe everything that is taught in the law of Moses and that is written in the books of the Prophets.15 I have the same hope in God that they have—the hope that all people, good and bad, will surely be raised from the dead.16 This is why I always try to do what I believe is right before God and people.
17 "After being away from Jerusalem for several years, I went back to bring money to my people and to offer sacrifices.18 I was doing this when they found me in the Temple. I had finished the cleansing ceremony and had not made any trouble; no people were gathering around me. 19 But there were some people from Asia who should be here, standing before you. If I have really done anything wrong, they are the ones who should accuse me. 20 Or ask these people here if they found any wrong in me when I stood before the council in Jerusalem.21 But I did shout one thing when I stood before them: 'You are judging me today because I believe that people will rise from the dead!' "
22 Felix already understood much about the Way of Jesus. He stopped the trial and said, "When commander Lysias comes here, I will decide your case."23 Felix told the officer to keep Paul guarded but to give him some freedom and to let his friends bring what he needed.

I Cor. 15:20-28

20 But Christ has truly been raised from the dead—the first one and proof that those who sleep in death will also be raised.21 Death has come because of what one man did, but the rising from death also comes because of one man.22 In Adam all of us die. In the same way, in Christ all of us will be made alive again.23 But everyone will be raised to life in the right order. Christ was first to be raised. When Christ comes again, those who belong to him will be raised to life,24 and then the end will come. At that time Christ will destroy all rulers, authorities, and powers, and he will hand over the kingdom to God the Father.25 Christ must rule until he puts all enemies under his control.26 The last enemy to be destroyed will be death.27 The Scripture says that God put all things under his control. When it says "all things" are under him, it is clear this does not include God himself. God is the One who put everything under his control.28 After everything has been put under the Son, then he will put himself under God, who had put all things under him. Then God will be the complete ruler over everything.

For the edification and encouragement of the saints (but especially the writer of the OP) . . .

(Comments are welcome . . .)

Love,

Billy-brown 2
:pp

wildfire
Feb 6th 2009, 04:50 AM
I know this is a very controversial topic but could you please tell me why you beleive or do not believe God's people will be raptured out at the end of time?

I believe what God has to say about the order of events concerning the last days. We are given the parable of the wheat and tares. If you read Matthew 13:24 He explains the order of time to his disciples;

Let both grow together until the harvest and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers GATHER YE TOGETHER FIRST the tares, and bind them into bundles and BURN them; but gather the wheat into my barn.

Before Jesus was killed, he prayed for us.
John 17:15

I pray NOT that thou shouldst TAKE THEM OUT OF THIS WORLD, but that thous should KEEP THEM FROM THE EVIL.