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View Full Version : Fasten your seatbelts! End time events unfolding fast!



JaneA
Jan 19th 2009, 02:51 AM
:ppi think things are happening very fast in regards to the endtimes. Watch in the next year for possible moves toward a one world government system. I think most all of the leaders of the world are in agreement on this. Wheather the "lawless one" antichrist will be a US figure or European figure or someone else I'm not sure. We need to remember that any government doesn't hold the answers to the worlds problems, God does. God is the one who sets up governments. He is so much greater than the evil ones of this world. He is our awesome and soon coming King!!

livingwaters
Jan 19th 2009, 03:02 AM
Praise the Lord!! Come Lord!!!:hug::pp

karenoka27
Jan 19th 2009, 03:04 AM
History unfolding right before our very eyes! What an awesome God we serve!

wombat
Jan 19th 2009, 05:00 AM
:ppi think things are happening very fast in regards to the endtimes. Watch in the next year for possible moves toward a one world government system. I think most all of the leaders of the world are in agreement on this. Wheather the "lawless one" antichrist will be a US figure or European figure or someone else I'm not sure. We need to remember that any government doesn't hold the answers to the worlds problems, God does. God is the one who sets up governments. He is so much greater than the evil ones of this world. He is our awesome and soon coming King!!
Hi, JaneA! I agree that things are moving along very fast. I suspect that we'll be seeing some remarkable things happening this year related to prophecy fulfillment. I'm listening for the great trumpet blast and putting everything I've got into preparing my family and others for the tribulation days to come.

Joe King
Jan 19th 2009, 05:07 AM
Many signs are upon us and I believe as more are revealed, those that have fallen away will return because they will remember what the LORD Jesus has said about these times!!! Amen!!

wombat
Jan 19th 2009, 06:07 AM
Many signs are upon us and I believe as more are revealed, those that have fallen away will return because they will remember what the LORD Jesus has said about these times!!! Amen!!
Hi, Joe King! I am praying that my sister will be one of those who return to Jesus, whether it happens before the rapture (much preferable) or after the rapture. I know so many of us have loved ones who are not yet Christians, and I know we are all concerned over their salvation. One thing I might share to help lift our aching hearts is that I can tell you that God will not fully "leave anyone behind" that will be His. Yes, the rapture may happen before some of our loved ones come to believe in Him, and they will be left here to endure the tribulation hour (whether part or all of it, we'll have to wait and see). But I believe that God knows who will someday turn to Him and who will not, and I believe that He will work on those people's hearts who will be His in the future. He will accomplish bringing them to salvation, even if it be during hard tribulation times. He won't abandon them if He knows they will turn their hearts to Him. He'll use every situation they find themselves in to get them where they need to be. He'll bring every last one home, and when all is said and done, they will have never been left behind at all because they will be able to say that God pursued their hearts to the very end.

student of the Lamb
Jan 20th 2009, 12:09 AM
One of the reasons I believe in the pretribulation rapture is that God is so loving and does not want to leave anyone behind. For those who are still here after the rapture, there is a very definitive message for them as they then see that people they know, loved ones, friends, etc. are no longer here. They can then realize that there was only one reason for that. They had gone to heaven to be with God. There will be those who will pick up the cause and others will come to know Him who never believed before.

Libre
Jan 20th 2009, 12:43 AM
A word to the wise. I have been saved for 34 years, and have heard it time and time again the all signs say the time is short. And it may be. We should always be ready. On the other hand, we are to be Jesus' hands and feet in the here and now.

Consider this: What if the current excitement is another flash in the pan? And He tarries another 1000 years?

We must be faithful in little now. Don't be so concerned about perceived signs and getting ready to leave this mortal coil that you forget it is His coming, not our going, that is primary. Are your neighbors ready for Him?

Those of you who are stockpiling, because you believe you will go through tribulation and deprivation and persecution - remember what Jesus told the rich man who had his barns full.

Romber
Jan 20th 2009, 01:42 AM
History unfolding right before our very eyes! What an awesome God we serve!


The funny thing is I always wished I lived in Moses time, or Jesus time so I can say I was eyewitness to history, but what I haven't realized is I am living it right now-just the tail end of it!

Joe King
Jan 20th 2009, 02:42 AM
The funny thing is I always wished I lived in Moses time, or Jesus time so I can say I was eyewitness to history, but what I haven't realized is I am living it right now-just the tail end of it!

I'm so glad I wasn't born during Moses' time or even Jesus' time. It would have been unlikely that I would have been saved, but here I am in the present awaiting our LORD's return!!!!

Ixthus
Jan 20th 2009, 02:51 AM
A word to the wise. I have been saved for 34 years, and have heard it time and time again the all signs say the time is short. And it may be. We should always be ready. On the other hand, we are to be Jesus' hands and feet in the here and now.

Consider this: What if the current excitement is another flash in the pan? And He tarries another 1000 years?

We must be faithful in little now. Don't be so concerned about perceived signs and getting ready to leave this mortal coil that you forget it is His coming, not our going, that is primary. Are your neighbors ready for Him?

Those of you who are stockpiling, because you believe you will go through tribulation and deprivation and persecution - remember what Jesus told the rich man who had his barns full.

In the Civil War people thought it was the end of the world. Even the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" talks about it. So I believe that Christ and Christ alone knows when the end will come. But every single day I ask myself "Is this where I want to be when Jesus comes back"

student of the Lamb
Jan 20th 2009, 04:30 AM
Actually, I believe that it is Luke 12:49 and 50 where Jesus says that He was ready for it to happen then but yet it still hasn't happened.

I agree with Libre. We should just be spiritually ready for the second coming.

My heart's Desire
Jan 20th 2009, 06:44 AM
I'll share your excitement. I believe the Lord is returning soon just as much as I did 20 years ago. Well, ok, maybe more so even now! There is a crown for those who love His appearing.

Joe King
Jan 20th 2009, 01:59 PM
Hi, Joe King! I am praying that my sister will be one of those who return to Jesus, whether it happens before the rapture (much preferable) or after the rapture. I know so many of us have loved ones who are not yet Christians, and I know we are all concerned over their salvation. One thing I might share to help lift our aching hearts is that I can tell you that God will not fully "leave anyone behind" that will be His. Yes, the rapture may happen before some of our loved ones come to believe in Him, and they will be left here to endure the tribulation hour (whether part or all of it, we'll have to wait and see). But I believe that God knows who will someday turn to Him and who will not, and I believe that He will work on those people's hearts who will be His in the future. He will accomplish bringing them to salvation, even if it be during hard tribulation times. He won't abandon them if He knows they will turn their hearts to Him. He'll use every situation they find themselves in to get them where they need to be. He'll bring every last one home, and when all is said and done, they will have never been left behind at all because they will be able to say that God pursued their hearts to the very end.


Aloha Wombat. If there is a rapture, I really hope that it is pre-trib or mid-tribulation rapture so that people can wake up and realize that there is a living God! It would be the biggest piece of "evidence" that they would have ever seen!!

Gregg
Jan 20th 2009, 02:00 PM
A word to the wise. I have been saved for 34 years, and have heard it time and time again the all signs say the time is short. And it may be. We should always be ready. On the other hand, we are to be Jesus' hands and feet in the here and now.

Consider this: What if the current excitement is another flash in the pan? And He tarries another 1000 years?

We must be faithful in little now. Don't be so concerned about perceived signs and getting ready to leave this mortal coil that you forget it is His coming, not our going, that is primary. Are your neighbors ready for Him?

Those of you who are stockpiling, because you believe you will go through tribulation and deprivation and persecution - remember what Jesus told the rich man who had his barns full.

Yes.

It could be that we will face our individual end times long before Jesus comes back in victory.

wombat
Jan 20th 2009, 02:24 PM
Aloha Wombat. If there is a rapture, I really hope that it is pre-trib or mid-tribulation rapture so that people can wake up and realize that there is a living God! It would be the biggest piece of "evidence" that they would have ever seen!!
I am hoping the same thing, Joe King! :saint:

HisLeast
Jan 20th 2009, 02:27 PM
Looking back over history to see how people were treated when the world went through periods of chaos, I look towards any end time with a feeling of sober dread. You won't catch me dead smiling about it.

- Wrestling with the insanity of not taking the mark while my wife and I watch our infant child starve to death.
- Traveling to a haven while avoiding rioters or local militias turned despotic, (while presumably starving).
- Being packed into a traincar like the Jews of WW2, bound to camps for people who don't take the mark.
- Struggling against my bonds while a few marked soldiers decide they want to have some sport with my wife.
- The endless torture aimed at getting me to deny my faith and take the mark.

Victory or no... I can't look forward to those horrors with expectation.

Kahtar
Jan 20th 2009, 03:04 PM
Looking back over history to see how people were treated when the world went through periods of chaos, I look towards any end time with a feeling of sober dread. You won't catch me dead smiling about it.

- Wrestling with the insanity of not taking the mark while my wife and I watch our infant child starve to death.
- Traveling to a haven while avoiding rioters or local militias turned despotic, (while presumably starving).
- Being packed into a traincar like the Jews of WW2, bound to camps for people who don't take the mark.
- Struggling against my bonds while a few marked soldiers decide they want to have some sport with my wife.
- The endless torture aimed at getting me to deny my faith and take the mark.

Victory or no... I can't look forward to those horrors with expectation.Do you think God is not able to give you what you need in those times? Read Fox's Book of Martres. Even when they were tied to a stake with flames running up their legs, Christ was right there with them, giving them strength, even the ability to glorify His Name with their last few breaths.
Place your life entirely in His hands today. He'll see you through whatever He has for you.
Dread is fear, brother, and fear comes from our enemy. Perfect love casts out all fear.

HisLeast
Jan 20th 2009, 03:24 PM
Do you think God is not able to give you what you need in those times? Read Fox's Book of Martres. Even when they were tied to a stake with flames running up their legs, Christ was right there with them, giving them strength, even the ability to glorify His Name with their last few breaths.
Place your life entirely in His hands today. He'll see you through whatever He has for you.
I believe God will bless or curse me as He pleases. If it is my destiny to burn at the stake, or have my head sawn off after my mind has been crushed with torture doesn't mean I have to look forward to it.

I don't think Noah was giggling to himself when he built the Ark. I think his hammer and saw were driven by desperation and blinding fear.


Dread is fear, brother, and fear comes from our enemy. Perfect love casts out all fear.
Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

Kahtar
Jan 20th 2009, 05:38 PM
I believe God will bless or curse me as He pleases. If it is my destiny to burn at the stake, or have my head sawn off after my mind has been crushed with torture doesn't mean I have to look forward to it.Well, can't say I exactly 'look forward to it', but I don't fear it either.


Fear is the beginning of wisdom.:DSo it is. But let that fear drive you (all of us) to ensuring our relationship with Christ is what it should be.
Matthew 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Not the words we want to hear when we go to the wedding. Let's make sure He DOES know us.

quiet dove
Jan 20th 2009, 08:22 PM
Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.

Fear of the Lord, not just fear of whatever. :)

RabbiKnife
Jan 20th 2009, 08:38 PM
So exactly what are the great "end time prophesies" that are being fulfilled now?

HisLeast
Jan 20th 2009, 09:02 PM
Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.

Fear of the Lord, not just fear of whatever. :)

That's precisely what I mean. Fear of the Lord. So if its the Lord's will that I undergo the trial of the end-of-days, I'm fearful of His provenance.

quiet dove
Jan 20th 2009, 09:36 PM
That's precisely what I mean. Fear of the Lord. So if its the Lord's will that I undergo the trial of the end-of-days, I'm fearful of His provenance.


I look at it a little differently I guess. It is being in the hands of an angry God, yep, I would be afraid. Not being in the hands of a loving Savior and thus not having any assurance, yep, I would be afraid. However, and don't get me wrong, persecution is not something I want and can't say I am not afraid, but, I do trust that if persecution comes, the strength of Christ will lift me above any fear.

In other words, I have a "fear" or "respect" of knowing my place and knowing God's place. As long as I understand my rightful place, as creature, as belonging to Him, as covered by the righteousness of Christ, I have no need of "fear", as my future is secure in Christ Jesus.

I do not have to fear wrath or judgment. And in my opinion those are to be feared much more so than persecution. I need not fear being left along in persecution but I can trust that Christ will raise me above it. And I do not have to fear being in the hands of an angry God because I am in Christ Jesus.

Fear being the beginning of wisdom simply means we understand that we are fragile, finite, creatures and God is the Creator and the creatures must answer to the Creator, and Jesus has answered to Him for me.

As Kahtar stated:
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

JesusMySavior
Jan 21st 2009, 05:47 AM
If we are to be raptured, hallelujah!

If we are to be tortured, hallelujah!

Lyndie
Jan 21st 2009, 07:32 PM
Looking back over history to see how people were treated when the world went through periods of chaos, I look towards any end time with a feeling of sober dread. You won't catch me dead smiling about it.

- Wrestling with the insanity of not taking the mark while my wife and I watch our infant child starve to death.
- Traveling to a haven while avoiding rioters or local militias turned despotic, (while presumably starving).
- Being packed into a traincar like the Jews of WW2, bound to camps for people who don't take the mark.
- Struggling against my bonds while a few marked soldiers decide they want to have some sport with my wife.
- The endless torture aimed at getting me to deny my faith and take the mark.

Victory or no... I can't look forward to those horrors with expectation.

Thank you for your honesty, because I feel the same way. I will not be shouting for joy while being tortured, or even worse, standing watching my family and friends suffer.

SeekingWisdom
Jan 21st 2009, 08:09 PM
Looking back over history to see how people were treated when the world went through periods of chaos, I look towards any end time with a feeling of sober dread. You won't catch me dead smiling about it.

*snip*

Victory or no... I can't look forward to those horrors with expectation.

As I clicked to read the second page of this thread similar thoughts were going through my mind. I was wondering how someone could be so excited when there's a big storm before the victory. All this happiness about it sounds a little odd to me.

People seem to forget that all of the wrath to occur is not God's wrath.

Call me selfish but I don't want to get my head chopped off.

Yes I trust in God. Yes I will stand up for God no matter what. But no, the end times does not make me happy or excite me.

Especially when I know that the timing is wrong. Now is not the right time but if Christians aren't standing up and being prayer warriors then it will be here before we know it. People aren't ready yet, Christians aren't ready yet.

We have to expose the deceptions and lies going on in the church and in the world. We have to get people back on track- especially people who think they are Christian. And we have to make sure the Gospel is preached to all nations.

Yes what's going to happen is going to happen but the timing is key. And with intercessory prayer we can hold it off. Evil people are devoted to holding these ceremonies and sacrifices for their lord, Satan. Us Christians need to be praying against all that. Where is our devotion?

Semi-tortured
Jan 21st 2009, 08:45 PM
HisLeast, SeekingWisdom and Lyndie put it best. To be celebrating the tribulation is a bit weird. Celebrate His return and be happy about that, but I for one am NOT looking forward to the tribulation. You look at all the tribulations this world has gone through in the past and Jesus said Himself that it will be a tribulation as never seen nor ever to be seen again. Looking forward to the tribulation doesn't make much sense to me.

I am terrifyed of what will come. The torture, the pain, the watching of loved ones going through the same thing. This will not be some glorious ride. Obviously, if you're pre-trib rapture then none of this matters. I personally think the pre-trib is wishful thinking. I look forward to Jesus' foot stepping down on the mount of Olives, but I doubt I live to see it because it will either happen WAY off in the future, or I will have been tortured and beheaded.

Libre
Jan 21st 2009, 09:35 PM
Just a note. The Bible does not use the phrase "the great tribulation".

Further, while we all may have some tribulation at one time or another, the tribulation spoken of in the New Testament was spoken to those living at that time. Not us 2000 years later (2000 years is roughly the length of time from the call of Abraham to the cross - and after the apostles, God has been silent. For Christ is the more sure word of prophecy.) The Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to encourage those who would endure a great time of tribulation. But they were saved out of the destruction, for history records that all left Jerusalem during an "unexplained" lull in the siege by Titus.

You can rejoice in this as good news for us today. Or you can continue to speculate and let you imaginations run wild about horrors you fear will come. Putting this all in the future, where it cannot be verified till it happens, is a new view of eschatology. Traditionally it was not understood this way.

So, suit yourselves. As for myself, and others who do not hold to the Futurist teaching, we rejoice in the knowledge that God did what He said He would do. And He continues to. And Jesus will return bodily when we are resurrected. Until then, we do as He commanded us, and make disciples.

quiet dove
Jan 21st 2009, 11:28 PM
Just a note. The Bible does not use the phrase "the great tribulation".

Further, while we all may have some tribulation at one time or another, the tribulation spoken of in the New Testament was spoken to those living at that time. Not us 2000 years later (2000 years is roughly the length of time from the call of Abraham to the cross - and after the apostles, God has been silent. For Christ is the more sure word of prophecy.) The Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to encourage those who would endure a great time of tribulation. But they were saved out of the destruction, for history records that all left Jerusalem during an "unexplained" lull in the siege by Titus.

You can rejoice in this as good news for us today. Or you can continue to speculate and let you imaginations run wild about horrors you fear will come. Putting this all in the future, where it cannot be verified till it happens, is a new view of eschatology. Traditionally it was not understood this way.


Persecution of saints, or the very real possibility of it taught for all who would follow Jesus. However, God's wrath is not taught to be upon those who follow Jesus. So to put the time of tribulation taught in Revelation as applying to those is Christ seems contradictory in that God is not going to pour His wrath upon those in Christ. And as far as Satan's wrath goes, it has not cease to stop at any point through out history and won't until Christ returns. But Satan's wrath and God's wrath are two very different things.

The Good News for us today is the same Good News for those of any time frame that are in Christ Jesus, has nothing to do with when the words were spoken as much as the truth of what was spoken and that truth applying to all men, whenever they live and die.

And though our understanding or lack of cannot be verified until after the facts, our understanding or lack of does not determine the past or future of what is spoken. Just because it cannot be verified is not a reason to consider the prophecy past. If past does not accurately full fill, it has not been fulfilled.


So, suit yourselves. As for myself, and others who do not hold to the Futurist teaching, we rejoice in the knowledge that God did what He said He would do. And He continues to. And Jesus will return bodily when we are resurrected. Until then, we do as He commanded us, and make disciples.

For some reason you equate believing the "futurist" view to doubting God? Is it easier to believe in something you have seen, or easier to believe it what you have not seen? Futurist fully believe the prophecies of what they have not seen, fully trust and believe God in what they have not yet seen. Futurist rejoice in full knowing that God has done as He said and will continue to do so and rejoice in knowing that all He said will come to pass.

SeekingWisdom
Jan 21st 2009, 11:51 PM
Just a note. The Bible does not use the phrase "the great tribulation".

Further, while we all may have some tribulation at one time or another, the tribulation spoken of in the New Testament was spoken to those living at that time. Not us 2000 years later

*snip*

So, suit yourselves. As for myself, and others who do not hold to the Futurist teaching, we rejoice in the knowledge that God did what He said He would do. And He continues to. And Jesus will return bodily when we are resurrected. Until then, we do as He commanded us, and make disciples.

Sorry if I am taking this off track but I am confused.

Are you saying that everything predicted in the Book of Revelation has already happened.

If so then I'd like to know:

1) When did it happen?
2) Why am I here and not in heaven?

Libre
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:03 AM
The Futurist view does not doubt God. But seeing His promises come to pass in fulfillment is very faith building. One of the major guidelines for understanding prophecy is that if it has been fulfilled, we should not then look for another fulfillment.

The only people who talk of dual fulfillments are futurists who are seeking to acknowledge previous fulfillment and still hold to a future one as well. But if we accept the strange idea of dual fulfillment, there is the thorny question of the prophecies already fulfilled in Christ. If there are dual fulfillments, then we would have to also accept that there could be another Messiah! How preposterous.

So, if history tells us that the events in Revelation have been mostly fulfilled, then we should consider it.

quiet dove
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:09 AM
The Futurist view does not doubt God. But seeing His promises come to pass in fulfillment is very faith building. One of the major guidelines for understanding prophecy is that if it has been fulfilled, we should not then look for another fulfillment.

True on both, it is faith building and I agree much can be said to be fulfilled but those two truths do not determine what has and has not been fulfilled. When the details have not been met by past events, such as what is described in Revelation, then I cannot see them as fulfilled. What was prophecied that has come to pass came to pass down to the minutest detail, I would expect nothing less of Revelation and the Gospels.



The only people who talk of dual fulfillments are futurists who are seeking to acknowledge previous fulfillment and still hold to a future one as well. But if we accept the strange idea of dual fulfillment, there is the thorny question of the prophecies already fulfilled in Christ. If there are dual fulfillments, then we would have to also accept that there could be another Messiah! How preposterous.

So, if history tells us that the events in Revelation have been mostly fulfilled, then we should consider it.

No, "all" futurist do not see dual fulfillment. So stick with describing your own views and allow others to do the same. And "mostly" does not equate to "minutest" detail. Similarities are not minutest detail. When Jesus says "all nations, tongues and peoples of the earth" thats what I await "all". Not just a portion of the earth as was involved in 70AD.

SirTanTee
Jan 22nd 2009, 02:55 AM
Just curious, what are the most major "signs" that make people think the end times are upon us?

My heart's Desire
Jan 22nd 2009, 05:43 AM
Just curious, what are the most major "signs" that make people think the end times are upon us?
To be honest, I believe seeing Israel back in their land is MAJOR as many prophecies revolve around them and they've been back since 1948. Plus many Jewish people are regathering there from the other nations. I know many will not agree with me, but as far as a sign, I'd say that would be one.

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 23rd 2009, 04:07 PM
So, if history tells us that the events in Revelation have been mostly fulfilled, then we should consider it.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you believe Jesus has Returned? as described in Revelation? coming in Power and Glory from Heaven.. with His Saints and the armies of Heaven.. do you believe He has appeared as described?

When He does return as Described.. and He will .. literally and physically.. then History tells us .. that He hasn't... if He did return as its stated.. then everybody must of missed it.. It states the all the nations of the world will view His glorious Return.. and most of them will be mourning because of it.. and they will try to Hide from the Face of Him...

History I don't believe has recorded anything like this... if it has I'd like to see the 'account' of it..

moonglow
Jan 23rd 2009, 04:57 PM
HisLeast, SeekingWisdom and Lyndie put it best. To be celebrating the tribulation is a bit weird. Celebrate His return and be happy about that, but I for one am NOT looking forward to the tribulation. You look at all the tribulations this world has gone through in the past and Jesus said Himself that it will be a tribulation as never seen nor ever to be seen again. Looking forward to the tribulation doesn't make much sense to me.

I am terrifyed of what will come. The torture, the pain, the watching of loved ones going through the same thing. This will not be some glorious ride. Obviously, if you're pre-trib rapture then none of this matters. I personally think the pre-trib is wishful thinking. I look forward to Jesus' foot stepping down on the mount of Olives, but I doubt I live to see it because it will either happen WAY off in the future, or I will have been tortured and beheaded.

I think those celebrating it expressed the pre-trib rapture view...so they don't believe they will even be here...so maybe that is why they are celebrating. At any rate I am glad I don't hold any trib view so I have no worries or anxieties about it at al...like Libre I believe the tribulation happened in the past to the first century Christians...we have Christ literal return to look forward too now. :) And that is something to celebrate! :pp

God bless

moonglow
Jan 23rd 2009, 05:00 PM
So, if history tells us that the events in Revelation have been mostly fulfilled, then we should consider it.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you believe Jesus has Returned? as described in Revelation? coming in Power and Glory from Heaven.. with His Saints and the armies of Heaven.. do you believe He has appeared as described?

When He does return as Described.. and He will .. literally and physically.. then History tells us .. that He hasn't... if He did return as its stated.. then everybody must of missed it.. It states the all the nations of the world will view His glorious Return.. and most of them will be mourning because of it.. and they will try to Hide from the Face of Him...

History I don't believe has recorded anything like this... if it has I'd like to see the 'account' of it..

She never said Christ returned...she said the tribulation happened already in the past...in the first century and yes there is quite alot of historical evidence to support this. Check out Adam Clarks bible commentary on Matthew 24..he matches scriptures with that historical evidence: http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=mt&chapter=024

God bless

Jude
Jan 23rd 2009, 06:37 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/pray_persecuted_church.jpg

His coming is at the doors.

Jude

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif

Partaker of Christ
Jan 24th 2009, 11:44 AM
The Lord will provide new manna for today. He will supply new manna for tomorrow.

When Daniel saw what was to come, he feared greatly at what he saw. I think, that when I look at what may be, I also look ahead with dread at what might befall us.

Matt 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Whatever our need for tomorrow, my Lord will supply sufficiently.

Roelof
Jan 25th 2009, 03:47 AM
:ppi think things are happening very fast in regards to the endtimes. Watch in the next year for possible moves toward a one world government system.

You are perfectly right, most of the Ten World Regions or Unions are in place

The current world-wide financial crisis is also adding momentum

possumliving
Jan 27th 2009, 06:58 AM
A word to the wise. I have been saved for 34 years, and have heard it time and time again the all signs say the time is short. And it may be. We should always be ready. On the other hand, we are to be Jesus' hands and feet in the here and now.

Consider this: What if the current excitement is another flash in the pan? And He tarries another 1000 years?

We must be faithful in little now. Don't be so concerned about perceived signs and getting ready to leave this mortal coil that you forget it is His coming, not our going, that is primary. Are your neighbors ready for Him?

Those of you who are stockpiling, because you believe you will go through tribulation and deprivation and persecution - remember what Jesus told the rich man who had his barns full.

I don't consider the "great falling away" to be a flash in the pan.

2 Thess 2:3 Let no one deceive {or} beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first [unless the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come], and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom (of perdition),


Steph

possumliving
Jan 27th 2009, 07:12 AM
Looking back over history to see how people were treated when the world went through periods of chaos, I look towards any end time with a feeling of sober dread. You won't catch me dead smiling about it.

- Wrestling with the insanity of not taking the mark while my wife and I watch our infant child starve to death.
- Traveling to a haven while avoiding rioters or local militias turned despotic, (while presumably starving).
- Being packed into a traincar like the Jews of WW2, bound to camps for people who don't take the mark.
- Struggling against my bonds while a few marked soldiers decide they want to have some sport with my wife.
- The endless torture aimed at getting me to deny my faith and take the mark.

Victory or no... I can't look forward to those horrors with expectation.

Jer 17:15 Behold, they say to me, Where is the word of the Lord [predicting the disaster that you said would befall us]? Let it come now!
Jer 17:16 But as for me, I have not sought to escape from being a shepherd after You, nor have I desired the woeful day [of judgment]; You know that. Whatever I said was spoken in Your presence {and} was from You.
Jer 17:17 Be not a terror to me; You are my refuge {and} my hope in the day of evil.
Jer 17:18 Let those be put to shame who persecute me, but let me not be put to shame; let them be dismayed, but let me not be dismayed. Bring on them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.


Amos 5:15 Hate the evil and love the good and establish justice in the [court of the city's] gate. It may be that the Lord, the God of hosts, will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph [the northern kingdom].
Amos 5:16 Therefore thus says the Lord, the God of hosts, the Lord: There shall be wailing in all the broad ways, and in all the streets they shall say, Alas! Alas! And they shall call the farmers to mourning and such as are skilled in lamentation to wailing.
Amos 5:17 And in all vineyards there shall be wailing, for I will pass through the midst of you, says the Lord.
Amos 5:18 Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! Why would you want the day of the Lord? It is darkness and not light;
Amos 5:19 It is as if a man fled from a lion and a bear met him, or went into the house and leaned with his hand against the wall and a serpent bit him.
Amos 5:20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, not light? Even very dark with no brightness in it?

I heard a bunch of Christians talking one day about, "Come Lord Jesus and slay all of the wicked" making sport of the fact that the wicked will be punished and I got a horrible check in my spirit.

Then the Lord showed me that verse that is bolded.

And I realized, there must be a great sadness in God's heart for those that refuse to accept His Son and the forgiveness for their sins. And so, God is patient because He doesn't want to truly see anybody perish.

But, on the other hand, to know everything that Jesus suffered on our behalf and then deal with a people who rejected Him and blasphemed Him? I would be full of wrath too.

And yes, there will be terrible persecutions and I believe that we must trust in God to get us through.

Is 42:3 A bruised reed He will not break, and a dimly burning wick He will not quench; He will bring forth justice in truth.

Steph

possumliving
Jan 27th 2009, 07:24 AM
Just a note. The Bible does not use the phrase "the great tribulation".

Further, while we all may have some tribulation at one time or another, the tribulation spoken of in the New Testament was spoken to those living at that time. Not us 2000 years later (2000 years is roughly the length of time from the call of Abraham to the cross - and after the apostles, God has been silent. For Christ is the more sure word of prophecy.) The Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to encourage those who would endure a great time of tribulation. But they were saved out of the destruction, for history records that all left Jerusalem during an "unexplained" lull in the siege by Titus.

You can rejoice in this as good news for us today. Or you can continue to speculate and let you imaginations run wild about horrors you fear will come. Putting this all in the future, where it cannot be verified till it happens, is a new view of eschatology. Traditionally it was not understood this way.

So, suit yourselves. As for myself, and others who do not hold to the Futurist teaching, we rejoice in the knowledge that God did what He said He would do. And He continues to. And Jesus will return bodily when we are resurrected. Until then, we do as He commanded us, and make disciples.

I'd say you need to read your Bible

Matt 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now--no, and never will be [again].

Rev 7:14 I replied, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they who have come out of the great tribulation (persecution), and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Steph

Libre
Jan 27th 2009, 04:24 PM
Rev.7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.Notice, no "the". However, the early church in Jerusalem did have tribulation. The time before the fall of Jerusalem was one of the most horrible in the history of our world. We aren't informed about it in our history lessons, but the information is available from historians of that day, as well as later.

And the Christians remembered the words of Jesus, and they all fled during an "unexplained" lull in the siege of Jerusalem.

HEY MOONGLOW, I just watch the Ken Gentry video, The Beast of Revelation Revealed. Excellent. I bought it. My dial up takes too long to load videos.

helios
Jan 27th 2009, 06:44 PM
I'd say you need to read your Bible

Matt 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now--no, and never will be [again].

Rev 7:14 I replied, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they who have come out of the great tribulation (persecution), and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Steph


I agree! I am not sure how bad the persecution of the early church was , but on the other hand I know that the persecution of jews during WWII was massive.. It has to rival that persecution of the early church..
There was 7 million jews who died during WWII , how many people was there on this planet in 70AD..

possumliving
Jan 27th 2009, 09:30 PM
Rev.7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.Notice, no "the". However, the early church in Jerusalem did have tribulation. The time before the fall of Jerusalem was one of the most horrible in the history of our world. We aren't informed about it in our history lessons, but the information is available from historians of that day, as well as later.

And the Christians remembered the words of Jesus, and they all fled during an "unexplained" lull in the siege of Jerusalem.

HEY MOONGLOW, I just watch the Ken Gentry video, The Beast of Revelation Revealed. Excellent. I bought it. My dial up takes too long to load videos.

So, because they fled Jerusalem, the Great Tribulation is already past? I don't see proof of the rest of the signs that Jesus gave having come to pass yet.

Goodness, my ancestors fled to America because of persecution. http://www.harlessgenealogy.com/winter_galley_ship/Introduction.htm

Our Harless story began in the upper section of Rheinland Pfalz (Rheinland Palatinate) of Germany, in the Landau City District of Muhlfofen, at the village of (unknown) Offenbach, Landau, Rheinland Germersheim.

The Palentine area of Germany had been devastated by religious wars between Lutherans and Catholics and overrun by invading armies in wars considered to be some of the most fierce and cruel fighting Western Civilization had ever seen. The area was not so much involved in the Thirty Years War (1618-1648) as were other areas, but it became the battleground for the French, Swedish, Spanish and the German Imperialists wars. Because of this there was widespread destruction of both people and property in this area between 1622-1707. During those years there were shiploads of German emigrants coming from Germany to America to avoid religious persecution.


Just because a group of people flee evil doesn't necessarily mean that it is a fulfillment of prophecy. I'm decended from Lutherans who fled.

I've also fled persecution and had to leave the state after my life was threatened by several cult groups.

Steph

Marjiealm
Jan 28th 2009, 11:04 PM
I thought this was rather interesting. Looks like this will get nasty again!

It looks like things are moving faster now!



http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5877 (http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5877)

Israeli air force bombs Philadelphi corridor in three waves


January 28, 2009, 10:11 AM (GMT+02:00)
Israeli towns and communities within rocket and missile range of the Gaza Strip were on tense alert after the Israeli air force struck the Philadekphi corridor border tunnels before dawn Wednesday, Jan. 28. Punishment was promised Hamas after a large roadside bomb blew up an Israel border patrol jeep outside Gaza early Tuesday, killing one Israel soldier and injuring three, one seriously, one week into the Gaza ceasefire.
Several smuggling tunnels caved in under the aerial bombardment. This may not be the end of Israel's response. Barack Obama's Middle East envoy George Mitchell is due in Jerusalem later Wednesday for his first visit. If Hamas goes back to firing rockets, he will land in the middle of another Gaza war.

possumliving
Jan 28th 2009, 11:47 PM
I thought this was rather interesting. Looks like this will get nasty again!

It looks like things are moving faster now!



http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5877 (http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5877)

Israeli air force bombs Philadelphi corridor in three waves


January 28, 2009, 10:11 AM (GMT+02:00)
Israeli towns and communities within rocket and missile range of the Gaza Strip were on tense alert after the Israeli air force struck the Philadekphi corridor border tunnels before dawn Wednesday, Jan. 28. Punishment was promised Hamas after a large roadside bomb blew up an Israel border patrol jeep outside Gaza early Tuesday, killing one Israel soldier and injuring three, one seriously, one week into the Gaza ceasefire.
Several smuggling tunnels caved in under the aerial bombardment. This may not be the end of Israel's response. Barack Obama's Middle East envoy George Mitchell is due in Jerusalem later Wednesday for his first visit. If Hamas goes back to firing rockets, he will land in the middle of another Gaza war.

I'm not exactly sure what this has to do with anything but the past couple of times I've opened my Bible, I keep getting this chapter.

Jer 47:1 THE WORD of the Lord that came to Jeremiah the prophet concerning the Philistines before Pharaoh smote [the Philistine city] Gaza.
Jer 47:2 Thus says the Lord: Behold, waters are rising out of the north and shall become an overflowing stream and shall overflow the land and all that is in it, the city and those who dwell in it. Then the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the land [of Philistia] shall wail.
Jer 47:3 At the noise of the stamping of the hoofs of [the Chaldean king's] war-horses, at the rattling of his chariots, and at the rumbling of his wheels, the fathers do not look back to their children, so feeble are their hands [with terror]
Jer 47:4 Because of the day that is coming to destroy all the Philistines and to cut off from Tyre and Sidon every helper who remains. For the Lord is destroying the Philistines, the remnant [still surviving] of the isle {or} coastland of Caphtor [where the Philistines originated].
Jer 47:5 Baldness [as a token of mourning] will come upon Gaza; Ashkelon will be cut off {and} be dumb. O remnant of their valley {and} of the giants, how long will you gash yourselves [as a token of mourning]?
Jer 47:6 O you sword of the Lord, how long will it be before you are quiet? Put yourself into your scabbard; rest and be still.
Jer 47:7 How can it [the sword of the Lord] be quiet when the Lord has given it an assignment to discharge? Against Ashkelon and against the [whole Philistine] seashore He has appointed it.

Steph

Marjiealm
Jan 29th 2009, 12:08 AM
This has to do with war beginning in Gaza again. Obama is trying to make his case to the Muslims (peace related). Imagine if he is able to get through to them and an agreement is made??? Many people look up to Obama ... there could be a peace deal signed or verbally spoken in the near future "Confirmation of the Covenant!"

Also, as far as you opening your bible to Jeremiah a couple times to that scripture ... I believe the Lord is revealing one of his many mysteries to you regarding Palestine (Philistines).

possumliving
Jan 30th 2009, 06:27 AM
This has to do with war beginning in Gaza again. Obama is trying to make his case to the Muslims (peace related). Imagine if he is able to get through to them and an agreement is made??? Many people look up to Obama ... there could be a peace deal signed or verbally spoken in the near future "Confirmation of the Covenant!"

Also, as far as you opening your bible to Jeremiah a couple times to that scripture ... I believe the Lord is revealing one of his many mysteries to you regarding Palestine (Philistines).

I'm not into that middle east history though. That is definitely not my strong suite! :blush:

God's been dealing with me on the End Times for a looong time. Then, it was The Creator and the Milk of the Word studies (which I found are totally misrepresented or not taught at all in most of the Churches) Then it was death and hades and those 'little lies' that people tell that are not based upon the truth.

But history? :eek: Hmm, I'm not so sure. God has always given me passages prior to something happening. I don't always know what they pertain to but He gives them to me. Such as, passages about whirlwinds before a major bunch of tornadoes, or flood passages prior to major flooding like happend last year in the bread/grain states.

I've even gotten earthquake passages prior to earthquakes.

He doesn't always give me the reason behind showing me the passages and many times I get them without realizing they are getting ready to come to pass.

He has given me dreams that have come to pass years later. In explicit details. They always come to pass but He never tells me how long prior to them happening.

Steph

My heart's Desire
Jan 30th 2009, 07:26 AM
J
Amos 5:18 Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! Why would you want the day of the Lord? It is darkness and not light;

Steph
This verse has caught me before also. Though I'm awaiting the rapture of the Church and not the Wrath of the Lord of THAT day.

Regardless, the truth is still there. One day, time will be up for unbelievers.

The Word in His love still says
For God so loved the world that He gave His Son so whosoever believes will have eternal life.

Today is still the day to accept His Love. When That day of the Lord comes will be too late.
Despite the wickedness of man, God still said He so loved the world.

Anyway, on that day, time will be up for the unbelieving.

resbmc
Mar 30th 2009, 03:38 PM
Why does it say he will keep you from THAT hour in Rev 3:10, not 7 years. that is the same hour in Rev 17:12, those 10 kings given power for one hour, this is just after the 7th trumpet and the rapture.

ChristBearer81
Mar 30th 2009, 07:22 PM
i would keep close tabs on tim geithner and company. bilderberg will be meeting in a month or so in greece. mass graves are being prepared in arizona, texas, illinois, and other states.

this is having me suggest that if martial law will soon be declared in the next several months, then there must be a cause. with these graves, i have been reading about these eugenic political powers preparing for some sort of false flag catastrophe involving plague and disease spread. they want the population decimated. they cant succeed in their last phases with so many people on earth.

ill dig up all sorts of stuff on this if anyone requests it. the new world order, as well as "the red and purple harlot on seven hills" is where we should look for our signs of prophecy.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAbhRxmA46I

wombat
Mar 31st 2009, 05:46 AM
Hi, everyone! I am hearing so many believers say they can hardly believe how fast events are occurring in light of Bible prophecy, and I too am wholeheartedly awed by God's timing and constantly amazed by the sudden rush of prophetically-important events we've been seeing within these last few months. April appears to be developing into an interesting month to watch. Among the highlights are the G20 economic summit, the 60th anniversary of NATO, a speech by President Obama in Turkey during which news reporters expect he will take a harsh stand against Israel and make a drastic change in America's longtime friendship with Israel (April 7), and Passover 2009 (April 8). Keep watching for our Lord's return!

ChristBearer81
Mar 31st 2009, 03:12 PM
...i always think to myself how lucky i am to be chosen to be apart of this era. i dont want to see death and destruction, but if need-be, (and dont think im a weirdo) but i would love the opportunity to carry my own cross and follow Jesus, if we are to be persecuted.

in all my imperfectness, i look to embrace The Son of Man...i hope He will love me, and know i have tried hard, for the daily mental struggles that He senses in my mind at all times...how i beat myself up, and think constantly of how i can improve, emotionally scratching and clawing to not be in darkness. i sense He knows, however.

wombat
Apr 1st 2009, 03:17 AM
...i always think to myself how lucky i am to be chosen to be apart of this era. i dont want to see death and destruction, but if need-be, (and dont think im a weirdo) but i would love the opportunity to carry my own cross and follow Jesus, if we are to be persecuted. in all my imperfectness, i look to embrace The Son of Man...i hope He will love me, and know i have tried hard, for the daily mental struggles that He senses in my mind at all times...how i beat myself up, and think constantly of how i can improve, emotionally scratching and clawing to not be in darkness. i sense He knows, however.
He does know, ChristBearer81--and He'll be carrying us as we carry our crosses for Him!

EagleWatch
Apr 3rd 2009, 10:17 PM
Looking back over history to see how people were treated when the world went through periods of chaos, I look towards any end time with a feeling of sober dread. You won't catch me dead smiling about it.

- Wrestling with the insanity of not taking the mark while my wife and I watch our infant child starve to death.
- Traveling to a haven while avoiding rioters or local militias turned despotic, (while presumably starving).
- Being packed into a traincar like the Jews of WW2, bound to camps for people who don't take the mark.
- Struggling against my bonds while a few marked soldiers decide they want to have some sport with my wife.
- The endless torture aimed at getting me to deny my faith and take the mark.

Victory or no... I can't look forward to those horrors with expectation.

What jumped out the most is in blue. Please don't ever deny your faith in Jesus or take the mark whenever it may happen. People are in fear right now because we see so many things unfolding. Fear Not dear one. I just came out of depression, fear just thinking about going 'through' The Tribulation if we are here.

beewagfella
Apr 4th 2009, 02:54 AM
I don't know if you heard of David Wilkerson's vision last March. He said he saw New York on fire and it was to spread through the whole nation, due to food shortages people are going to riot. I have also heard Lindsay Williams (known for the book Non-Energey Crisis.) He was on Alex Jones show and was talking about the same thing and even talking about putting us in Prision camps wich we already have 800 in the U.S. I know this sounds alot of gloom and doom. If there is anything more important I have to say is Stock up on canned goods water gasoline etc. If you are in the city get out go for more rural. You can see dave w. and lidsay w both on youtube. They are very reliable.

EagleWatch
Apr 4th 2009, 03:27 AM
I don't know if you heard of David Wilkerson's vision last March. He said he saw New York on fire and it was to spread through the whole nation, due to food shortages people are going to riot. I have also heard Lindsay Williams (known for the book Non-Energey Crisis.) He was on Alex Jones show and was talking about the same thing and even talking about putting us in Prision camps wich we already have 800 in the U.S. I know this sounds alot of gloom and doom. If there is anything more important I have to say is Stock up on canned goods water gasoline etc. If you are in the city get out go for more rural. You can see dave w. and lidsay w both on youtube. They are very reliable.

Hi Bee..Most definitely and if you get a chance to get his book "The Vision and Beyond" that was written April 1973. Some parts are updated . His prophetic insight about New York is going to happen.

It's time for the Joseph's to arise and get prepared to help other's. It's not gloom and doom because we are in the last days.

The Lord gave me warnings over 20 years ago and have them in journals that are now coming to pass. God always warns His people before things happen. I agree with Dave Wilkerson to stock up but never fear.

danield
Apr 4th 2009, 04:38 AM
Looking back over history to see how people were treated when the world went through periods of chaos, I look towards any end time with a feeling of sober dread. You won't catch me dead smiling about it.

- Wrestling with the insanity of not taking the mark while my wife and I watch our infant child starve to death.
- Traveling to a haven while avoiding rioters or local militias turned despotic, (while presumably starving).
- Being packed into a traincar like the Jews of WW2, bound to camps for people who don't take the mark.
- Struggling against my bonds while a few marked soldiers decide they want to have some sport with my wife.
- The endless torture aimed at getting me to deny my faith and take the mark.

Victory or no... I can't look forward to those horrors with expectation.

What jumped out the most is in blue. Please don't ever deny your faith in Jesus or take the mark whenever it may happen. People are in fear right now because we see so many things unfolding. Fear Not dear one. I just came out of depression, fear just thinking about going 'through' The Tribulation if we are here.

You know I personally think we as Christians will have a way to exit the great tragedies that will be falling on us if we can be resourceful enough for a short time. God will provide a way. What I am saying is the bible tells us in several places where our trials by the devil will not be ongoing for years. Look at this passage.

Revelation 2:10 10 Don't be afraid of what you are about to suffer. The devil will throw some of you into prison to test you. You will suffer for ten days. But if you remain faithful even when facing death, I will give you the crown of life.

Isn’t this a clear sign that our persecution by the devil is only but a short time. It specifically says Ten days in jail to some of those who belong to the church of Smyrna. So right here it gives us a definitive time frame in which we could possibly suffer in jail. And notice how this passage gives us the hint that only some of us will be thrown in jail… What happens to the rest of us? I can only imagine that the Lord will intervene in the devil’s plans and provide a way for us to escape either through the rapture or a migration to a safe state in which we can oppose the beast.

I think we need to be aware that this persecution could possibly happen to us and take precautions to be self-sufficient for a bit of time. There are several people who have voiced great ideas on how to take these precautions weather it was to plant a garden or buy some non perishable items to tie you over until your garden bloomed. You may even develop a trade in which you could easily barter your services as they did ages ago. In any event, I do not think the message is to give up hope because we will face possible persecution; it is the wonderful experience of living in a time in which we can witness the coming of our Lord. Think how wonderful it will be living in his presence! It also means all his teachings in the bible will be a way of life for everyone. So take a small precaution to make sure our suffering does not have to be as painful as you have described. Take up canning or plant a garden or both. It is fun. Then the mark will have no power over you. I personally do not think we need to fasten our seatbelts just yet, but for sure no man knows the hour of Christ return.

EagleWatch
Apr 4th 2009, 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleWatch http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=2034164#post2034164)
Looking back over history to see how people were treated when the world went through periods of chaos, I look towards any end time with a feeling of sober dread. You won't catch me dead smiling about it.

- Wrestling with the insanity of not taking the mark while my wife and I watch our infant child starve to death.
- Traveling to a haven while avoiding rioters or local militias turned despotic, (while presumably starving).
- Being packed into a traincar like the Jews of WW2, bound to camps for people who don't take the mark.
- Struggling against my bonds while a few marked soldiers decide they want to have some sport with my wife.
- The endless torture aimed at getting me to deny my faith and take the mark.

Victory or no... I can't look forward to those horrors with expectation.

What jumped out the most is in blue. Please don't ever deny your faith in Jesus or take the mark whenever it may happen. People are in fear right now because we see so many things unfolding. Fear Not dear one. I just came out of depression, fear just thinking about going 'through' The Tribulation if we are here.

You know I personally think we as Christians will have a way to exit the great tragedies that will be falling on us if we can be resourceful enough for a short time. God will provide a way. What I am saying is the bible tells us in several places where our trials by the devil will not be ongoing for years. Look at this passage.Revelation 2:10 10 Don't be afraid of what you are about to suffer. The devil will throw some of you into prison to test you. You will suffer for ten days. But if you remain faithful even when facing death, I will give you the crown of life.Isnít this a clear sign that our persecution by the devil is only but a short time. It specifically says Ten days in jail to some of those who belong to the church of Smyrna. So right here it gives us a definitive time frame in which we could possibly suffer in jail. And notice how this passage gives us the hint that only some of us will be thrown in jailÖ What happens to the rest of us? I can only imagine that the Lord will intervene in the devilís plans and provide a way for us to escape either through the rapture or a migration to a safe state in which we can oppose the beast. I think we need to be aware that this persecution could possibly happen to us and take precautions to be self-sufficient for a bit of time. There are several people who have voiced great ideas on how to take these precautions weather it was to plant a garden or buy some non perishable items to tie you over until your garden bloomed. You may even develop a trade in which you could easily barter your services as they did ages ago. In any event, I do not think the message is to give up hope because we will face possible persecution; it is the wonderful experience of living in a time in which we can witness the coming of our Lord. Think how wonderful it will be living in his presence! It also means all his teachings in the bible will be a way of life for everyone. So take a small precaution to make sure our suffering does not have to be as painful as you have described. Take up canning or plant a garden or both. It is fun. Then the mark will have no power over you. I personally do not think we need to fasten our seatbelts just yet, but for sure no man knows the hour of Christ return.

Hi Daniel...I have to disagree that we will exit the tragedies. I wonder why so many believe just because we're Christians will not go through with the rest of the world. We have to be a witness for Christ and all of the disciples or former men never escaped anything. God will provide and we have to use wisdom as He won't throw things down from the sky. He will use other's to help, but we have a responsibility to take care of our own household. There won't be any 'safe state' to oppose the beast. If we're here we'll have a choice to take the mark. God help all those who are thinking about denying Jesus as we talk. I do believe bartering will be one way, and many 'safety houses' are being planned.

paradiseinn
Apr 4th 2009, 05:41 PM
Why is everybody so worried about taking the "mark"? , it's refusing to worship the image that puts people to death. The "mark" goes to people that worship the image. Don't worry about being forced to get a "mark", worry about being fooled into worshipping an image.

Strength from Him
Apr 4th 2009, 06:22 PM
May be this is another thread----Is it at all possible that there will be people who reject the "mark" that will also not be Christians? Just a thought that came to my mind.

wombat
Apr 4th 2009, 07:05 PM
May be this is another thread----Is it at all possible that there will be people who reject the "mark" that will also not be Christians? Just a thought that came to my mind.
Hi, Strength from Him--sounds like a great new thread! I do believe that there will be people besides Christians who will refuse to take the mark. I suggest starting a thread about this.

paradiseinn
Apr 4th 2009, 07:13 PM
May be this is another thread----Is it at all possible that there will be people who reject the "mark" that will also not be Christians? Just a thought that came to my mind.

Good point!

I know that if the "mark" is a micro chip, people who like to do drugs won't take it.

EagleWatch
Apr 4th 2009, 08:36 PM
"If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God...the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." [Revelation 14:9]

EagleWatch
Apr 4th 2009, 08:41 PM
May be this is another thread----
Is it at all possible that there will be people who reject the "mark" that will also not be Christians? Just a thought that came to my mind.

Good question..Those who do will be in a heap of trouble. There's no way out once you take the mark. People in general accept things that are new. I don't know how the ac will present it, but he sure will make it appeasing to all

EagleWatch
Apr 4th 2009, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by Strength from Him
May be this is another thread----Is it at all possible that there will be people who reject the "mark" that will also not be Christians? Just a thought that came to my mind.

Good point!

I know that if the "mark" is a micro chip, people who like to do drugs won't take it.

People who inject drugs into their body would love the idea of something being 'implanted' in the skin. I don't believe it's the micro-chip

EagleWatch
Apr 4th 2009, 08:45 PM
Why is everybody so worried about taking the "mark"? , it's refusing to worship the image that puts people to death. The "mark" goes to people that worship the image. Don't worry about being forced to get a "mark", worry about being fooled into worshipping an image.

I'm not worried about taking the mark. I won't do it. The mark will go to anyone who wants it Christian or not. Many will be deceived if they don't know the Word of God

danield
Apr 4th 2009, 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleWatch http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=2034164#post2034164)

Hi Daniel...I have to disagree that we will exit the tragedies. I wonder why so many believe just because we're Christians will not go through with the rest of the world. We have to be a witness for Christ and all of the disciples or former men never escaped anything. God will provide and we have to use wisdom as He won't throw things down from the sky. He will use other's to help, but we have a responsibility to take care of our own household. There won't be any 'safe state' to oppose the beast. If we're here we'll have a choice to take the mark. God help all those who are thinking about denying Jesus as we talk. I do believe bartering will be one way, and many 'safety houses' are being planned.

The Mark is important because we will not be able to buy or sell even the very things we need to live. Imagine that today you can not buy any food with out taking the mark. This is the dilemma that many Christians will face when the beast takes over. So we must be prepared to endure such hardships for a while until we can either find a safe haven or the Lord’s return.

I want to make a point that I have never said that we will not face trials during the tribulation. In fact I am certain that we will, but where I am at a quandary is how long will Christians be exposed to the beasts rule before the Lord takes action to save his people. Where I am leaning towards is that the tribulation will start and poverty will spread throughout the world which will make people desperate to follow the beast who just so happens to display “miraculous signs.” So I am not sold that the mark will be established at the very beginning of the tribulation. I think it will appear somewhere during his rise to power, and it will hit some countries before others just as any transition does. Now it is going to be at this point that Christians will be persecuted for their beliefs, and it is here when we need to be prepared (at least in my opinion.) I could very well be wrong because much of this is just me thinking of how the transition of power could occur.

Now we do have to have reasonable expectations of what any soul could endure, and even those who are well prepared for those hardships could not last indefinably, and indeed heaven was not created for those who were the best pack rat, but I am sure some preparations have to be made to make it through the transition time of the beasts rule until we see the Lord’s return. The Bible even gives us a hint about what to do if you find yourself in Babylon.


Revelation 18:4-5 4 ∂ Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, "Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. 5 For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds.
Some believe Babylon is Europe, while other believe it is the Middle East, and even others think it is the Catholic Church. I can defiantly say it is not Antarctica! In any event, the lord gives us direction that we will face adjustments in our lives during those times, and I have voiced great concern to those who feel that we will escape the trials of that generation through a pretrib rapture. People are not happy with me for being so vocal, but I think it is extremely important to not only prepare spiritually but physically.

livingwaters
Apr 4th 2009, 11:32 PM
The Word of God says, HE will never leave nor forsake us!!!! It says, they that dwell in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty! It says, HE will not let us be tempted without an escape! So, I'll choose to believe what God, the Father, Creator of Heaven and Earth and all things therein promises in HIS Word, the Bible.

HE does not lie!!!! Alleluia...Alleluia...

God bless:hug: