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Partaker of Christ
Jan 19th 2009, 10:59 PM
Is the beast, antichrist, or the atheist son of perdition?

I may be wrong, but I don't think we should be looking for an antichrist, for antichrist has already come, and it is an 'it' (a spirit of antichrist)

Also, I don't think that 'antichrist' and 'son of perdition' are the same thing.

An antichrist will deny that 'this Jesus' (is the Christ) has come in the flesh. There are many religions that deny Jesus is the Christ, and therefore are antichrist, but they believe in a God.

The son of perdition say's 'there is no God', and that 'he' is god. He will not worship the god of his fathers, but a strange god (of forces). He will set himself up as god.

I think that 'atheism' has seen a masive increase with science, and evolution being the for runners.
Today (may be not so much in USA) there are many who say there is no God. Try and talk about your faith, and many say don't talk about 'religion'. It is not just Jesus Christ they reject (antichrist), but God, or even any god.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

So, we might be dupped into looking for an antichrist (already in the world), instead of looking for an atheist (not yet revealed)

quiet dove
Jan 20th 2009, 03:06 AM
An atheist would be "antichrist". And "the" Antichrist is going to do more than deny Christ, he is going to assume himself to be God and convince a lot of others he is, demand worship and so on.

Joe King
Jan 20th 2009, 04:00 AM
So, we might be dupped into looking for an antichrist (already in the world), instead of looking for an atheist (not yet revealed)

Great summary of events. It will be more than apparent who the anti-Christ is at the appointed time. We will not have to do any searching at all. Anything before then is pure speculation.

dan
Jan 20th 2009, 10:19 AM
He will have to appear to believe in Christ, initially, at least. Otherwise, how would he fool so many Christians?

ZECH 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

MK 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Joe King
Jan 20th 2009, 01:43 PM
He will have to appear to believe in Christ, initially, at least. Otherwise, how would he fool so many Christians?

ZECH 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

MK 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.


Dan, in my opinion, he will represent the 2nd coming of the false religions, who are all looking for a world teacher. I believe he will then persecute the Christians and Jews who will flat out reject him. Some Christians may fall away but it will be because of the "miracles" and preachings of the beast and false prophet. Judaism and Christianity will be the "enemy" at that time. The muslims are so devout, that I think he will have to come from Islam and the other religions will conform because they are simply looking for a teacher that will come in human form.

Partaker of Christ
Jan 20th 2009, 02:18 PM
An atheist would be "antichrist". And "the" Antichrist is going to do more than deny Christ, he is going to assume himself to be God and convince a lot of others he is, demand worship and so on.

Hi quiet dove!

An atheist would 'include' being "antichrist", but would an antichrist be atheist?
Judaism is antichrist, but not atheist.

As I have shown, an antichrist is one who denies, that Jesus is the Christ, come in the flesh.
An atheist denies the existence of a God.

I know we have long been looking for antichrist to come, but John's description of 'antichrist', does not fit the description of the beast, the son of perdition (or the wicked one)

quiet dove
Jan 20th 2009, 08:12 PM
Hi quiet dove!

An atheist would 'include' being "antichrist", but would an antichrist be atheist?
Judaism is antichrist, but not atheist.

As I have shown, an antichrist is one who denies, that Jesus is the Christ, come in the flesh.
An atheist denies the existence of a God.

I know we have long been looking for antichrist to come, but John's description of 'antichrist', does not fit the description of the beast, the son of perdition (or the wicked one)

The definition, the way I understand it anyway, is basically one who denies Christ came in the flesh, so that would include atheist (because denying God existence would also be denying Christ) and also anyone else who for whatever reason and whatever else it is they believe denying Christ came in the flesh.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

To me, an "antichrist" is anyone who denies God the Father, and/or denies Jesus Christ the, God the Son, came in the flesh, and thus the Gospel. Someone who denies who and what Jesus is. I mean a lot of folks out there even believe Jesus came but yet deny that He is God the Son, and that in itself is a problem because their entire understanding of who His is, what He did, and why He was the only One that could do it, is skewed. There are a surprising number of professing Christians that believe in Jesus the Son of God but not Jesus God the Son.

Partaker of Christ
Jan 20th 2009, 10:26 PM
The definition, the way I understand it anyway, is basically one who denies Christ came in the flesh, so that would include atheist (because denying God existence would also be denying Christ) and also anyone else who for whatever reason and whatever else it is they believe denying Christ came in the flesh.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

To me, an "antichrist" is anyone who denies God the Father, and/or denies Jesus Christ the, God the Son, came in the flesh, and thus the Gospel. Someone who denies who and what Jesus is. I mean a lot of folks out there even believe Jesus came but yet deny that He is God the Son, and that in itself is a problem because their entire understanding of who His is, what He did, and why He was the only One that could do it, is skewed. There are a surprising number of professing Christians that believe in Jesus the Son of God but not Jesus God the Son.

Hi again quiet dove!

Were the Jew's who rejected Jesus the Christ, antichrist or atheist?

quiet dove
Jan 21st 2009, 02:00 AM
Hi again quiet dove!

Were the Jew's who rejected Jesus the Christ, antichrist or atheist?

Thats a tough question. I guess the simpler answer would be antichrist, however, the Jews do not deny that there was a man Jesus who came in the flesh, and ancient writings (by those who denied Him as Messiah) show that they even knew this man Jesus had been seen by many raised from the dead, nor do they deny that God exist and promised them a Messiah (they just do not believe Jesus was him).

It seems that maybe all atheist are antichrist, but not all antichrist are atheist. In other words, and I do not really know now that you ask, is if, a person who believes in a false god is atheist, because is an atheist someone who denies the existence of the true God or the concept of any god. Are say.... Buddist atheist? Are they atheist and antichrist or just antichrist?

I'm not sure any of that made any sense at all.....:bounce:

dan
Jan 21st 2009, 09:54 AM
Dan, in my opinion, he will represent the 2nd coming of the false religions, who are all looking for a world teacher. I believe he will then persecute the Christians and Jews who will flat out reject him. Some Christians may fall away but it will be because of the "miracles" and preachings of the beast and false prophet. Judaism and Christianity will be the "enemy" at that time. The muslims are so devout, that I think he will have to come from Islam and the other religions will conform because they are simply looking for a teacher that will come in human form.

...Your feelings on the matter. But I believe that it is more obvious than that.

I believe that what the AC will force on us is a ridiculously overwhelming belief in "nonviolence". Also, that he will use Christianity as a tool in achieving it.

nonviolence \nan-v-i-e-lens\ n 1 : abstention from violence as a matter of principle 2 : avoidance of violence 3 : nonviolent political demonstrations nonviolent \-lent\ adj
(C) 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary (C) 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

I advocate the use of nonviolent political demonstrations and the avoidance of violence, but the abstention from violence as a matter of principle is beyond my comprehension.

And it is not Biblical IMO.

timmyb
Jan 22nd 2009, 02:58 AM
Paul makes it clear who the antichrist will be... he will be the man who sits in the temple in Jerusalem and declare himself to be God and demand worship as such... He will be the one who makes war with the saints and unleashes his rage against the Jewish people...

We know who he will be by what he will do... Not by his name.... to try to point out the beast or the harlot is to miss the real biblical reason Jesus gives us to study the End Times...

John 15:15 Jesus calls us not servants, but Friends for a servant does not know what his master is doing.. but a friend knows what his friend is doing... everything the Father told Jesus about the end times he has told us...

If your study of the End Times isn't producing intimacy with Jesus, then it's pointless for knowledge puffs up... Study of the End Times should produce love and confidence in Jesus and his leadership... it's not supposed to be a complicated subject it's for anyone to understand and know... Intimacy along with study of the word is the key to knowing what Jesus is doing in the end times... Friendship with Jesus is the only way to keep from offense in the end

dan
Jan 22nd 2009, 01:43 PM
Paul makes it clear who the antichrist will be... he will be the man who sits in the temple in Jerusalem and declare himself to be God and demand worship as such... He will be the one who makes war with the saints and unleashes his rage against the Jewish people...

If your study of the End Times isn't producing intimacy with Jesus, then it's pointless for knowledge puffs up... Study of the End Times should produce love and confidence in Jesus and his leadership... it's not supposed to be a complicated subject it's for anyone to understand and know... Intimacy along with study of the word is the key to knowing what Jesus is doing in the end times... Friendship with Jesus is the only way to keep from offense in the end

...Detail is too complicated?

DAN 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

You can see that before the AC sits in the temple, declaring himself to be God, he will take weapons away, a flood of weapons will be flown away from before him and broken, along with, it appears, all mention of Jesus Christ, perhaps.

Intimacy with Christ?

Jesus said that if you loved Him, you should keep His sayings. When Jesus says owning a weapon is more important than owning a coat do you believe Him?

When Jesus says that if a strong man is armed all his property is at peace, do you believe Him?

Joyfulparousia
Jan 23rd 2009, 12:21 PM
Is the beast, antichrist, or the atheist son of perdition?

I may be wrong, but I don't think we should be looking for an antichrist, for antichrist has already come, and it is an 'it' (a spirit of antichrist)

Also, I don't think that 'antichrist' and 'son of perdition' are the same thing.

An antichrist will deny that 'this Jesus' (is the Christ) has come in the flesh. There are many religions that deny Jesus is the Christ, and therefore are antichrist, but they believe in a God.

The son of perdition say's 'there is no God', and that 'he' is god. He will not worship the god of his fathers, but a strange god (of forces). He will set himself up as god.

I think that 'atheism' has seen a masive increase with science, and evolution being the for runners.
Today (may be not so much in USA) there are many who say there is no God. Try and talk about your faith, and many say don't talk about 'religion'. It is not just Jesus Christ they reject (antichrist), but God, or even any god.

So, we might be dupped into looking for an antichrist (already in the world), instead of looking for an atheist (not yet revealed)

Interesting post. Have you seen the documentary by Ben Stein called "expelled"? I'd highly recommend it.

I consider Atheism to be a religion.

Religion by definition is a set of stories, symbols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol), beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural quality, that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to an ultimate power or reality

For the Atheist the ultimate power or reality is to completely destroy a concept of a god that would require dedication, obedience, self sacrifice etc. In essence the true nature of Atheism isn't "No God" but rather "Self God." While the Atheist may not desire supernatural power they seek to shape their reality around the rule of self government.

in Luke 19 Jesus gives a parable about entrusting servants while He is away receiving a kingdom. It says in 19:14 that His citizens sent a message to him saying, "We do not want this man to rule over us."

I believe that Antichrist the man will claim to be the god of all religions beliefs etc. He will use his self proclaimed divine nature to seduce the false religions of the world who are seeking their "messiah," while using his intellect, charisma, and personality to seduce those who call on man rather than god for their solutions.

Joyfulparousia
Jan 23rd 2009, 12:26 PM
Hi again quiet dove!

Were the Jew's who rejected Jesus the Christ, antichrist or atheist?

There were not atheist (denying theism) because they still believed in God (the Father) and still awaited Messiah.

I don't know if you could say they were "Antichrist". Rather, they were operating in the spirit of the Antichirst which simply denies Christ as the Son of God.

timmyb
Jan 23rd 2009, 04:29 PM
...Detail is too complicated?

DAN 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

You can see that before the AC sits in the temple, declaring himself to be God, he will take weapons away, a flood of weapons will be flown away from before him and broken, along with, it appears, all mention of Jesus Christ, perhaps.

Intimacy with Christ?

Jesus said that if you loved Him, you should keep His sayings. When Jesus says owning a weapon is more important than owning a coat do you believe Him?

When Jesus says that if a strong man is armed all his property is at peace, do you believe Him?

you forget that God is raising up the Antichrist as a part of his plan to purify the church... you forget that God raises up ALL authority good or bad and the first Seal Judgement of the Tribulation is the releasing of the Antichrist...he goes forth to conquer the earth... there is no resistance to this man... we aren't praying for God to bless him, but there is no stopping him... and the only way to not be seduced by him and to withstand his rage against the church is to know intimately the one who is truely in control...

Jesus says very clearly in Matthew 25 that intimacy is the way to prepare for the end times... the falling away won't be because of the mark of the beast... the falling away will be the result of offense at God, the seduction of the Harlot church which I believe will be focused on serving the poor with little regard to one's eternal destiny and will deny that Jesus is the only way but will embrace all who want to serve the poor... Jesus makes that very clear in Matthew 24...

dan
Jan 24th 2009, 03:40 PM
you forget that God is raising up the Antichrist as a part of his plan to purify the church... you forget that God raises up ALL authority good or bad and the first Seal Judgement of the Tribulation is the releasing of the Antichrist...he goes forth to conquer the earth... there is no resistance to this man... we aren't praying for God to bless him, but there is no stopping him... and the only way to not be seduced by him and to withstand his rage against the church is to know intimately the one who is truely in control...

I would say that God will purify His Church because it does not pass the test of being what He wants it to be:

ZECH 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
ZECH 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
ZECH 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
ZECH 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
ZECH 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
ZECH 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

All authority is bestowed by God, to test our loyalty to His Word.

There is no resistance to the AC because man will allow himself to be disarmed, believing that someone else can protect them. Something that God and Jesus NEVER intended.

AMOS 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.


Jesus says very clearly in Matthew 25 that intimacy is the way to prepare for the end times... the falling away won't be because of the mark of the beast... the falling away will be the result of offense at God, the seduction of the Harlot church which I believe will be focused on serving the poor with little regard to one's eternal destiny and will deny that Jesus is the only way but will embrace all who want to serve the poor... Jesus makes that very clear in Matthew 24...

I believe that the "harlot church" you see as the enemy may be one of the first victims of the second beast's cohorts. However, when it comes to allowing the people to not defend their God-Given Life against murderers, many Churches are guilty.

REV 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:
REV 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

When peace is taken from the world...

REV 6:4 And there went out another horse [that was] red: and [power] was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

... It will be because we have forgotten what Jesus said about peace:

LK 11:21 When a strong man ARMED keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth.

If George Washington's Vision is accurate and we are disarmed, no wonder it is a disaster:

Then my eyes beheld a fearful scene: From each of these countries arose thick, black clouds that were soon joined into one. Throughout this mass there gleamed a dark red light by which I saw hordes of armed men, who, moving with the cloud, marched by land and sailed by sea to America. Our country was enveloped in this volume of cloud, and I saw these vast armies devastate the whole county and burn the villages, towns and cities that I beheld springing up. As my ears listened to the thundering of the cannon, clashing of sword, and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat...

JaneA
Jan 24th 2009, 10:42 PM
The antichrist knows there is a God. Satan was an angel with God, he knew there was God, he just chose to rebel and try to usurp Gods authority. The demons know there is a God. Really to say you are an atheist is to say you are dumber than a demon. The bible say, The fool has said in his heart there is no God. The antichrist will be pure evil, but he will be wise and crafty. He knows there is a God but he wants to take over Gods place. His destruction is sure.

timmyb
Jan 24th 2009, 10:54 PM
I would say that God will purify His Church because it does not pass the test of being what He wants it to be:

ZECH 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
ZECH 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
ZECH 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
ZECH 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
ZECH 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
ZECH 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

All authority is bestowed by God, to test our loyalty to His Word.

There is no resistance to the AC because man will allow himself to be disarmed, believing that someone else can protect them. Something that God and Jesus NEVER intended.

AMOS 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.



I believe that the "harlot church" you see as the enemy may be one of the first victims of the second beast's cohorts. However, when it comes to allowing the people to not defend their God-Given Life against murderers, many Churches are guilty.

REV 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:
REV 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

When peace is taken from the world...

REV 6:4 And there went out another horse [that was] red: and [power] was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

... It will be because we have forgotten what Jesus said about peace:

LK 11:21 When a strong man ARMED keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth.

If George Washington's Vision is accurate and we are disarmed, no wonder it is a disaster:

Then my eyes beheld a fearful scene: From each of these countries arose thick, black clouds that were soon joined into one. Throughout this mass there gleamed a dark red light by which I saw hordes of armed men, who, moving with the cloud, marched by land and sailed by sea to America. Our country was enveloped in this volume of cloud, and I saw these vast armies devastate the whole county and burn the villages, towns and cities that I beheld springing up. As my ears listened to the thundering of the cannon, clashing of sword, and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat...


I see nowhere in scripture that shows that we are to band together and fight against a man whom God will not allow us to make war with... Look at what the Bible says about preparing for the end times... it isn't stockpiling weapons and food... it's watching and praying... knowing Jesus... if the government of the Antichrist wants to have your property, what is a few shotguns and a man holed up in a house going to do to stop him...

this man will be possessed by satan himself, and he will come at us with weapons of fire and if we fight fire with fire, that's all the ammunition that his government run news association will need to show that we are just a bunch of crackpots... but a church that is intimate with Jesus will move in power with him... as we're getting persecuted and killed we will be moving with power... The Book of Revelation is just the Book of Acts for the end times..

Spirit Driven
Jan 25th 2009, 09:08 AM
Is the beast AntiChrist or Athiest ?

He is far worse than that....he is alledging to be a Christian!
That is how he is going to suck people into worshipping his way so easily...

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=155592&page=3

Peace

dan
Jan 25th 2009, 04:52 PM
I see nowhere in scripture that shows that we are to band together and fight against a man whom God will not allow us to make war with... Look at what the Bible says about preparing for the end times... it isn't stockpiling weapons and food... it's watching and praying... knowing Jesus... if the government of the Antichrist wants to have your property, what is a few shotguns and a man holed up in a house going to do to stop him...

I thought it rather obvious. First, we have the Holy Spirit telling us to be intolerant of murderers:

REV 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:
REV 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Then to make war with the whore:

REV 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
REV 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
REV 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

If you remember, the contents of the cup was the blood of the saints, amongst other things.


this man will be possessed by satan himself, and he will come at us with weapons of fire and if we fight fire with fire, that's all the ammunition that his government run news association will need to show that we are just a bunch of crackpots... but a church that is intimate with Jesus will move in power with him... as we're getting persecuted and killed we will be moving with power... The Book of Revelation is just the Book of Acts for the end times..

I can't picture it, please explain.

timmyb
Jan 28th 2009, 06:36 PM
I thought it rather obvious. First, we have the Holy Spirit telling us to be intolerant of murderers:

REV 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:
REV 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Then to make war with the whore:

REV 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
REV 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
REV 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

If you remember, the contents of the cup was the blood of the saints, amongst other things.



I can't picture it, please explain.


Scripture is very clear that the spirit of Elijah will fall upon the church... The book of Acts was God moving in partnership with his church to establish and spread the truth of the Gospel and saints being martyred and suffering for the sake of Christ yet in all that they were victorious through the power of God through his son Jesus...

The book of Revelation will be a time when the church will politically be powerless and oppressed by the government like in the Book of Acts, But what we saw in the Book of Acts, we will see on a much larger scale in Revelation... We will be rejoicing as God releases his judgements... We will see God move in such power upon the wicked who have set themselves in total and complete rebellion against him... We will have the heart of David in Psalm 68 as we see God destroy the wicked before our eyes, we will rejoice exceedingly... We will not only be rejoicing, but the greater works will be released through the church during the tribulation... we won't be cowering in a corner afraid for our lives with enough to get by... we will be moving in the power of Elijah during that time... before the great and terrible day of the Lord... the persecution will be severe, but the power that will fall upon the church will be what marks us as children of God...

dan
Feb 4th 2009, 03:19 PM
Scripture is very clear that the spirit of Elijah will fall upon the church... The book of Acts was God moving in partnership with his church to establish and spread the truth of the Gospel and saints being martyred and suffering for the sake of Christ yet in all that they were victorious through the power of God through his son Jesus...

The book of Revelation will be a time when the church will politically be powerless and oppressed by the government like in the Book of Acts, But what we saw in the Book of Acts, we will see on a much larger scale in Revelation... We will be rejoicing as God releases his judgements... We will see God move in such power upon the wicked who have set themselves in total and complete rebellion against him... We will have the heart of David in Psalm 68 as we see God destroy the wicked before our eyes, we will rejoice exceedingly... We will not only be rejoicing, but the greater works will be released through the church during the tribulation... we won't be cowering in a corner afraid for our lives with enough to get by... we will be moving in the power of Elijah during that time... before the great and terrible day of the Lord... the persecution will be severe, but the power that will fall upon the church will be what marks us as children of God...

But, what I see in scripture is different, somewhat.

I see a Church that has forgotten God's Laws and will be punished along with the rest of mankind, only a third of believers surviving:

AMOS 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

ZECH 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
ZECH 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
ZECH 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
ZECH 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
ZECH 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
ZECH 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

I see a Church that will not know other desires of God, and will suffer the consequences:

IS 65:11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
IS 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

Unless, of course, the lessons are taught, beforehand.