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reformedct
Jan 20th 2009, 05:47 AM
What if an angel told you you are about to give birth to the Son of God? lol could she have said no thank you?

crossnote
Jan 20th 2009, 06:10 AM
God knowing beforehand that she would have refused would not have picked her.

But that is hypothetical and proves nothing.

As far as free will goes, I take it she had previous faith in God through her upbringing, and as a believer was not a slave to satan as are unbelievers.
Her response, "Let it be according to thy word" indicated great faith as well.

Yukerboy
Jan 20th 2009, 07:30 AM
God knowing beforehand that she would have refused would not have picked her.

But that is hypothetical and proves nothing.

As far as free will goes, I take it she had previous faith in God through her upbringing, and as a believer was not a slave to satan as are unbelievers.
Her response, "Let it be according to thy word" indicated great faith as well.


Right, that worked out well for Jonah....

Mary had no choice but to do as she did.

Sirus
Jan 20th 2009, 07:36 AM
right, could and would are two different things

crystalbrite
Jan 20th 2009, 07:58 AM
What if an angel told you you are about to give birth to the Son of God? lol could she have said no thank you?

As a faithful servant of the Lord, she couldn't have said no. I mean, if you are faithful, how do you say no to God?
I'm in a situation right now, doing something I really have lost interest in doing, have asked the Lord to let me out of it, but I keep going forward anyway because the Lord has not told me otherwise. But, I would rather not. I still have the free will to quit, God would just send someone else to accomplish what He has put before me. But, my love for God supersedes my desire to quit what He told me to do. Same goes for Mary, I reckon.

DIZZY
Jan 20th 2009, 08:35 AM
In those days all the young girls new that one day the Messiah would come and they were all hoping that they would be the one chosen to carry Him. They didn't know How he was to come, but they did know he was to come soon.

If you were a woman and you knew the messiah was to come would you want to be the one to give birth to him?

crystalbrite
Jan 20th 2009, 11:41 PM
In those days all the young girls new that one day the Messiah would come and they were all hoping that they would be the one chosen to carry Him. They didn't know How he was to come, but they did know he was to come soon.

If you were a woman and you knew the messiah was to come would you want to be the one to give birth to him?

I have never heard that before. :hmm:

reformedct
Jan 21st 2009, 12:03 AM
In those days all the young girls new that one day the Messiah would come and they were all hoping that they would be the one chosen to carry Him. They didn't know How he was to come, but they did know he was to come soon.

If you were a woman and you knew the messiah was to come would you want to be the one to give birth to him?

good point. who would resist such a great honor?

timmyb
Jan 21st 2009, 12:07 AM
Right, that worked out well for Jonah....

Mary had no choice but to do as she did.

there are plenty of things you say no to God everyday inside of you... Does God 'control' that?

Israel says no to God even though it's clear that he desires them... Romans 10:3, and 11:1

faroutinmt
Jan 21st 2009, 12:14 AM
Humorous question.

I believe Mary had the limited ability to choose according to her desires.

Since it was her strong desire to please the Lord and in this case had the ability, she choose to do so. :)

karenoka27
Jan 21st 2009, 12:17 AM
God doesn't ask us to do things, He tells us what we will do:

Moses didn't want to be a leader.

Saul didn't want to be a king,he hid when it was time for him to be announced!

God told Elijah to go back to Jezebel when he had run away in fear.

Ananias told the Lord that he was afraid to meet with this Saul of Damascus who had been arresting Christians,but the Lord said Go.

All of these men did what the Lord required of them.

Makes me think of this verse:

Romans 9:20-"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"

crystalbrite
Jan 21st 2009, 12:22 AM
God doesn't ask us to do things, He tells us what we will do:

Moses didn't want to be a leader.

Saul didn't want to be a king,he hid when it was time for him to be announced!

God told Elijah to go back to Jezebel when he had run away in fear.

Ananias told the Lord that he was afraid to meet with this Saul of Damascus who had been arresting Christians,but the Lord said Go.

All of these men did what the Lord required of them.

Makes me think of this verse:

Romans 9:20-"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"



I still think she had the free will to decline the assignment, but being a faithful servant to God, as you said, she probably never questioned it.

karenoka27
Jan 21st 2009, 12:27 AM
If the Lord had said, "Mary, would you like to be the mother of My Son?" perhaps she could have declined. I don't think there was even a moment where she had the opportunity.

Luke 1:28-"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS."



Luke 1:38-"And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her"

I don't see here where Mary was asked. She was told as were the other men I mentioned.

timmyb
Jan 21st 2009, 12:59 AM
If the Lord had said, "Mary, would you like to be the mother of My Son?" perhaps she could have declined. I don't think there was even a moment where she had the opportunity.

Luke 1:28-"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS."



Luke 1:38-"And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her"

I don't see here where Mary was asked. She was told as were the other men I mentioned.



but even then there's the opportunity to agree with what God is doing...

for example...

God raises up authority and kings but the kings still have the ability and free will to do God's will... There's righteous and unrighteous authority and God raises them both up... but God's judgment is on those who choose wickedness... so that point alone would show that even though God does choose those he uses and raise them up the reality is they can still choose him or not

Mary wasn't perfect in the sense that God made her morally righteous by sinless perfection that the Catholics teach... Mary found favor in the sight of God simply because God so... she didn't earn it, but nor was she perfect...

one argument i have against the Calvinist doctrine... If I'm chosen to be the elect, then why am i not made in sinless perfection... why if I am in the will of God to be perfect am I constantly fighting and choosing things that are not of his will... how is it God's will for man to choose wickedness? there's no scripture at all that can back that up

HisLeast
Jan 21st 2009, 01:38 AM
What'll really twist one's melon is: would God have chosen her if she wasn't up to the task?

timmyb
Jan 21st 2009, 02:39 AM
What'll really twist one's melon is: would God have chosen her if she wasn't up to the task?

the reality of that is... how many of us does God choose to do something that we are up to doing? are we truly able to do what God calls us to do? The answer I have to that question is an emphatic NO.. but by agreeing that God has called us to whatever task we partner with what God is doing through us by asking for grace to do what we are assigned to do... many do not ask for that and therefore reject God's partnership in their task and the result is that it's exponentially more difficult...

God doesn't give us tasks for us to do something for him, he gives us tasks to reveal himself to us... if he simply wants something done for the sake of having it done he would do it himself... the purpose is for our hearts to see more of him as a result of working with him and being intimate with him... just as we see different parts of him in the secret place, we see different parts of him in the work we do WITH him, not FOR him

crossnote
Jan 21st 2009, 05:59 AM
What'll really twist one's melon is: would God have chosen her if she wasn't up to the task?

As with Paul so with Mary and the rest of us.

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
(Gal 1:15-16)

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
(1Co 15:10)

dan
Jan 21st 2009, 07:19 AM
What if an angel told you you are about to give birth to the Son of God? lol could she have said no thank you?

If the Catholic Church's belief that Mary was taken bodily into heaven is true, she was not an ordinary human anyway.

timmyb
Jan 21st 2009, 02:31 PM
If the Catholic Church's belief that Mary was taken bodily into heaven is true, she was not an ordinary human anyway.

not necessarily... Enoch and Elijah were taken bodily into heaven... but Mary was neither divine nor is she the intercesor that Catholics say she is

Firstfruits
Jan 21st 2009, 02:44 PM
Right, that worked out well for Jonah....

Mary had no choice but to do as she did.

Mary was a willing particepant, so why would she have said no?

Firstfruits