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pc_benz
Jan 20th 2009, 05:31 PM
Some might believe it's a bad thing to question your salvation, but I think it is the most important thing you can think about. You do not want to be wrong about being born again. When you die you will either have "Life" or "Death." There is no middle ground here.

So the question is, can you trust a sinners prayer? Scripture tells us that the heart can not be trusted.

Jeremiah 17:9

"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?"

We should always heed Paul's words in:

1 Corinthians 13:5

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Listen to John Wesley about being "Born Again."

"It does not matter if you have done no harm and do not live in any willful sin. You must go further yet, or you cannot be saved. Even if you also do all the good you can and have improved all opportunities of doing good, yet this does not alter the case. Still, you must be born again.

Without this, nothing will do any good to your poor, sinful, polluted soul. You may faithfully go to church and observe the sacraments, say ever so many prayers in private; hear ever so many good sermons; read ever so many good books. Still, “you must be born again.” None of these things – nor anything else under heaven – will stand in the place of the new birth to keep you from hell, unless you are born again.

If you have not already experienced this inward work of God, let this be your continual prayer: “Lord, add this to all Your blessing – let me be born again. Deny me not this: Let me be ‘born from above.’ Take away whatever seems good to You – reputation, fortune, friends, health – only give me this, to be born of the Spirit, to be received among the children of God. Let me be born of the incorruptible seed by the Word of God. And then let me daily ‘grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!”

- John Wesley

CoffeeCat
Jan 20th 2009, 07:18 PM
When we cry out to God and ask Him to save us, and give our lives over to Him, it is not our prayer we put our faith in. It's God we're trusting.

Fresco
Jan 20th 2009, 07:24 PM
When we cry out to God and ask Him to save us, and give our lives over to Him, it is not our prayer we put our faith in. It's God we're trusting.
Its more than that though, you're supposed to have good works also.
Be nice to people, do charity work, dont forget to tithe...etc..etc

CoffeeCat
Jan 20th 2009, 07:26 PM
Its more than that though, you're supposed to have good works also.
Be nice to people, do charity work, dont forget to tithe...etc..etc

Let me ask you: how does someone who is not a Christian go about becoming saved? What exactly has to happen before someone is saved, in your understanding?

Walstib
Jan 20th 2009, 07:32 PM
Hi pc_benz,

What are some scripture you would give to help one understand how to know? The study notes for the test lets say. This understanding they agree with you that one must be born again.

I Think of romans 8.

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (Rom 8:15-17 NKJV)

Peace,
Joe

RabbiKnife
Jan 20th 2009, 07:44 PM
I trust Jesus.

Fresco
Jan 20th 2009, 08:20 PM
Let me ask you: how does someone who is not a Christian go about becoming saved? What exactly has to happen before someone is saved, in your understanding?
All you have to do is ask.
I'm not disputing what you wrote, just adding to it.

You can't just ask to be saved, then leave it at that and not do anything for the rest of your life.
We're supposed to have good works also.

You dont agree with that?? :confused

livingwaters
Jan 20th 2009, 08:25 PM
If we are truly saved, we will love and desire to do good works for God's kingdom!!! Amen:hug:

pc_benz
Jan 20th 2009, 09:21 PM
Hi pc_benz,

What are some scripture you would give to help one understand how to know? The study notes for the test lets say. This understanding they agree with you that one must be born again.

I Think of romans 8.

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (Rom 8:15-17 NKJV)

Peace,
Joe


Great idea. How about these:

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NIV)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!


Born again means having a new relationship with sin. You should start hating the things God hates, and loving the things God loves.

Titus 3:5 (NIV)
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,


God gives mercy or grace to whom He will. Call out to God for grace!

1 John 3:9 (NIV)
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.


This does not mean if you are born of God (born again) you will never sin. It just means God will not allow His children to continue to sin over and over again (cannot go on sinning) with no regards to the cross. The Holy Spirit that comes to live within you when you are born again is very sensitive to sin. You should start wanting to live in holiness.

God says to be holy, because He is holy!

divaD
Jan 20th 2009, 09:31 PM
All you have to do is ask.
I'm not disputing what you wrote, just adding to it.

You can't just ask to be saved, then leave it at that and not do anything for the rest of your life.
We're supposed to have good works also.

You dont agree with that??


Do you believe that someone who is stranded on a deserted island for the rest of their life can be saved? How would they be able to do good works, such as feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc?
How would they be able to do anything with the rest of their lives if they are truely alone until their death?

Isn't there always exceptions to the rules? What about the thief on the cross? Didn't he end up being saved at the last minute?

Don't get me wrong, I believe doing good works is certainly an important aspect of being saved, but what about the 2 examples above? How do we explain them?

pc_benz
Jan 20th 2009, 09:53 PM
All you have to do is ask.
I'm not disputing what you wrote, just adding to it.

You can't just ask to be saved, then leave it at that and not do anything for the rest of your life.
We're supposed to have good works also.

You dont agree with that?? :confused

No amount of good works can cause you to be born again. However, good works is a sign of being born again. You should produce fruit of the Spirit, but you should never look solely at your works as evidence for your salvation.

There are a lot of good people who do good works, but are not born again and will not enter the kingdom of God.

Remember what Paul said in Esphesians 2:8-9

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Fresco
Jan 20th 2009, 09:56 PM
No amount of good works can cause you to be born again. However, good works is a sign of being born again. You should produce fruit of the Spirit, but you should never look solely at your works as evidence for your salvation.

There are a lot of good people who do good works, but are not born again and will not enter the kingdom of God.

Remember what Paul said in Esphesians 2:8-9

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
And do you think people with just faith, and no good works, will be entered into the Kingdom of God???

pc_benz
Jan 20th 2009, 10:19 PM
And do you think people with just faith, and no good works, will be entered into the Kingdom of God???

James 2:17

17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

It does not matter what I believe, it only matters what scripture says. But again, works does not cause you to be born again. We are saved by grace (undeserved), and if we did something to receive being born again it would not be grace.

Fresco
Jan 20th 2009, 10:55 PM
James 2:17

17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Thanx Benz, you proved my point with the last part ;)

We need "works" as well as "faith".
I think thats totally fair btw. If I were God I'd institute the same laws.

crystalbrite
Jan 20th 2009, 11:22 PM
All you have to do is ask.
I'm not disputing what you wrote, just adding to it.

You can't just ask to be saved, then leave it at that and not do anything for the rest of your life.
We're supposed to have good works also.

You dont agree with that?? :confused

Good works won't save you. You are saved by grace. You will do good works because you Love God and want to be obedient to His will, and it is His will that you do good for others, as Jesus teaches.

crystalbrite
Jan 20th 2009, 11:25 PM
And do you think people with just faith, and no good works, will be entered into the Kingdom of God???

what if someone becomes born again just minutes before he dies? He wouldn't have had time to do good eworks but it won't keep him out of th Kingdom. He just won't have any crowns to lay before Jesus.

Fresco
Jan 21st 2009, 02:55 PM
what if someone becomes born again just minutes before he dies? He wouldn't have had time to do good eworks but it won't keep him out of th Kingdom. He just won't have any crowns to lay before Jesus.
Thats a good point, but I'm just going by scriptures that say we must have good works also.

But you indeed make a good point

pc_benz
Jan 21st 2009, 03:04 PM
Thats a good point, but I'm just going by scriptures that say we must have good works also.

But you indeed make a good point

Just we are clear Fresco, good works has nothing to do with salvation "becoming born again." Scripture does not say we are "saved" by works. It is only by "grace" you are saved.

RabbiKnife
Jan 21st 2009, 05:56 PM
Good works are the result of salvation, not a requirement for it.

Fresco
Jan 21st 2009, 06:21 PM
Just we are clear Fresco, good works has nothing to do with salvation "becoming born again." Scripture does not say we are "saved" by works. It is only by "grace" you are saved.
But then it also says "Only those that do the will of God are saved".


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. -- Matthew 7:21 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/7.html#21)

Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- James 2:17 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jas/2.html#17)

I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/2.html#23)

Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/2.html#6)

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16.27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/16.html#27)

So while I agree we are not saved by works, only by faith, it doesnt mean you can just sit on your laurels and not do anything.

That was kinda my point ;) :)

pc_benz
Jan 21st 2009, 08:16 PM
So while I agree we are not saved by works, only by faith, it doesnt mean you can just sit on your laurels and not do anything.

That was kinda my point ;) :)

Yes I believe you are correct here. Those who are truly born again will want to express their gratitude to Christ for saving them from hell, this will normally lead over to works.