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mikebr
Jan 21st 2009, 12:37 AM
What exactly does that mean? If a person only knows in part can they truly reject in full?

crystalbrite
Jan 21st 2009, 01:09 AM
What exactly does that mean? If a person only knows in part can they truly reject in full?

That's a good question. :cool: I'm interested in the answer myself. I hope lots of people respond!

Vhayes
Jan 21st 2009, 01:13 AM
That IS a good question, Mike.

I would say that we will be judged by what we know. When Abraham did not know God and lived among the Chaldeans, he questioned the stars and such things as he saw in nature. Because he was a sincere seeker, I believe God gave him more knowledge. When he accepted that and still sought, God gave him more and so on until finally, He came to Abraham and explained Who He was and what He wanted.

Does that make any sense at all?
V

mikebr
Jan 21st 2009, 01:17 AM
So then will we be judged to the degree that we know?

It makes little sense to me that we could reject something that we know?

Vhayes
Jan 21st 2009, 01:22 AM
So then will we be judged to the degree that we know?

It makes little sense to me that we could reject something that we know?
I remember before I became a Christian, before I heard the gospel, having gentle nudges. Things that were brought to mind that I had done and regretted, things that had no logical explanation but had happened and I had lived when I should have died, watching the world falling apart around me. I think it was the Holy Spirit working in my life to prepare me to hear the gospel message. I think I could have heard that message and walked away but I did not - all the pieces and parts fell into place.

I hope that helps explain my thoughts a bit more.
V

mikebr
Jan 21st 2009, 01:28 AM
I remember before I became a Christian, before I heard the gospel, having gentle nudges. Things that were brought to mind that I had done and regretted, things that had no logical explanation but had happened and I had lived when I should have died, watching the world falling apart around me. I think it was the Holy Spirit working in my life to prepare me to hear the gospel message. I think I could have heard that message and walked away but I did not - all the pieces and parts fell into place.

I hope that helps explain my thoughts a bit more.
V


If you HAD walked away what would you have been rejecting?

Vhayes
Jan 21st 2009, 01:32 AM
If you HAD walked away what would you have been rejecting?
The knowledge that there was something "more"?

mikebr
Jan 21st 2009, 02:35 AM
The knowledge that there was something "more"?
I can understand not doing anything with the knowledge, not apprehending it, but I don't understand rejecting the knowledge.

Let me give an example. Lets say that my son says, "come on dad lets go build a snowman." and I say "there is no snow." I have rejected the idea that there is snow and I have rejected his request to build a snowman. But then suppose I look outside and see snow. I can no longer reject that there is snow. I can now only reject his request to build a snowman.


Does that make any sense?:hmm:

Mithrandir
Jan 21st 2009, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by mikebr
What exactly does that mean? If a person only knows in part can they truly reject in full?



I would approach that question by first noticing how God deals with the Gentiles who do not know God:

"Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them ." (Romans 2:14,15)

Also, notice when God called Abraham to leave his homeland.

"By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going." (Hebrews 11:8)

God tested Abrahamís faith by asking him to leave his family and home behind, and Abraham passed the test because Abraham loved God; period!

These Scriptures demonstrate that God knows that many people are honest in heart and they would gladly do all that He commands if only they had knowledge of His commands.

Hope that helps.

Brother Mark
Jan 21st 2009, 03:31 AM
So then will we be judged to the degree that we know?

It makes little sense to me that we could reject something that we know?

Jesus said things would be easier for Sodom in the day of judgment than it was for those in his day. Why? Because had Sodom seen what they had seen, they would have repented!

Romans 1 speaks to your question though. Man suppresses what he does know and therefor doesn't get new light. How did Cornelius come to know about Jesus? Or how did the Ethopian Eunich come to know about Jesus? Both were seeking God and God saw to it that someone was sent to tell them. How did Abraham come to know God? God himself showed up. Not everyone gets the same experience that Israel had with Jesus. But not everyone needs that same experience either. As long as we respond to the light we have, we get more light and God will give more revelation about himself.

9Marksfan
Jan 23rd 2009, 05:26 PM
What exactly does that mean? If a person only knows in part can they truly reject in full?

Yes - take for example a girl who lets her know she really likes you and would want to be in a relationship with you - you think about it, but say "no". You only know a little bit about her, but in saying "no" and walking away from any kind of relationship with her, you are rejecting her completely - it's the same with us. The Rom 1 passage says that ALL of us - to some extent - have a "knowledge" (ie awareness/consciousness) of God through creation - but we suppress it - and thereby reject it - rejecting God in the process in His entirety. That's why Jesus tells us again and again to make use of the knowledge we have - and to obey God when He commands us - lest a worse thing happen to us.....

Pilgrimtozion
Jan 23rd 2009, 05:40 PM
Romans 1 also says that man is without excuse. So whether man known in part or in full, apparently it is possible to be fully rejected in either case.

Pilgrimtozion
Jan 23rd 2009, 06:05 PM
1 Corinthians 13 says that on this side of eternity, we only know in part. If we knew fully, faith wouldn't be an issue, would it? The essence of faith is that, while not being able to see all aspects of everything and not having all the answers, you still choose to serve God and live for Christ. The fact that people only know in part does not mean they cannot be punished in full. People have a choice to have faith or not, they have a choice as to how they live their lives. Like I said in my previous post, people are without excuse because God has clearly revealed Himself to us.

mikebr
Jan 24th 2009, 03:01 AM
1 Corinthians 13 says that on this side of eternity, we only know in part. If we knew fully, faith wouldn't be an issue, would it? The essence of faith is that, while not being able to see all aspects of everything and not having all the answers, you still choose to serve God and live for Christ. The fact that people only know in part does not mean they cannot be punished in full. People have a choice to have faith or not, they have a choice as to how they live their lives. Like I said in my previous post, people are without excuse because God has clearly revealed Himself to us.


Now we see but a poor reflection;
then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part;
then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love.
But the greatest of these is love.


Has His Love been fully revealed? Is that what we only know in part?

Pilgrimtozion
Jan 24th 2009, 07:58 PM
We'd actually get somewhere if you try to answer the points being brought up in relation to the passage instead of asking new questions...

mikebr
Jan 24th 2009, 09:56 PM
We'd actually get somewhere if you try to answer the points being brought up in relation to the passage instead of asking new questions...


What particular question did you have in mind? If you copy the post I'll do my best.

Pilgrimtozion
Jan 25th 2009, 01:47 AM
I was speaking of the post I quote here.

mikebr
Jan 25th 2009, 03:18 AM
I was speaking of the post I quote here.
still missing it.

mikebr
Jul 3rd 2013, 09:06 PM
What exactly does that mean? If a person only knows in part can they truly reject in full?


We throw this out a lot, that people reject God. Could it be that just because they rejected us or our denomination, or our doctrine that they don't necessarily reject God. Obviously we get things wrong from time to time. What if they walked away because they rejected a wrong teaching. Did they reject God or a lie?

Gadgeteer
Jul 6th 2013, 05:00 AM
What exactly does that mean? If a person only knows in part can they truly reject in full?

Everyone is given a choice; it's between following God, or following sin. There is no in-between; he who does not commune with God through Jesus, abides in sin. He who believes fellowships with Jesus; he who dwells in sin does not believe.

Even those who have never heard of Jesus can know Him as far as their understanding allows; this is the message of Rom2:14-16. Paul also says in about the same context (Rom1:19-20) that Jesus can be known through what He has made.


So can someone who is truly saved, who truly knows God (and God knows him/her), become unsaved? Yes. See Gal4:11, 5:7, and 5:4. The entire letter of Hebrews warns against falling-from-salvation (ceasing to be born-again in 12:7-9). 3:8-14 warns us not to be deceived by sin to a hard heart that falls away from the living God. 4:11 warns us not to fall and fail to enter God's rest by imitating the disobedience and unbelief of Israel (see 3:18-19).