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vinsight4u8
Jan 21st 2009, 02:42 PM
Remember - John saw a king that was
---------------
this king is to come back one day - and rule again!

----------------

Did you know that Moses warned Israel of this yoke of iron man?

--------------------
Deuteronomy 28:48
"...he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee."

vinsight4u8
Jan 21st 2009, 02:43 PM
Jeremiah 28:14
"....I have put a yoke of iron....upon...all these nations..."

vinsight4u8
Jan 21st 2009, 02:44 PM
Consider this?

The yoke of iron was put on the nations - and then read Daniel 9:2.

"....he would accomplish seventy years...."


---------------------Was Daniel seeking info as to this same king?


--------------
Jeremiah 25:12
"And it shall come to pass, when seventy years...punish the king of Babylon..."


---------------There weren't any kings of Babylon left to punish when Cyrus the Persian was ruling at the end of the straight thru the calendar 70 years.

------------------take 605 BC. and then go 70 years forward - and what year do you arrive at?

535 B.C.

but the last Babylonian king was taken down by Cyrus in 539 B.C.

---------------Nebuchadnezzar is the king that will come back!
The former king must finish the years left of Babylonian rule and then be punished!

vinsight4u8
Jan 21st 2009, 02:45 PM
And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come..."

him
his son
his son's son
until the very time

of his land

The whole verse in is using Nebuchadnezzar as the main reference point.

----------------until the very time of his land come

v13
"...her time...her days shall not be prolonged."
v 10
"For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened..."
v 6
"Howl ye; for the day of the LORD..."
v 1
"The burden of Babylon..."
(Isaiah 13)


Babylon's final day to cry - won't come till the day of the LORD arrives!

vinsight4u8
Jan 21st 2009, 02:46 PM
Are you aware of this?

Jeremiah 30:7
"Alas! for that day [is] great, so that none [is] like it...the time of Jacob's trouble..."
v 8
"...I will break his yoke..."

vinsight4u8
Jan 21st 2009, 09:24 PM
Here's something else to point to Neb. returns>


Isaiah 14
v 31
...none shall be alone in his appointed times."

So somebody - wicked - has more than one time to rule.

v 29
"...shall come forth a cockatrice,
and...a fiery flying serpent.


--------As if to say, figure out who played the role in the Bible of the cockatrice and you are to expect that same person to come back as the fiery flying serpent.


Jeremiah 8:15
"...behold trouble."
v 16
"The snorting of his horses was heard..."
v 17
"For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices among you..."
v 19
"Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people..."


When I was witnessing to strangers - people would tell me that what I said sounded right - but then some would ask me -
If God called you to do the prophecy of the endtimes - then how come you don't know how to get the number of the beast (Nebuchadnezzar)?

I had worked on it at times, but didn't have a clue even After it seemed that people would start listening closer if I knew it, then I began to pray about understanding it. I do believe that I can explain it.

Solomon had 666 talents of gold.
What if that gold was put towards the temple that the wicked Babylonian king destroyed?

There is more to it.

It goes into how Belshazzar was weighed for his wickedness with the holy vessels.
weighed - for sin
a king is weighed for sin with holy items

Belshazzar was found wanting.
Eccl. 1 reveals - that means for some reason he couldn't be numbered.
as in - information was lacking
to meet the goal of finding out his number

----What if Nebuchadnezzar was weighed for his holy item type sin - and a number of 666 was the result?

vinsight4u8
Jan 21st 2009, 09:25 PM
Take the words of what made Daniel supplicate that were written by Jeremiah> >

...the word came to Jeremiah...he...accomplish seventy years in the desolations..." v 2

v 27
"...he shall make it desolate,...the consummation..."

-------------As in till the consummation of Jeremiah's words.

Daniel 9:27 has to be linked to Daniel 9:2's message about a "he" that is to desolate for 70 years.

Gabriel told Daniel
v 23
"At the beginning of thy supplications...and I am come to shew [thee]..."

Gabriel came to show Daniel how far off in the future it will head before the end of the Jeremiah's "he" Babylonian king prophecy.


-----------------Jeremiah 25:12
"And it shall come to pass, when seventy years...I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations."

rom826
Jan 21st 2009, 09:41 PM
Consider this?

The yoke of iron was put on the nations - and then read Daniel 9:2.

"....he would accomplish seventy years...."


---------------------Was Daniel seeking info as to this same king?


--------------
Jeremiah 25:12
"And it shall come to pass, when seventy years...punish the king of Babylon..."


---------------There weren't any kings of Babylon left to punish when Cyrus the Persian was ruling at the end of the straight thru the calendar 70 years.

------------------take 605 BC. and then go 70 years forward - and what year do you arrive at?

535 B.C.

but the last Babylonian king was taken down by Cyrus in 539 B.C.

---------------Nebuchadnezzar is the king that will come back!
The former king must finish the years left of Babylonian rule and then be punished!

are you saying Nebuchadnezzar gets raised from the dead?

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:08 AM
are you saying Nebuchadnezzar gets raised from the dead?

I do believe the Nebuchadnezzar of the past is coming back. I see it as he may be returning in a body that is already prepared for the lake of fire.
-----------

All of the wicked will be raised eventually, but it seems that two people are coming back early so as to be here for the great tribulation time.

---------
Another thing I notice is in Daniel 4. Look at v 17.

The wicked Nebuchadnezzar would be made a beast till seven times passed over him - and there was an intended outcome - as hopefully the king would get three particular things.

v 17
"This matter...to the intent...may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."

1. the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men
2. the most High chooses whom to put over kingdoms

but

now take special note of the third one.

3. the most High sets up the basest of men
///as in the intent of him being a beast is to take him all the way to even admitting - that he is the lowest of men
God did not pick Nebuchadnezzar because he is some super duper lovely thing in the eyes of God.

Oh, no - the king is to realize that all other men are better than he is. God has chosen the lowest and put him over Babylon.

Just before the king becomes a beast - Daniel will list what is going to be attained.

So we have the intended 3 things.
and then -------
Daniel only reveals that 2 of them will be admitted to by the king.

The third one the king will not admit to.
Nebuchadnezzar even after eating grass as an ox - will not see himself as the lowest of men.

Daniel 4:25 and 32 - plus Daniel 5:21 also show that Daniel knew the king will fail to believe the third part.

quiet dove
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:11 AM
I do believe the Nebuchadnezzar of the past is coming back. I see it as he may be returning in a body that is already prepared for the lake of fire.


Vin, thats reincarnation, no other way to describe it and I know you know reincarnation is not Biblical. Neb is dead, period, his soul is not coming back. His first body that he had, the one that is dead will be seeing the lake of fire, but he aint comin back.

tundra
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:22 AM
Vin, thats reincarnation, no other way to describe it and I know you know reincarnation is not Biblical. Neb is dead, period, his soul is not coming back. His first body that he had, the one that is dead will be seeing the lake of fire, but he aint comin back.


Amen to the reincarnation statement.

However....

Do you realize that Nebuchadnezzar most likely died as a humbled and righteous man of God? Ever read Daniel Chapter 4, which was written by Neb himself? From what we know from the Book of Daniel, it appears that we will see Neb. in heaven one day because he was humbled by God.

RevLogos
Jan 22nd 2009, 02:33 AM
Amen to the reincarnation statement.

However....

Do you realize that Nebuchadnezzar most likely died as a humbled and righteous man of God? Ever read Daniel Chapter 4, which was written by Neb himself? From what we know from the Book of Daniel, it appears that we will see Neb. in heaven one day because he was humbled by God.

Yep. After loosing his kingdom and living as an animal for a few years, looks like ol' Neb finally "got it" and had this to say:

Dan 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

He'd probably make a far better leader today than most politicians.

timmyb
Jan 22nd 2009, 02:50 AM
Amen to the reincarnation statement.

However....

Do you realize that Nebuchadnezzar most likely died as a humbled and righteous man of God? Ever read Daniel Chapter 4, which was written by Neb himself? From what we know from the Book of Daniel, it appears that we will see Neb. in heaven one day because he was humbled by God.


that's a very good point... and also keep in mind Daniel had the vision of the Beast AFTER the death of Nebuchadnezzar... it was during the first year of his son Belshazzar that he started receiving end times revelation...

quiet dove
Jan 22nd 2009, 04:47 AM
Amen to the reincarnation statement.

However....

Do you realize that Nebuchadnezzar most likely died as a humbled and righteous man of God? Ever read Daniel Chapter 4, which was written by Neb himself? From what we know from the Book of Daniel, it appears that we will see Neb. in heaven one day because he was humbled by God.

I thought more about him after I posted and I did over step as I have no idea nor right to judge his eternal destiny.

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 10:47 AM
Daniel never speaks of the king as changed - as in righteous.

Look at how the king was spoken about before being a beast and after.
Remember to be saved - the king would have to do away with his fake gods.
Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4 only refers to his type of god one time.

Daniel 4:9
"...spirit of the holy gods is in thee,..."
v 8
"...according to the name of my god..."

Never in this chapter does the king change whom is god is.

Many other times would seem as if the king was close to changing his ways too - but he clung to his fake god still.

Daniel 2:37
"...for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom..."
v 46
"Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worhsipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him."
v 47
"The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth [it is], that your God [is] a God of gods, and a Lord of kings..."

-------------
Daniel 1:2
"And the LORD gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god..."

(Babylonian tradition has that taking from a land they captured - god-type of stuff and placing it in the
temple to their Babylonian god, shows their god captured the other god).

The vessels were still there years later, in the days of Belshazzar.

After being a beast, tradition has it that the king didn't even release the Judah king from his prison - and even put his own son in there with him.
as to: Nebuchadnezzar didn't like the way the empire was run while he was gone.

Scripture shows that once Nebuchadnezzar was dead - his son then ran the empire and released the king of Judah.
/Tradition has that they became friends in prision.


2 Kings 25:27
'And it came to pass in the seven and thirtieth year of the captivity of Jehoiachin king of Judah,...that Evilmerodach king of Babylon in the year that he began to reign did lift up the head of Jehoiachin king of Judah out of prison."
v 28
"And changed his prison garments: and he did eat bread continually before him all the days of his life."

---------------

As to how would he come back?
We are told in Rev. 17 - beast was
is not

Yet this king that was one of five fallen kings is coming back to be the eighth.

What if the king comes back in his already prepared for the lake of fire body?

All of the wicked will eventually be resurrected - they will find then that their names are not in the book of llfe - they were blotted out.
they rejected God - Jesus Christ

Then they will go to the lake of fire.

Okay, what if two people are to come back early and be made ready for the pit -
the wicked fallen king
and the false prophet
?

We know they are already doomed to the lake of fire - so they won't be at the time of the opening of the books.

The Bible has it - who can make war with him?

What if he is in a special body - a ready for the lake of fire - to be doomed forever body?

Reincarnation is truly not the way - and a person in that belief could come back as animals or such.

What I'm talking about is - out of the pit - maybe comes the ready for the lake of fire person of Nebuchadnezzar.

This man was not saved, even after being a beast - he never said God.
but the - King of heaven

Hey, what about - using the word God - and also - God of the earth.
The king was to understand that he is the lowest of men - but after being a beast - he told others that they are reputed as nothing.
As for him - majesty was added

The very first thing written as to what the king did was - lift up his eyes toward heaven.

In the New Testament parable - the humble man would not do that.

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 10:59 AM
We have to look closely at what happens in Daniel 4.

Consider that the letter is written by a king
to his people.

"Nebuchadnezzar the king...unto...that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied to you."

Well, there ya go - a peacemaker - a gentle king.
Not ever according to Daniel's words though.

v 2
"I thought it good to shew the signs and wonders that the high God hath wrought toward me."

"the high God"
What we need to see is that down in v 8 we find
"...Daniel came in before me, whose name was...according to the name of my god."

Nebuchadnezzar never changed his god.

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 11:04 AM
The letter - Daniel 4
a king
writing to the inhabitants of the earth

v 35
"And all of the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing...v 36 At the same time my reason returned unto me...and I was established in my kingdom..."

take that part - Babylonian records show that means the king had to honour his fake Babylonian god
- they did it once a year - to reconfirm the king
- or to confirm a new king

"established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me."

added
unto

Where is the man ever being humbled?

Even Daniel writes as to always leaving that part out. Daniel knew that even before the king was a beast - that he would never admit that he is the lowest of men.

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 11:39 AM
Luke 18 - the parable ref'd to in my previous post.

v 9
"And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others."

v 10
"Two men went up to the temple to pray..."
v 11
"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God I thank thee, that I am not as other men..."
v 13
"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, God be merciful to me a sinner."


------------after Nebuchadnezzar was a beast-

Daniel 4:34
"At the end of the days, I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me..."
v 35
"All the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing..."
v 36
"At the same time my reason returned...brightness returned unto me...excellent majesty was added unto me."

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 11:45 AM
Before the king was a beast - Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar this> >

v 27
"Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor..."


--------------Note the third part is always left off where Daniel writes as to what the king would and did attain.

Compare closely Daniel 4:32 with 4:17.

Daniel always leaves out the part as to
"setteth up over it the basest of men"

Daniel knew the king would fail to admit to that.
Even eating grass wouldn't break the extreme pride of Nebuchadnezzar.

Veretax
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:39 PM
Not to spoil the thread, but I thought the name "nebuccahdnezzar" was actually the title of their kings in Babylon, and not necessarily indicative of any particular king as a first name.

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:49 PM
Not to spoil the thread, but I thought the name "nebuccahdnezzar" was actually the title of their kings in Babylon, and not necessarily indicative of any particular king as a first name.

Nebuchadnezzar that took the Jews captive was actually in history as Nebuchadnezzar II.

I'm not aware of it being used as a title - I would think because not many Babylonian kings came after his reign that it wasn't.

I'll post a list of the Babylonian kings and their reigns, so back in a bit.

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 01:01 PM
From Holman Bible Dictionary
pages 142-143

"Nebuchadnezzar II (605 -562 B.C.)
"His successors "his son Awel-marduk (561-560 B.C.)"
"Neriglissar (560 -558 B.C)"
Labashi-Marduk (557 B.C.), murdered as a mere child"
Nabonidus (556-539 B.C.) joint under Belshazzar at the end
"In 539 B.C., The Persian Cyrus II (the Great) enetered Babylon
without a fight. Thus ended Babylon's dominant role in Near
Eastern politics."

John146
Jan 22nd 2009, 03:41 PM
I do believe the Nebuchadnezzar of the past is coming back. I see it as he may be returning in a body that is already prepared for the lake of fire.And who do you believe would resurrect him?

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 05:00 PM
And who do you believe would resurrect him?

God will. In Rev. 13 we find that one of the seven heads will be wondered after.

Rev. 13:3
" And...one of his heads...was healed...all the world wondered after the beast.

----------

Rev. 17
v 11
"And the beast that was...even he is the eighth..."


------------
Daniel 7:11
"I beheld...till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, given to the burning flame."

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 05:03 PM
Rev. 19:20
"And the beast was taken,...cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

John146
Jan 22nd 2009, 05:11 PM
God will. In Rev. 13 we find that one of the seven heads will be wondered after.

Rev. 13:3
" And...one of his heads...was healed...all the world wondered after the beast.

----------

Rev. 17
v 11
"And the beast that was...even he is the eighth..."


------------
Daniel 7:11
"I beheld...till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, given to the burning flame."So, you think God is going to resurrect Nebuchadnezzar so that he can deceive the world and make war with the saints? Why would He do that to His people?

vinsight4u8
Jan 22nd 2009, 05:21 PM
So, you think God is going to resurrect Nebuchadnezzar so that he can deceive the world and make war with the saints? Why would He do that to His people?


Because the Jews have more time left to serve Babylon. There must one day be a Babylonian king around at the end of 70 years that gets punished by God.


Do you agree that Babylon lasted from Nebuchadnezzar II for the prophecy of Jeremiah 25 - to when the last king so far fell - was slain by Cyrus?

So 605 to 539 B.C.
In 539 was when the last Babylon king died.

So where is the one that will be around at the end of 70 years?


God will use Nebuchadnezzar - for the yoke of iron lasts 70 years - where they must serve Babylonian kings.

----------
What do you think was the reason that Daniel supplicated at the start of Daniel 9?

He had read something in Jeremiah about a he.
This he must desolate for 70 years.

Gabriel came due to Daniel's supplications,
so doesn't that mean the 70 years of this he must come to its end during the time that Gabriel then begins to reveal to Daniel?

John saw a beast that was.
a king that was fallen

Nebuchadnezzar was called the yoke of iron.
Just before that yoke went on Israel - God let them know that all of the other yokes were removed.

What yoke do you think breaks in Jeremiah 30?
in the time of Jacob's trouble

John146
Jan 22nd 2009, 08:42 PM
Because the Jews have more time left to serve Babylon. There must one day be a Babylonian king around at the end of 70 years that gets punished by God.


Do you agree that Babylon lasted from Nebuchadnezzar II for the prophecy of Jeremiah 25 - to when the last king so far fell - was slain by Cyrus?

So 605 to 539 B.C.
In 539 was when the last Babylon king died.

So where is the one that will be around at the end of 70 years?


God will use Nebuchadnezzar - for the yoke of iron lasts 70 years - where they must serve Babylonian kings.

----------
What do you think was the reason that Daniel supplicated at the start of Daniel 9?

He had read something in Jeremiah about a he.
This he must desolate for 70 years.

Gabriel came due to Daniel's supplications,
so doesn't that mean the 70 years of this he must come to its end during the time that Gabriel then begins to reveal to Daniel?

John saw a beast that was.
a king that was fallen

Nebuchadnezzar was called the yoke of iron.
Just before that yoke went on Israel - God let them know that all of the other yokes were removed.

What yoke do you think breaks in Jeremiah 30?
in the time of Jacob's troubleSorry, but nothing you're saying makes any sense to me. I think your theory that Nebuchadnezzar will be resurrected or reincarnated is far fetched, to say the least.

fontz
Jan 23rd 2009, 12:21 AM
ok i know i should keep my mouth shut but the Bible does not allow reincarnation..no offense but:confused

vinsight4u8
Jan 24th 2009, 02:32 PM
Why do you think John has told us about a beast

king

that was
?????

This is the kind of a king to expect in the end days.

--------------------Rev. 17
"And the beast that was..."
v 11


v 10 "...kings: five are fallen..."

vinsight4u8
Jan 24th 2009, 02:37 PM
Hi John146

Do you agree that all the yokes were broken off of Israel prior to the tme of Nebuchadnezzar's?


----------Jeremiah
2:20
"For of old time, I have broken thy yoke..."


-----------------
What do you think happens in Jeremiah 28:14 and 30:6-9?


Rev. 17
beast was
five kings are fallen

vinsight4u8
Jan 24th 2009, 02:44 PM
When God's word comes to pass more in the end days, the church should know clearly what is happening;for things have been prophesied.

God has not just shown us that a wicked king will reign - but John saw that he is one of five fallen kings.

about 95 A.D>
John is
but the king was

So we must take the year 95 A.D. and head all the way back to the yoke of iron going on the necks of the world event.

605 B.C. to 95 A.D.> >> beast rules /yoke breaks (yr?)
(yoke)


(Somewhere in this timeline is the beast that is going to come out of the pit.)

vinsight4u8
Jan 24th 2009, 02:55 PM
Sorry, but nothing you're saying makes any sense to me. I think your theory that Nebuchadnezzar will be resurrected or reincarnated is far fetched, to say the least.

--------resurrected

Eventually, all wicked people will get resurrected.
Why couldn't two people have theirs earlier than the rest?

as - the king that was
and the false prophet - "another beast coming up out of the earth"
Rev. 13

---------
You said that what I'm saying doesn't make sense. Yet, you didn't tell me your thoughts on what I had said.

Such -as
Why did Daniel supplicate over a Jeremiah prophecy of seventy years?

Daniel 9:2 shows that he found something in Jeremiah's writings as to a "he" that desolates for seventy years.

What do you think about linking that up with the Jeremiah part that he was supplicating over was Jeremiah 25:11-12?

The time has yet to come when that Babylon king ends the 70 years time for Babylonians!

vinsight4u8
Jan 24th 2009, 03:07 PM
What do you think Jeremiah 51:33-49 is about?

v 49
"As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth."
v 45
"My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD."


Never has Israel fled from the land of Babylon under a Babylonian king.

v 34
"Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon hath devoured me..."
v 41
"How is Sheshach taken!..."


-------------Jeremiah 25:26
"And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them."

Veretax
Jan 24th 2009, 04:53 PM
What do you think Jeremiah 51:33-49 is about?

v 49
"As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth."
v 45
"My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD."


Never has Israel fled from the land of Babylon under a Babylonian king.

v 34
"Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon hath devoured me..."
v 41
"How is Sheshach taken!..."


-------------Jeremiah 25:26
"And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them."





Maybe my understanding of what happened to Israel/Judah is incorrect, but Did they not FLEE into jerusalem and were under siege for a time before being taken captivity? I would define hiding in a city as in essence fleeing from an enemy.

vinsight4u8
Jan 25th 2009, 12:10 AM
Maybe my understanding of what happened to Israel/Judah is incorrect, but Did they not FLEE into jerusalem and were under siege for a time before being taken captivity? I would define hiding in a city as in essence fleeing from an enemy.


The Jews have to flee from the land of Babylon.

Jeremiah 50:8
"Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldans..."

Chapeter 51 is continuing the prophecy and it shows how Israel must flee from Babylon - due to the punishment that will befall Babylon.
Babylon in the endtimes will be made desolate. As the chapter gets to its end - Jeremiah leaves no doubt as to what Babylon place he means - the river Euphrates

"read all these words:
"thou hast spoken against this place"

Veretax
Jan 25th 2009, 03:31 AM
The Jews have to flee from the land of Babylon.

Jeremiah 50:8
"Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldans..."

Chapeter 51 is continuing the prophecy and it shows how Israel must flee from Babylon - due to the punishment that will befall Babylon.
Babylon in the endtimes will be made desolate. As the chapter gets to its end - Jeremiah leaves no doubt as to what Babylon place he means - the river Euphrates

"read all these words:
"thou hast spoken against this place"

I believe this prophecy has already been fulffileld. It is known in history that Cyrus I think was the Mede came up under the water


If memory serves Cyrus defeated the babylonian army outside of the city, and they retreated within the walls. Cryus's army then diverted the euphrates and were able to get under the city walls.

Spirit Driven
Jan 25th 2009, 08:01 AM
THE BEASTS OF DANIEL,
CHAPTER SEVEN

The day of a one-world government draws nigh. This government will not only be a political power, but a religious one, as it will demand worship (Rev. 13:15).

The wild beast that ascends out of the sea in Revelation 13:1 is the fourth, last and most terrible beast Daniel described in chapter seven of his prophecy. We are accustomed to making these beasts political powers. But there are more than four political powers in the world. Yet there are only four major religions: Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. All minor religions are offshoots of these. And remember, we just discovered that the beast to come will demand worship.

Note how Daniel began describing these four beasts: "Perceiving am I in my vision by night, and behold, four winds of the heavens are rushing forth to the vast sea, and four monstrous animals are coming up from the sea, diverse one from another.

The eastern animal is a lioness..." and then he goes on to describe three more monstrous animals. The point I want to make is this: Daniel describes the lioness as the eastern animal. ("Eastern" is a good translation of the Chaldee "qdmi." The stem "qdm" is used in both Chaldee and Hebrew to denote precedence and east.)The following three monstrous animals, then, proceed in a westerly direction.


Now, dig your world atlas out of the game closet and note that, geographically, the aforementioned four religions move East to West, Buddhism being predominantly in Eastern Asia, Hinduism in India, Islam in the Arab world and Christianity in Europe and the Americas. The beasts of Daniel, chapter seven do the same. Coincidence? No. This is further evidence that the beasts are religions.

Are you sitting down? Good. The fourth, most western beast of Daniel's prophecy (the "wild beast" of Revelation 13:1) is Christianity. Daniel describes her as having "teeth of iron, claws of copper, devouring, pulverizing and stamping upon the remainder with her feet" (Dn. 7:19).

Who is armed to the hilt with "teeth of iron" and "claws of copper?" (I presume you watched the Gulf War.) Answer: the West. Who has the power to subject the world under its so-called "Judeo-Christian" leadership? (I assume you watched the Gulf War.) Answer: the West.

vinsight4u8
Jan 25th 2009, 06:22 PM
Remember in Rev. 13 - we are told the names of the seven heads,

blasphemy


One of the dead heads has that name -- same as the others - but his totals 666.


Oen dead king gets his deadly wounded head healed.

comes to power again

the world will wonder!

threebigrocks
Jan 25th 2009, 08:28 PM
Are you sitting down? Good. The fourth, most western beast of Daniel's prophecy (the "wild beast" of Revelation 13:1) is Christianity. Daniel describes her as having "teeth of iron, claws of copper, devouring, pulverizing and stamping upon the remainder with her feet" (Dn. 7:19).

Who is armed to the hilt with "teeth of iron" and "claws of copper?" (I presume you watched the Gulf War.) Answer: the West. Who has the power to subject the world under its so-called "Judeo-Christian" leadership? (I assume you watched the Gulf War.) Answer: the West.

Could you clarify, because this doesn't sound quite like anything I've ever understood that scripture to mean.

RevLogos
Jan 26th 2009, 02:56 PM
If the end-times are reasonably soon – soon enough that the current political dynamics are still in place when Jesus returns, then I see two great enemies of Christ.

First, we see those who very specifically have as their enemy Christians and Jews. Those who wish to crush the “People of the Book” by force of arms and terror. This is of course the fundamental Muslim world.

But when Paul spoke of a great falling away he was speaking of another enemy. Not those who wish to destroy Christ, but those who seek to replace Christ. To change Christ into something he’s not, in the guise of Christianity. I speak of such worldviews as the prosperity Gospel; Name it and Claim it; Westboro; the Emergent church; the Jesus Seminar; Christian anti-Semitism which tears at the roots of the tree we’ve been grafted in to; opulent mega-churches whose leaders worship the dollar; new age spiritualism such as what Oprah espouses that see Christ as a guru, but worship materialism or humanism; and many others. All of these want to change Jesus into another person leading people away from truth.

So I beg to ask the question: which is worse? Those who wish to destroy Christ with arms and terror? Or those who wish to replace Christ with false teachings that turn us away from the One True God?

I believe this second group is what Paul referred to when he spoke of the great apostasy that must precede the man of lawlessness. Much of 2nd Peter, also very apocalyptic, is dedicated to the rise of these false teachings.

So we have an enemy which seeks to destroy from without, and one who seeks to destroy from within. I am not entirely convinced there will be a single person we call the "Antichrist", but if there is, this person would have to combine these opposing forces. He would have to be convincing to both Muslims and Christians.

Babylon contains the enemy within.

John146
Jan 26th 2009, 06:09 PM
--------resurrected

Eventually, all wicked people will get resurrected.
Why couldn't two people have theirs earlier than the rest?Because scripture says that all people will be resurrected at the same time.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.