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elicohen
Jan 21st 2009, 08:56 PM
I was researching eternal conscious torment in hell and I wanted to know what you guys thought of some of the ideas that popped into my mind:


If eternal conscious torment in hell has always been the after-death fate of the wicked, why is the only threat/warning of hell made by Jesus in the rich man Lazarus parable --and that only to Israel? Shouldn't God have defined the sentence of hell back in Adam's day --and to all peoples and nations?
And speaking of threats/warnings of hell...John is said to have seen people burning in hell in Revelation. Why in the world isn't every word out of his mouth/in his letters a praise to God for saving him from such a fate...and a warning to the wicked to repent or suffer such a fate. I mean who among us can literally see people burning in hell and not warn our fellow man over and over and over and over again.
If you guys have any thoughts please share. Thanks.

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 21st 2009, 09:29 PM
I was researching eternal conscious torment in hell and I wanted to know what you guys thought of some of the ideas that popped into my mind:


If eternal conscious torment in hell has always been the after-death fate of the wicked, why is the only threat/warning of hell made by Jesus in the rich man Lazarus parable --and that only to Israel? Shouldn't God have defined the sentence of hell back in Adam's day --and to all peoples and nations?
And speaking of threats/warnings of hell...John is said to have seen people burning in hell in Revelation. Why in the world isn't every word out of his mouth/in his letters a praise to God for saving him from such a fate...and a warning to the wicked to repent or suffer such a fate. I mean who among us can literally see people burning in hell and not warn our fellow man over and over and over and over again.
If you guys have any thoughts please share. Thanks.


My thoughts on this go back to the 'teaching' of Jesus Himself... that the teaching of the rich man /Lazarus.. is REAL and not a parable.. its not some story...a allegorical teaching of some type.. and you will find those beliefs here on this board.. One must realize that those in that teaching were real people....... Abraham, Lazarus, the rich man.. they were all 'real' people.. and not part of an allegorical story or parable... when a person 'realizes' the REALITY of that teaching.. It brings a whole different attitude and comprehension to what 'life after death' really means...and the consequenses of a life here on this earth without Salvation.

I have a question.. how does that piece of Scripture apply to Isreal alone?????? I'm kind of having a hard time grasping that statement..

elicohen
Jan 21st 2009, 09:59 PM
My thoughts on this go back to the 'teaching' of Jesus Himself... that the teaching of the rich man /Lazarus.. is REAL and not a parable.. its not some story...a allegorical teaching of some type.. and you will find those beliefs here on this board.. One must realize that those in that teaching were real people....... Abraham, Lazarus, the rich man.. they were all 'real' people.. and not part of an allegorical story or parable... when a person 'realizes' the REALITY of that teaching.. It brings a whole different attitude and comprehension to what 'life after death' really means...and the consequenses of a life here on this earth without Salvation.

I have a question.. how does that piece of Scripture apply to Isreal alone?????? I'm kind of having a hard time grasping that statement..

Because Jesus told his disciples not to go into any of the Samaritan towns or amongst any of the Gentiles [Matt. 10:5-6]. He told only to preach amongst the lost sheep of Israel. And regardless of whether the Lazarus rich man story is a parable or not, why such a late warning? Why wasn't Adam warned of eternal torment in hell? Or Abraham. Or Moses. Let me know what you think.

Walstib
Jan 21st 2009, 10:46 PM
Hi elicohen,

Welcome! I would encourage you to post an introduction here (http://bibleforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19).

And a reminder to make sure you have read the rules for this particular forum HERE (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=70064).

Hope you have a great time here.

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 21st 2009, 11:27 PM
Because Jesus told his disciples not to go into any of the Samaritan towns or amongst any of the Gentiles [Matt. 10:5-6]. He told only to preach amongst the lost sheep of Israel. And regardless of whether the Lazarus rich man story is a parable or not, why such a late warning? Why wasn't Adam warned of eternal torment in hell? Or Abraham. Or Moses. Let me know what you think.
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Hi and welcome to the Board.....

God warned Adam and Eve.. of the day they would eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil... they would 'die'... did He tell them the 'reality' of 'death' or dying? Its not recorded.. but He told them they would 'die'.. if they did eat..or even touch it... then you had the 'tempter' come along.. twisting what God spoke... 'hath God really said?" and 'surely' you will not die"... but the day you eat of it.. you shall be like god..knowing good and evil"

Now did He warn them of Eternal Torment? its not recorded in Genesies but there is a 'warning' of death..

elicohen
Jan 21st 2009, 11:56 PM
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Hi and welcome to the Board.....

God warned Adam and Eve.. of the day they would eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil... they would 'die'... did He tell them the 'reality' of 'death' or dying? Its not recorded.. but He told them they would 'die'.. if they did eat..or even touch it... then you had the 'tempter' come along.. twisting what God spoke... 'hath God really said?" and 'surely' you will not die"... but the day you eat of it.. you shall be like god..knowing good and evil"

Now did He warn them of Eternal Torment? its not recorded in Genesies but there is a 'warning' of death..

Thanks for the welcome. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would think with such a thing as suffering eternally in flames God would be like 'DON'T SIN OR YOU'RE GOING TO SUFFER FOREVER!' And not just to Adam but to Abraham Moses Joshua and so on and so on.

If you come up with anything else, let me know. Thanks and God bless.

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 22nd 2009, 12:43 AM
Thanks for the welcome. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would think with such a thing as suffering eternally in flames God would be like 'DON'T SIN OR YOU'RE GOING TO SUFFER FOREVER!' And not just to Adam but to Abraham Moses Joshua and so on and so on.

If you come up with anything else, let me know. Thanks and God bless.


Your welcome... You'll find alot of great people on here.. everybody at a different level of knowledge and growth in Christ.. some babes some mature... Personally He saved me over 14 years ago and I'm still learning today.. and I do not claim to have arrived .. but I will confess that I continue to press forward towards that High Calling of Christ Jesus...

the lake of fire or eternal fire was 'never' Created for man...

it was created for the Devil and his angels..

but man in his rebellious state.. unwilling to come to the Light but rather loving and abiding in darkness will find himself there at the end of all things.. That's Because God is not only Loving but He is Just and Holy and Righteous...

God has provided a Way though.. and that is thru His Son and Faith and Trust in what He accomplished on that Bloody Tree.. God's Mercy and Grace was manifested there.. and His Redemption is FOUND there... there is no other name in under HEAVEN .. thru which one can be saved.. God has Ordained Jesus the Christ to be the Judge of the secrets of mens, womens, and childrens hearts.. He is the Judge of the quick (born again) and the dead....

Our ways are not His ways.. and our thoughts are not His thoughts.. sometimes its hard to grasp some of these things... yea those 'deep' things of God.. which the Spirit reveals.. Resting in Him and Knowing you are Loved by the God of All Mercy and Grace.. and that He died in your place.. and has tasted death for you.. and others.. and that its because of Him you have Eternal Life.. should be very comforting and a place of rest...

I encourage you to rest in Him and let Him guide you and teach you.. His yoke is light and His burden not heavy at all....

reformedct
Jan 22nd 2009, 02:00 AM
well, since universalism is clearly heresy, i dont really know what the need to discuss it would be for? since everyone knows it is false

ProjectPeter
Jan 22nd 2009, 02:15 AM
Universal Reconcilliation is not a doctrine allowed here on this board guys. Please check the rules out and that makes things move a lot easier. :)

VerticalReality
Jan 22nd 2009, 02:44 AM
This thing started out bad from the jump. I'm going to close this thread. Everyone please take a look at the forum rules that prohibit about half of this thread.