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theBelovedDisciple
Jan 23rd 2009, 04:38 PM
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.

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Paul writes to us In Galations:

As Children of the Promise... have you experienced this in the past? do you experience this today? Those is Christ.. Born Again from Above....walking in the Spirit.. Justified by Faith in His Work on that bloody tree... being persecuted by those who are born after the flesh...


Could you consider 'being born after the flesh'... those who are religious but have never been Born Again? from Above by the Will of God..
were those Pharisees of Jesus's day considered to be children of the flesh? even though they 'considered' themelves 'children of Abraham.. but Jesus made it very clear who they were...

I'd love to hear your thoughts...

and thank you for the Dialogue

timmyb
Jan 23rd 2009, 04:54 PM
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul writes to us In Galations:

As Children of the Promise... have you experienced this in the past? do you experience this today? Those is Christ.. Born Again from Above....walking in the Spirit.. Justified by Faith in His Work on that bloody tree... being persecuted by those who are born after the flesh...


Could you consider 'being born after the flesh'... those who are religious but have never been Born Again? from Above by the Will of God..
were those Pharisees of Jesus's day considered to be children of the flesh? even though they 'considered' themelves 'children of Abraham.. but Jesus made it very clear who they were...

I'd love to hear your thoughts...

and thank you for the Dialogue

it's the principle of the grafting that we are included in the same promises the God gave to the nation of Israel... While only those in Israel who have accepted and follow Christ by faith will be the recipients of that promise given to Israel, we have been called children of the promise just like them and have everything they have because we have received him by faith

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 23rd 2009, 06:04 PM
it's the principle of the grafting that we are included in the same promises the God gave to the nation of Israel... While only those in Israel who have accepted and follow Christ by faith will be the recipients of that promise given to Israel, we have been called children of the promise just like them and have everything they have because we have received him by faith
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I agree... both Jews and Gentiles are 'recipient's of God's Promise's .. That was a mystery that Paul expounded on in His mission...and was 'his' mission... He took Christ's Messge to the heathen... You also saw that in the Book of Acts.. the Holy Ghost coming upon Gentiles as Peter preached.... You saw a foreshadowing of that when Jesus was tabernacling in the flesh... He ministered to everybody... Jews and Gentiles... much to the dislike of those who 'thought' they were the chosen ones of God. They actually persecuted Jesus and His Disciples for doing that.... He came to seek and save that which is Lost.. and He came to find the lost sheep of the House of Isreal... but did He minister to only Isreal? and Save only Isrealites? no.....it was revealed that they too can be 'co heirs' with Christ and 'heirs' of the Promises of God..

You 'saw' the Father in Jesus.. and it was the Father working thru Him... and in Jesus the Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile... and when you appear at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.. you will find Jews and Gentiles that have been Saved and Washed by the blood of the Lamb... all 'One' in Him.. His True Body...

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision


God is 'no respecter' of persons...

crossnote
Jan 24th 2009, 06:24 AM
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul writes to us In Galations:

As Children of the Promise... have you experienced this in the past? do you experience this today? Those is Christ.. Born Again from Above....walking in the Spirit.. Justified by Faith in His Work on that bloody tree... being persecuted by those who are born after the flesh...


Could you consider 'being born after the flesh'... those who are religious but have never been Born Again? from Above by the Will of God..
were those Pharisees of Jesus's day considered to be children of the flesh? even though they 'considered' themelves 'children of Abraham.. but Jesus made it very clear who they were...

I'd love to hear your thoughts...

and thank you for the Dialogue

I think the more specific difference between the two groups are those who trust and rely on God's promise holding Him to be true and those who believe by their own merit they are in some way deserving.
In this latter group pride remains because it confronts the law with "Yes I can' ...this pride leads to persecution (see Cain for ex.); wheras the first group has seen it's helplessness and cries out, "Yes He can. Lord forgive me a sinner".

Denny606
Jan 24th 2009, 12:47 PM
I think the more specific difference between the two groups are those who trust and rely on God's promise holding Him to be true and those who believe by their own merit they are in some way deserving.
In this latter group pride remains because it confronts the law with "Yes I can' ...this pride leads to persecution (see Cain for ex.); wheras the first group has seen it's helplessness and cries out, "Yes He can. Lord forgive me a sinner". He came to his own and they received him not but as many as did he gave them the power to become sons of God. Another Passage I am reminded of is...There is a seemeth right way and the end thereof is death.

Firstfruits
Jan 24th 2009, 02:36 PM
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul writes to us In Galations:

As Children of the Promise... have you experienced this in the past? do you experience this today? Those is Christ.. Born Again from Above....walking in the Spirit.. Justified by Faith in His Work on that bloody tree... being persecuted by those who are born after the flesh...


Could you consider 'being born after the flesh'... those who are religious but have never been Born Again? from Above by the Will of God..
were those Pharisees of Jesus's day considered to be children of the flesh? even though they 'considered' themelves 'children of Abraham.. but Jesus made it very clear who they were...

I'd love to hear your thoughts...

and thank you for the Dialogue

According to allegory he that is born of the flesh represents the law;

Gal 4:22 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=23) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=24) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

So he that is of the law (Hager), persecuted him that was born of the Spirit.

If we are still to follow the law, how do we therefore explain the following?

Gal 4:30 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=30) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=31) So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

God bless You!

Firstfruits

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 24th 2009, 03:49 PM
I think the more specific difference between the two groups are those who trust and rely on God's promise holding Him to be true and those who believe by their own merit they are in some way deserving.
In this latter group pride remains because it confronts the law with "Yes I can' ...this pride leads to persecution (see Cain for ex.); wheras the first group has seen it's helplessness and cries out, "Yes He can. Lord forgive me a sinner".
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Excellent analogy... I see what your saying.. I can see the 'pride' centered YES I can..chest thumping.. self rightoues... I would call this 'man centered'...man in his own power and pride.. 'yes' I can.... but with his/her flesh.. which is 'weak'... could and will fail... but then you have Jesus the Christ... in the Likeness of sinful flesh.. who did it perfectly.. and in HIM.. we walk and abide....

The other group... Its realization of Helplessness/lowliness/meekness/brokeness..... in praying YES HE CAN.... Lord forgive me a sinner... I will Believe, Trust, and have Faith in what you CAN DO... as a child would trust his/her parent...

Amen and amen.. excellent post..

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 24th 2009, 03:55 PM
Just wanted to compliment all on your posts.. I'm going to be out of town for about 3 days so will be back around the middle of next week.. Looking forward to continuing the discussion.... Have a Great weekend and remember God loves YOU!!