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reformedct
Jan 23rd 2009, 06:49 PM
Revelation 9

9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. [1] (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Revelation+9#f1) 2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. 3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. 6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.



it will be impossible for these people to die or commit suicide??

Fresco
Jan 23rd 2009, 09:31 PM
Revelation 9

9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. [1] (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Revelation+9#f1) 2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. 3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. 6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.



it will be impossible for these people to die or commit suicide??
Yes

It might be some nuclear war, everything wiped out and not a pole to hang yourself from. If thats what it says then I believe that.

Also remember the Bible sometimes makes what are local events sound much worse by people that interpret it to be globally.
For example, it could just happen to a certain area of the Middle East. But that doesnt mean the whole world will be affected

ilovemetal
Jan 23rd 2009, 09:34 PM
maybe they'll puff up like balls, so they won't have limbs that are useful. they'll roll around swollen from venom like beachballs in the wind.

but honestly, i don't know. revelation is to complicated for me.

RabbiKnife
Jan 23rd 2009, 09:36 PM
Maybe it's apocolyptic language that isn't supposed to be taken literally.

Fresco
Jan 23rd 2009, 09:53 PM
maybe they'll puff up like balls, so they won't have limbs that are useful. they'll roll around swollen from venom like beachballs in the wind.

but honestly, i don't know. revelation is to complicated for me.
So is Isaiah. I dont understand any of it!! :giveup:

Denny606
Jan 23rd 2009, 10:30 PM
Revelation s is not as complicated as some would want you to believe,It is simply a book of things past ,things present and things to come.When John was imprisoned on the Isle Of Patmos,Being in the Spirit on the Lord's Day He had things revealed to him to teach the 7 churches of Asia and he also was shown things that were not even to be written down.When John wrote the book of Revelations, at that time it was all Prophecy and living now in this present time we can look back and see a lot of it has been fulfilled and there is not a lot that hasn't,which leads me to believe the end is near,but as far as those people you are talking about, suicide will be impossible .They will pray for death and it will flee,They will cry for the rocks of the mountains to fall on them and hide them from the face of the One who lives forever{ paraphrasing here}these passages tell me that they are getting ready for their eternal punishment.

markedward
Jan 23rd 2009, 11:02 PM
it will be impossible for these people to die or commit suicide??Technically speaking, it doesn't say they're going to try to kill themselves... just that they would "seek death". There are a lot of people who are simply to afraid to kill themselves, but, hey, if they can take advantage of a situation in which they would die, well, they didn't technically themselves... Believe it or not, but people do think like that.

Yukerboy
Jan 24th 2009, 04:34 PM
Revelation 9

9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. [1] (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Revelation+9#f1) 2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. 3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. 6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.



it will be impossible for these people to die or commit suicide??


I never really thought about it, but yes it would seem that no one dies during that 5 month period in my opinion.

Lavrai
Jan 24th 2009, 06:05 PM
Hello.

I took a look at Strong's concordance to see if the Greek terms for "seek" and "death" could offer any clues... It appears the verses can be taken at face value...

Rev.9: 5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Rev.9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Rev.9: 10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

If the LORD sends these creatures out specifically to torment and not kill men for five months... it is likely people will try to kill themselves to escape the pain and suffering.

People do it today. Consider euthanasia. Consider the folks who lose their jobs and kill themselves... after they kill their wife and kids. Consider the young man who killed himself before an Internet audience via a Web cam...

If suicide is a viable and "easy" option for those living today, why wouldn't it be even more acceptable then? The world will be under great judgment -- no escaping.

Based on Revelation, many people in this time will still be fiercly resistant to Christ Jesus even though there will no denying HIS existence and power. They will consciously choose to flee HIM, although there will be no escaping HIS judgment.

For example, when the two witnesses die (as revealed in Rev. 11:7-10), the people will literally rejoice and send each other gifts. Like when 9/11 happened... some folks in the Middle East were celebrating.

I say that to say this, a great number of these passages in Revelation can be taken literally. Men will seek to die, but GOD won't allow death unless HE sends it.

ProjectPeter
Jan 24th 2009, 06:36 PM
Revelation 9

9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. [1] (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Revelation+9#f1) 2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. 3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. 6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.



it will be impossible for these people to die or commit suicide??
It does seem that way sure enough. ;)

Ixthus
Jan 24th 2009, 08:55 PM
Interesting post, I am going to look it up now.

forum lurker
Jan 26th 2009, 10:02 AM
In general, suicide rates in Middle East are very low which might seem a bit surprising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Maybe one reason for that is in Islam: suicide other than blowing oneself up in order to kill infidels is seen as a guarantee to end up in hell.

The Prophet (SAW) said, "Whoever intentionally swears falsely by a religion other than Islam, then he is what he has said, (e.g. if he says, 'If such thing is not true then I am a Jew,' he is really a Jew if he is a liar). And whoever commits suicide with a piece of iron, he will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell-fire."

The Prophet (SAW) said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he commited suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him."

The Prophet (SAW) said, "He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell-fire (forever), and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself, he shall keep stabbing himself in the Hell-fire (forever)."

daughter
Jan 26th 2009, 11:28 AM
It has often struck me as a description of hell. There's a line in a song by Bob Dylan, "can you imagine the darkness that will come from on high, when men will beg God to kill them, and they won't be able to die?"

On Friday I was travelling, and two people jumped in front of two seperate trains. It's terrible... they think they are in utter despair, but they still have this hope, that when they're dead the pain will stop.

Even before I was a Christian, I used to think, "what if it doesn't? Have they ever heard from a dead guy who said that jumping in front of a train made it better? Where's the logic in that?"

Imagine feeling the despair that a suicidal person feels, then take away the hope that death will change it. Wouldn't that be hell?

Joe King
Jan 26th 2009, 01:43 PM
It has often struck me as a description of hell. There's a line in a song by Bob Dylan, "can you imagine the darkness that will come from on high, when men will beg God to kill them, and they won't be able to die?"

On Friday I was travelling, and two people jumped in front of two seperate trains. It's terrible... they think they are in utter despair, but they still have this hope, that when they're dead the pain will stop.

Even before I was a Christian, I used to think, "what if it doesn't? Have they ever heard from a dead guy who said that jumping in front of a train made it better? Where's the logic in that?"

Imagine feeling the despair that a suicidal person feels, then take away the hope that death will change it. Wouldn't that be hell?


Truly sad. The enemy's plan is to make life so miserable here that you seek death, then you would realize that this was as good as you get. The enemy tries to wear you down with worldly things and keep your mind off of eternity and peace. There is only one source for peace and eternity and his name is Jesus Christ. I can only imagine the horror they may be feeling now and I pray that in their last seconds of existence, that they called out to the son of the living God.

Fresco
Jan 26th 2009, 02:20 PM
It has often struck me as a description of hell. There's a line in a song by Bob Dylan, "can you imagine the darkness that will come from on high, when men will beg God to kill them, and they won't be able to die?"

On Friday I was travelling, and two people jumped in front of two seperate trains. It's terrible... they think they are in utter despair, but they still have this hope, that when they're dead the pain will stop.

Even before I was a Christian, I used to think, "what if it doesn't? Have they ever heard from a dead guy who said that jumping in front of a train made it better? Where's the logic in that?"

Imagine feeling the despair that a suicidal person feels, then take away the hope that death will change it. Wouldn't that be hell?
I remember watching an A&E documentary on life after death, this woman had attempted suicide, but was unsuccessfull yet she said she'd seen the "other side" when she almost died. She was very adament that suicide didnt solve her problems, and she was still able to feel emotions while half-dead.

This coincides with scripture if you read King Saul's communication with Samuel through a psychic. Dont remember the exact verse, but you can look it up

9Marksfan
Jan 26th 2009, 06:15 PM
It has often struck me as a description of hell. There's a line in a song by Bob Dylan, "can you imagine the darkness that will come from on high, when men will beg God to kill them, and they won't be able to die?"

Which song is that? I have all his Christian CDs but don't recognise that lyric.

daughter
Jan 26th 2009, 07:31 PM
It's called "Precious Angel", from one of my favourite albums, slow train coming. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6s1rWE_082M&feature=related

9Marksfan
Jan 27th 2009, 09:20 AM
It's called "Precious Angel", from one of my favourite albums, slow train coming. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6s1rWE_082M&feature=related

MAN, how could I have missed that?!?! One of my faves too - with Mark Knopfler and Pick Withers as session musicians - BEFORE Dire Straits became really famous! Ole Bob knew talent when he saw it! What a great album Slow Train Coming is - must listen to it again. Did you know he almost always plays a few Christian songs at his concerts these days, esp Gotta Serve Somebody? I get the impression he's coming back to the LORD in his own "Dylan" way, which is fantastic news!