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Joyfulparousia
Jan 26th 2009, 02:26 PM
Daniel 2 describes the last kingdom of the impressive image with 3 distinct attributes that comprise the feet of iron and clay with ten toes.

1) iron - strength, the iron did not depict Rome in and of itself but the strength of Roman rule (Dan. 2:42). Rome was depicted as 2 legs (eastern and western empires). Though, I acknowledge that the Antichrist empire will have Roman attributes. Like Rev. 17:11 says, "of the seven [previous empires]"

2) clay - frailty; interestingly, I think Daniel 2:43 makes a reference to Genesis 6 about the Nephilim. Who are the "they" in verse 43 of Dan. 2? Demons? That could make the frail clay to be the "humans" that comprise the 10 nations controlled by Antichrist.

3) ten toes - ten kingdoms that comprise the antichirst beast kingdom. The same as the ten horns in Dan 7:7, 20, 24; Rev.13:1, 17:12-14, 16, 17


Daniel describes it was 3 horns (of the 10) as being:
1) "plucked out by the roots" Dan 7:8
2) "[the little horn] before which three fell" Dan 7:20
3) "subdued" by the little horn Dan 7:24

I believe these descriptions speak of Antichrist using the power base (political, military, and economic) of the 3 nations as the forefront of his military ambitions (Rev. 6:1- conquering and to conquer), allowing for the other 7 nations to fall into step behind him in lesser (yet substantial) roles.

Some understand the 3 subdued nations to be Magog, Tubal, Meshech mentioned in Ez. 38; with Gog being Antichrist himself, and Magog being the nation that Gog emerges from. All 10 horn-nations can be found and named in Ezekiel 38.

The prophetic fulfillment of this kingdom has yet to come.

vinsight4u8
Jan 26th 2009, 02:39 PM
Daniel shows us

three of the first

get plucked up


It never shows us to consider only ten horns at that time.

ross3421
Jan 27th 2009, 01:42 AM
1) iron - strength, the iron did not depict Rome in and of itself but the strength of Roman rule (Dan. 2:42). Rome was depicted as 2 legs (eastern and western empires). Though, I acknowledge that the Antichrist empire will have Roman attributes. Like Rev. 17:11 says, "of the seven [previous empires]"

2) clay - frailty; interestingly, I think Daniel 2:43 makes a reference to Genesis 6 about the Nephilim. Who are the "they" in verse 43 of Dan. 2? Demons? That could make the frail clay to be the "humans" that comprise the 10 nations controlled by Antichrist.

3) ten toes - ten kingdoms that comprise the antichirst beast kingdom. The same as the ten horns in Dan 7:7, 20, 24; Rev.13:1, 17:12-14, 16, 17

Miry Clay - The Future Demonic Kingdom

When one really dives into Dan. 2 we see a deeper prophectic understanding in relation to miry clay which is representitive of the future demonic kingdom which will prevade the earth prior to the coming of Christ.


Da 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided

Potter's Clay and Iron do not mix, but they will be divided from each other. Why can't they mix?

Side note, try at home to mix a clump of clay with iron it will neither mix nor stick to the metal.

Potter's clay is a reference to believers, God is the potter, we are the clay....

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

So there is a prophetic understanding in which Daniel is saying here. The fourth kingdom is of iron and clay as we shall see part "potter's and part "miry". The potter's clay is that part which shall not mix.

It is divided because under the fourth beast when a person of fierce countenance arises (little horn) people need to chose whom they will serve; God or mammon, Mark or no Mark, beast or Christ. The potter's clay represent those who will not mix with this system and fornicate with this whore nor receive his mark The potter's clay is the belivers which shall be on earth during this time. This clay cannot mix.

Now, let's go to the clay which shall mix......

Dan 2:41 but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Miry - full of, or having the nature of mire; swampy. covered with mire; muddy.

"miry clay" or better termed "mud" can mix and stick to iron. You cannot mold mud thus this is not molded by God.

So where does this "miry" clay come from? The pit.

Ps 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.

Their father is the devil and molded after him....

Now we see this "miry" clay mingle with the seed of men. Interesting. The understanding is that this is the demonic indwelling; miry clay from the pit + the seed of men.

Da 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves * with the seed of men:

When does Daniel state when this is to occur? In the future....

Da 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Who does this this iron miry clay mixture represent in this time? The ten horns of the Beast.

Re 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Re 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.




Daniel describes it was 3 horns (of the 10) as being:
1) "plucked out by the roots" Dan 7:8
2) "[the little horn] before which three fell" Dan 7:20
3) "subdued" by the little horn Dan 7:24

1. Are the "10" the roots? No, these 10 come up from the roots and are not the roots themselves. As we see in Nebuchadnezzar, the stump ie roots are the gold, silver and brass.

2. Does not Daniel mention 3 other beasts. Could it not be these 3 beast which fall giving only power to the forth. Also the "10" are intact all the way up to when Christ returns and there is no mention of a subtration of 3 to equal 7.

3. Can not the little horn of the forth beast subdue the other thrre beasts. Would seem to makes sence that this little horn goes to kill other beasts and not part of the forth beast in which he comes.


I believe these descriptions speak of Antichrist using the power base (political, military, and economic) of the 3 nations as the forefront of his military ambitions (Rev. 6:1- conquering and to conquer), allowing for the other 7 nations to fall into step behind him in lesser (yet substantial) roles.

Some understand the 3 subdued nations to be Magog, Tubal, Meshech mentioned in Ez. 38; with Gog being Antichrist himself, and Magog being the nation that Gog emerges from. All 10 horn-nations can be found and named in Ezekiel 38.

The feet and toes represent Israel however the feet are the miry portion and the toes become potters clay. Again the 10 toes are in tact until the return of Christ. They represent no country rather than the 10 tribes of Israel. The other 2 tribes are held within the little horn ie the second beast a total of 12 horns (144,000). Israel first aligns with the beast but then a remnant repents and does God's will and goes to destroy it.


The prophetic fulfillment of this kingdom has yet to come.

Yes.


Mark

Joyfulparousia
Jan 27th 2009, 02:14 PM
Miry Clay - The Future Demonic Kingdom

When one really dives into Dan. 2 we see a deeper prophectic understanding in relation to miry clay which is representitive of the future demonic kingdom which will prevade the earth prior to the coming of Christ.


Da 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided

Potter's Clay and Iron do not mix, but they will be divided from each other. Why can't they mix?

Side note, try at home to mix a clump of clay with iron it will neither mix nor stick to the metal.

Potter's clay is a reference to believers, God is the potter, we are the clay....

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

So there is a prophetic understanding in which Daniel is saying here. The fourth kingdom is of iron and clay as we shall see part "potter's and part "miry". The potter's clay is that part which shall not mix.

It is divided because under the fourth beast when a person of fierce countenance arises (little horn) people need to chose whom they will serve; God or mammon, Mark or no Mark, beast or Christ. The potter's clay represent those who will not mix with this system and fornicate with this whore nor receive his mark The potter's clay is the belivers which shall be on earth during this time. This clay cannot mix.

Now, let's go to the clay which shall mix......

Dan 2:41 but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Miry - full of, or having the nature of mire; swampy. covered with mire; muddy.

"miry clay" or better termed "mud" can mix and stick to iron. You cannot mold mud thus this is not molded by God.

So where does this "miry" clay come from? The pit.

Ps 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.

Their father is the devil and molded after him....

Now we see this "miry" clay mingle with the seed of men. Interesting. The understanding is that this is the demonic indwelling; miry clay from the pit + the seed of men.

Da 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves * with the seed of men:

When does Daniel state when this is to occur? In the future....

Da 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Who does this this iron miry clay mixture represent in this time? The ten horns of the Beast.


This is good. Very helpful.




1. Are the "10" the roots? No, these 10 come up from the roots and are not the roots themselves. As we see in Nebuchadnezzar, the stump ie roots are the gold, silver and brass.

I don't think I said they were roots. I said that the 3 horns are plucked up by the roots. The roots in are in the beast kingdom. Meaning, the little take direct control of the 3 horns.


2. Does not Daniel mention 3 other beasts. Could it not be these 3 beast which fall giving only power to the forth.

Possibly. Yet, if we cross reference this passage with the mention of the 10 horns in Rev. 13 and 17 we see that the first 3 beast empires mentioned by Daniel (Lion, Bear, Leopard) are past kings/kingdoms; the Beast kingdom is "of" these past kingdoms. They are like minded in their ambitions, dominion, intentions etc.

If the Lion represents Babylon, the Beast (Antichrist) kingdom with have many similarities to the Babylonian Empire. Think of the ferocity, power, and speed (depicted by the wings on the Lion) of the Lion Beast. In like manner, the Antichrist empire will possess some of the same attributes of Babylonian empire. We know that the Lion is speaking of a past empire because of the prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar who is "lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man's heart was given to it." (Dan 7:4)

Cross reference this with Daniel 4 and story of Nebuchadnezzar's judgment from the Lord for the 7 times.

Dan 4:15 Nevertheless leave the stump of its roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and bronze, in the grass of the field. And let it be wet with the dew of the heavens, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth.
Dan 4:16 Let his heart be changed from that of a man, and let him be given the heart of a beast. And let seven times pass over him.

Nebuchadnezzar literally crawled on the earth like a beast for 7 times.

Then,

Dan 4:36 ...my reason returned to me, and the glory of my kingdom, my majesty, and my splendor returned to me. And my counselors and my nobles sought to me. And I was reestablished in my kingdom, and excellent greatness was added to me.

So we know that this Lion beast depicts both Nebuchadnezzar (as the head of the empire) and the empire itself. And we know that Nebuchadnezzar is dead and won't be coming back any time soon, and it would be hard to make a case the Babylonian empire is still around considering the current Iraqi situation.

This is why John is told that the 8th head is of the 7. The 7 do not exist in the natural sense any more - their lives were prolonged, but certainly not until today. They were foreshadowing a coming empire that would be so incredibly more terrifying that all of them. More then a foreshadowing, but a warning, a prophecy, meant to be taken seriously and literally and every aspect of their kingdoms poured over vigorously. Only when we learn the distinctions and strengths of the previous 7 empires do we begin to under the scope in which the Antichrist will operate.


Also the "10" are intact all the way up to when Christ returns and there is no mention of a subtration of 3 to equal

I find it difficult to reconcile the 10 kings as pertaining to the Roman empire of the day. Therefore, I understand them to be future, while existent today, but only known with uncertainty. This is due to the redrawn lines of countries/boarders and the dispersion of people groups through increased travel since biblical times.


3. Can not the little horn of the forth beast subdue the other thrre beasts.

Yes, but as I mentioned earlier with Nebuchadnezzar, I believe the 3 horns to be distinct/future from the Lion, Bear, and Leopard beasts. I didn't have time to go into the Medo-Persian and Grecian empires.


The feet and toes represent Israel however the feet are the miry portion and the toes become potters clay. Again the 10 toes are in tact until the return of Christ. They represent no country rather than the 10 tribes of Israel. The other 2 tribes are held within the little horn ie the second beast a total of 12 horns (144,000).

But you just laid out that the miry clay mixed with iron was a "demonic" kingdom. :o

How you ascribe the number 10 the nation of Israel? I'll need another verse supports the number 10 being ascribed to the 12 tribes. And this thesis sets Israel as the 10 horns that Antichrist uses. I find this very difficult to reconcile. Especially using Ez 38 & 39 and the Genesis 10 table of nations. The 10 horns are clearly 10 Gentile nations who give alegience to Antichrist. Daniel 7 and Rev. 13 & 17 all say 10 horns, not 12, not 13.


Israel first aligns with the beast but then a remnant repents and does God's will and goes to destroy it.

....:confused Are you referring to kings who hate the Harlot and destory her? The harlot is not the beast, she rides on the beast. You'll have to provide more vereses that support the idea of the 144000 destorying the harlot and/or the Antichrist empire. Clearly, it is Jesus who does this during the Battle of Armageddon.

ross3421
Jan 29th 2009, 02:44 AM
We know that the Lion is speaking of a past empire because of the prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar who is "lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man's heart was given to it." (Dan 7:4)

Nebuchadnezzar is never referenced as a lion but yes he and his kingdom is a parrallel of a future kingdom to come upon the earth whereby there will be a man as a head which will be cut down but rise again among his roots.

Da 7:4 The Lion which becomes the Lamb (Rev 12)

The beast which was

The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings:

is not

I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked,

and yet is

and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Daniel 7 is not speaking of Nebuchadnezzar that is why there are called beasts with no name as this kingdom has no name but of the devil.


Cross reference this with Daniel 4 and story of Nebuchadnezzar's judgment from the Lord for the 7 times.

7 plaques.



So we know that this Lion beast depicts both Nebuchadnezzar (as the head of the empire) and the empire itself. And we know that Nebuchadnezzar is dead and won't be coming back any time soon, and it would be hard to make a case the Babylonian empire is still around considering the current Iraqi situation.

This is why John is told that the 8th head is of the 7. The 7 do not exist in the natural sense any more - their lives were prolonged, but certainly not until today. They were foreshadowing a coming empire that would be so incredibly more terrifying that all of them. More then a foreshadowing, but a warning, a prophecy, meant to be taken seriously and literally and every aspect of their kingdoms poured over vigorously. Only when we learn the distinctions and strengths of the previous 7 empires do we begin to under the scope in which the Antichrist will operate.

I believe Dan 7 shows the beasts coming up together and not seperatly. This would also be supported by Rev 13. Again the lion, bear, leopard are future kings of the earth which will reign with the fourth beast (also seen in the first four seals) however this fourth beast will devour the others whereby a little horn will rule supreme. The 7 heads are seen in these beasts whereby the 8th will be the little horn which is of the seven.

This will be a future kingdom to rise upon the earth after a period of much chaos. The four beasts will be the kings of the earth whereby the 12 horns tribes of Israel will reside. The 7 heads represent gentiles which will reside inside the city walls. The little horn will be the king of kings.

Lion - 1
Bear - 2
Leopard - 3,4,5,6
fourth beast - 7th head, 10 horns, 8th head (little horn)

Likewise we see this same parrallel with the 7 candelsticks and Christ being the 8th.


But you just laid out that the miry clay mixed with iron was a "demonic" kingdom. :o

A divided kingdom part potter part demonic. So I should not say "demonic" but part demonic. Thanks.


How you ascribe the number 10 the nation of Israel? I'll need another verse supports the number 10 being ascribed to the 12 tribes. And this thesis sets Israel as the 10 horns that Antichrist uses. I find this very difficult to reconcile. Especially using Ez 38 & 39 and the Genesis 10 table of nations. The 10 horns are clearly 10 Gentile nations who give alegience to Antichrist. Daniel 7 and Rev. 13 & 17 all say 10 horns, not 12, not 13.

The key here is to see the parrallel in God's kingdom. Each have the following numbers 4, 7, 12. Satan has mastered a counterfeit kingdom to deceive the masses in believing he is God. Both have their followers of gentiles which receive their mark and the battle over Israel.

4 beasts
7 heads/mountains - 7 angels/churches
12 horns - 12 tribes

There is a total of 12 horns not 10. What we see in chapter 13 is a picture of the father and son. The son (of perdition) being the second beast, a lamb with two horns.

Re 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Re 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.


The divison of 10 and 2 fits the divison of the two houses of Israel. A we know the lamb of God came from the line of house of David.


....:confused Are you referring to kings who hate the Harlot and destory her? The harlot is not the beast, she rides on the beast. You'll have to provide more vereses that support the idea of the 144000 destorying the harlot and/or the Antichrist empire. Clearly, it is Jesus who does this during the Battle of Armageddon.

The woman is the city and the beast with the 10 horns which rides her. The 10 horns of the beast have a change of heart and go to destroy the harlot which it rides. Judah will also fight

Zec 14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

Babylon is destroyed just prior to Christ's return not at Armaggedon. There are two seperate events, the destruction of Babylon and Armaggedon. The 144,000 destroy the harlot and burn it with fire. The upon Christ's return the inhabinants are forced into a valley outside the city whereby God finishes destroys them.


Mark

vinsight4u8
Jan 29th 2009, 02:52 AM
Daniel 7 - beasts - diverse one from another


"The first was..."

v 5
"...a second..."



Both Daniel 2 and 7 deal with 10 kings - as ten toes - ten horns - so they are they about the very same kingdoms.

vinsight4u8
Jan 29th 2009, 02:56 AM
Daniel 7:24 shows that the little horn will be diverse from the first number of horns.

"diverse from the first"


not just ten - but there is a first set of horns

gjolive
Jan 29th 2009, 10:18 PM
Daniel 7 - beasts - diverse one from another


"The first was..."

v 5
"...a second..."



Both Daniel 2 and 7 deal with 10 kings - as ten toes - ten horns - so they are they about the very same kingdoms.

Possibly these 10 kings are nations that used to be a part of the Roman Empire that will once again make out part of the last 4th empire. How many member countries in the European Union used to be a (geographic) part of the Roman Empire?

JaneA
Jan 30th 2009, 03:02 AM
I may be way off base. But could the three horns be America, Mexico, and Canada. Our government if planing on combining these 3 in the not so distant future to form the North american union, with one currency for all. I can certainly see the current administration doing this. Probably after the economy has a complete collapse.:(

vinsight4u8
Jan 30th 2009, 01:00 PM
Possibly these 10 kings are nations that used to be a part of the Roman Empire that will once again make out part of the last 4th empire. How many member countries in the European Union used to be a (geographic) part of the Roman Empire?


I agree that they will come out of the former Roman Empire area. I see it as the western section as Daniel 2 speaks of how the kingdom divides and then mentions the ten toes later.

There are 15 euro countries (as far as I know) - 2 are in the isles.
Daniel 7 shows us 13 horns and the little horn plucks up three of them.
The little horn then rules with the remaining ten - that do willingly what Rev. 17 shows.

vinsight4u8
Jan 30th 2009, 01:14 PM
I may be way off base. But could the three horns be America, Mexico, and Canada. Our government if planing on combining these 3 in the not so distant future to form the North american union, with one currency for all. I can certainly see the current administration doing this. Probably after the economy has a complete collapse.:(


Rev. 17 shows that there will be ten horns that do what?

Rev. 17:6
"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore and shall make her desolate and naked and burn her with fire."
Why?
"For God hath put in their hearts to fufil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast..."

-------So
we must watch for a tally of 13 kings to come out of the former Roman Empire area first.
Daniel 7 speaks of 3 that get plucked up - then also a group of 10.

The ten aren't in the group to get plucked up - for they give their kingdom to the beast.


-----------Daniel 7
v 24
"And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise; and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first , and he shall subdue three kings."

So?
We have the ten that williingly give their kingdom to the beast - plus - the three that must be subdued.

13 - in all
plus the little horn

Daniel 2
v 40
"And the fourth kingdom shall be strong..."
v 41
"...the kingdom shall be divided..."
//into east and west

The western portion of the empire continued on.
but
then it fell
and then the prophecy goes into how in the days of the ten horns "these kings" God will set up His kingdom.

----------
Daniel 7 shows us that the little horn is diverse from the other 13 horns (the first set of horns). The wicked king will come from an area different than the 13 kings.
Yet - still the Roman Empire area - but it will be the section that was known as Babylon.


Europe will link up with Iraq

precepts
Jan 31st 2009, 02:42 AM
The ten toes/ten horns are ten kings not ten nations.



Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me , Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell in the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have reeived no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
The ten toes/ten horns are kings not nations. The beast is the 8th king/emperor of Rome, Titus Vespianus Flavius, who started his own dynasty with his two sons. The false prophet was the 11th king/emperor, Nerva, who plucked up Titus and his two sons, the 9th and 10th kings/emperors of Rome. It was Titus that destroyed the temple in 70ad.

Joyfulparousia
Feb 1st 2009, 11:41 AM
The ten toes/ten horns are ten kings not ten nations.

The ten toes/ten horns are kings not nations. The beast is the 8th king/emperor of Rome, Titus Vespianus Flavius, who started his own dynasty with his two sons. The false prophet was the 11th king/emperor, Nerva, who plucked up Titus and his two sons, the 9th and 10th kings/emperors of Rome. It was Titus that destroyed the temple in 70ad.

When was there a mortal head wound? When was there a worldwide worship of Titus? When was there a talking image of the beast that commanded worship under pain of death? When was there a false prophet who called down fire from heaven.

DurbanDude
Feb 2nd 2009, 07:59 AM
Daniel 2 describes the last kingdom of the impressive image with 3 distinct attributes that comprise the feet of iron and clay with ten toes.

1) iron - strength, the iron did not depict Rome in and of itself but the strength of Roman rule (Dan. 2:42). Rome was depicted as 2 legs (eastern and western empires). Though, I acknowledge that the Antichrist empire will have Roman attributes. Like Rev. 17:11 says, "of the seven [previous empires]"

2) clay - frailty; interestingly, I think Daniel 2:43 makes a reference to Genesis 6 about the Nephilim. Who are the "they" in verse 43 of Dan. 2? Demons? That could make the frail clay to be the "humans" that comprise the 10 nations controlled by Antichrist.

3) ten toes - ten kingdoms that comprise the antichirst beast kingdom. The same as the ten horns in Dan 7:7, 20, 24; Rev.13:1, 17:12-14, 16, 17


Daniel describes it was 3 horns (of the 10) as being:
1) "plucked out by the roots" Dan 7:8
2) "[the little horn] before which three fell" Dan 7:20
3) "subdued" by the little horn Dan 7:24

I believe these descriptions speak of Antichrist using the power base (political, military, and economic) of the 3 nations as the forefront of his military ambitions (Rev. 6:1- conquering and to conquer), allowing for the other 7 nations to fall into step behind him in lesser (yet substantial) roles.

Some understand the 3 subdued nations to be Magog, Tubal, Meshech mentioned in Ez. 38; with Gog being Antichrist himself, and Magog being the nation that Gog emerges from. All 10 horn-nations can be found and named in Ezekiel 38.

The prophetic fulfillment of this kingdom has yet to come.


The world will be trampled on, and broken up first, then the ten horns will appear. Horns are normally divisions of the entire empire, so it seems that the bible is predicting a deliberate policy of world-wide devastation, and then the setting up of ten regions of earth to give the antichrist power.

I think that these 3 regions of earth will be EU, USA, South America, I may be wrong.

ross3421
Feb 2nd 2009, 11:34 PM
The world will be trampled on, and broken up first, then the ten horns will appear. Horns are normally divisions of the entire empire, so it seems that the bible is predicting a deliberate policy of world-wide devastation, and then the setting up of ten regions of earth to give the antichrist power.

Yes, yes, yes......... Out of chaos this order will arise. This chaos wil actually mirror the plaques and appear as the end of the world and a need for a savior to return.

I see matt 24:7 as this destruction.


I think that these 3 regions of earth will be EU, USA, South America, I may be wrong.

There will be no city to rival Babylon, babylon will be the epicenter of the earth at this time. The EU US and South America will have been destroyed. Note Babylon is the midst of a wilderness.....

Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Re 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Mark

Earendel
Mar 14th 2009, 03:10 AM
Daniel 2 describes the last kingdom of the impressive image with 3 distinct attributes that comprise the feet of iron and clay with ten toes.

1) iron - strength, the iron did not depict Rome in and of itself but the strength of Roman rule (Dan. 2:42). Rome was depicted as 2 legs (eastern and western empires). Though, I acknowledge that the Antichrist empire will have Roman attributes. Like Rev. 17:11 says, "of the seven [previous empires]"

2) clay - frailty; interestingly, I think Daniel 2:43 makes a reference to Genesis 6 about the Nephilim. Who are the "they" in verse 43 of Dan. 2? Demons? That could make the frail clay to be the "humans" that comprise the 10 nations controlled by Antichrist.

3) ten toes - ten kingdoms that comprise the antichirst beast kingdom. The same as the ten horns in Dan 7:7, 20, 24; Rev.13:1, 17:12-14, 16, 17


Daniel describes it was 3 horns (of the 10) as being:
1) "plucked out by the roots" Dan 7:8
2) "[the little horn] before which three fell" Dan 7:20
3) "subdued" by the little horn Dan 7:24

I believe these descriptions speak of Antichrist using the power base (political, military, and economic) of the 3 nations as the forefront of his military ambitions (Rev. 6:1- conquering and to conquer), allowing for the other 7 nations to fall into step behind him in lesser (yet substantial) roles.

Some understand the 3 subdued nations to be Magog, Tubal, Meshech mentioned in Ez. 38; with Gog being Antichrist himself, and Magog being the nation that Gog emerges from. All 10 horn-nations can be found and named in Ezekiel 38.

The prophetic fulfillment of this kingdom has yet to come.

Here is the mystery of the 4th beast of Daniel.

It must first be clearly understood that the 3rd beast was the Roman Empire of the Caesars, and that the 4th beast followed immediately thereafter.


The 10 horns are 10 kingdoms or reigns . There shall be ten reigns upon the earth from the time of the 3rd beast. These are not all one kingdom, but are 10 kingdoms or 10 reigns that make up the 4th beast.

Throughout the time allotted to the Gentiles, known as the time of the Gentiles, there would arise many kingdoms or reigns. Each of the 10 horns or reigns are different and diverse one from the other. It was once said of England, during Queen Victoria’s reign, that the sun never set upon the British Empire. France had a kingdom as did Spain, as did Germany, as well as Nederland, the Ottoman empire, the reign of Salaheddin/Persian, Prussian, and so forth. These all presently exist in the time of the end.

Now understand the mystery of the 3 horns which fell and was supplanted by the little horn(Antichrist.)

3 horns shall fall and become one, that is to say those 3 horns or 3 nations shall become one nation. Today, the only place I see that happening is in North America.

England, France, and Spain are represented in North America, and all three of these nations have had a kindom reign part of the 10 horns of Daniels 4th Beast.

Canada (French/English), United States (English) and Mexico (Spanish).
These three countries shall fall to the Antichrist (President of the US?) and become one in a North American Union with a common currency - with one leader (I assume The President of the US)

Consider what is written about the Antichrist, “who is able to make war with him”

Only one nation on Earth fits that description and that is the United States. Never since there has been a nation has there been a military power as powerful as that of the US. The US remains the world’s only remaining superpower…and never has there been another like it. Could the beast rising up out of the sea…mean - (rising up out of, and coming from across the ocean?)

Earendel
Mar 14th 2009, 06:31 PM
There is one more point I want to make concerning the days that are approaching us...

If it is true, that we are at the doorstep to the times of Jacob's trouble, that the Great Tribulation will soon be upon us, then we must sound the alarm to the others to get ready...because the enemy is at the gate, and the trumpet is about to sound!

I feel the Lord gathering up His elect in this hour as a Shepherd divides the sheep from the goats, and the day of His coming is fast approaching. I believe that I have been given understanding into events that are to shortly come to pass.

One may ask, what is our calling as Christians and how do we refer to ourselves?
…with deepest humility and contriteness of spirit I want to say how grateful we are that the Lord has saved us and redeemed us from the world; He has taken away our sins and washed them so they are remembered no more. Our names are written down in heaven...our light is seen in the world like a city on a hill that cannot be hid. Lord Jesus, help us…help me that I will stand out in the crowd as one of yours. Take the world out of me, and let be holy as you are holy. Amen