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View Full Version : Help with Ephesians 6:1-4 and Colossians 3:20-21



TexAg06
Jan 27th 2009, 06:53 AM
I don't know where to start, and I'll try to keep this short (reading back over this, looks like I failed haha). I have a friend that is 19 years old and currently in college. She lives at home instead of on campus to save money and works part time. Well, her parents are VERY controlling, what I would call over controlling. All family members are believers and go to church regularly. Well, I have done TONS of research online lately over Ephesians 6:1-4 and Colossians 3:20-21. I feel I have a good grasp through research and prayer, but one thing really eludes me, and I can't seem to find a good answer online.

When Paul uses the term "children" at the beginning of each of those verses, what age does that apply to? The Greek word used is tekna (sp?), which means only offspring. The reason I ask is that her parents are controlling, and every time she tries do speak up, the parents quote these two passages and tell her to obey them because it pleases the Lord. I have been operating under the impression that Paul was mainly addressing that to little children, whereas my friend is an adult. But, I have no scriptural basis for that, just my own thoughts as well as some friends I have talked to. I also have become quite familiar with the "honor vs obey" concept, so we're good there.

Can anyone shed some light on how long her parents are able to quote that verse as a reason for her to do what they ask?

Thanks in advance to anyone that replies, and I apologize for rambling. I'll keep checking this link and answer any questions that might arise, this situation is complicated and I did a poor job of explaining it. Thank you again.

shepherdsword
Jan 27th 2009, 07:03 AM
She lives at home instead of on campus to save money and works part time.

I think this is an important point. Since she is living in their house on their dime she should give them all the godly respect and submission due them.
If she find their rules unbearable she can do what any adult can do...move out and pay her own bills.



I have been operating under the impression that Paul was mainly addressing that to little children, whereas my friend is an adult..

I would expect anyone who lives under my roof to follow the guidelines I laid down..no matter what their age is. Just my thoughts

TexAg06
Jan 27th 2009, 07:05 AM
I think this is an important point. Since she is living in their house on their dime she should give them all the godly respect and submission due them.
If she find their rules unbearable she can do what any adult can do...move out and pay her own bills.




I would expect anyone who lives under my roof to follow the guidelines I laid down..no matter what their age is. Just my thoughts

I agree with your first point. The problem is, she has mentioned moving out and they tell her that she needs to live with them, and to obey that request because of those verses, if that makes sense. Basically they won't let her move out, they tell her she needs to live with them until she gets married, and that she has to do that, otherwise she is rebellious and disobedient.

CommanderRobey
Jan 27th 2009, 07:53 AM
I read somewhere years ago that in Bible times, a son or daughter was considered a child until the age of thirty.

Will do some research.

Albert Barnes, in his commentary on Isaiah 65:20 speaks of a boy who reaches the age of 100 and yet still a child.

Moorish records that a child of 20 years of age could join the army. (Note: Moorish still calls this one a child even though he is fighting in the army.)

CommanderRobey
Jan 27th 2009, 08:05 AM
I agree with your first point. The problem is, she has mentioned moving out and they tell her that she needs to live with them, and to obey that request because of those verses, if that makes sense. Basically they won't let her move out, they tell her she needs to live with them until she gets married, and that she has to do that, otherwise she is rebellious and disobedient.

My, my, times have changed... or have they? In Bible times, a woman remained in her parents house until after she was married. And in some cases, for years after marriage the woman remained in the parent's house. (Rachel and Leah stayed with Laban for many years after marriage... Leah the most)

th1bill
Jan 27th 2009, 01:43 PM
... CommanderRobie is riht on target with the biblical age of children, one does not, biblically loose their childhood until they turn thirty. And this will anger most of the young adults but it is pleasing to God for her to obey her parents. I would guess that both of you would do well to do the study on submission.
Below are the verses from the Naves Topical Bible. This is not an exhaustive study but it is a very god start.

Submission
To authority, Jesus an example of
Mat_26:39; Mat_26:42; Mar_14:36; Luk_22:42; Heb_5:8
Of Paul
1Co_16:7

Obedience
General references
Gen_18:19; Exo_19:5; Exo_20:6; Deu_5:10; Exo_24:7; Jos_24:24; Num_9:23; Num_14:24; Jos_14:6-14; Jos_22:2; 1Ki_3:14; 2Ki_18:6; 2Ki_21:8; Neh_1:5; Psa_1:2; Psa_18:44; Psa_25:10; Psa_99:7; Psa_103:17-18; Psa_103:20-21; Psa_111:10; Psa_112:1; Psa_119:2; Psa_119:4-6; Psa_119:8; Psa_119:10; Psa_119:15-16; Psa_119:22; Psa_119:30-31; Psa_119:33; Psa_119:44-45; Psa_119:55-56; Psa_119:59-60; Psa_119:72; Psa_119:77; Psa_119:87; Psa_119:97; Psa_119:100-102; Psa_119:104-106; Psa_119:109; Psa_119:112; Psa_119:129; Psa_119:166-168; Psa_143:10; Pro_1:33; Pro_19:16; Pro_28:7; Isa_1:19; Jer_7:23; Eze_18:19; Eze_33:14-16; Dan_7:27; Mat_5:19; Mat_6:24; Mat_9:9; Mar_2:14; Mat_12:50; Mat_13:23; Mat_13:8; Mar_4:20; Luk_8:15; Mat_25:20-23; Mar_3:35; Luk_1:6; Luk_6:46-48; Luk_8:21; Luk_11:2; Luk_11:28; Luk_12:37-38; Joh_8:28; Joh_8:51; Joh_9:4; Joh_10:27; Joh_14:15; Joh_14:23; Joh_14:31; Joh_15:10; Joh_15:14; Joh_15:16; Act_4:19; Act_5:29; Rom_6:17; Eph_2:10; Phi_2:12; Heb_10:7; Jam_2:10-12; 1Pe_1:2; 1Pe_1:14; 1Jo_2:3-6; 1Jo_2:17; 1Jo_3:22; 1Jo_3:24; 1Jo_5:2-3; 2Jo_1:6; 2Jo_1:9; Rev_12:17; Rev_22:7; Rev_22:14
See Blessing, Contingent upon Obedience
Enjoined
General references
Gen_17:9; Exo_23:22; Lev_19:36-37; Lev_19:19; Lev_20:8; Lev_20:22; Lev_22:31; Lev_26:3-13; Num_15:38-40; Deut 4:1-40; Deut 5:1-33; Deut 6:1-25; Deu_8:1-6; Deu_8:11-14; Deu_8:16-20; Deu_10:12-13; Deu_11:1-3; Deu_11:8-9; Deut 11:13-28; Deu_11:32; Deu_13:4; Deu_26:16-18; Deu_27:1-10; Deut 28:1-68; Deu_32:46; Jos_22:5; Jos_23:6-7; Jos_24:14-15; 1Sa_12:24; 1Sa_15:22; 2Ki_17:37-38; 1Ch_16:15; 1Ch_28:9-10; 1Ch_28:20; Ezr_7:10; Ezr_7:23; Psa_76:11; Ecc_12:13; Jer_26:13; Jer_38:20; Mal_4:4; Mat_9:9; Mar_2:14; Mat_19:17; Mat_19:29; Joh_12:26; Joh_13:17; Joh_14:15; Joh_14:21; Gal_3:10; Gal_3:12; Gal_5:3; Eph_4:1; Eph_4:17; Eph_6:6-8; Phi_2:12; 1Ti_6:14; 1Ti_6:18; Heb_13:16; Jam_1:22-25
See Commandments; Duty; Law
Exemplified
General references
Gen_6:9; Num_9:23; Num_14:24; Jos_14:6-14; 2Ki_18:6; 2Ki_20:3; 2Ch_24:16; 2Ch_31:20-21; Ezr_7:10; Neh_7:2; Job_1:8; Psa_17:3; Psa_26:3-6; Psa_99:7; Psa_101:2-3; Psa_106:30-31; Psa_119:30-31; Psa_119:40; Psa_119:44-45; Psa_119:47-48; Psa_119:51; Psa_119:54-56; Psa_119:59-60; Psa_119:67; Psa_119:69; Psa_119:100-102; Psa_119:105-106; Psa_119:110; Psa_119:112; Psa_119:166-168; Act_23:1; Act_24:16; Rom_6:17; 2Co_1:12; 2Co_6:3-4; Phi_3:7-14; 1Th_1:9; 1Th_2:10; 2Ti_1:3; Rev_2:19; Rev_3:4; Rev_14:4-5
See Blessing, Contingent upon Obedience; Commandments
Filial
See Children
Instances of:
Noah
Gen_6:9; Gen_6:22; Gen_7:5; Heb_11:7
Abraham
Gen_12:1-4; Gen_17:23; Gen_21:4; Gen_22:12; Neh_9:8; Act_7:3-8; Heb_11:8-17; Jam_2:21
Bethuel and Laban
Gen_24:50
Jacob
Gen_35:1; Gen_35:7
Moses
Num_27:12-22; Heb_3:2-3
Moses and Aaron
Exo_7:6; Exo_40:16; Exo_40:21; Exo_40:23; Exo_40:32
Israelites
Exo_12:28; Exo_32:25-29; Exo_39:42-43; Num_9:20-21; Deu_33:9; Jdg_2:7; Psa_99:7
Under the preaching of Haggai
Hag_1:12
Caleb
Deu_1:36
Joshua
Jos_10:40; Jos_11:15
Reubenites
Jos_22:2-3
Gideon
Jdg_6:25-28
David
1Sa_18:14; 1Sa_25:28; 1Ki_11:6; 1Ki_11:34; 1Ki_15:5; 2Ch_29:2; Act_13:22
Elisha
1Ki_19:19-21
Hezekiah
2Ki_18:6; 2Ch_31:20-21; Isa_38:3
Josiah
2Ki_22:2; 2Ki_23:24-25
Asa
2Ch_14:2
Jehoshaphat
2Ch_17:3-6; 2Ch_20:32; 2Ch_22:9
Jehoiada
2Ch_24:16
Uzziah
2Ch_26:4-5
Jotham
2Ch_27:2
Levites
2Ch_29:34
Cyrus
2Ch_36:22-23; Ezr_1:1-4
Ezra
Ezr_7:10
Hanani
Neh_7:2
Job
Job_1:8
Daniel
Dan_6:10
Three Hebrews
Dan 3
Jonah
Jon_3:3
Ninevites
Jon_3:5-10
Zacharias
Luk_1:6
Simeon
Luk_2:25
Joseph
Mat_1:24; Mat_2:14
Mary
Luk_1:38
Jesus
Mat_3:15; Mat_26:39; Mat_26:42; Luk_22:42; Joh_4:32; Joh_4:34; Joh_5:30; Joh_12:49-50; Joh_14:31; Joh_17:4; Heb_3:2
John the Baptist
Mat_3:15
John and James
Mar_1:19-20
Matthew
Mat_9:9
Simon and Andrew
Mar_1:16-18
Levi
Mar_2:14
Nathanael
Joh_1:47
The rich young man
Mat_19:20; Mar_10:19-20; Luk_18:21
The disciples
Joh_17:6
Cornelius
Act_10:2
Paul
Act_23:1; Act_26:4-5; 2Ti_1:3
Obedience to civil law
See Citizen

Walstib
Jan 27th 2009, 03:15 PM
Hi TexAg06,

Welcome! I am sure you will find some great stuff here. I understood you just fine. Making it through all the references Bill gave you will take allot more time than it did to write the post. ;)

Please take some time to post an introduction here (http://bibleforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19)

I would agree that submission is a very honorable thing but I would add no passage should ever be used to blackmail someone. Gently with all long suffering is how I would say this and many other situations should be approached. Then it seems like your concerns are more with the approach of the parents already. :)

This has been one of my favorite verses for a long time now. A great way for us to approach people. The parents should still have the attitude of serving the child rather than "lording" their authority over them. Me thinks.

A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench, Till He sends forth justice to victory; And in His name Gentiles will trust."(Mat 12:20-21 NKJV)

Peace,
Joe

CommanderRobey
Jan 27th 2009, 06:20 PM
Great advice, Walstib!

I think back to the first commandment with promise...

Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

I would say the daughter needs to sit down with her parents and discuss her reasons for wanting to move. It may be her parents are over-bearing, or it may be her parents are loving and see the girl is not mature enough to be from under their care.

Without knowing the family, it is hard to counsel effectively in such a situation. But the long and the short of it, as long as the child is under the roof of the parent, the child should live by the rules set forth in the family.

One thing that will show maturity of the child is the reason the child is wanting to get married. Is it because she loves the man unconditionally? Is it lust? Or is it just to get out from under the thumb of her parents.

If it is one of the latter two reasons, the child is not mature enough for marriage.

TexAg06
Jan 27th 2009, 06:48 PM
Thank you all very much for the replies, you have all been very helpful. I apologize for not being able to go more in depth, there is not enough space on this website to convey all details of the situation. But from the little amount of detail I have given, the advice has been very good. Thank you all for the help, and please feel free to say anything else you deem pertinent.

TexAg06
Jan 27th 2009, 10:14 PM
Great advice, Walstib!

I think back to the first commandment with promise...

Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

I would say the daughter needs to sit down with her parents and discuss her reasons for wanting to move. It may be her parents are over-bearing, or it may be her parents are loving and see the girl is not mature enough to be from under their care.

Without knowing the family, it is hard to counsel effectively in such a situation. But the long and the short of it, as long as the child is under the roof of the parent, the child should live by the rules set forth in the family.

One thing that will show maturity of the child is the reason the child is wanting to get married. Is it because she loves the man unconditionally? Is it lust? Or is it just to get out from under the thumb of her parents.

If it is one of the latter two reasons, the child is not mature enough for marriage.


This is a very interesting point you brought up, and actually the reason I asked this question. This girl is my friend, but more than that is my ex-girlfriend. We dated for about 10 months and very much felt like God was preparing us to be together forever. Not to get married at this instant, but at some point we both felt like that was the case. However, her parents have very, very strict (and in my opinion, overly harsh) rules that slowly got worse an worse as they saw us becoming closer. They very much like me as a person, but don't like the idea of losing their youngest daughter. The rules eventually became bad enough that they nearly prohibited all contact between us outside of one day/week, which makes carrying on a relationship very difficult, if not impossible.

So that brings me back to the million dollar question. On one hand, we genuinely (through MUCH prayer and meditation) feel that we are supposed to be together, but her parents do not want that. So if we choose to be together and follow what we are convinced of is God's will then we disobey her parents, which isn't pleasing to God. But on the other hand, if we obey her parents (which is what happened), then I feel like we would be not following the plan God has lined out. So my question is, what takes precedence in that case? Obeying the strict (and frankly controlling) rules of her parents, or following what we feel is God's will?

Any help at all would be appreciated.

For the record, her parents do not disapprove of the relationship. They see that we pray together, do bible studies, go to church together, and bring each other closer to God. They have a plan mapped out they want their daughter to follow, regardless of her heart's wants and desires.

CommanderRobey
Jan 27th 2009, 10:39 PM
If it is God's will that you and this girl be together for the rest of your lives, He will bring it to pass. If it is His will, He will let her parents know and prepare their hearts for that time.

I am reminded of the story of the first couple on Earth... Adam and Eve. When God created Eve for Adam, He did not tell Adam to go looking for her. No, He brought the woman to the man.

If God has brought this girl to you for the purpose of being your helpmate, it will come to pass. Let Him do the work, you just continue to live for Him in front of her and her parents.

Benaiah
Jan 28th 2009, 04:01 AM
In Scripture the "age of majority" (adulthood) was 20 and above.

20 and above was the mandated age for males required to pay the half shekel tax imposed by the Lord.


Exo 30:14 "Everyone included among those who are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering to the LORD.20 and above was also the age set for military service.


Num 1:20 Now the children of Reuben, Israel's oldest son, their genealogies by their families, by their fathers' house, according to the number of names, every male individually, from twenty years old and above, all who were able to go to war:

And the Lord held responsible all those of Israel who were twenty and above for rebelling against him. As all that were twenty and above were sentenced to die in the wilderness and not enter the promised land.


Num 14:29 'The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above.

Teke
Jan 28th 2009, 09:21 PM
This is a very interesting point you brought up, and actually the reason I asked this question. This girl is my friend, but more than that is my ex-girlfriend. We dated for about 10 months and very much felt like God was preparing us to be together forever. Not to get married at this instant, but at some point we both felt like that was the case. However, her parents have very, very strict (and in my opinion, overly harsh) rules that slowly got worse an worse as they saw us becoming closer. They very much like me as a person, but don't like the idea of losing their youngest daughter. The rules eventually became bad enough that they nearly prohibited all contact between us outside of one day/week, which makes carrying on a relationship very difficult, if not impossible.

So that brings me back to the million dollar question. On one hand, we genuinely (through MUCH prayer and meditation) feel that we are supposed to be together, but her parents do not want that. So if we choose to be together and follow what we are convinced of is God's will then we disobey her parents, which isn't pleasing to God. But on the other hand, if we obey her parents (which is what happened), then I feel like we would be not following the plan God has lined out. So my question is, what takes precedence in that case? Obeying the strict (and frankly controlling) rules of her parents, or following what we feel is God's will?

Any help at all would be appreciated.

For the record, her parents do not disapprove of the relationship. They see that we pray together, do bible studies, go to church together, and bring each other closer to God. They have a plan mapped out they want their daughter to follow, regardless of her heart's wants and desires.

Jacob put up with much more than this from the parent of the woman he wanted. But he hung in there and got her!