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thebaker
Jan 28th 2009, 06:05 AM
I am taking a course in College about Human Sexuality, and I was reading about the different views on Birth Control. I was wondering how Christians of our generation (current college age students) viewed birth control?

Athanasius
Jan 28th 2009, 07:25 AM
As long as it's not abortive, I don't think I have a problem with it.

Revinius
Jan 28th 2009, 02:42 PM
I find "what if's" basically tell God he isnt in control.

catholicdude
Jan 28th 2009, 10:00 PM
Birth Control takes away the pro-creative act of s*x. God created s*x to make more people to love Him. It also depends on why it's used, there are a couple other reasons that are non-s*xual that I guess are ok, but if it's used to prevent pregnancy I think of it as a sin.

Pax,
Zach

P.S. I'm not in college, but I didn't think you would mind.

Athanasius
Jan 28th 2009, 10:22 PM
Birth Control takes away the pro-creative act of s*x. God created s*x to make more people to love Him. It also depends on why it's used, there are a couple other reasons that are non-s*xual that I guess are ok, but if it's used to prevent pregnancy I think of it as a sin.

Well here's my take... Scripturally, unless it's abortive, you'd have a hard time showing it's a sin.

catholicdude
Jan 28th 2009, 11:15 PM
Xel, do you post just to contradict me? ;)

There isn't a specific passage that says "thou shalt not use birth control," but we can use scripture and reason to com to a conclusion:

1) God does everything that He does for a reason
2) God created our bodies the way they are for a reason
3) S*x creates babies, God made it this way (by no accident)
4) Therefore, God wanted s*x to create babies
5) Therefore, God doesn't want to people to have s*x while unable to have children because it goes against the way He wanted it to be.
6) Things that God doesn't want to happen are bad
7) Therefore, birth control is bad

I also wanted to say in my earlier post that while someone is using birth control for reasons other than birth control, that someone is called to chastity to avoid falling into sin.

Pax,
Zach

Athanasius
Jan 28th 2009, 11:50 PM
Xel, do you post just to contradict me? ;)

There isn't a specific passage that says "thou shalt not use birth control," but we can use scripture and reason to com to a conclusion:

1) God does everything that He does for a reason
2) God created our bodies the way they are for a reason
3) S*x creates babies, God made it this way (by no accident)
4) Therefore, God wanted s*x to create babies
5) Therefore, God doesn't want to people to have s*x while unable to have children because it goes against the way He wanted it to be.
6) Things that God doesn't want to happen are bad
7) Therefore, birth control is bad

I also wanted to say in my earlier post that while someone is using birth control for reasons other than birth control, that someone is called to chastity to avoid falling into sin.

And guess what... Sex creates babies, even while on birth control. Contrarily, sex doesn't create babies, even when not on birth control (*cough...). What if we took your logic and applied it like this...

1) God does everything that He does for a reason
2) God allowed for the Fall and entrance of sin and death
3) People get sick...

You can see where I'm taking this, right? People get sick, use medicine, get better... Go against what God allowed for a certain reason? Falls flat.

In relation to what you've said...

4) God didn't want sex to create babies, God designed sex as the means of procreation
5) Non-sequitur... This isn't derived from the previous four propositions
6) Not necessarily
7) Not shown

You know a major reason why Africa is burning? Missionaries are hated birth control.

SnakeWesker
Jan 29th 2009, 12:29 AM
I don't like birth control. I feel that if God wanted us to have a kid, we would. Plenty of people "do it" while actually trying to get pregnant, and can't. It's God's will that they don't (at least not right away), and it's His will when we do.

Of course, you can argue this for days, I know. I mean I remember reading about many Church leaders not liking heart transplants when they first started doing those, since if God wanted a heart to fail, it would. So I guess you can look at it either way. But I don't know, I'm just not convinced that birth control is a good thing.

Athanasius
Jan 29th 2009, 01:48 AM
I don't like birth control. I feel that if God wanted us to have a kid, we would. Plenty of people "do it" while actually trying to get pregnant, and can't. It's God's will that they don't (at least not right away), and it's His will when we do.

Of course, you can argue this for days, I know. I mean I remember reading about many Church leaders not liking heart transplants when they first started doing those, since if God wanted a heart to fail, it would. So I guess you can look at it either way. But I don't know, I'm just not convinced that birth control is a good thing.

Which is fine, for you. That's a long way from declaring it sin.

the inside out
Jan 29th 2009, 03:59 AM
I was on it for a little while but I put on too much weight because of it, so I got rid of it.

Taking birth control is not trusting God. It's following your own will and not His, and basically denying that his plan for you is good.

But there are other reasons why people take b.c. pills.

Athanasius
Jan 29th 2009, 04:24 AM
Taking birth control is not trusting God. It's following your own will and not His, and basically denying that his plan for you is good.

And how is it different when you take medication for a sickness?

the inside out
Jan 29th 2009, 04:41 AM
And how is it different when you take medication for a sickness?
Medication is used throughout the scriptures. Oil and Wine, Balm of Gilead, etc. It's not in God's will that you should suffer, and God has provided me with Excedrin Migrane when I have a headache. He's also provided me with Zyrtec to relieve me from my allergies. Though they are expensive, they are a blessing from God.

If you're suffering from Cancer, then God can provide you with access to chemotherapy. God doesn't just do crazy miracles, but he also blesses men and women with the wisdom and the knowledge to be physicians and chemists and pharmacists so that they can be a blessing to you.

Pregnancy is not an sickness or a burden, but it is a gift and a command from God. That's the difference. God said, "Go forth and multiply." By taking birth control you're saying, "No!" or "I'll do it on my own time."

Athanasius
Jan 29th 2009, 04:44 AM
Medication is used throughout the scriptures. Oil and Wine, Balm of Gilead, etc. It's not in God's will that you should suffer, and God has provided me with Excedrin Migrane when I have a headache. He's also provided me with Zyrtec to relieve me from my allergies. Though they are expensive, they are a blessing from God.

If you're suffering from Cancer, then God can provide you with access to chemotherapy. God doesn't just do crazy miracles, but he also blesses men and women with the wisdom and the knowledge to be physicians and chemists and pharmacists so that they can be a blessing to you.

Pregnancy is not an sickness or a burden, but it is a gift and a command from God. That's the difference. God said, "Go forth and multiply." By taking birth control you're saying, "No!" or "I'll do it on my own time."

If anyone would like to show it from scripture...

thebaker
Jan 29th 2009, 07:16 AM
If you are married, which would obviously include sex, and wanted to wait until you had the means (financially) to take care of a child, could it be considered a blessing to be provided with birth control? Someone said in a previous post how medication is a blessing, couldn't birth control, in some cases, be considered a blessing?

And by birth control, I mean any means of contraception. Or even things like a vasectomy, which could bring up probably even more conversations.

the inside out
Jan 29th 2009, 03:16 PM
If you are married, which would obviously include sex, and wanted to wait until you had the means (financially) to take care of a child, could it be considered a blessing to be provided with birth control? Someone said in a previous post how medication is a blessing, couldn't birth control, in some cases, be considered a blessing?

And by birth control, I mean any means of contraception. Or even things like a vasectomy, which could bring up probably even more conversations.
No. Birth control contradicts a direct command from God. God's not going to provide you with something to faciliate your fear of lack of finances. Medical procedures that stop the production of life are not blessings, they're sin. Anything that puts you in a position that allows you to direct the course of your life is something to stay away from. God won't be put in the backseat.

Birth Control says that God's timing is not perfect and that he is not a provider.

SnakeWesker
Jan 29th 2009, 10:45 PM
I agree. No matter how strapped for time or cash you think you are, if God wants you to have a kid, and you do, He will provide for him/her.

Lizzard
Feb 1st 2009, 05:28 PM
I think that God's will will happen regardless of what you want and you can do nothing, including birth control to stop a pregnancy. I have a friend who got pregnant 4 times while on various forms of birth control. A lot of people use birth control for things other than pregnancy prevention. It is also used to control cramps, excessive bleeding and PMS. :hmm:
Just my 2 cents!

Friend of Jesus
Feb 1st 2009, 09:20 PM
I don't think we should add to the list of things that God says are wrong.

God says a lot in regard to abortion- aka: "Do not murder" and "Do to others as you would have them do to you"

God says nothing however about 'non-killing' contraception so therfore there is nothing wrong with it.

catholicdude
Feb 3rd 2009, 11:07 PM
And guess what... Sex creates babies, even while on birth control. Contrarily, sex doesn't create babies, even when not on birth control (*cough...).

Yes, it is possible to get pregnant while on birth control, but the fact remains that the main reason for using it is to prevent children. I would liken it to masturbation, you would ususally get the pleasure out of the act, without the side effect. I'm sure most of the people here would agree that masturbation is a sin.


What if we took your logic and applied it like this...

1) God does everything that He does for a reason
2) God allowed for the Fall and entrance of sin and death
3) People get sick...

You can see where I'm taking this, right? People get sick, use medicine, get better... Go against what God allowed for a certain reason? Falls flat.

This is actually not the same thing at all. God gave us free will, it was our choice to sin. Before the fall, no one could get sick, we freely caused the fall therefore sickness is our fault. By your logic God wants us to be sick, that is absurd.




4) God didn't want sex to create babies, God designed sex as the means of procreation

when you design something, you design it the way you do because you want it to work that way, I'm not saying I know how God thinks because I don't, but it's a pretty logical statement.

catholicdude
Feb 3rd 2009, 11:22 PM
I don't think we should add to the list of things that God says are wrong.

God says a lot in regard to abortion- aka: "Do not murder" and "Do to others as you would have them do to you"

God says nothing however about 'non-killing' contraception so therfore there is nothing wrong with it.

It depends on when you consider life begins, because if you think it begins at contraception, like I do, then it would be murder. The pill, along with closing off the cervix, makes it impossible for a fertilized egg to attatch to the wall of the uterus and gets shed with the rest of the lining.

Just curious, Xel' what do you think about abortion?

Athanasius
Feb 4th 2009, 04:22 AM
Just curious, Xel' what do you think about abortion?

See below :


As long as it's not abortive, I don't think I have a problem with it.

Athanasius
Feb 4th 2009, 04:48 AM
Yes, it is possible to get pregnant while on birth control, but the fact remains that the main reason for using it is to prevent children. I would liken it to masturbation, you would ususally get the pleasure out of the act, without the side effect. I'm sure most of the people here would agree that masturbation is a sin.

I would agree masturbation is a sin, but not for the same reason you believe birth control is a sin. Does everyone use birth control to avoid children? No, they don't.



This is actually not the same thing at all. God gave us free will, it was our choice to sin. Before the fall, no one could get sick, we freely caused the fall therefore sickness is our fault. By your logic God wants us to be sick, that is absurd.

Red herring - please address my propositional set.



when you design something, you design it the way you do because you want it to work that way, I'm not saying I know how God thinks because I don't, but it's a pretty logical statement.

Okay, and?

Friend of Jesus
Feb 4th 2009, 07:00 PM
It depends on when you consider life begins, because if you think it begins at contraception, like I do, then it would be murder. The pill, along with closing off the cervix, makes it impossible for a fertilized egg to attatch to the wall of the uterus and gets shed with the rest of the lining.

I believe life begins at conception, and I don't agree with the pill and the like. Contraception that doesn't cause harm (such as condoms) are fine as far as what the word says.

In Dust and Ashes
Feb 4th 2009, 10:08 PM
There isn't a specific passage that says "thou shalt not use birth control," but we can use scripture and reason to com to a conclusion:

1) God does everything that He does for a reason
2) God created our bodies the way they are for a reason
3) S*x creates babies, God made it this way (by no accident)
4) Therefore, God wanted s*x to create babies
5) Therefore, God doesn't want to people to have s*x while unable to have children because it goes against the way He wanted it to be.
6) Things that God doesn't want to happen are bad
7) Therefore, birth control is bad


I don't think the Songs of Solomon were written to share the pleasures of procreating and having kids.

I have a physical condition that makes it very hard (or nearly impossible, depending on the severity) to have babies. So by your standards, I would have no business having sex with my husband.

catholicdude
Feb 8th 2009, 05:24 AM
Does everyone use birth control to avoid children? No, they don't.

I understand this, I agreed using the pill for reasons not related to contraception are permissable (post #4). But, a person using the pill for reasons other than contraception should not have sex, seeing as they are taking the procreative act out of sex. Now, let me address the "what ifs." I guess the biggest what if is, what if a person absolutely needs birthcontrol for such and such a reason. I would say, God has called this person to a life of chastity, there is nothing wrong with being chaste.




Red herring - please address my propositional set.

I did by saying that your argument does not hold up because sickness was humanity's own fault, not of Divine origin like the way our bodies work.


I believe life begins at conception, and I don't agree with the pill and the like. Contraception that doesn't cause harm (such as condoms) are fine as far as what the word says.

I don't quite understand you. You're ok with contraception excluding the pill and the like? I've never heard this before. When you use any method of contraception, you are taking God out of the equasion to njoy sex without having to accept the "consequences." You're trying to avoid Gods command to "Increase and multiply, and fill the earth." (Genesis 9:1). God loves children very much, and He wants more people to be put on this earth to love Him. The condom does the same thing as the pill, avoid pregnancy, the condom just never lets the egg be fertilized.


I don't think the Songs of Solomon were written to share the pleasures of procreating and having kids.

I have a physical condition that makes it very hard (or nearly impossible, depending on the severity) to have babies. So by your standards, I would have no business having sex with my husband.

That's a different situation, you didn't chose to have this condition, and I'm sure you wish you wouldn't have it, but it's ok because you were created with this. Contracption is a choice to not have children.

Pax,
Zach

Athanasius
Feb 8th 2009, 05:36 AM
I understand this, I agreed using the pill for reasons not related to contraception are permissable (post #4). But, a person using the pill for reasons other than contraception should not have sex, seeing as they are taking the procreative act out of sex. Now, let me address the "what ifs." I guess the biggest what if is, what if a person absolutely needs birthcontrol for such and such a reason. I would say, God has called this person to a life of chastity, there is nothing wrong with being chaste.

As I've already said. There's nothing scriptural linking sex with purely procreational aims (in fact there's an entire book devoted to it's pleasure). Claiming that a person needs birth control for "such and such" a reason is really God calling them to chastity is also completely naive. Sex is apparently the only thing left untouched by sin and corruption...



I did by saying that your argument does not hold up because sickness was humanity's own fault, not of Divine origin like the way our bodies work.

It absolutely holds. God allowed free will, ergo, God allowed for the results of either choice (to follow or disobey). If you don't like my argument, better throw out yours.



That's a different situation, you didn't chose to have this condition, and I'm sure you wish you wouldn't have it, but it's ok because you were created with this. Contracption is a choice to not have children.

Right, God made her that way. You're completely ducking what's being said.

In Dust and Ashes
Feb 8th 2009, 07:30 PM
I'm sure you wish you wouldn't have it

nah, I never wanted kids of my own. I believe that we have to take responsibility for the ones already on this earth and help them out before bringing more into this world. I think we've accomplished the "be fruitful and multiply" part. It's time now to own up to the fact that a huge percentage of children wont live very long because we're letting them starve to death.

Dez-troy-a
Feb 10th 2009, 05:42 PM
nah, I never wanted kids of my own. I believe that we have to take responsibility for the ones already on this earth and help them out before bringing more into this world. I think we've accomplished the "be fruitful and multiply" part. It's time now to own up to the fact that a huge percentage of children wont live very long because we're letting them starve to death.

I am quite a young christian so please go easy on me If what I say isnt very "biblical". Dust and Ashes is so right

If memory serves me right, God gave man free will, and they said to him that he should take dominion over all creation! Sex, and as a matter of fact the conception process is part of creation. So if we are given choices to do things in life, why are decisions to precreate or not wrong?

"Be fruitfull.....and multiply..." That sounds more like a blessing coming from a pretty happy person than a commandment! "Do not kill!" is a commandment and therefore birth control forms that kill a foetus is wrong!

If God wants you to have a baby, YOU WILL HAVE IT even if you use contraception. Mary didnt even sleep with Joseph but since Gods plans are unstoppable, she conceived! Have we forgotten the unimaginable capability God has?

I have no idea how sex is supposed to feel like (sounds great though) but I think God made sex as one of the many things that holds a couple together...that is why sex should be with ones wife or husband onlly (through out their life). Personally, when my time comes to marry, I think I will use contraception for a while until I totally settle.

Dez-boy

In Dust and Ashes
Feb 10th 2009, 06:09 PM
If memory serves me right, God gave man free will

That's debatable ;)

But I agree with what you say. I also like your point about "be fruitful and multiply" being a blessing instead of a command. I don't think I've heard that one before.

RoseClown
Feb 16th 2009, 06:37 PM
It's going against God's will for your life if you don't ask Him. Basically? There are great points on either side. The way I feel about it is to pray, ask God what he thinks about it in your life. A young couple in this economy may not be the best idea for having children right away. Everyone should bring God into the decision, since that way you are not just leaving it up to biology, but to God's choice.

With that said? Abortive control I do have a problem with. At that point you are pregnant, God has already given you that child. Also with pills I am a little iffy just do to my lack of trust in concern to overusing medication.

For me personally, I will probably use it once I am married and need it, if it is God's will. Mostly because I want to adopt, and I am concerned over how big a family can get if I adopt two kids then end up having six or seven of my own. I also have the genetics for twins (my dad was one) so that adds an extra incentive to be careful. My choice on the matter will also depend on what my Husband thinks about it.

technotask
Feb 20th 2009, 09:09 AM
Its just a precaution.... i don't think its against christian values and ethics....

findingmyfaith
Feb 25th 2009, 11:20 AM
what if a person absolutely needs birthcontrol for such and such a reason. I would say, God has called this person to a life of chastity, there is nothing wrong with being chaste.

There is nothing wrong with being chaste. But there is nothing wrong with having sex with your husband. What if one of you were infertile? Or too old? Or whatever reason that you could no longer pro-create; should you not have sex? I think sex is about making babies, but it is also pleasureable for a reason and that closeness brings couples together (why it should only occur within marriage).

God calls us to do many things in his name, and children/being pregnant could stop you doing those things... talk to God, then you'll know for sure!

xox

JesusIsLord82
Mar 1st 2009, 05:14 PM
I am taking a course in College about Human Sexuality, and I was reading about the different views on Birth Control. I was wondering how Christians of our generation (current college age students) viewed birth control?


I am totally against any form of BirthControl because the pill has been known to mess with a woman's hormonal system as well as the shots that do the same thing. As for other forms of Birth Control, they just don't seem natural to me at all. The one form that I do agree with however is what my cousin calls Natural Family Planning. She was taught in her Church that NFP is a natural and safe way to know when a woman is able to become pregnant or not.

iluvyeshua
Mar 2nd 2009, 01:38 AM
Actually there are other reason people take birth control too, though. Dermatologists really do prescribe it to help with acne and for cases like really random periods, doctors prescribe it. I'm actually on that teenage stuff called yaz for Both reasons, my periods would come out of nowhere (sometimes like 3 times a month or not more 4 whole months) and for acne, I'm on accutane. That's really strong medicine which the government checks you everymonth to be sure you're on birth control because itd deform a baby if you were to get pregnant, which I'm not sexually active anyways. Thoseare just some alternative uses for the pill...

catholicdude
Mar 2nd 2009, 11:30 PM
There is nothing wrong with being chaste. But there is nothing wrong with having sex with your husband. What if one of you were infertile? Or too old? Or whatever reason that you could no longer pro-create; should you not have sex? I think sex is about making babies, but it is also pleasureable for a reason and that closeness brings couples together (why it should only occur within marriage).

God calls us to do many things in his name, and children/being pregnant could stop you doing those things... talk to God, then you'll know for sure!

xox

Please inform me on when I, or anyone, said that having sex with your husband/wife was wrong.

Ok, whether someone is infertile or too old has nothing to do with the choice to prevent children with birth control. If someone is infertile or too old, let them have sex as much as they want, they didn't choose to have what ever condition they have (I'm not saying that married couples shouldn't have sex as much as they want, but married couples that are using contraception for whatever reason, should not have sex at all), but, if they use the pill and the like in order to prevent kids, they are taking control away from God and giving it to themselves.

I don't have any problems with your last statement.

Saying that being pregnant or having children could stop you from doing God's plan for you implies that you know what God wants you to do, which is obviously not true. You may have a feeling that God wants you to do something, but you can never know for sure. From what you said, it seems like you think that if God gave you a child which interupts what you think God has planned for you, that God is wrong in giving the child to you because it keeps you from doing His plan for you. I know this is something you don't believe but that's what your statement said to me. Do you think that if you had a child that it wouldn't be in God's plan for you to have a child? When you use contraception, you put faith in men over God to do what is best for you.

1 Corinthians 2:5

"5 That your faith might not stand on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God."

Have faith in God's power, and He'll give you what He knows you need.

Pax,
Zach

Athanasius
Mar 3rd 2009, 11:06 PM
Ok, whether someone is infertile or too old has nothing to do with the choice to prevent children with birth control. If someone is infertile or too old, let them have sex as much as they want, they didn't choose to have what ever condition they have (I'm not saying that married couples shouldn't have sex as much as they want, but married couples that are using contraception for whatever reason, should not have sex at all), but, if they use the pill and the like in order to prevent kids, they are taking control away from God and giving it to themselves.

Why don't you just come right out and say that these people are infertile (I'm speaking about people who should be of healthy child bearing age) because God intervened and made it that way? It would make your position that much more consistent. That makes me wonder, however. If they are infertile and having sex to enjoy sex with no recourse for procreation... :rolleyes:

catholicdude
Mar 8th 2009, 04:56 AM
1) Why don't you just come right out and say that these people are infertile (I'm speaking about people who should be of healthy child bearing age) because God intervened and made it that way? It would make your position that much more consistent. 2) That makes me wonder, however. If they are infertile and having sex to enjoy sex with no recourse for procreation... :rolleyes:

1) These people are infertile because God intervened and made it that way. This statement doesn't change anything, I don't entirely understand why you wanted me to say this...

2) Sex is the complete, selfless giving of oneself to their spouse (or is supposed to be anyway). The "consequences", for lack of a better word, of this giving are pleasure and children. If the latter simply cannot happen, there is nothing wrong with having sex to enjoy it.

Pax,
Zach

Athanasius
Mar 8th 2009, 07:33 AM
1) These people are infertile because God intervened and made it that way. This statement doesn't change anything, I don't entirely understand why you wanted me to say this...

That's a little more consistent. Now you're also saying it's alright to have sex even if you're past child bearing age and the result of which would be purely for relational, spiritual and... recreational (to use the wrong word) means?

Gauntlet
Mar 10th 2009, 05:08 PM
Xel, do you post just to contradict me? ;)

There isn't a specific passage that says "thou shalt not use birth control," but we can use scripture and reason to com to a conclusion:

1) God does everything that He does for a reason
2) God created our bodies the way they are for a reason
3) S*x creates babies, God made it this way (by no accident)
4) Therefore, God wanted s*x to create babies
5) Therefore, God doesn't want to people to have s*x while unable to have children because it goes against the way He wanted it to be.
6) Things that God doesn't want to happen are bad
7) Therefore, birth control is bad

I also wanted to say in my earlier post that while someone is using birth control for reasons other than birth control, that someone is called to chastity to avoid falling into sin.

Pax,
Zach

WHat do you think about people in Africa using contraception to protect themselves from AIDS? People will have sex whether Christians like it or not, so having established that as a given, the least you can do is protect youself from deadly STDs. The Vatican is against condom-use even in situations where condom-use prevents the spread of horrible disease. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how the Protestant religions feel about using condom-use to prevent pregnancy and the spread of STDs.

AIDS is bad, but it happens anyway.

EaglesWINGS911
Mar 10th 2009, 05:31 PM
Biblically I dont think you can declare it a universal sin, it's a matter of personal choice. Not everyone who is on birth control uses it to prevent births. Furthermore, I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it teaches against the use of it. Personally, I don't have a problem with it at all.

Revinius
Mar 11th 2009, 02:08 AM
Biblically I dont think you can declare it a universal sin, it's a matter of personal choice. Not everyone who is on birth control uses it to prevent births. Furthermore, I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it teaches against the use of it. Personally, I don't have a problem with it at all.

Just because the bible doesnt teach on something that wasnt around then doesnt condone that thing. Just a thought.

Lordistruth
Mar 13th 2009, 06:28 PM
:D
No. Birth control contradicts a direct command from God. God's not going to provide you with something to faciliate your fear of lack of finances. Medical procedures that stop the production of life are not blessings, they're sin. Anything that puts you in a position that allows you to direct the course of your life is something to stay away from. God won't be put in the backseat.

Birth Control says that God's timing is not perfect and that he is not a provider.

Is this a serious statement?

and Xel, I think you should give catholicdude a little more respect than you do in your posts. They come off very condescending and rude and it seems that he is just here to have intelligent debate. ;)

*Hope*
Mar 14th 2009, 02:05 AM
I don't understand people who are "against birth control" and yet advocate "Natural Family Planning". This is contradictory. NFP prevents a birth just like a condom prevents a birth. The intent is the same, only the method is different....

apothanein kerdos
Mar 14th 2009, 04:47 AM
I don't understand people who are "against birth control" and yet advocate "Natural Family Planning". This is contradictory. NFP prevents a birth just like a condom prevents a birth. The intent is the same, only the method is different....

This is the most logical statement on the issue.

cross crusader
Mar 15th 2009, 02:47 AM
i dont believe birth control is a sin, but in the same token if you arent planning on having children and you are not married you shoulnt be having sex. although Paul seems to indicate sex between married couple is a spiritual tool as well not only to procreate. the whole do not deny yourselves except for praying an fasting so that you are not tempted or led into sinning, (paraphasing) But the best birth control is the Word of God, maybe we should start prescribing that.

Gauntlet
Mar 15th 2009, 04:29 AM
We started proscribing that a long time ago, did we not? :bible:

Revinius
Mar 15th 2009, 12:47 PM
We started proscribing that a long time ago, did we not? :bible:

Many seem to have lept off that path...

Gauntlet
Mar 15th 2009, 02:38 PM
Many seem to have lept off that path...

Indeed, which is why we must be steadfast and unflagging in our prescription of the Word.

:bible::bible::bible:

The world needs it now more than ever.

Revinius
Mar 16th 2009, 12:59 AM
Indeed, which is why we must be steadfast and unflagging in our prescription of the Word.

:bible::bible::bible:

The world needs it now more than ever.

Indubitably....

catholicdude
Mar 17th 2009, 05:18 PM
That's a little more consistent. Now you're also saying it's alright to have sex even if you're past child bearing age and the result of which would be purely for relational, spiritual and... recreational (to use the wrong word) means?

Before I answer, let me try to get the question right. So, the person in question had sex to enjoy it (I'm going to assume they were using birth control as well) during that time in their life that they could have had children. Now, the person can no longer have children and still has sex. Is it wrong? Is that whole thing what you're asking.


WHat do you think about people in Africa using contraception to protect themselves from AIDS? People will have sex whether Christians like it or not, so having established that as a given, the least you can do is protect youself from deadly STDs. The Vatican is against condom-use even in situations where condom-use prevents the spread of horrible disease. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how the Protestant religions feel about using condom-use to prevent pregnancy and the spread of STDs.

AIDS is bad, but it happens anyway.

I'm sorry Gauntlet, morality doesn't get put on hold because someone wants to have sex without getting a disease. The people in Africa have two "moral" (for lack of a better word) choices regarding sex. 1) Be completely chaste or 2) Get AIDS. Paul believes it's beter to be chaste anyway:

1 Corinthians 7:32-33 "32 I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; 33 but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife"

This doesn't outright say, chastity is so much better, but, you are more concerned about doing God's will when you don't have to take care of a wife and kids.

Just because it's going to happen anyway doesn't me we don't have to do the right thing, what you said is like saying "crime is going to happen anyway, let's just get rid of police." That is just...not right.

Pax,
Zach

Athanasius
Mar 17th 2009, 06:22 PM
Before I answer, let me try to get the question right. So, the person in question had sex to enjoy it (I'm going to assume they were using birth control as well) during that time in their life that they could have had children. Now, the person can no longer have children and still has sex. Is it wrong? Is that whole thing what you're asking.

No, they aren't using birth control, they're just having sex (but of child bearing age). Also use the same question but apply it to a couple who are past child bearing age.



I'm sorry Gauntlet, morality doesn't get put on hold because someone wants to have sex without getting a disease. The people in Africa have two "moral" (for lack of a better word) choices regarding sex. 1) Be completely chaste or 2) Get AIDS. Paul believes it's beter to be chaste anyway:

1 Corinthians 7:32-33 "32 I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; 33 but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife"

This doesn't outright say, chastity is so much better, but, you are more concerned about doing God's will when you don't have to take care of a wife and kids.

Just because it's going to happen anyway doesn't me we don't have to do the right thing, what you said is like saying "crime is going to happen anyway, let's just get rid of police." That is just...not right.

That verse actually doesn't speak on chastity at all, you're misapplying it.

I do agree, people shouldn't have sex before they are married. Your response, however, is cruel. It is, after all, that very mindset that is a major contributing factor to the AIDS epidemic in Africa. A mindset developed and carried over by Christian missionaries. Using condoms? Not putting morality on hold.