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View Full Version : How many times did Daniel watch the little horn? Daniel 7



vinsight4u8
Jan 29th 2009, 01:52 PM
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Let me know what you find.

vinsight4u8
Jan 29th 2009, 01:53 PM
If we stick to the Bible - Daniel wrote that 3 of the first get plucked up.
So carefully read and read and read and read the chapter till you discover that Daniel did not see ten horns first.

How many horns did he watch and then saw the little horn speaking?

markedward
Jan 29th 2009, 02:24 PM
You started three threads in the space of eight minutes... and at least two of them talk about the same topic. Why not just make one thread and touch on all points instead of breaking it apart?

vinsight4u8
Jan 29th 2009, 02:49 PM
You started three threads in the space of eight minutes... and at least two of them talk about the same topic. Why not just make one thread and touch on all points instead of breaking it apart?


Because I'm trying to get people to stop and really do some thinking about what actually happens in Daniel 7.
----------
We have to realize that Daniel saw more than one vision in Daniel 7.
Daniel saw the little horn two times.
Okay, why is this so vital to know?
---------because the little horn plucks up three of the first horns seen.

Since the little horn was watched twice by Daniel, then we have to find out how many horns did he see with the little horn the first time.


We know that four great beasts were seen at the start of the chapter.
V 7 is where we understand the second vision of the night's story has started.


v 2
"...saw in my vision by night..."
-------------
v 7
"After this I saw in the night visions..."
----------
v 13
"I saw in the night visions...."

total tally for that night?
3 visions
(in 2 of them - - - Daniel watched the little horn with a mouthy mouth show up)

Jodysephus
Sep 23rd 2016, 04:42 PM
He watched him once in Dan 7:4, then again in verses 8,11,20-21, but 'not' the Diverse horn of verses 24-26 which is his direct adversary. (while one is destroying the other is being destroyed) Then he is in 8:3,20,11:2 (the fourth) and 11:36-40. And is in II Thes 2:8 (but not verses 3-7, because again this is his adversary) and are the first two Horses and their riders in Rev 2-4 and while ne is Mystery Babylon of Rev Ch's 17-18, the little horn (the devil) is fulfilling Rev ch's 12-13.

Stew Ward's Hip
Sep 23rd 2016, 04:54 PM
And how does this help me live my Christian life today?

TheDivineWatermark
Sep 23rd 2016, 05:26 PM
And how does this help me live my Christian life today?

How does hanging out in ETC help you with same? :spin: (you do seem to hang out here a bit... just sayin' :D )


How does "reading Numbers chapter 1" help you with same? Or do you totally avoid doing that because it doesn't seem quite "practical enough" I wonder... (just askin :lol: )




Adding this: I haven't read the thread, but then again, why would I have... it had been long buried, before today... :hmm:

TheDivineWatermark
Sep 23rd 2016, 05:41 PM
[while]... the little horn (the devil) is fulfilling Rev ch's 12-13.

Doesn't Revelation 13:2 say that "and the dragon [which is Satan/the devil, right?] gave him [beast rise up out of the sea] his power, and his seat, and great authority"... so don't you think this shows a distinction between "the devil" and "the beast"? Or are you saying something different?

Jodysephus
Sep 23rd 2016, 06:26 PM
No, your right, there is a big distinction between the Beasts and the Horns. (which one is the devil) The Beasts are super-power Nations and the Horns is always referring to Kings or Rulers.

TheDivineWatermark
Sep 23rd 2016, 08:44 PM
No, your right, there is a big distinction between the Beasts and the Horns. (which one is the devil) The Beasts are super-power Nations and the Horns is always referring to Kings or Rulers.

So in Revelation 13, I can see a distinction between "beast" [rise up out of the sea] and "[given...] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies" which I see as the individual (Daniel 7's "another little horn" in vv.8,11,20b-21 "more stout than his fellows",24 "diverse [king]",25).

In Revelation 19:20, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet... These BOTH/TWO were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone"... do you see this "both/two" as meaning the "super-power nations" along with the "false prophet,"? Or what? (and, what about the horn, then? which you say is the devil... the beast is cast into... but not the horn [yet], you mean?)

Jodysephus
Sep 23rd 2016, 10:25 PM
Almost, other than his 'fellows' are his direct neighbors that he is much more powerful than because he too is the leader of the Dan 7:4 Beast, and not the Diverse Horn. All '12' of them are Islamic and that is 'their' foundation just like the Twelve Tribes of Israel are to us.
Right, the entire Beastly conglomeration of Nations, (Dan 7:7, Rev 6:8) but only after Jesus has separated the Sheep from the Goats. The devil is only bound for a thousand years, but then afterwards will join the Beast and the false prophet in the lake of fire.

TheDivineWatermark
Sep 24th 2016, 02:53 AM
So what might be your take on Isaiah 24:21-22 (as I see it as parallel with Revelation 19:19 [16:14-16], 19:20 and chpt 20):

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days [this I see as the 1000 years] shall they be visited/punished.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


It says "they shall be shut up in the prison," and then later "punished"... so how might this relate to what you are saying of the "super-power nations" [i.e. "the beast" ("cast into the lake of fire," Rev19:20--whereas Satan is "cast into the bottomless pit" [Rev 20:3] for the 1000 yrs)] as you call them?

And I'm not really understanding what you are saying about the distinctions you see in Daniel 7? (I might even view it the same, but I'm not comprehending your points so it's hard for me to tell exactly, just yet).

Stew Ward's Hip
Sep 24th 2016, 03:01 AM
How does hanging out in ETC help you with same? :spin: (you do seem to hang out here a bit... just sayin' :D )


How does "reading Numbers chapter 1" help you with same? Or do you totally avoid doing that because it doesn't seem quite "practical enough" I wonder... (just askin :lol: )





Adding this: I haven't read the thread, but then again, why would I have... it had been long buried, before today... :hmm:

Helps me with insomnia and provides many illustrations of how not to read the bible...:D

And numbers 1 is great when you remember that having a separate priesthood was a second best fix that God didn't originate but worked with because of the hardness of their hearts.

TheDivineWatermark
Sep 24th 2016, 03:20 AM
Helps me with insomnia and provides many illustrations of how not to read the bible...:D

And numbers 1 is great when you remember that having a separate priesthood was a second best fix that God didn't originate but worked with because of the hardness of their hearts.

Hey then we are the same! I feel the same way about many areas of study throughout the Bible, including the area of eschatology. :) There's none of it that doesn't "help" in our daily life in some way, IMO. Now, listening to someone drone on and on about untruths is a wholly separate matter... :spin:
(Discussing ideas between and among believers can sometimes be helpful, when the opportunity arises and one has the time to attend to it, don't you think? :dunno: )

Jodysephus
Sep 24th 2016, 04:20 PM
Sorry Bro not avoiding your questions, but i kinda got bombarded with folks this weekend. Will try to get back to you later tonight.

TheDivineWatermark
Sep 24th 2016, 07:39 PM
Sorry Bro not avoiding your questions, but i kinda got bombarded with folks this weekend. Will try to get back to you later tonight.

That's fine (if you're talkin to me), I'm in no rush. :)

Wondered about this (in Dan7):

15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. [so it seems the interpretation of 'the visions' follows]

[and then this]

28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

Jodysephus
Sep 25th 2016, 02:23 PM
I concur with your parallel, that's some very good observations my Friend. All that takes place after all the super powers have done lost their dominion. Also not sure what distinctions your referring to.

TheDivineWatermark
Sep 27th 2016, 06:09 AM
Also not sure what distinctions your referring to.

Sorry I missed this... I meant what you put in the first part of your post #5, where you said,

"He watched him once in Dan 7:4, then again in verses 8,11,20-21, but 'not' the Diverse horn of verses 24-26 which is his direct adversary. (while one is destroying the other is being destroyed)"


Not sure I'm getting what you're saying (and how that differs from what I've said regarding Daniel 7... I do think it's different).

Thanks.

Oh, and by the way, I see in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8, that this occurs over the course of some time (not all on the same 24-hr day, or something... not even just 3.5 years, but the full 70th Week / 7 years... THAT span of time): verses 3,6,7-8a tell of its initial point [same with 1Th5:2-3 (the first birth PANG [singular])], and then verses 9-11,4 tell what occurs through those 7 years, with v.4 occurring in the middle. Verse 8b shows his destruction at the end of the 7 years (at Christ's 2nd Coming return to the earth).


And is in II Thes 2:8 (but not verses 3-7, because again this is his adversary)

Old man
Sep 28th 2016, 09:44 PM
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