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Jeffinator
Jan 31st 2009, 09:00 PM
Really looking for some sort of advice. I am currently, sorta in a relationship if that makes sense. I have been with this one girl Christina for a decently long time, 3 and half years to be exact. I am 20 years old and we were high school sweethearts who got caught up in love or lust (w/e you want to call it) and we kinda had an immoral relationship cuz we didnt wait til marriage. Other than that though we were amazing together and loved every moment with her. But this past year things went down hill big time and she started pulling away from me a lot and talked to me a lot less. She even went behind my back and drank, smoked, and got a tattoo without me knowing. It hurt and it felt like my sins were catching up to me. But that was just kinda a phase she went through and she kinda came out of. But me and her are still rocky and sometimes she tells me she misses and loves me, other times its almost like she doesnt care. She's going through a lot and has been really down for a long while and tells me it has nothing to do with me. Sometimes I feel like God is testing me to see what i should do. Should I stay and fight or turn and flee. Sometimes it feels like she wants nothing to do with me and other times its like shes crying out for help. Its so confusing. But i can honestly say i love her so much and i know she loves me. The spark seems to be dimmer though and what she did still kinda hurts. Is God tryin to push me away from her or just seeing how much I can take and how much i can forgive someone? I'm at a loss. I pray about it but I just dont feel any answers coming.

Athanasius
Feb 1st 2009, 05:03 AM
Really looking for some sort of advice. I am currently, sorta in a relationship if that makes sense. I have been with this one girl Christina for a decently long time, 3 and half years to be exact. I am 20 years old and we were high school sweethearts who got caught up in love or lust (w/e you want to call it) and we kinda had an immoral relationship cuz we didnt wait til marriage. Other than that though we were amazing together and loved every moment with her. But this past year things went down hill big time and she started pulling away from me a lot and talked to me a lot less. She even went behind my back and drank, smoked, and got a tattoo without me knowing. It hurt and it felt like my sins were catching up to me. But that was just kinda a phase she went through and she kinda came out of. But me and her are still rocky and sometimes she tells me she misses and loves me, other times its almost like she doesnt care. She's going through a lot and has been really down for a long while and tells me it has nothing to do with me. Sometimes I feel like God is testing me to see what i should do. Should I stay and fight or turn and flee. Sometimes it feels like she wants nothing to do with me and other times its like shes crying out for help. Its so confusing. But i can honestly say i love her so much and i know she loves me. The spark seems to be dimmer though and what she did still kinda hurts. Is God tryin to push me away from her or just seeing how much I can take and how much i can forgive someone? I'm at a loss. I pray about it but I just dont feel any answers coming.

You love her? Is she worth it?

Followtheway
Feb 3rd 2009, 09:56 PM
Here lies two choices:

1. according to the biblical standpoint the two of you are now one in body, during the old testament you would have to marry her, or technically youwould already be married after having sex. We as americans no longer live by this, although I feel that we should.

2. She is causing you to stumble, and you do not need that to stop you from growing in a relationship with the Lord.

the choice is yours, choose wisely.

Athanasius
Feb 3rd 2009, 10:15 PM
Here lies two choices:

1. according to the biblical standpoint the two of you are now one in body, during the old testament you would have to marry her, or technically youwould already be married after having sex. We as americans no longer live by this, although I feel that we should.

2. She is causing you to stumble, and you do not need that to stop you from growing in a relationship with the Lord.

the choice is yours, choose wisely.

Sex does not equate with marriage; it never did.

Followtheway
Feb 3rd 2009, 10:18 PM
It did for the first 4,000 years, look up the old hebrew way

Athanasius
Feb 3rd 2009, 10:24 PM
It did for the first 4,000 years, look up the old hebrew way

Scripture please:rolleyes:... With an argument attached.

Followtheway
Feb 4th 2009, 03:26 AM
Exodus 22:16

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

Genesis 2:24

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

Marriage (kiddushin and nissu'in)

In Jewish law, marriage consists of two separate acts, called kiddushin (or erusin, the engagement ceremony) and nissu'in, the actual wedding. Kiddushin changes the couple's personal status, while nissu'in brings about the legal consequences of the change of status. In Talmudic times, these two ceremonies usually took place about a year apart. The bride lived with her parents until the actual marriage ceremony, which would take place in a room or tent that the groom had set up for her. Later in history, the two ceremonies took place as a combined ceremony, and the marriage ceremony started to be performed publicly.

There are three ways for a Jewish couple to effect kiddushin (Mishna, Tractate Kiddushin 1:1):

* With money (kesef) or with an object of value, such as a ring or a coin, for the purpose of contracted marriage, and in the presence of two witnesses, and she actively accepts;
* Through a contract (shtar) in the presence of two witnesses, containing the declaration of kiddushin (see below); or
* By sexual intercourse with the intention of creating a bond of marriage; a method strongly discouraged by the rabbinic sages and intended only for levirate marriages.

Need I say more?

Athanasius
Feb 4th 2009, 04:57 AM
Exodus 22:16

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

Does not equate sex with marriage.



Genesis 2:24

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

Marriage (kiddushin and nissu'in)

Does not equate sex with marriage.



In Jewish law, marriage consists of two separate acts, called kiddushin (or erusin, the engagement ceremony) and nissu'in, the actual wedding. Kiddushin changes the couple's personal status, while nissu'in brings about the legal consequences of the change of status. In Talmudic times, these two ceremonies usually took place about a year apart. The bride lived with her parents until the actual marriage ceremony, which would take place in a room or tent that the groom had set up for her. Later in history, the two ceremonies took place as a combined ceremony, and the marriage ceremony started to be performed publicly.

There are three ways for a Jewish couple to effect kiddushin (Mishna, Tractate Kiddushin 1:1):

* With money (kesef) or with an object of value, such as a ring or a coin, for the purpose of contracted marriage, and in the presence of two witnesses, and she actively accepts;
* Through a contract (shtar) in the presence of two witnesses, containing the declaration of kiddushin (see below); or
* By sexual intercourse with the intention of creating a bond of marriage; a method strongly discouraged by the rabbinic sages and intended only for levirate marriages.

Need I say more?

Sure... Waiting for a scriptural argument equating sex with marriage; not social customs with sex with marriage.

Scubadude
Feb 6th 2009, 09:37 PM
Really looking for some sort of advice. I am currently, sorta in a relationship if that makes sense. I have been with this one girl Christina for a decently long time, 3 and half years to be exact. I am 20 years old and we were high school sweethearts who got caught up in love or lust (w/e you want to call it) and we kinda had an immoral relationship cuz we didnt wait til marriage. Other than that though we were amazing together and loved every moment with her. But this past year things went down hill big time and she started pulling away from me a lot and talked to me a lot less. She even went behind my back and drank, smoked, and got a tattoo without me knowing. It hurt and it felt like my sins were catching up to me. But that was just kinda a phase she went through and she kinda came out of. But me and her are still rocky and sometimes she tells me she misses and loves me, other times its almost like she doesnt care. She's going through a lot and has been really down for a long while and tells me it has nothing to do with me. Sometimes I feel like God is testing me to see what i should do. Should I stay and fight or turn and flee. Sometimes it feels like she wants nothing to do with me and other times its like shes crying out for help. Its so confusing. But i can honestly say i love her so much and i know she loves me. The spark seems to be dimmer though and what she did still kinda hurts. Is God tryin to push me away from her or just seeing how much I can take and how much i can forgive someone? I'm at a loss. I pray about it but I just dont feel any answers coming.

Jeffinator, Jeffmyster, Jeff-o-rama........ Sorry. I just like your screen name.

It seems like you have grown in your thoughts over the years regarding the way you want your relationships to move forward. That's a good thing. She seems to be moving in a direction with her life that you can't support. Am I wrong?

I think you should flee. Sound cold? She has some big issues that you can't help her with. You can't change her.

catholicdude
Feb 6th 2009, 11:58 PM
Exodus 22:16"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

The whole verse equates sex and marriage. If someone sleeps with a virgin, he has to get married. This obviously meant by "bride-price" and "she shall be his wife". I don't know how it can be any clearer, it seems like you just are not willing to accept the truth.

Pax,
Zach

Scubadude
Feb 7th 2009, 12:05 AM
The whole verse equates sex and marriage. If someone sleeps with a virgin, he has to get married. This obviously meant by "bride-price" and "she shall be his wife". I don't know how it can be any clearer, it seems like you just are not willing to accept the truth.

Pax,
Zach

:OFFT:


I don't think this is the OP question.

catholicdude
Feb 7th 2009, 12:32 AM
:OFFT:


I don't think this is the OP question.

I was just going with the flow of the thread, Jeffinator must have gotten what he was looking for seeing as he hasn't come back.

Pax,
Zach

Athanasius
Feb 7th 2009, 01:14 AM
The whole verse equates sex and marriage. If someone sleeps with a virgin, he has to get married. This obviously meant by "bride-price" and "she shall be his wife". I don't know how it can be any clearer, it seems like you just are not willing to accept the truth.

Pax,
Zach

You don't understand the culture this verse speaks to. The man must marry the woman because otherwise she'd be treated worse than a dog, no longer being a virgin (hence worthless, undesireable). This wasn't because they were married because of sex.

catholicdude
Feb 8th 2009, 04:18 AM
You don't understand the culture this verse speaks to. The man must marry the woman because otherwise she'd be treated worse than a dog, no longer being a virgin (hence worthless, undesireable). This wasn't because they were married because of sex.

This seems to be the sequence of events:

1) Man and woman have sex
2) Women gets treated horribly
3) Man and woman get married because of the horrible treatment

Nowadays we cut out the middle man (number 2) because our culture doesn't care if their women are not virgins. While I don't think that people are "married" (according to law) if they have sex, I do hold that they've become "one flesh" and are spiritually married.

Pax,
Zach

Athanasius
Feb 8th 2009, 05:37 AM
This seems to be the sequence of events:

1) Man and woman have sex
2) Women gets treated horribly
3) Man and woman get married because of the horrible treatment

Nowadays we cut out the middle man (number 2) because our culture doesn't care if their women are not virgins. While I don't think that people are "married" (according to law) if they have sex, I do hold that they've become "one flesh" and are spiritually married.

No, they aren't spiritually married and they aren't physically married and before someone proposes it, they don't have a "soul tie". They are commanded to marry because of culture, not because they became "one flesh".

Revinius
Feb 8th 2009, 02:12 PM
Jeff, i would be a man and ask the girl to marry you (and in so doing be responsible - you took what wasnt your's to have and should repent of that). If she declines then i would ask forgiveness of her and take your leave.

Athanasius
Feb 8th 2009, 02:48 PM
Though keep in mind... Marriage isn't necessarily the best thing to ask for.

Friend of Jesus
Feb 10th 2009, 12:17 PM
Since no one has said it yet (and they should) I'm going to:

PRAY!!!

Why try to help her on your own if you've got God living in you- pray and get close to God, ask him to deal with the problem and he will, he has promised this to you.

I personally do not think you should ask her to marry you; at least not at the moment. A proposal might only complicate the situation- If we're going to have a discussion about the definition of marriage then let's start another thread.

Let God's grace be with you

zonetripper
Feb 10th 2009, 07:50 PM
Since no one has said it yet (and they should) I'm going to:

PRAY!!!

Why try to help her on your own if you've got God living in you- pray and get close to God, ask him to deal with the problem and he will, he has promised this to you.


This dude. When in need of wisdom and direction go to the source. It's all spelled out in james chapter 1.

Funny thing. I've been in a similar situation. The questions you have cannot be answered by anyone here. If he wants you to have resolution with her then you will but you need to seek God first.

Lordistruth
Feb 12th 2009, 09:25 PM
This dude. When in need of wisdom and direction go to the source. It's all spelled out in james chapter 1.

Funny thing. I've been in a similar situation. The questions you have cannot be answered by anyone here. If he wants you to have resolution with her then you will but you need to seek God first.

I don't think that God is going to take away Jeffinator's or this girl's free will. If THEY want to have a resloution together, they will. Too many times I see Christians contradicting themselves. One day people say we have free will, other day's people say, if God wills it it will happen

Dez-troy-a
Feb 12th 2009, 09:58 PM
Really looking for some sort of advice. I am currently, sorta in a relationship if that makes sense. I have been with this one girl Christina for a decently long time, 3 and half years to be exact. I am 20 years old and we were high school sweethearts who got caught up in love or lust (w/e you want to call it) and we kinda had an immoral relationship cuz we didnt wait til marriage. Other than that though we were amazing together and loved every moment with her. But this past year things went down hill big time and she started pulling away from me a lot and talked to me a lot less. She even went behind my back and drank, smoked, and got a tattoo without me knowing. It hurt and it felt like my sins were catching up to me. But that was just kinda a phase she went through and she kinda came out of. But me and her are still rocky and sometimes she tells me she misses and loves me, other times its almost like she doesnt care. She's going through a lot and has been really down for a long while and tells me it has nothing to do with me. Sometimes I feel like God is testing me to see what i should do. Should I stay and fight or turn and flee. Sometimes it feels like she wants nothing to do with me and other times its like shes crying out for help. Its so confusing. But i can honestly say i love her so much and i know she loves me. The spark seems to be dimmer though and what she did still kinda hurts. Is God tryin to push me away from her or just seeing how much I can take and how much i can forgive someone? I'm at a loss. I pray about it but I just dont feel any answers coming.

Sup Jeff? The vine always needs a stalk. Take a moment to think about this. Many people will say ditch her, but what if HELP is all she needs. Dont you think it will be way more cool to stick by her and say "sweetheart, we are in this together". Would any married person here leave their partners if they have a breakdown? Of course you aint married, but you said you LOVE her. And by this I hope you mean the "committed to you love" and not "I have good feelings for you at good times love". One day, you might be the stalkless vine and it will all be quid pro quo.

If you were in her situation...(MAY GOD FORBID), what would you like her to do? What would Jesus do, meh?

Dez boy.