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View Full Version : Who is more in danger of being decieved and taking the mark?



rom826
Feb 1st 2009, 02:26 PM
I have spoke to quite a few believers who have said that pre-tribbers are the most likely to "fall away" and take the mark when the time comes. I am starting to question that. It seems to me that those who believe the great tribulation already happened in 70 AD are the ones who are most likely to get decieved and take the mark of the beast when the time comes.

Here's why. When the time comes, pre-tribbers, since they believe there will be a future anti-christ, will be able to discern the situation and recognize they were wrong in their belief that the rapture would occur before revealing of the anti-christ. On the other hand, those who believe there will be no future great tribualtion and therefore no future anti-christ, will be saying something like "that can't really be the anti-christ since all that stuff happened in 70 ad". Therefore I see those who do not recognize that there will be a future anti-christ as being the most likely to be decieved when the great tribulation comes. I pray that these folks recognize their error when the great tribulation comes and do not get decieved and take the mark.

ross3421
Feb 1st 2009, 03:35 PM
I have spoke to quite a few believers who have said that pre-tribbers are the most likely to "fall away" and take the mark when the time comes. I am starting to question that. It seems to me that those who believe the great tribulation already happened in 70 AD are the ones who are most likely to get deceived and take the mark of the beast when the time comes.

Here's why. When the time comes, pre-tribbers, since they believe there will be a future anti-christ, will be able to discern the situation and recognize they were wrong in their belief that the rapture would occur before revealing of the anti-christ. On the other hand, those who believe there will be no future great tribulation and therefore no future anti-christ, will be saying something like "that can't really be the anti-christ since all that stuff happened in 70 ad". Therefore I see those who do not recognize that there will be a future anti-christ as being the most likely to be deceived when the great tribulation comes. I pray that these folks recognize their error when the great tribulation comes and do not get deceived and take the mark.

Anyone who has the Spirit will ultimately not accept the mark. The spirit will guide them no matter what there understanding on future events maybe.

However does the Spirit really allow such a great disparity of views?

HisLeast
Feb 1st 2009, 04:15 PM
Scripture at least sounds pretty clear on the mark to me. It is associated with worship of the abomination. Those who don't worship are not given the mark, and only have to worry about how they'll endure torture to the end.

Now, the only preterists I know take their faith in God very seriously, and I just can't fathom the idea of them worshiping anything set up as an idol.

The only people I can see doing so, are the armies of Churchians throughout the world. You know. The people who see Christianity as a vague social connection and not a life altering commitment. The "basically good people". And before I stare down my nose in condemnation at them, I had better make good and darned sure I'm not one of their number. Easier said than done.

One thing's for sure, ANYONE entering into that time is 17 different flavors of unlucky. I imagine no small number will take the mark simply because they've never felt encouragement in their faith. So rather than casting lots and betting on who the weakest would be, we should encourage and uplift each other before the time to come. Of course, the restrainer could already have gone, and there are none left to do so.

tango
Feb 1st 2009, 04:58 PM
I'd be inclined to say anyone who thinks that their own view is right and is unwilling to change is in danger of accepting the mark.

Personally I'm inclined to believe in a post-trib rapture, and for the purpose of brevity I'm going to assume that the post-trib viewpoint is correct from here on in, rather than having to explicitly state the assumption repeatedly. If the post-trib viewpoint is wrong then the rest of the post is of academic interest only anyway...

If someone believes in a rapture before the tribulation, or the tribulation being a historic event, or indeed anything else that involves Christians not having to go through the events described in Revelation then, come the tribulation, as I see it they will have two options.

One is to accept they were wrong, in which case they will see it for what it is and change their worldview.

If they refuse to accept they are wrong then the only conclusions remaining are that either the events around them aren't the tribulation, or that they were left behind.

I must admit when it comes to discussions of what events lie before us it's thinking like this that leaves me wondering just how much benefit can be gained. In terms of what lies before us, we'll find out soon enough. We may face the tribulation in our lifetimes, we may be raptured before it, it may be the tribulation is to come but far enough in the future that we won't see it, it may be the tribulation is entirely historic. Either way, we'll find out what's coming sooner or later, so endless hours discussing what might be doesn't seem hugely fruitful to me.

Benaiah
Feb 1st 2009, 06:59 PM
I would say anyone ho thinks that it is just a matter of avoiding a tattoo, bar code, or RFID chip. rather than understanding it is about the Thoughts (forehead) and deeds (Hand) bearing the mark of the beast.

The "mark" is in reality the mirror image of God's command to bind his word to your forehead and hand. The Jews took this literally and strapped little boxes that contained scripture to their forehead and hand. (Teffilin)

ross3421
Feb 1st 2009, 07:15 PM
Scripture at least sounds pretty clear on the mark to me. It is associated with worship of the abomination. Those who don't worship are not given the mark, and only have to worry about how they'll endure torture to the end.

Now, the only preterists I know take their faith in God very seriously, and I just can't fathom the idea of them worshiping anything set up as an idol.

The only people I can see doing so, are the armies of Churchians throughout the world. You know. The people who see Christianity as a vague social connection and not a life altering commitment. The "basically good people". And before I stare down my nose in condemnation at them, I had better make good and darned sure I'm not one of their number. Easier said than done.

One thing's for sure, ANYONE entering into that time is 17 different flavors of unlucky. I imagine no small number will take the mark simply because they've never felt encouragement in their faith. So rather than casting lots and betting on who the weakest would be, we should encourage and uplift each other before the time to come. Of course, the restrainer could already have gone, and there are none left to do so.

Yes. The most important thing is to witnes the good news that all may have the spirit which will give discernment in these times for it will be such a strong delusion. Those who receive the mark of the beast will believe they have received the mark of God not Satan.

The concerning thing is not that the ungodly who profess another way but those of the churches whom profess but are not saved. This will be the time where the rubber meets the road, where the real Mccoys will stand up. The deception will be so great of a couterfeit that these "lukeworm" church members which with open armes accept this mark and will even be against their own families which do not accept and offer them up.

If you are not willing to die at some point for Christ then I would say this is a reflection of your faith. There is no greater reward then to die for your faith.

Now a concern should be for those who beleive in a doctrine which states one does not have to die for their faith during this time ie the rapture of course. Tied directly to the mark of the beast is the theory of the rapture of the church. What would happen if they find themselves in a situation they have to die, will they fall away? How about the pastors/teachers which promote this theory? Note nobody else really knows who is saved and who is not so one would not lose their salvation but fall away from their first love. Folks do fall away when they are confronted with death, will it be you?

Mt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Mt 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Mt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

I know the reason that I for a time clinged to this theory of the rapture was the thought of never having to die and go thru this painful period. I often got upset when people told me otherwise. Now further along in my faith I look forward more than ever for the end times to unfold whereby God will be looking for followers to endure till the end.

Re 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth:

Mark

quiet dove
Feb 1st 2009, 09:07 PM
This thread is something that is based on opinion and the attempt to judge the faith of others .

Being willing to die for ones faith is not determined by ones end time view, nor is ones ability to realize the danger of worshiping the False one.

So before this turns into a, lets judge what other views will do, I am closing it, there are post here that have covered it well enough.