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StevenM
Feb 11th 2009, 05:28 AM
What is a spirit?

Seems a very elementary question to most people, even a lot of people who reject all organized religions still consider themselves spiritual, not me because I don’t even know what it is to be spritual, because I’ve never gotten a satisfying answer to what a spirit is in a natural sense.

Is my spirit my thoughts?

What is the connection of my spirit and physical reality? Is my spirit actually in my physical body somehow, or is it in some other dimension monitoring what’s happening to me in this natural realm?

Is a spirit the same thing as a soul?

Is my spirit immortal?

Is it gender neutral?

Did it exist before I was born in my mortal form? If so then why don’t I remember anything from before I was born?

Why can’t I sense my own spirit, or any spirit for that matter? We’re supposed to be able to sense the Holy Spirit, but I can’t.

What about the people who call themselves “mediums”, are they liars?

If a spirit is in some dimension that can’t be detected in a physical sense, how then can a spirit be so tied to our physical reality, and be judged by God on the way it responds to the things that happen in our physical reality, with all the physical limitations that are put on them? Why doesn’t God judge our spirits on their own spiritual merits?

I have so many more questions about spirits, but this seems like a lot to start with.

watchinginawe
Feb 11th 2009, 06:39 AM
What is a spirit?
...
Why can’t I sense my own spirit, or any spirit for that matter? We’re supposed to be able to sense the Holy Spirit, but I can’t.
Hello StevenM.

"Sensing" your own spirit? :hmm: That actually is an interesting way of putting it. By what means or sensory organs would you "sense" your own spirit? Descartes suggested that if we discard in our reasoning all of the inputs of our senses and all of our thoughts as potentially doubtful then ultimately we are left with the one who is doing the discarding and the doubting. Descartes concluded from this the infamous "I think therefore I am". He could not doubt that he existed. Do you doubt that you are alive? Is the ability to know that you exist as a living being separate from your senses a way of "sensing" your own spirit?

At the minimum, our spirit is our natural body's life force. Without our spirit, the body dies. Now, our spirit can be Spiritually born of God and become our soul's life force toward God in eternal life. (Spirituality) In the same way of being able to "sense" our own spirit, when our spirit is born of God we are able to "sense" the Holy Spirit, and thus God. We can not doubt that He exists!

God Bless!

markinro
Feb 11th 2009, 11:21 AM
What is a spirit?Simply put, it is our connection to God.
JOHN 4:24. God is spirit and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth


Is my spirit my thoughts?Not exactly but our they do reveal our spirit
MATT 15:19 Out of our spirit proceed evil thoughts...


What is the connection of my spirit and physical reality?Though our spirit has no physical form, it does exists here with us. When we die, our bodies return to dust and our spirit will exist in hell until final judgement or in heaven, forever.


Is a spirit the same thing as a soul?
Think of it as concentric circles. The spirit(eternal) inside the soul (thoughts, emotions) inside the body(five senses)


Is my spirit immortal?I don't know if you have heard this saying. Live once, die twice. Live twice, die once. Those who are not born again, will die physically and then die spiritually after Jesus returns. Those are born again (live twice) will live forever. Neat, huh ?


Is it gender neutral?Hmmmm...I'm going to have to say yes. Its the men are from mars, women are from venus idea.


Did it exist before I was born in my mortal form?If you mean conception, no. If you mean physical birth, yes.
JER 1:5 (paraphrase) When you were in your mothers womb, I KNEW you


Why can’t I sense my own spirit...Not in a physical sense but its there. Have you ever had an idea/thought and think "wow, where did that come from"?


...or any spirit for that matter?Gods spirit has been revealed to all. It was Gods spirit which formed the earth.
ROM 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


What about the people who call themselves “mediums”, are they liars?Yup. In many cases, they have been debunked. I've seen episodes of Ghost Hunters. They show you only what they want you to see.


Why doesn’t God judge our spirits on their own spiritual merits?He has given us our very life. He is the one who made our parents. Our eternal position is determined by what we do with this gift. Each man will be judged according to their works - the primary of which - will you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior ?

StevenM
Mar 2nd 2009, 06:35 PM
Thanks for the responses, but I still don't have any sense that spirits are real. If a spirit is our connection to God, then why have I never once felt any connection to a God, no matter how hard I've tried? If our spirit is our life force, what is the life force of other living things, like dogs, and giraffes and sharks, and lizards and centipedes, and bees, and jelly fish, and ticks and headlice, and walruses and salmon, and horses, and bacteria, eukaryotic and prokaryotic cells, venus flytrap plants, and rose bushes? Do they have spirits, where do their life forces go when they die?

I don't understand the explanation that the spirit exists inside of the soul which exists inside of the physical body. It's confusing enough that even one of those exists inside my body. So how exactly are a spirit and soul different? I just checked my dictionary and the #1 definition for spirit is "the soul".

As to the question have I ever had an idea/thought and wondered where it came from, yes I have many times, I'm an artist and I grew up with creative encouragement from a lot of other artists. There is a lot of measurable stimuli all around this planet though, impossible for one brain to fully account for and there are waves from space constantly impacting the planet from the farthest reaches of the universe. My neurons are incessantly processing this constant intake of new information, as well as that which has accumulated from over my lifetime, and combining things with no conscious effort on my part, so when I have a spontaneous idea/thought and wonder, "where did that come from?" I haven't found any reason yet to suspect that it came from an indetectable spirit of some kind, not when there are simpler, sensible explanations. Other people have other experiences, so while I have never sensed a spirit, other people say they do which is why I'm here to try to understand what it is they're talking about.

I have heard the phrase "live once, die twice. live twice, die once." but it doesn't really hold any water for me. It has as much real meaning to me as there being a soul inside of my body with a spirit inside of that. I have no sense of any of it. I understand what it's saying in terms of fantasy laws, but I just don't know how it applies to reality. I've met plenty of people who say they've been born again, but they don't seem any more alive than I do, or in possesion of any more insights or skills than anyone else could have. I don't doubt that I'm alive, there have been many breakthroughs in our understanding of the world since Descartes was alive. He could think therefore he was, but what about the people who can't think, are they not ... am? We see how people's thoughts and personalities drastically change based on different physical stimulus, and limitations. People who've had devastating damage to one side of their brain or another then learn to rely on the existing healthy side of their brain and attain all new interests with it. If they had an immortal spirit I would think their personality would remain more intact.

Buck shot
Mar 2nd 2009, 10:29 PM
Your spirit is who you are. It is where your creativity comes from as an artist.

You asked about people changing because they lost part of themselves and had to learn to adapt so they formed a new personality. The same can happen to someone who is not injured in any way physically but loses someone they love in a horrible accident. We can even change if we are promoted too quickly in our workplace. God is the only thing in our lives that does not change.

I have a good friend who had a horrible stroke. He loved the Lord before his stroke and still praises God after. It has taken him several years to learn to talk and walk again but He never changed who he was. He says that God is His anchor and his body will fail him but not his God. :)

Our bodies are only a vessel for our spirit.

"live once, die twice. live twice, die once."

The Bible tells us that these bodies will die but our spirit was created eternal. Death for our bodies is the absence of life but death for our spirit is to be absent from God.

Live once, die twice means that you decide to not believe that God loves you and you choose to live life your way no matter what He says. Your body will die (absent from life) and your spirit will be cast into the lake of fire (forever absent from God)

Live twice, die once means that you lived for yourself once but chose to lay that life aside and trust God and recieve a new life for Him. Your body will still die but your spirit will be forever with the Lord.

I hope this helps you to understand.

StevenM
Mar 2nd 2009, 11:46 PM
I'm not choosing to live my life with out god, there was no decision involved, I've never felt any godly prescence ever in my entire life to make a decision one way or another on. I've only ever seen this present reality and met people claiming to be living for god, and since I've been a little kid I've only ever been trying to understand what they're talking about in regards to a god. How will I ever lay my current life aside and trust god when I don't even know where that god is to trust? What is that thing that I lay my trust down on? Why doesn't there seem to really be a common purpose among all the believers in the world? If it is a real thing that they're tapping into it shouldn't even be a matter of trust, it should just be something that everyone can see as apparant and there wouldn't be any disagreement, but there is disagreement among the billions of faithful. Why is that?

watchinginawe
Mar 3rd 2009, 03:07 AM
If our spirit is our life force, what is the life force of other living things, like dogs, and giraffes and sharks, and lizards and centipedes, and bees, and jelly fish, and ticks and headlice, and walruses and salmon, and horses, and bacteria, eukaryotic and prokaryotic cells, venus flytrap plants, and rose bushes? Do they have spirits, where do their life forces go when they die?I think there probably would be a difference between plants and animals. I would say the life force of animals is their spirit. But consider whether headlice might ever feel ashamed of an action and then consider whether you might ever feel ashamed of an action. Is there a difference between StevenM and headlice? Of course there is. Even among men, StevenM and watchinginawe can reasonably be held accountable for their actions. Whether there be God or not, it certainly shouldn't be a foreign concept that man's actions are of a different class than those of other animals and therefore worthy of judgment. Now whether the secret things that man never judges is actually ever judged does not diminish the existence and recognition of the secret things done by man. So one potential difference between the spirit of animals and the spirit of man that you might consider is guilt.
There is a lot of measurable stimuli all around this planet though, impossible for one brain to fully account for and there are waves from space constantly impacting the planet from the farthest reaches of the universe. My neurons are incessantly processing this constant intake of new information, as well as that which has accumulated from over my lifetime, and combining things with no conscious effort on my part, so when I have a spontaneous idea/thought and wonder, "where did that come from?" I haven't found any reason yet to suspect that it came from an indetectable spirit of some kind, not when there are simpler, sensible explanations. Other people have other experiences, so while I have never sensed a spirit, other people say they do which is why I'm here to try to understand what it is they're talking about.
...
I don't doubt that I'm alive,I use to to believe and refer to my consciousness (life) as nothing but a bunch of complex synergistic chemical reactions, the sum of which "died" when enough of them ceased. I don't know every aspect of your situation, but I can say that I held similar beliefs regarding God and man as you state in your posts. I discussed and discussed and discussed and discussed. I preached from the pulpit of reality and maturely embraced the implications. I bettered myself ethically because I thought it was the right thing to do. But through it all I never gave the contemplation of it all a rest. Call it what you will, I suppose I was seeking. What I can tell you is that seekers eventually find, that is if they have time enough before their chemical reactions cease.

I encourage you to keep seeking.

God Bless!

StevenM
Mar 3rd 2009, 04:27 AM
So animals do have immortal spirits? What happens to them after they die then? I would argue that dogs do feel shame. There are some truly heroic dogs out there, who risk their lives to protect people, shouldn't they be rewarded in the afterlife? Also I wouldn't say that the feeling of guilt is what separates humans from animals because there have been countless humans who've never demonstrated any guilty emotions. All animals avoid punishment though. How exactly would you separate the feeling of fear of punishment and the feeling of guilt?

livingwaters
Mar 3rd 2009, 04:30 AM
"Why doesn't there seem to really be a common purpose among all the believers in the world?"

There is a common purpose among true believers: JESUS CHRIST!!! See this picture and tell me if it shows to you who God is and why Jesus went through this excruciating ordeal to pay our "sin debt" that we might have everlasting life!
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn201/cherylhebert/passion%20of%20Christ/Jesus.gif
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn201/cherylhebert/passion%20of%20Christ/33.jpg

I found a few definitions:http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

2: a supernatural being or essence: as acapitalized : holy spirit (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/holy+spirit) b: soul (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soul) 2a c: an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible
3: temper or disposition of mind or outlook especially when vigorous or animated <in high spirits>
4: the immaterial intelligent or sentient part of a person

Hope this helps!! If you are sincerely interested in getting answers to these questions, please visit a church and speak to a pastor. Also, if you really want to feel and know God and who is and how much HE loves you, invest in a Bible. May you seek the Lord diligently and with a sincere heart and HE will reveal HIMSELF to you. :hug:

watchinginawe
Mar 3rd 2009, 01:20 PM
So animals do have immortal spirits? What happens to them after they die then? I would argue that dogs do feel shame. There are some truly heroic dogs out there, who risk their lives to protect people, shouldn't they be rewarded in the afterlife? Also I wouldn't say that the feeling of guilt is what separates humans from animals because there have been countless humans who've never demonstrated any guilty emotions. All animals avoid punishment though. How exactly would you separate the feeling of fear of punishment and the feeling of guilt?I said that any animal's life is because of their spirit. As I orignally offered, it is what makes us alive. Now you want to be confused as to the difference between animals and man, and spirits and souls, and whether you can even detect a difference or existence of such within. You have enough information to think about it. I would encourage you to examine the situation for yourself though, since you can trust best what you "feel" or "don't feel" (know, or don't know) on the subject. And besides, something must not agree with you inside or you wouldn't be pursuing the subject. You would have found rest and moved on to something else. As I encouraged before, keep seeking.

On the subject of sociopaths, etc., I would offer that we don't know all there is to know. I know that if I wound a man in the eyes he may become blind. But that doesn't change his status as a man. I know there are several who are wounded in the spirit, living seemingly with no conscious. Some of the worst find themselves doing the most evil things as judged both by man and God. Why do you suppose that is?

If you want answers as to what happens to dogs, etc., do a search. There have been more than a few discussions but I don't think they are going to be generally helpful to your understanding. They may be interesting though.

I think what you mean by fear of punishment is self preservation. I agree that seems a common trait among animals and man. I wouldn't think that man not murdering (as in 1st degree murder) another man amounts to "fear of punishment" or "self preservation" though. As for animals, to the extent that some have been domesticated doesn't mean they have a sense of good and evil. For example, when Montecore set his jaws around Roy Horn's throat and drug him off stage about 5 years ago, no one was judging the tiger's actions morally. Read the news on this though because Zeigfried and Roy still insist that Montecore was actually protecting Roy, elevating the actions of Montecore to a level of love.

God Bless!

markinro
Mar 3rd 2009, 01:35 PM
So animals do have immortal spirits? What happens to them after they die then? I would argue that dogs do feel shame. There are some truly heroic dogs out there, who risk their lives to protect people, shouldn't they be rewarded in the afterlife? Also I wouldn't say that the feeling of guilt is what separates humans from animals because there have been countless humans who've never demonstrated any guilty emotions. All animals avoid punishment though. How exactly would you separate the feeling of fear of punishment and the feeling of guilt?

Animals do not have a spirit. When they die, there is nothing after. In this way, man is unique. God breathed life into Adam, not Fido.

StevenM
Mar 3rd 2009, 04:56 PM
I just got two opposite answers, that animals do have spirits and that they don't. Thing thing that does not agree with me inside is that I see no evidence in the world for a god or spirits but the majority of the world does, so I'm wondering why that is, and why from among the people who do believe I get conflicting answers like the above.

I don't want to be confused about that stuff, and I don't have enough information to think about it. I've been measuring the information I have and I can't make it fit with the world outside.

I do have two bibles and I've tried to read them, but it really does just seem like material for a scholar in a museum, or university, or someone into mythology. I believe our culture has gotten much more kind, and smart to have any practical use for those ancient superstitions and cruel laws. Maybe I am missing something, but everytime I try to read the bible in a way where I try to make it relevant to the world outside, I feel like my brain is going to implode, it's infuriating. So I just keep asking questions.

watchinginawe
Mar 3rd 2009, 06:27 PM
I just got two opposite answers, that animals do have spirits and that they don't. Thing thing that does not agree with me inside is that I see no evidence in the world for a god or spirits but the majority of the world does, so I'm wondering why that is, and why from among the people who do believe I get conflicting answers like the above.Well, I think I already offered that it wouldn't be very helpful to dig into this. But the answers don't contradict as much as you presume, if at all. I have hesitated to offer this scripture, but I will to make the point since it is important to you.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
...
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

So you can see concord between my post and Mark's if you want to put some effort into it. The point being that there is a differnece between animals and man.
I don't want to be confused about that stuff, and I don't have enough information to think about it. I've been measuring the information I have and I can't make it fit with the world outside.I don't know what to say. Are you at peace? Does what you already have fit together with everything? If you believe that all you are is a bunch of synapses with organic memory then so be it. I don't know how else to introduce you to yourself. You will have to do that yourself and you don't need religion or superstition or anything else to make First Contact.
I do have two bibles and I've tried to read them, but it really does just seem like material for a scholar in a museum, or university, or someone into mythology. I believe our culture has gotten much more kind, and smart to have any practical use for those ancient superstitions and cruel laws. Maybe I am missing something, but everytime I try to read the bible in a way where I try to make it relevant to the world outside, I feel like my brain is going to implode, it's infuriating. So I just keep asking questions.Keep seeking!

God Bless!

CareBearCountdown
Mar 3rd 2009, 07:04 PM
I just got two opposite answers, that animals do have spirits and that they don't. Thing thing that does not agree with me inside is that I see no evidence in the world for a god or spirits but the majority of the world does, so I'm wondering why that is, and why from among the people who do believe I get conflicting answers like the above.

I don't want to be confused about that stuff, and I don't have enough information to think about it. I've been measuring the information I have and I can't make it fit with the world outside.

I do have two bibles and I've tried to read them, but it really does just seem like material for a scholar in a museum, or university, or someone into mythology. I believe our culture has gotten much more kind, and smart to have any practical use for those ancient superstitions and cruel laws. Maybe I am missing something, but everytime I try to read the bible in a way where I try to make it relevant to the world outside, I feel like my brain is going to implode, it's infuriating. So I just keep asking questions.

The difference between the spirit of man and that of animals is that we are created in God's image and nothing else was.

The reason there are so many conflicting answers about things is because there are so many different doctrines and theologies. Please don't let these things discourage you. There are a lot of things in the Bible that as humans we still have questions about that are not mentioned or that it doesn't go into great detail about. We all want answers and as soon as we get some information we want more. The way I see it, God probably didn't find it relevant to add things into the Bible that don't pertain to our salvation, which should be the primary focus. The Bible doesn't contradict itself, people contradict each other.

As far as the "cruel laws" you mentioned, you're exactly right, the world doesn't have any use for them anymore. In the New Covenant/ Testament, Jesus is the redeemer for all who believe in Him. In the Old Testament and under the Mosaic Law, things were pretty harsh. But now, instead of animal sacrifices we have Jesus, the perfect sacrifice. Instead of not having a direct relationship with the Father, in order to cleanse us of our sins when we ask for forgiveness we have Jesus who is our advocate. 1 John 2:1-2 - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but a also for the sins of the whole world.

Buck shot
Mar 3rd 2009, 11:21 PM
There are all differant beliefs within the Christian organizations. Sometimes it makes me sick how my brothers and sisters argue over things that really do not have any importance to our eternal homes.:B They are their interpretations of the scriptures or they are listening to what someone else is falsely teaching and trusting it.

The thing is we all should agree that we are sinners and need to be forgiven. We all know that God does not like sin and Jesus is the only way we can be forgiven.

Have you ever seen the wind? How about hot or cold? I know you can feel those things but i can also promise you that the felling of peace that comes upon us when we are serving God cannot be compared to anything i ever felt when i was a volunteer fireman or EMT. When God blesses us with that peace that is beyond all understanding, that is all the proof i need. Thing is, you cannot get it without recieving it by a real faith in the one who gives it.

bagofseed
Mar 3rd 2009, 11:36 PM
Good question,
"What is a Spirit"
there are secrets hidden here.

The bible teaches:

God is Spirit.

God's (I believe first given) name is more of a description
"I am that I am"

Each of God's given names is a description of His nature

Even the name of Jesus means ~ "the God who saves"

The scripture says the Father shares His name with the Son.

You do the math.

bagofseed
Mar 3rd 2009, 11:50 PM
StevenM

People are not where you need to get your answers from.

If you are talking to people ask them what their experience of God is.

My faith was mostly based on the bible and what others say in the beginning.
It was a good start, because it made me look.
But at some point, it has to be God speaking to your heart that He is real and can be trusted.

If you seek Him with your whole heart He may let you find Him.

cdo
Mar 6th 2009, 02:15 AM
Hi Steven,
As for as you wanting and needing explainations of your
spirit and to reconize your spirit which is the Holy Spirit from
God.As a Christian, God promised us His Spirit to all His children who have accepted Him as our Savior to witness with our spirit.As for as myself ...I really couldn't explain how it's suppose to feel.I just know that you need God in your life and He will do the rest.He is the Great Teacher.I can promise you this one important thing.....you'll know and feel His Spirit inside.
We have to be very cautious when 'things' come into our minds and be sure it's not the flesh in your mind but, the spirit witnessing with your.
I would suggest you buy yourself a Bible and learn of Him and who He is.
He knows your heart and He's drawing you toward Him.
~~D~~

bagofseed
Mar 6th 2009, 10:13 AM
The scripture also says that God gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him.

How so we obey Him?
By believing in the One whom He has sent (Jesus)

Trust Jesus!

Those who have the Spirit have the result or fruit of it:
Love
Joy
Peace
Patience
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Self Control

Against these things their is no law (no judgment)

StevenM
Mar 30th 2009, 01:23 AM
I have just found out that the Hebrew and Latin words for SPIRIT are the same for their words for BREATH, which makes sense to me because as the ancients would see a body shut down, the breathing would stop as well so they would think that a life force was contained in the breath. So is that the case? Are our spirits in our breath? What does that say about Christian smokers?

I was asked if I've ever seen the wind. Yes I have. There are cameras that can detect all of our atmosphere just as if it were an inky fluid and the way wind flows through it. Same thing with hot and cold, we can photograph that as well, but I've never seen anything that can detect a spirit.

I keep getting responses that I have to trust in Jesus, and then I will know that spirits are real, but how can I trust Jesus? Everything anyone knows about Jesus stems from the bible, and the bible just keeps giving me things that support the idea that all of this is superstition.

cdo
Apr 5th 2009, 08:52 PM
[quote]I have just found out that the Hebrew and Latin words for SPIRIT are the same for their words for BREATH, which makes sense to me because as the ancients would see a body shut down, the breathing would stop as well so they would think that a life force was contained in the breath. So is that the case? Are our spirits in our breath? What does that say about Christian smokers?

I was asked if I've ever seen the wind. Yes I have. There are cameras that can detect all of our atmosphere just as if it were an inky fluid and the way wind flows through it. Same thing with hot and cold, we can photograph that as well, but I've never seen anything that can detect a spirit.

I keep getting responses that I have to trust in Jesus, and then I will know that spirits are real, but how can I trust Jesus? Everything anyone knows about Jesus stems from the bible, and the bible just keeps giving me things that support the idea that all of this is superstition.[/quote[
Hi Stephen,I can't help you a lot but,I'll do my best.When God created 'Adam' He breathed life into him. Breath is Life! As for as seeing the wind in those terms.
I'm unfamiliar with that way. Wind in the Bible represents the Holy Spirit within us as for as allowing His Spirit to guide us in faith the way He wonts to lead us..knowing in faith to believe in what we can't see but,we believe.
You have to believe in Jesus in order to follow him and without that you'll never understand the Holy Spirit.He is not flesh and blood...He is Spirit.In order to know God's Spirit ...you must give your life over to Him and He freely gives you His Spirit to witness with yours."Abide in Me and I'll abide in you"He would be the Savior of your soul and all sins forgiven.
This is no superstition at all. The breath that you wake up every morning with is because of God.Superstition lies with Satan!
Hope this may help some.
~~Darlene~~

djh22
Apr 7th 2009, 09:03 PM
Hello stevenM,
I know how you feel but that's the human logic in you. All I can say is I've been studying scriptures for about 50 years now and the Bible doesn't cut it compared to some experiences I've had in life.
I hope this will help explain human spirit and God.
I lost my Dad to heart disease in my teens and a few years later lost my Mom to Cancer but even in death I still feel them close to me, I guess that's their spirit.
A few years ago one of my grandsons had Cancer and I saw who I believe to be an angel help heal him,
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=2013021#post2013021
I've also seen God in the brave faces of other children on Oncology wards as he fights the devil's work.
I've spoken to a young lady who escaped being run down by a car because she felt a hand on her shoulder pulling her back although nobody was there.
I'm sure that one day you will find your spirit and see God and his works,he is with you,it's just that you can't see it yet.

djh22.

StevenM
Apr 8th 2009, 07:46 AM
Our spirit is God's breath? Does God physically breath? This keeps making less sense to me.

Thanks to the last poster for sharing that personal experience. My Mom told me lots of stories about angels growing up, so according to her any close calls with disasters I had were a credit to my guardian angels for my safety, though I wasn't aware of them at all. I've always been a skeptic, but I would play along, and thank my guardian angels too. Then it began to feel like a lie to me, because I never did sense any angels anywhere, and my Mother's stories of my close calls became more grand in the retellings, and didn't resemble my memory of the situations at all by crediting angels.

I very well know what it feels like to be desperate and looking to anyone for hope in a situation where I feel powerless, and sometimes the slightest smile from a stranger, or anyone feels like a boost from a Saturn 5 rocket, which can power me through the worst times. It's as if that person knew exactly what I was going through in that moment, and if I ever saw that person again I would thank him or her for saving my life. I've actually thanked dozens of people for those small gestures in my life, and none of them ever remember what they did because it wasn't nearly as important to them as it was to me in those moments.

And if angels are to credit for getting people out of close calls, who is to credit or blame when disaster does strike? Do God's angels get overpowered or do they just not care sometimes, like the same percent of the time one would get by random chance? If the emergency plane landing on the Hudson river was a miracle and proof of God's intervention, what was the other fatal plane crash in New York a couple weeks later? Where were their angels while all those passengers were no doubt praying their hearts out? As an athiest I still have a lot of close calls like I did as a kid, and most days go absolutely swimmingly with no close calls at all, while disasters are striking Christians all over the world, so are the angels looking out for an athiest more than they would other Christians?

bagofseed
Apr 8th 2009, 07:55 AM
Regarding what is a Spirit all I can say is, God reveals mysteries to those who diligently seek.

But some times the answers are things that should not be spoken or are unspeakable.

Just the thought of such things God is willing to share with us blows my mind.

StevenM
Apr 8th 2009, 06:06 PM
I have been diligently seeking my whole life, and the mysteries that become ever more revealed to me are that there are no spirits. Why would the answers remain unsaid, or be unspeakable? What are these things that blow your mind? What does it mean to have your mind blown? Could it be that you're just confused?

Vhayes
Apr 8th 2009, 06:14 PM
Hi Stephen -

I'll share with you what I believe. I don't think it's the norm but you asked so I'll willingly share.

I think every created being, human and animal, is given the "breath" of God at birth. It is what I define as "life" or the core of what animates a being.

I also believe that is the first birth. When we become Christians, we have a second birth, or a "life" that is given to us (again by God) that is Spiritual and by it we have eternal life.

You say you do not believe in "spirits" - do you believe in the wind? You cannot see it but you acknowledge it as being real, do you not?

I hope this makes a bit of sense - if not, let me know and I will try to explain a bit better.
V

StevenM
Apr 8th 2009, 09:17 PM
That is the second time in this thread we've talked about seeing the wind. We can see the wind, we can also see hot and cold. I mentioned earlier that there are cameras that can detect our invisible atmosphere as if it were an inky fluid, it's called Schlieren Photography. It's brilliant and beautiful and there are dozens of youtube videos of schlieren photography showing the air disturbences and wind reacting to our movements and radiation. No spirits have shown up in any photographs ever, they've all been hoaxes or misunderstandings. So I have every reason to believe in hot and cold and wind, but so far I have no reason to believe in spirits. I remain open to anyone who has any evidence for it, but so far everything I've seen has far more sensible explanations.

Dani H
Apr 9th 2009, 03:39 AM
That is the second time in this thread we've talked about seeing the wind. We can see the wind, we can also see hot and cold. I mentioned earlier that there are cameras that can detect our invisible atmosphere as if it were an inky fluid, it's called Schlieren Photography. It's brilliant and beautiful and there are dozens of youtube videos of schlieren photography showing the air disturbences and wind reacting to our movements and radiation. No spirits have shown up in any photographs ever, they've all been hoaxes or misunderstandings. So I have every reason to believe in hot and cold and wind, but so far I have no reason to believe in spirits. I remain open to anyone who has any evidence for it, but so far everything I've seen has far more sensible explanations.

So you then have a special "tool" (Schlieren Photography) that enables you to "see" the wind, right? Without such things, you'd only be able to feel it and see the effects of it (leaves rustling, trees bending and so forth).

Like you know radio waves are real because when you tune in your radio to them, all of a sudden poof there's channels, when with your physical senses and without that radio being able to pick up the wave lengths, you're completely oblivious to them, yet there they are, all over the place.

It's the same way with our spirits. Until they're alive to God and "attuned" to spiritual reality, we're obvlivious to it. :)

bagofseed
Apr 9th 2009, 10:46 AM
Might I suggest the book entitled "Miracles" by C.S. Louis.

StevenM
Apr 11th 2009, 05:28 PM
So how does someone make their spirit alive and attuned to god? I'm pretty sure I've tried everything, I started another thread here called, "Is There a Proper Way to Pray?" Wouldn't 27 years of asking and praying for some kind of sign of God's existence be enough for God to hear those requests, and respond with some kind of sign? And it's not that I don't want to believe in God or spirits as a number of people on the Apologetics threads here have assumed of atheists, because there are hundreds of things I don't want to believe but I know to be true because of the evidence. Same as all the things that I do want to be true but I know aren't, because there is no evidence, or they defy the laws of the universe. It's not because I choose not to believe in spirits, or that I don't want to believe in spirits, it's because there is no evidence or reason to do so.

My Mother is a fan of C.S. Lewis, I read the Screwtape Letters when I was a teenager, and I've flipped through some of his other stuff. I probably have a copy of Miracles at the Used Bookstore I work at. I'll check it out.

Dani H
Apr 11th 2009, 06:36 PM
It's not a matter of God existing or not existing.

It's a matter of God only speaking to us through His Son, Jesus Christ, the only way to the Father.

God has already revealed Himself through His creation, all we have to do is open our eyes.

What will you do with Jesus, that's the question. Because you must be born again.

StevenM
Apr 11th 2009, 07:34 PM
I talked about that too, in my "Is there a Proper way to Pray?" thread. I've tried living with that idea that Jesus is the son of God and I'm saved through my love for him. But it's not something that can co-exist with me in my head or heart for long. I can't love something that I don't understand. I talk about that in my thread too, "Loving the Unknowable" How can I open my heart to something I can't even percieve?

Dani H
Apr 11th 2009, 10:44 PM
Nobody is saved by loving Jesus. We're saved by placing our faith in Him and entering into His finished work where He took not only the punishment for our sin upon Himself, but also our slavery to it. He undid what Adam caused, and so we can enter into that and have a relationship with God as it was meant from the beginning, not as lowly worms but the pinnacle of His creation, walking in fellowship with Him.

I would concur that you can't love the unknown, because love by definition requires a concrete object, not a figment of somebody's imagination. Otherwise that's not love, it's delusion.

But you can place your faith in a real Savior who did a real thing at a real point in history and who remains because He didn't stay dead but is alive, now and forever. We all have faith, in ourselves, and in other people, and in lots of other things. If you think about it, I'm pretty sure you can tell me exactly where your faith currently is. :)

Have you read the Gospel of John? I haven't read your other threads and I don't want you to have to be redundant and make your same statements once again for my sake.

Walstib
Apr 14th 2009, 07:02 PM
Hi StevenM,

I am coming into the conversation late here. I had a friend suggest I stop by. I can identify with much of what you are staying.

I was wondering something after reading through. I used to believe we were all just worm food after we die and there was nothing spiritual. Is this where you at at right now?

Do you see anything greater than just the physical to our self? Like our thought life being greater than just braincells.

How was your day today? :)

Peace,
Joe

StevenM
Apr 23rd 2009, 01:43 AM
I can't really put my faith in the unknown, anymore than I can love the unknown. Frankly Jesus and God are completely unknown to me. Even if Jesus was a real historical figure, I see no reason to reason to put my faith in him, because I don't believe or disagree with a lot of the stuff he did in the bible. And if he actually resurrected and is alive somewhere today, I still can't put my faith in him, because I can't sense him anywhere. It depends on how someone would define faith whether or not I have faith in anything. Some people would define faith as synonymous with trust. Other people would define it as trusting in something beyond any doubts, in which case I don't have faith in my life. I do trust things in my life, and I do have beliefs, but I'd be willing to be proven wrong about any one of the things I have trust in, or beliefs in, I have doubts about everything. I think that's the definition of Open-Mindedness. I'm always willing to be wrong. Which I'm perfectly comfortable with because the things I have great doubts in aren't a big part of my life, but with the major things in my life my trust far outweighs my doubts. My doubts are like a safty net, which have protected me over the years. I have trust in my doubts, but I also have doubt about my doubts. I can't think of anything that I have 100% trust in, the closest thing would be my family, but even they would rather I think for myself because they don't know everything anymore than I do, and they value my input in things. So again if faith is defined as 100% trust, then I don't have faith in anything in my life, which is the only way I would have it, because it keeps my brain active.

I haven't read the entire gospel of John. I've read the entire Thomas Jefferson edition of the New Testament, where he cut out most of of the supernatural stuff, but even in that case I couldn't believe it because Jesus still talked about God, and I don't really believe in God. I've tried reading the bible many different times under many different mindsets, and I've given up each time for different reasons, it was either dissappointing, infuriating, or plain nonsense. I don't know how anybody ever in history could read the bible, and it made sense, and they agreed with it all the way through. When I read something I pause now and again, and reflect on what I've read so far and try to really understand it. A lot of times I have to consult different things to make sure I fully grasp it. I don't think I'll ever be able to read the entire bible at the pace I read stuff, in trying to fully understand it. The first time I tried to read the bible was as a kid, because I had always liked the Noah's Arc story, I thought it was an awesome adventure story, and I fantasized about it a lot, and drew pictures about it. So I wanted to read that part so I could get all the details about how it went down, because I had a lot of questions about how it could work, it seemed impossible to me even then, but I figured the bible was a huge book and would have all those details. So my Mom pointed me to the Noah's Arc part of the bible which was hugely dissappointing to me, it read like an incomplete synopsis of a story, not even an outline. I kept thinking, "Woah, woah! They're skipping over so many details!" and before I knew it it was over. Every time I've ever read the bible has been like that.

I don't think I'll just turn into worm food when I die, some of my minerals may serve as plant food too, unless I fall off a boat and serve simply as shark food. I don't know what will happen to my concousness after I die, but my best guess, based on everything I've come to understand about the way the world really works, is that it is physically based as well, and will shut down and scatter along with the rest of my physical form.

I think life is much much greater than just brain cells though. My feet are a part of my life as well as my brain cells. My feet are fantastic! As is the rest of my life! I love my life, I love the world. I love the mystery and the puzzles of it all. I don't pretend to understand it all, I don't think anyone understands it all, which is why I ask questions to those who claim to understand a bit more of it than I do, like you folks.

kricaud
Apr 23rd 2009, 12:57 PM
I will pray for you to be filled with the strength of the Holy Spirit so that God's word may become known to you as the truth and that your heart and ears are opened and revealed to Jesus' love for you.

Have an awesome day and know that people will pray for your salvation.

StevenM
May 19th 2009, 04:35 PM
I'm curious if anyone here has had any personal experience with spirits. One person so far has shared a story about an angel which I enjoyed reading. Are the beliefs of ghosts and hauntings compatable with Christian beliefs? Has anyone here ever seen a ghost? What exactly do they look like?

My Mother believes in ghosts. She visited a Civil War battlefield in Fredricksburg, Virginia and was sure a ghost of a lonely young Confederate soldier who missed his mother came up to her. My Mom said she could sense him and picture him clearly in her mind, but didn't actually see him with her eyes. She's also had conversations with the ghosts of her parents. I told her I personally think she imagined all of it, but that I respect her beliefs.

Kudo Shinichi
Mar 11th 2010, 03:01 AM
Animals do not have a spirit. When they die, there is nothing after. In this way, man is unique. God breathed life into Adam, not Fido.
Man is unique cause GOD created us to speak, with feelings, with inventive & inquisitive mind which continue to discover. Spiritual aspect is with Holy Spirit & human soul.