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Partaker of Christ
Mar 9th 2009, 12:07 AM
Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

How do you read this verse to mean?

For me, It would indicate a great economic woe. The world will be greatly effected by this, but not the oil and the wine. I don't think it will mean that we have plenty, but that we will be sustained, and have sufficient for the day. We will have the peace, strength and joy of the Lord, and not worry about tomorrow.

vinsight4u8
Mar 9th 2009, 12:16 AM
Go looking at what Zechariah wrote to us about black horses. (Zec. 6)

black horses

that went to the north country

land of the Euphrates River
\Babylon

So - only a ruler in Iraq can ride the horses.

the famine - the time of being beseiged is to take place in the land of Iraq.

the hurt not the oil and the wine part
-reveals that God will not let it fall - but will raise the nation back up - and the stranger shall no longer eat your food.

hurt not - as in destroy not the oil and the wine
shows prosperity will return
to Iraq

rom826
Mar 9th 2009, 03:04 AM
Go looking at what Zechariah wrote to us about black horses. (Zec. 6)

black horses

that went to the north country

land of the Euphrates River
\Babylon

So - only a ruler in Iraq can ride the horses.

the famine - the time of being beseiged is to take place in the land of Iraq.

the hurt not the oil and the wine part
-reveals that God will not let it fall - but will raise the nation back up - and the stranger shall no longer eat your food.

hurt not - as in destroy not the oil and the wine
shows prosperity will return
to Iraq

Your post seems to think this will affect only Iraq and not the whole world. Am I mis-reading you or is that what you are saying.

wildfire
Mar 9th 2009, 03:17 AM
The oil and the wine are symbolic of the holy spirit and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

dan
Mar 9th 2009, 10:05 AM
Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

How do you read this verse to mean?

For me, It would indicate a great economic woe. The world will be greatly effected by this, but not the oil and the wine. I don't think it will mean that we have plenty, but that we will be sustained, and have sufficient for the day. We will have the peace, strength and joy of the Lord, and not worry about tomorrow.

...That it may be meant for Christians that do not wish to offend God's Will in Isaiah:

IS 65:11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
IS 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

Therefore, do not furnish a drink offering, I believe that could be oil or wine, or set a table for anyone that does not know the name of God's Mountain. For Christians the name of God's Mountain is "Agar".

vinsight4u8
Mar 9th 2009, 11:55 AM
Your post seems to think this will affect only Iraq and not the whole world. Am I mis-reading you or is that what you are saying.

Yes, to a point. The words in Rev. 6 (3rd seal) are spoken as to the nation of Iraq. Just as in Isaiah 65:8 the message is as to raising back up Israel after she has been invaded.


Isaiah 65:8

"Thus saith the LORD,..."


"And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say...

5:6
"...in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb..."

--------Isaiah 65:8
"Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not..."
as in - hurt it not
hurt not the wine

"...so will I do for my servants' sakes that I may not destroy them all."


In the case of the seals:
God had told Moses about a sealed up prophecy for the end times - back in Deuteronomy 32. Moses foretold of a nation that would be the enemy of Israel. It would be a foolish nation and anger Israel. Romans foretells of this prophecy as being still yet to come.


The Lord speaks as to the rise and fall of nations. In the 3rd seal we are being shown that Iraq will come back strong.
In the 4th seal - the wickedest of the heathen will be sent against Israel, and Israel will get scattered by this beast king with many ways to slay her.

In Zechariah chapter 5, we ended with a prophecy that was in the future. One day - at the appointed time - Shinar must get rebuilt.
It has to be established.
To establish a nation - takes the white horse rider to be a leader of wisdom and understanding (if he gets a crown given to him) as in the first seal.
Since the horses (white and black) went to the land of Iraq - then only Iraq can put a rider on those horses.

Brother Mark
Mar 9th 2009, 02:24 PM
Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

How do you read this verse to mean?

For me, It would indicate a great economic woe. The world will be greatly effected by this, but not the oil and the wine. I don't think it will mean that we have plenty, but that we will be sustained, and have sufficient for the day. We will have the peace, strength and joy of the Lord, and not worry about tomorrow.

I think it means that during the famine, the rich will be fine. The famine will be one that the poor experience because of the oppression of the rich.

ross3421
Mar 9th 2009, 11:11 PM
To understand the "Oil" and "Wine" we look to the OT and it's relationship to Israel not gentiles. Joel gives us a great understanding why the oil and the wine was not to be hurt ....

it was to be offered to the King, In the case of Rev to the AC....

Joel gives us to understand that these two items along with others, were being used as offerings and God comes and destroys it all.

Joe 1:9The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests, the LORD'S ministers, mourn.

Joe 1:10The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.

Joe 1:11Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.

Joe 1:12The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.

Joe 1:13Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.

Joe 1:14Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD.

Joe 1:15Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.


Also many others scriptures show these two items used as offerings.

Mark.

third hero
Mar 9th 2009, 11:54 PM
Revelation 6:5-6

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Being the spoiled sport that I am, I tend to not look at other scriptures when I was trying to figure out a riddle that is found in Revelation unless there are key phrases that cause me to look at other scripture.

There are no other scriptures that talk about sparing oil and wine. So, looking at other scriptures will end up being fruitless, in my opinion.

So, let's look at the riddle itself.

-The black horse has a scale.
-Wheat and barley are measured
-the third beast tells the rider of the black horse not to harm the oil or wine

Since the wheat and barley are mentioned here, I have to consider the possibility that those things are what the black horse is to harm. Interestingly enough, the beast orders the black horse NOT to harm oil or the wine. So, I asked the question, "what can harm wheat and barley without harming oil and wine"?

Here is my answer.

First, we need to understand that oil back in those days were made from olives. Wine, as we all should know, is made from grapes, unless the Lord is near a wedding with His mom Mary. From my research, both of these crops grow on vines and grow better in drier weather. Wheat and Barley, on the other hand, will whither and dry out if they are planted in areas that have droughts.

With all of this in mind, I figured that the rider on the Black Horse is, in fact, famine. Famine harms wheat, Barley, and almost every other crop except for olives and grapes.

As far as what the oil and wine means, they are clues that we need to understand what the black horse is and the rider's mission.

wombat
Mar 10th 2009, 12:26 AM
Since the wheat and barley are mentioned here, I have to consider the possibility that those things are what the black horse is to harm. Interestingly enough, the beast orders the black horse NOT to harm oil or the wine. So, I asked the question, "what can harm wheat and barley without harming oil and wine"? Here is my answer.
First, we need to understand that oil back in those days were made from olives. Wine, as we all should know, is made from grapes, unless the Lord is near a wedding with His mom Mary. From my research, both of these crops grow on vines and grow better in drier weather. Wheat and Barley, on the other hand, will whither and dry out if they are planted in areas that have droughts. With all of this in mind, I figured that the rider on the Black Horse is, in fact, famine. Famine harms wheat, Barley, and almost every other crop except for olives and grapes.
Hi, Third Hero! I have heard something interesting recently that I'd like to add regarding the dramatic losses in our bee populations of last year. Olive trees and grapevines are not pollinated by bees, from what I heard--I'm not an olive and grape expert myself, so this would need to be confirmed by someone who knows these plants well. But I found that to be very interesting, since bees are so important to our crops for producing food. Could it be that their loss will cause certain crops to be scarce, while olive trees and grapevines survive?

Partaker of Christ
Mar 10th 2009, 12:45 AM
Hi, Third Hero! I have heard something interesting recently that I'd like to add regarding the dramatic losses in our bee populations of last year. Olive trees and grapevines are not pollinated by bees, from what I heard--I'm not an olive and grape expert myself, so this would need to be confirmed by someone who knows these plants well. But I found that to be very interesting, since bees are so important to our crops for producing food. Could it be that their loss will cause certain crops to be scarce, while olive trees and grapevines survive?

Hi wombat!

Here is a list for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated_by_bees

It seems they pollinate grapes

wombat
Mar 10th 2009, 02:10 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated_by_bees
It seems they pollinate grapes
Thanks for the link, Partaker of Christ! I noticed that in the column that says Pollinator Impact, it reads "0" by the grapes. So I am wondering if perhaps the bees do indeed pollinate grapes, but they are not a critical pollinator.

trance750
Mar 10th 2009, 06:09 AM
Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

How do you read this verse to mean?

For me, It would indicate a great economic woe. The world will be greatly effected by this, but not the oil and the wine. I don't think it will mean that we have plenty, but that we will be sustained, and have sufficient for the day. We will have the peace, strength and joy of the Lord, and not worry about tomorrow.


Basically here is what I take this to mean: There will be a great world-wide famine, and there will be food shortages, like never seen before. It will basically cost you your entire days' wages, just to buy enough food for the day.

The rich, however will hoard what food they can, and leave everybody else to just fend and scavange for themselves.

At least that's my personal take on it.

ross3421
Mar 11th 2009, 12:48 AM
Basically here is what I take this to mean: There will be a great world-wide famine, and there will be food shortages, like never seen before. It will basically cost you your entire days' wages, just to buy enough food for the day.



There will be a great famine to come upon the earth (Matt 24:7). Through this chaos Babylon will emerge which will have a king which will provide all your needs, including food.

What the first four seals are telling us is that food will not be in shortage rather food and the control thereof will be used to reward those which receive the king's mark and destroy those which do not.

Re 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Balances shows control and power.

Re 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Pennies show us that food will be practically free not that it will take a full days wage and there will be shortages. As I note wine and oil are used as worship instruments for towards the king.

Re 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
Re 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Here we see the control over the world and it's resources in action.



I know we have been taught these verses speak of a famine but in reality it is showing us that there will be one which will have rule and reign over the world and it's resources. It is a kingdom which will provide all riches... sound familiar? However it is a strong delusion.