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manichunter
Jun 2nd 2009, 08:33 PM
How do believers who believe that the Festivals are done away with and no longer to be memorialized reconcile the prophesies of Zechariah with their personal Christian belief systems.

Zechariah stated in chapter 6
11 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:11&sr=1&t=nas) "Take silver and gold, make an ornate crown and set it on the head of Joshua (Jesus in the Greek) the son of Jehozadak, the high priest. 12 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:12&sr=1&t=nas) "Then say to him, `Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the LORD. 13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:13&sr=1&t=nas) "Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices."

We know this to be Jesus building the Temple after He returns for a specific purspose that we forgot by our actions and pride...........

Then Zechariah states in chapter 14
9 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:9&sr=1&t=nas) And the LORD will be king R391 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R391) over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, R392 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R392) and His name the only one................
skip.......
16 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:16&sr=1&t=nas) Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go R407 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R407) up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast R408 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R408) of Booths. 17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:17&sr=1&t=nas) And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, R409 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R409) the LORD of hosts, there will be no R410 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R410) rain on them. 18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:18&sr=1&t=nas) If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague R411 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R411) with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:19&sr=1&t=nas) This will be the punishment F146 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#F146) of Egypt, and the punishment F146 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#F146) of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

Are the nations disrespecting the King now for not honoring His memorial holy day. Even worse, are believers not believing and doing the right things now. The truth of this prophesy is that what most considered annulled and cancelled, just so happens to show up again in all its significances. However, I must state the obvious, can this mean that it never was suppose to be subtracted from our belief and worship systems in the first place. It is obvious if Zechariah was indeed under the counsel of the Spirit, he was prophesying about a future event that effects all of mankind one day whether believer or not. Why is this date not relevent now to some Christians now, if it will be relevant again one day. I think Yahweh changes not is the answer...............

HisLeast
Jun 2nd 2009, 08:58 PM
Do we have to be full Jews or just Jew-ish?

(rimshot)

manichunter
Jun 2nd 2009, 09:19 PM
Do we have to be full Jews or just Jew-ish?

(rimshot)


Depends on how you define Israel........

In this verse in addition to Israel, God mentions the nations, Egyptians, and etc all require to do the same thing or be punished.

I define Israel as anyone who has entered the Kingdom of God through Jesus as a new citizen of a Spiritual Kingdom.

Besides it was God who gave the name in the first place, and He can give it to anyone else. It is the meaning of the name that is relevant, not the people who claim the name. The name means in its long definition- a royal prince that has power and rules with God. This matches my description of what a saint is. As Paul says, not all that claim to be Israel are of Israel.

-SEEKING-
Jun 2nd 2009, 09:47 PM
The Old Testament is great reading. But in Jesus is all we need.

markedward
Jun 2nd 2009, 11:13 PM
We know this to be Jesus building the Temple after He returns for a specific purspose that we forgot by our actions and pride...........Before the thousand years, Jesus called himself the new temple, indicating that he would replace the then-standing temple. During the thousand years, Jesus is not once depicted as presiding over a temple building. In the new heavens and new earth, Jesus is called our temple, nullifying the purpose or need for a temple building.

So if Jesus is consistently called our temple, taking place of the temple building, and since the book of Hebrews directly shows that the one perfect sacrifice (Christ's sacrifice) would put a permanent end to the repeated temple sacrifices (which did indeed happen), and Revelation directly states that there would be no future temple... why is it believed that Jesus will build and preside over a temple building with sacrifices?

manichunter
Jun 3rd 2009, 02:00 AM
Before the thousand years, Jesus called himself the new temple, indicating that he would replace the then-standing temple. During the thousand years, Jesus is not once depicted as presiding over a temple building. In the new heavens and new earth, Jesus is called our temple, nullifying the purpose or need for a temple building.

So if Jesus is consistently called our temple, taking place of the temple building, and since the book of Hebrews directly shows that the one perfect sacrifice (Christ's sacrifice) would put a permanent end to the repeated temple sacrifices (which did indeed happen), and Revelation directly states that there would be no future temple... why is it believed that Jesus will build and preside over a temple building with sacrifices?

Not according to the text I read. Even in Zech. it alludes to a physical temple where the king reigns. It make a distinction in the two.

12 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:12&sr=1&t=nas) "Then say to him, `Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Behold, a man whose name is Branch, R142 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en#R142) F37 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en#F37) for He will branch R143 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en#R143) F38 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en#F38) out from where He is; and He will build R144 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en#R144) the temple of the LORD. 13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:13&sr=1&t=nas) "Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear R145 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en#R145) the honor and sit and rule R146 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en#R146) on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest R147 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en#R147) on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices.

Nah, this says that Jesus will build the temple and reign in it.

Re 21:22 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=re+21:22&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
This passage here is post 1,000 reign...............

crossnote
Jun 3rd 2009, 05:07 AM
Manichunter, I don't know about Zechariah's passage but I nearly broke my monitor trying to smash your 'bug' avatar.

manichunter
Jun 3rd 2009, 05:49 AM
Manichunter, I don't know about Zechariah's passage but I nearly broke my monitor trying to smash your 'bug' avatar.

Your kidding right. :lol:. It is meant for humour not destruction.

Jesusinter
Jun 3rd 2009, 03:35 PM
Manichunter, I don't know about Zechariah's passage but I nearly broke my monitor trying to smash your 'bug' avatar.

I had to clean my screen because of my fingerprints trying to squash the bug on my screen.

John146
Jun 3rd 2009, 09:05 PM
How do believers who believe that the Festivals are done away with and no longer to be memorialized reconcile the prophesies of Zechariah with their personal Christian belief systems.

Zechariah stated in chapter 6
11 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:11&sr=1&t=nas) "Take silver and gold, make an ornate crown and set it on the head of Joshua (Jesus in the Greek) the son of Jehozadak, the high priest. 12 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:12&sr=1&t=nas) "Then say to him, `Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the LORD. 13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:13&sr=1&t=nas) "Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices."

We know this to be Jesus building the Temple after He returns for a specific purspose that we forgot by our actions and pride...........I don't believe that is speaking of Jesus building a physical temple after He returns. He has been building the temple of God, the church, for a long time.

Ephesians 2
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


Then Zechariah states in chapter 14
9 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:9&sr=1&t=nas) And the LORD will be king R391 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R391) over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, R392 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R392) and His name the only one................
skip.......
16 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:16&sr=1&t=nas) Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go R407 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R407) up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast R408 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R408) of Booths. 17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:17&sr=1&t=nas) And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, R409 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R409) the LORD of hosts, there will be no R410 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R410) rain on them. 18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:18&sr=1&t=nas) If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague R411 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R411) with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:19&sr=1&t=nas) This will be the punishment F146 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#F146) of Egypt, and the punishment F146 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#F146) of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

Are the nations disrespecting the King now for not honoring His memorial holy day. Even worse, are believers not believing and doing the right things now. The truth of this prophesy is that what most considered annulled and cancelled, just so happens to show up again in all its significances. However, I must state the obvious, can this mean that it never was suppose to be subtracted from our belief and worship systems in the first place. It is obvious if Zechariah was indeed under the counsel of the Spirit, he was prophesying about a future event that effects all of mankind one day whether believer or not. Why is this date not relevent now to some Christians now, if it will be relevant again one day. I think Yahweh changes not is the answer...............What did Jesus say about how we are to worship from now on?

John 4
19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

ZAB
Jun 4th 2009, 08:10 PM
How do believers who believe that the Festivals are done away with and no longer to be memorialized reconcile the prophesies of Zechariah with their personal Christian belief systems.


Simply put, we cannot interpret the New Testament with the Old. Rather, we are to interpret the Old Testament with the New.

slightlypuzzled
Jun 4th 2009, 08:19 PM
How do believers who believe that the Festivals are done away with and no longer to be memorialized reconcile the prophesies of Zechariah with their personal Christian belief systems.

Zechariah stated in chapter 6
11 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:11&sr=1&t=nas) "Take silver and gold, make an ornate crown and set it on the head of Joshua (Jesus in the Greek) the son of Jehozadak, the high priest. 12 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:12&sr=1&t=nas) "Then say to him, `Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the LORD. 13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+6:13&sr=1&t=nas) "Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices."

We know this to be Jesus building the Temple after He returns for a specific purspose that we forgot by our actions and pride...........

Then Zechariah states in chapter 14
9 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:9&sr=1&t=nas) And the LORD will be king R391 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R391) over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, R392 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R392) and His name the only one................
skip.......
16 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:16&sr=1&t=nas) Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go R407 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R407) up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast R408 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R408) of Booths. 17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:17&sr=1&t=nas) And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, R409 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R409) the LORD of hosts, there will be no R410 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R410) rain on them. 18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:18&sr=1&t=nas) If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague R411 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#R411) with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=zec+14:19&sr=1&t=nas) This will be the punishment F146 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#F146) of Egypt, and the punishment F146 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=Zechariah+14&section=0&translation=nas&oq=zec%25206&new=1&nb=zec&ng=6&ncc=6#F146) of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

Are the nations disrespecting the King now for not honoring His memorial holy day. Even worse, are believers not believing and doing the right things now. The truth of this prophesy is that what most considered annulled and cancelled, just so happens to show up again in all its significances. However, I must state the obvious, can this mean that it never was suppose to be subtracted from our belief and worship systems in the first place. It is obvious if Zechariah was indeed under the counsel of the Spirit, he was prophesying about a future event that effects all of mankind one day whether believer or not. Why is this date not relevent now to some Christians now, if it will be relevant again one day. I think Yahweh changes not is the answer...............

I can see part of this fulfilled, if Jesus Christ was to fulfill it, in what Paul tells us in Ephesians 1:

20which He brought about in Christ, when He (BG)raised Him from the dead and (BH)seated Him at His right hand in (BI)the heavenly places,

21far above (BJ)all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every (BK)name that is named, not only in (BL)this age but also in the one to come.

22And He (BM)put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as (BN)head over all things to the church,

23which is His (BO)body, the (BP)fullness of Him who (BQ)fills (BR)all in all.

Jesus now rules .......

Slug1
Jun 4th 2009, 08:21 PM
Since manichunter is now removed from this site all his threads are closed.