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Simple Man
Jun 28th 2009, 03:47 PM
I have been laying off asking this question. Why? I don't know. I guess because I should know the answer. But I don't. So I'll ask.

Last Sunday night, I was lying awake thinking about a sickness I had some years back. By all opinions I shouldn't have survived, But by God's Grace I did. I was wondering why He had given me another chance, and thanking Him all at the same time. Just a lot of thoughts about Christ and his love for us.

As I was pondering all of this, all at once a thought popped into my mind. More like someone or something was asking me a direct question.

It said, "WHY would anyone even want to go to Heaven. All you will be doing is Worshiping God all the time".

This really made me a little uneasy, as I have never had anything such as this happen before.

I know Satan tempts us every chance he gets, But does he so blatantly speak to us to try to get us to turn from God?

Anyway that is the question I had. If it don't belong here feel free to move it. I have been wondering about it though. Any guidance would be appreciated. Now, I'm almost an old man so don't beat me up too bad.:)

Simple.

Walstib
Jun 28th 2009, 05:02 PM
Hi Simple,

Welcome!

Here is a few passages that came to mind.


For this reason, when I could endure it no longer, I also sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter might have tempted you, and our labor would be in vain. But now that Timothy has come to us from you, and has brought us good news of your faith and love, and that you always think kindly of us, longing to see us just as we also long to see you, for this reason, brethren, in all our distress and affliction we were comforted about you through your faith; for now we really live, if you stand firm in the Lord. For what thanks can we render to God for you in return for all the joy with which we rejoice before our God on your account, as we night and day keep praying most earnestly that we may see your face, and may complete what is lacking in your faith? Now may our God and Father Himself and Jesus our Lord direct our way to you; and may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you; so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints. (1Th 3:5-13 NASB)

Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. (Eph 6:14-16 NASB)I figure demons may be the ones poking at our flesh more often than Satan himself. My answer to you question would be that it is at least possible. :) I'm not really answering your question though... need to think more..

M&M
Jun 28th 2009, 07:28 PM
I know Satan tempts us every chance he gets, But does he so blatantly speak to us to try to get us to turn from God?


Yes! I think he is usually more subtle. But at times he is very much "in your face" with his assaults.

Remember that he cannot read our minds, but he can make educated guesses about our mental and spiritual well being by the things we are saying and doing. He is sly and cunning and will use his best weapons against us.

He may have used this bold tactic hoping it would take you so by surprise that you would focus on him instead of on Godly things.

kenramse
Jun 29th 2009, 01:19 AM
Yes! I think he is usually more subtle. But at times he is very much "in your face" with his assaults.

Remember that he cannot read our minds, but he can make educated guesses about our mental and spiritual well being by the things we are saying and doing. He is sly and cunning and will use his best weapons against us.

He may have used this bold tactic hoping it would take you so by surprise that you would focus on him instead of on Godly things.

My brother, I do feel that you underestimate the power of the evil one.

You have stated "Remember that he can not read our minds," Unfortunately that is not the case. Otherwise God would not warn us to put on the helmet of salvation as part of our Spiritual Armor.

Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

It is not without note that we are are instructed to wear all of the pieces of the armor together, being fully clothed upon ready for battle. Our minds are accessible not only through our thoughts, but through our senses. Because Satan can read our minds, he is able to interject disruptive thoughts and questions. He can lead us into temptation. He can deliver us to do evil.

For this reason also, the Spirit prays with out spirit.

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Simple Man
Jun 30th 2009, 05:01 AM
Thanks for the replies

Not sure that Satan can know someone's thoughts, but I do think he is able to read ones actions, listen in on conversations, etc.,and know when to inject doubts. I will have to read and think about that some more.

I am thinking that he is able to speak to us. Just by reading Genesus and the conversation with Eve.

3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any animal of the field which God had made. He said to the woman, "Has God really said, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden?'"

3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat,

3:3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'"

3:4 The serpent said to the woman, "You won't surely die,

3:5 for God knows that in the day you eat it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Satan, working through the serpent, was tempting Eve by communicating with her. If he could talk to Eve, wouldn't he be able to talk to us in this day? Would this be correct?

Tonton
Jun 30th 2009, 10:18 AM
...Not sure that Satan can know someone's thoughts, but I do think he is able to read ones actions, listen in on conversations, etc.,and know when to inject doubts. I will have to read and think about that some more.

Yes. He knows the nature of man in it's corrupted form, and his demons knows our personal weaknesses. I believe they throw temptations at us when and where possible, and their full-time job is to derail our spiritual progress.

Anton

Cliff H
Jun 30th 2009, 01:31 PM
Sin is the only tool that Satan has to use against us.

Walstib
Jun 30th 2009, 02:58 PM
I'm still trying to find some direct scriptural evidence of entering into thought life and not audible communication like Eve or Jesus in the wilderness.

There is certainly a lot of evidence we come up with this sort of thought from our connection to the fallen world through the flesh. Galatians 5 stuff.

I've been thinking that more often then not the enemy's fiery darts are thrown at the flesh, through circumstances and others, and we can take it from there without any more encouragement needed.


Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.(Jas 1:13-15 NASB)

I'm less and less sure these days evil beings enters our thought life as a norm. More like I should be taking responsibility and thankful for the forgiveness in the cross rather than divert the blame from my own shortfalls.

With recognition of what one is capable of comes the clearness to stand firm and deny the lust of the temptation.

For an example, I used to be an active thief. For slang I say it's "in me" to be a thief, I'm just going to go with how I see it. Any given day I may see something and my own covetousness and lust propagate desires of either having he item or the rush of getting away with something. Giving room for all sorts of thoughts and fantasy about the situation.

So I now live my life practicing resiting the temptation to steal and not letting the fantasy start in my thought life. Bringing the thoughts into captivity before they can give birth to sin.


For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete. You are looking at things as they are outwardly. If anyone is confident in himself that he is Christ's, let him consider this again within himself, that just as he is Christ's, so also are we. (2Co 10:3-7 NASB)

My point being attributing things to the enemy we ourselves are responsible for (I am the one who has the desire to steal) can be a diversion from getting to the "denying self" part of maturing.

All that said attributing things to self that of evil is just as dangerous or more. This is not a small topic. :)

theBelovedDisciple
Jun 30th 2009, 07:14 PM
Thanks for the replies

Not sure that Satan can know someone's thoughts, but I do think he is able to read ones actions, listen in on conversations, etc.,and know when to inject doubts. I will have to read and think about that some more.

I am thinking that he is able to speak to us. Just by reading Genesus and the conversation with Eve.

3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any animal of the field which God had made. He said to the woman, "Has God really said, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden?'"

3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat,

3:3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'"

3:4 The serpent said to the woman, "You won't surely die,

3:5 for God knows that in the day you eat it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Satan, working through the serpent, was tempting Eve by communicating with her. If he could talk to Eve, wouldn't he be able to talk to us in this day? Would this be correct?


Yes he can.. and today he doesn't use animals.. he could.. but he uses people.. the wicked, the unsaved, the 'tares', false christians, the 'bad seed' planted by the evil one....

these are led by the spirit of err.. controlled and manipulated by an evil spirit that at times will possess them and control them.. its called possession.. or as the Greek tells us.. at the point of full possession... the 'evil spirit' will be the one doing the talking and controlling...

exercised by a : devil, an evil spirit, supernatural evil spirit..

demonic possession has been set aside.. covered up.. classified and turned into some sore of psychology nomenclature.. this all done very craftily.. and with great fortitude by the evil one.. who does not want his true identity known... but those walking in Truth will see and discern him for who he is..

if you don't think the devil speaks.. Have the LORD take you thru a 'sifting' process... you will see and encounter the supernatural.. it is REAL and he is as real as the 5 fingers on your hand..

Simple Man
Jul 2nd 2009, 08:39 AM
I'm still trying to find some direct scriptural evidence of entering into thought life and not audible communication like Eve or Jesus in the wilderness.

If,
Satan, being a fallen angel and cast out of Heaven, Would he have had some of his "power"(if you will) removed? If not according to Matthew, an angel of the Lord has the ability to communicate to someone's thoughts. So shouldn't Satan be able to do the same?

Or did the Lord only allow this angel to enter into Joseph's dreams at the Lords will.

(From Matthew)
1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.






I'm less and less sure these days evil beings enters our thought life as a norm. More like I should be taking responsibility and thankful for the forgiveness in the cross rather than divert the blame from my own shortfalls.

With recognition of what one is capable of comes the clearness to stand firm and deny the lust of the temptation.

For an example, I used to be an active thief. For slang I say it's "in me" to be a thief, I'm just going to go with how I see it. Any given day I may see something and my own covetousness and lust propagate desires of either having he item or the rush of getting away with something. Giving room for all sorts of thoughts and fantasy about the situation.

So I now live my life practicing resiting the temptation to steal and not letting the fantasy start in my thought life. Bringing the thoughts into captivity before they can give birth to sin.


My point being attributing things to the enemy we ourselves are responsible for (I am the one who has the desire to steal) can be a diversion from getting to the "denying self" part of maturing.

All that said attributing things to self that of evil is just as dangerous or more. This is not a small topic. :)

I agree. From the time we are old enough to start understanding things around us, we are subjected to all sorts of evil thoughts and urges, as well good. Like the hard drive in a computer, they can be stored in the backs of our memory until something causes them to be recalled. So most of the time he just sits back and lets us do our own destruction, or lets his demons do the poking and dart throwing.

Or maybe not.:spin:

I'm not convinced that Satan can know our thoughts. If he could do this seems to me like he would be even more dangerous.

Anyway thanks for all of y'alls thoughts on this.

Simple

Walstib
Jul 2nd 2009, 01:51 PM
demonic possession has been set aside.. covered up.. classified and turned into some sore of psychology nomenclature.. this all done very craftily.. and with great fortitude by the evil one.. who does not want his true identity known... but those walking in Truth will see and discern him for who he is..

if you don't think the devil speaks.. Have the LORD take you thru a 'sifting' process... you will see and encounter the supernatural.. it is REAL and he is as real as the 5 fingers on your hand..

HI TBD,

I would be the last person to say the enemy is not on the attack with his messengers.

The context I have been approaching this is from the perspective of a regenerate, so unregenerate demonic possession was not on my radar.

The question remains is the scriptural evidence the thought life of a believer is entered. Not a dream or a vision, not through a possessed animal or person, but a very thought in our head.

Testimony and tradition of this is all over the place but is it actually backed up by scripture? Does it need to be?

In peace

doug3
Jul 4th 2009, 09:28 PM
My brother, I do feel that you underestimate the power of the evil one.

You have stated "Remember that he can not read our minds," Unfortunately that is not the case. Otherwise God would not warn us to put on the helmet of salvation as part of our Spiritual Armor.

Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

It is not without note that we are are instructed to wear all of the pieces of the armor together, being fully clothed upon ready for battle. Our minds are accessible not only through our thoughts, but through our senses. Because Satan can read our minds, he is able to interject disruptive thoughts and questions. He can lead us into temptation. He can deliver us to do evil.

For this reason also, the Spirit prays with out spirit.

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


There is abundant Scriptual evidence that satan and his demons can attack us by tempations and thoughts, and many here, including yourself, have presented it. However, I know of no scriptures that show that satan or his workers can read our minds although they can, as has been pointed out, work them out from our words and actions hence the exortations such as the one you quote from Ephesians 6.

“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” (2Ti 1:7 AV)


God bless

doug3

Walstib
Jul 4th 2009, 10:59 PM
Maybe I am just dull on this one, would not be the first time. :)

Where was the scripture that said his thoughts can be put into our mind?

Honestly..

Simple Man
Jul 6th 2009, 06:33 AM
Whether or not Satan can read our thoughts or minds, speak to us through dreams, cause one to hit their thumb with a hammer, or what ever way I don't think is that important.

I think the important thing to remember is one can follow CHRIST or they can follow Satan. If I am tempted by Satan then I have to turn my back on him and turn to CHRIST.

Maybe that is why there is no scripture concerning whether Satan can or cannot read minds or put his thoughts in our mind. Because it don't matter. As long as I turn away from the evil thoughts and temptations and follow Christ.

Or as Walstib said:
"Testimony and tradition of this is all over the place but is it actually backed up by scripture? Does it need to be?"

I personally don't think so.

Again, Thanks for all of your opinions.

Simple Man

Walstib
Jul 6th 2009, 11:19 AM
I agree with your sentiment there. :)

Considering our position in Christ, the intentions of our "heart thoughts" our much more important towards our relationship with God than any attack the enemy may throw at us. In victory we fight!




"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever. (1Ch 28:9 NASB)

Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts; And see if there be any hurtful way in me, And lead me in the everlasting way. (Psa 139:23-24 NASB)

Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. (1Jn 3:18-24 NASB)