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Jeffinator
Jun 29th 2009, 09:59 PM
This is a two part question:

First, in Genesis 3:16 God says, "I will surely multiply your pain in child bearing". If he is cursing the woman then why do most animals have to deal with it? And if it is because of the same reason of sin then how come in some animals like sea horses, the men give birth?

Secondly, in Genesis 3:14 God says to Satan who is in serpent form “On your belly you shall go and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.” So if this to explain why snakes have no legs than how do you explain all the other animals and insects with no legs?

tt1106
Jun 29th 2009, 10:21 PM
This is a two part question:

First, in Genesis 3:16 God says, "I will surely multiply your pain in child bearing". If he is cursing the woman then why do most animals have to deal with it? And if it is because of the same reason of sin then how come in some animals like sea horses, the men give birth?

Secondly, in Genesis 3:14 God says to Satan who is in serpent form “On your belly you shall go and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.” So if this to explain why snakes have no legs than how do you explain all the other animals and insects with no legs?

Do sea horses have pain in childbirth, too? They are mutually exclusive. God cursed the ground, so everything on the Earth is tainted.
There were other creatures created without legs.

crossnote
Jun 30th 2009, 03:26 AM
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
(Gen 1:25)

M&M
Jul 1st 2009, 02:52 PM
Romans 8:19-22 (Young's Literal Translation)

19 for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
20 for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject [it] -- in hope,
21 that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;
22 for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now.





All of creation has paid the price for Eve's deception and Adam's rebellion. :(

Daniel
May 28th 2010, 02:09 AM
Here is something that was pointed out in my SS class by our teacher a few weeks ago about this story that I never thought about before, and I thought it was sooo cool.

Eve was the first to sin by eating the forbidden fruit. Then she offers it to Adam. At this point Adam has a choice. He knows Eve is going to die for her sin. He can let her die alone while he lives forever with God. Or he can die also and stay with his bride, and maybe find a way to save her.

It is kind of a picture of Christ in that His bride, the Church, is doomed to die because of her sin. Christ had a choice. He could stay with the Father and let His bride die forever in sin. Or he could come to earth and give up His life and pay for the sins of His bride so that she might have Eternal Life.

newinchrist4now
May 28th 2010, 02:23 AM
This is a two part question:

First, in Genesis 3:16 God says, "I will surely multiply your pain in child bearing". If he is cursing the woman then why do most animals have to deal with it? And if it is because of the same reason of sin then how come in some animals like sea horses, the men give birth?

Secondly, in Genesis 3:14 God says to Satan who is in serpent form “On your belly you shall go and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.” So if this to explain why snakes have no legs than how do you explain all the other animals and insects with no legs?

I don't God created them that way. The serpent was not but he allowed satan to come in and so the serpent as a result had to crawl around, no more to walk around.

Sirus
May 28th 2010, 02:47 AM
First, in Genesis 3:16 God says, "I will surely multiply your pain in child bearing". If he is cursing the woman then why do most animals have to deal with it? And if it is because of the same reason of sin then how come in some animals like sea horses, the men give birth?This was for Eve only. Notice for Adam He said for your sake -ground cursed- but then with Noah (rest) we see the curse lifted. Nothing like that is said concerning Eve. The punishment was for her and her alone.

crossnote
May 28th 2010, 02:58 AM
If he is cursing the woman then why do most animals have to deal with it?

The subjects of a king fall when the king falls. Not only did the curse of pain in childbirth pass on to the animals but death itself. Here is a ray of hope for the creation.

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
(Rom 8:20-22)

Sirus
May 28th 2010, 03:04 AM
That says God subjected creation working all things for the purpose of his will. The fall is not found there. It must be assumed (bent) and almost always is.

Nomad
May 28th 2010, 11:53 AM
Hi Jeffinator,

Romans 8 couldn't be more clear. Those here who have pointed to it have hit the nail on the head. The entire created order has been subjected to futility and corruption through Adam's fall. I hope that helps.

markedward
May 28th 2010, 04:51 PM
Eve was the first to sin by eating the forbidden fruit. Then she offers it to Adam. At this point Adam has a choice. He knows Eve is going to die for her sin. He can let her die alone while he lives forever with God. Or he can die also and stay with his bride, and maybe find a way to save her.The Bible doesn't say Adam chose to eat the fruit "die also and stay with his bride, and maybe find a way to save her". This is un-Scriptural speculation.

jayne
May 28th 2010, 05:05 PM
Eve was the first to sin by eating the forbidden fruit. Then she offers it to Adam. At this point Adam has a choice. He knows Eve is going to die for her sin. He can let her die alone while he lives forever with God. Or he can die also and stay with his bride, and maybe find a way to save her.

It is kind of a picture of Christ in that His bride, the Church, is doomed to die because of her sin. Christ had a choice. He could stay with the Father and let His bride die forever in sin. Or he could come to earth and give up His life and pay for the sins of His bride so that she might have Eternal Life.

Hi, Daniel! I've heard this romanticized theory about Adam many times. And it just doesn't match up with what the Bible says. :hmm:

"And the serpent said to the woman, 'You shall not die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God knowing good and evil'. So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her and he ate." Genesis 3:4-6

The Bible says that Adam was "with her" when this happened. If he had wanted to save her, as you say, why didn't he get up and stop her or rebuke the serpent or cry out to God for help?

If Adam were this romance novel martyr (I don't know what else to call it, brother) who couldn't bear the thought of his wife suffering God's wrath all alone and sacrificing himself for her sake, then why did he throw her under the bus by blaming her and why did he tempt God's wrath, himself, by rebelliously blaming God for giving him Eve?

This romantically sacrificial and noble martyr-Adam does not match the Biblical-Adam who hid from God, blamed his wife, and most of all blamed God for his own wrong behavior.

I believe that Adam loved Eve. The Bible says that when he saw her he said, "At last! At last! Bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh!"

But even that cannot insinuate that Adam rebelled against God because he martyred himself for the woman he loved.

I don't mean to be disagreeable.

daughter
May 28th 2010, 06:03 PM
Although it's true that other animals suffer in childbirth, it's an absolute fact that human women suffer more than anyone else. I've read studies stating that labour lasts longer in humans, that blood pressure and heart rate increase more, and that women are more likely to tear, break their teeth (gritting them) hemorrhage to death than any other mammal.

I only gave birth once, and it still hurts... I cracked my coccyx when I was in labour, and bit my lip so hard I needed stitches. So... I think we got it pretty bad! I've delivered plenty of baby animals by the way, and while a sheep or dog can suffer a lot in labour, sometimes even die, I've never met or heard of one who was in labour for days on end. I do think that women got the curse worse than other mammals.

Sirus
May 29th 2010, 03:54 PM
Funny, the more I pick it apart the more it makes perfect sense. I believe it is supposed to. You don't. There are so many things to account for, time between writings, the men who held the pens, the translations from one language to another to another and so on... So factual. Without faith the bible makes sense.

BroRog
May 29th 2010, 06:22 PM
This is a two part question:

First, in Genesis 3:16 God says, "I will surely multiply your pain in child bearing". If he is cursing the woman then why do most animals have to deal with it? And if it is because of the same reason of sin then how come in some animals like sea horses, the men give birth?What hurt Eve more, the day she gave birth to Cain, or the day Cain killed Abel? I used to think God was talking about the physical pain associated with having a baby, but as I think about it more, I now think he was talking about the pain associated with rearing children who cause the woman anguish of the heart.

I don't have an answer to number two.