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firecracker070445
Jul 4th 2009, 02:44 PM
I thought that title might get your attention. It baffles me as to why most Christians don't pay attention to the whole Bible. Everyone knows about God's love and constantly talks about it. Everyone constantly talks about our need to love everyone. I want to know the REAL God. The COMPLETE God. I want to know and love EVERYTHING about Him. In Psalm 11:5-7 it says "The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates. Upon the wicked He will rain coals, fire and brimstone and a burning wood; This shall be the portion of their cup. For the Lord is righteous, He loves righteousness, His countenance beholds the up-right."In Psalm 69:22-28 David asks God to "add iniquity to their iniquity, and let them not come into Your righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous." In Psalm 139:19-22 David says "Oh, that you would slay the wicked, O God! Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men. For they speak against You wickedly; Your enemies take your name in vain. Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies." David was a man after God's own heart. God wrote these Psalms and He did not reprove David for saying these things. Some people might say that this is Old Testament. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. If you think the God of the New Testament is different than the God of the Old Testament then read Acts Acts 5:1-11 and Acts 12:20-25. I do not want to hate anybody and I don't look forward to the destruction of billions of people that is about to happen, but it IS going to happen. God says it will and IT WILL. I just want to love everything that God loves and I want to hate everything that God hates. I am trying to figure out how to love the wicked(Matthew 5:44) and hate them(Psalm 139:22 and Psalm 11:5) at the same time.

Vhayes
Jul 4th 2009, 02:52 PM
You love the sinner and pray for their eyes to be opened to the love of Christ and what He offers while at the same time hating the sin that they commit.

notuptome
Jul 4th 2009, 03:10 PM
If we could see people as God sees them we could love their soul and hate their sin. The word of God is a decerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb 4:12 Herein is love not that we loved Him but that He loved us and sent His son to be the propititation for our sins. 1 John 4:10 Gets even harder to do if you begin to see yourself as better than others. A pitfall of election or predestination misunderstood.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Elijah's Mantle
Jul 4th 2009, 03:11 PM
I thought that title might get your attention. It baffles me as to why most Christians don't pay attention to the whole Bible. Everyone knows about God's love and constantly talks about it. Everyone constantly talks about our need to love everyone. I want to know the REAL God. The COMPLETE God. I want to know and love EVERYTHING about Him. In Psalm 11:5-7 it says "The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates. Upon the wicked He will rain coals, fire and brimstone and a burning wood; This shall be the portion of their cup. For the Lord is righteous, He loves righteousness, His countenance beholds the up-right."In Psalm 69:22-28 David asks God to "add iniquity to their iniquity, and let them not come into Your righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous." In Psalm 139:19-22 David says "Oh, that you would slay the wicked, O God! Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men. For they speak against You wickedly; Your enemies take your name in vain. Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies." David was a man after God's own heart. God wrote these Psalms and He did not reprove David for saying these things. Some people might say that this is Old Testament. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. If you think the God of the New Testament is different than the God of the Old Testament then read Acts Acts 5:1-11 and Acts 12:20-25. I do not want to hate anybody and I don't look forward to the destruction of billions of people that is about to happen, but it IS going to happen. God says it will and IT WILL. I just want to love everything that God loves and I want to hate everything that God hates. am trying to figure out how to love the wicked(Matthew 5:44) and hate them(Psalm 139:22 and Psalm 11:5) at I the same time.

:hmm: hhm well that is a firecracker good question ,and good post BTW .

The way I figure it God knows Adam did something he was told "In the day you do u die"

It is appointed unto man to die but once (Physically)

God created originally that we were to walk with him in perfect dependence and obedience .

God wants none to perish ,yet knows many will because of their sin nature

:hmm: If your born (twice) u die once and it is only physically not spiritually . It is the spiritual life that is Important .Your spiritual breath of life will live eternally somewhere

I to some extent think :hmm: and this is just a opinion so dont try to cash it ok :lol:

Love and Hate holds hands and there is a very fine line between Love and Hate :idea:

that's why people in Love can talk like they hate each other one minute but be back together the next ;)

the spirit of eternal life will always hate evil and will seek just as King David did to go out and kill everything evil in his sight .Lets face it God was with David :pp

where as the spiritual dead will always be evil
until they are (born again) and God breathes NEW LIFE from his spirit into there soul :idea:

God does Love
God is Love
all who are born of the spirit breath of new life Loves what God loves and will hate what God hates


am trying to figure out how to love the wicked(Matthew 5:44) and hate them(Psalm 139:22 and Psalm 11:5) at I the same time.


:idea: Love and hate holds hands

It was never God who hated it was Satan and his rebellion that has Hated God :eek:

God hates the wicked and the deceived ones who are spiritually dead

yet he loved so much he gave his only begotten son

In the end God wins so you never have to fall under the subjection of a enemy that HATES :eek: and IS HATE ,that is what Satan is and it is Satan wanting to exalt himself above God that really wants to kill you
Hate it and know it is a enemy to be destroyed
satan knows sin will kill ,as sin does kill.

The one who over come sin will never be killed and we have life because he LIVES :pp

Love to hate the wicked that tries to exalt itself over God :pp your supposed to , because you can never serve truly but "ONE" master :) hope that helps

firecracker070445
Jul 4th 2009, 03:16 PM
This is my point. Everyone knows about the love of God and will always quote you verses that talk about that, but nobody wants to comment on verses like Psalm 11:5. Let me repeat it again. "But the wicked and the one who loves violence HIS SOUL HATES." Can I repeat it again. God's soul HATES the wicked. I am interested in the WHOLE counsel of God. How can we get to know the REAL God unless we ponder everything that God tells us about in His word?

jayne
Jul 4th 2009, 03:22 PM
Firecracker, you have brought up some great food for thought. I'm going to chew on this for a while, but I will give you someone else's answer.

***(These aren't my original thoughts. I read them somewhere.)

God loves perfectly - we can't. God also hates perfectly (without malice) - we can't.

God loves ALL people even though all people aren't going to Heaven. And His perfect love that sent His Son to die for the sins of the world does not interfere with His hatred of sin, abomination, and wickedness. He can do both at the same time.

We want to love with strings attached and hate with malice. God doesn't love and hate like that. So sometimes we have a hard time grasping the full meaning of loving and hating when they seem to contradict each other in the Bible.

And we must come to grips first with the fact that the Bible does not contradict itself before we dig deeply for it's higher meanings.

firecracker070445
Jul 4th 2009, 03:36 PM
Good reply Elijah. I believe that God's nature is to love and be love, but because He is righteous He hates wickedness and He hates sin. I believe that when we are told to love the wicked(Matthew 5:44) we are being told to exhibit love. We have no love in our natural self so we must exhibit the love of Christ. I don't believe that we are actually being told to "love" the wicked. We can't love what God hates. Psalm 11:5 says that God hates the wicked. I don't believe that God loves the wicked, but He is love and His nature is to give off love. When confronted by evil Jesus responded with love because it is His nature. He commands us to do the same and that will only happen when we are controlled by the Spirit. We "love" the wicked only in the sense that we show them God's love as our response to their wickedness. The time is coming when all that will change. God will show His other side(His righteousness and wrath) to the world as He destroys evil once and for all. God has given us instructions as to how to respond when that happens in Rev 18:20: "Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her." Vengence belongs to God and it is coming quickly. Our job in the meantime is to heap burning coals on the wicked by responding in love when being treated with wickedness. It doesn't mean we love them. It means we respond with love to show them God's nature.

threebigrocks
Jul 4th 2009, 04:04 PM
Simply, if God loves righteousness, He must hate unrighteousness. He is love and He is anger. That's the way He always has been and always will be.

watchinginawe
Jul 4th 2009, 04:23 PM
It baffles me as to why most Christians don't pay attention to the whole Bible. Everyone knows about God's love and constantly talks about it. Everyone constantly talks about our need to love everyone. I want to know the REAL God. The COMPLETE God. I want to know and love EVERYTHING about Him.
...
I just want to love everything that God loves and I want to hate everything that God hates.I'm not sure your desire is healthy. I think I understand the desire of wanting to know and love all aspects of God, but maybe we can't achieve that in this life.

Jesus instructs us about this, and probably directly addresses your scriptures regarding David:

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, ...

We don't don't know who God's enemy might be. I have problems at times at looking at David's life and understanding how he might have been a man after God's own heart. Maybe there is an element of how David hated the enemies of God, but David loved Saul and would not raise his hand against him, and he showed mercy to Saul's household all his years.

...bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Now that sounds exactly like David in the matter of Saul.

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I don't think we are going to find our perfection in trying to understand and love "God's hate" and trying to likewise "hate" with a Godly hate, at least in this world.

God Bless!

firecracker070445
Jul 4th 2009, 04:43 PM
God gave us His word. His entire word. I don't think that God gave us His entire word because He doesn't want us to understand everything in this life. We will not understand everything, but I want as much truth as I'm allowed to have. God put Psalm 11:5 and Psalm 139:22 in His word for a reason. If He wanted to hide His hatred of the wicked from us He would not have put it in there. I want to know everything about God that I can. I don't want to love a phoney God that is based on what man thinks is right and wrong. "My God would never do that" is what many people want to believe because it doesn't agree with their opinion of what God ought to be. If it's in God's word I want to know as much truth about what it's saying as I can possibly get. David did not love Saul. David loved Jonathan. David respected the authority of Saul because that authority came from God. David dared not touch the authority of God represented by Saul.(See Spiritual Authority by Watchman Nee). David could have wiped out Saul and seized the kingship, but he dared not because he knew he had to wait for God's timing. David completely understood the Lordship of God over his life and I believe that is one reason David was a man after God's own heart. David had complete faith in God's ability to take care of everything and always allowed God to work things out in His way and HIs timing.

threebigrocks
Jul 4th 2009, 05:10 PM
If David didn't love Saul in the way he should have, then why didn't he kill him the first chance he got? David left that moment to God to dictate, not him. If David hated Saul, truly hated him, then he was in sin.

You are right in that God does have more than a love side to Him. That is a fact. But for those in Christ, we don't fall under that condemnation any longer. We are called to be like Jesus, and when we dig down to the core of His very nature it is love. Even his righteous anger is rooted in love.

notuptome
Jul 4th 2009, 05:19 PM
God gave us His word. His entire word. I don't think that God gave us His entire word because He doesn't want us to understand everything in this life. We will not understand everything, but I want as much truth as I'm allowed to have. God put Psalm 11:5 and Psalm 139:22 in His word for a reason. If He wanted to hide His hatred of the wicked from us He would not have put it in there. I want to know everything about God that I can.
Then strive for purity and holiness in your life. Like Job eschew evil. 1 Thess 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. To hate perfectly you will need to learn to hate in the Lord. You cannot do that until you can love in the Lord them that hate you and dispitefully use you. Jesus from the cross said Father forgive them. Lay not this sin to their charge. Perhaps it is best to leave the hating to God.

I don't want to love a phoney God that is based on what man thinks is right and wrong. "My God would never do that" is what many people want to believe because it doesn't agree with their opinion of what God ought to be. If it's in God's word I want to know as much truth about what it's saying as I can possibly get.
A noble purpose but a difficult path to follow. By your very nature you are going to imply your own opinions or biases to how you perceive God. Let God be Who He is and endeavor to be conformed to the image of Christ. Rom 8:29

David completely understood the Lordship of God over his life and I believe that is one reason David was a man after God's own heart. David had complete faith in God's ability to take care of everything and always allowed God to work things out in His way and HIs timing.
Did that include David's sin with Bathsheba or David's plan resulting in the murder of her rightful husband?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

threebigrocks
Jul 4th 2009, 05:46 PM
Hebrews 10
28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY " And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



Deuteronomy 32
35'Vengeance is Mine, and retribution,
In due time their foot will slip;
For the day of their calamity is near,
And the impending things are hastening upon them.'

We need to understand that vengeance, wrath and judgment is not ours, but His. Vengeance is Mine, says the Lord.

We are simply commanded to love. He takes care of the rest. Doesn't mean that we ignore the fullness of His character and nature, but we need to know that our part isn't to hate or carry out what isn't ours to do.

Equipped_4_Love
Jul 4th 2009, 06:04 PM
This is my point. Everyone knows about the love of God and will always quote you verses that talk about that, but nobody wants to comment on verses like Psalm 11:5. Let me repeat it again. "But the wicked and the one who loves violence HIS SOUL HATES." Can I repeat it again. God's soul HATES the wicked. I am interested in the WHOLE counsel of God. How can we get to know the REAL God unless we ponder everything that God tells us about in His word?

Someone asked me the other day, if God is perfect, then how can He hate. I explained to him that God hates wickedness, violence, unrighteousness, etc. It is because he is perfect that He hates those things, and because He loves people so much that He hates so much that which destroys them.

What you must understand is that we are not perfect in righteousness as God is. If we were, then we would understand God's hatred, and also hate the things that God hates, like wickedness, etc. We simply can't understand it because we are not righteous as God is, but one day, we will:

I Cor. 13:12 For now we seein a mirror dimply, but then, face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I am known

We can't expect to completely understand God's hatred, but the Bible says that it is a perfect hatred. God hates those things that are contrary to His perfect nature, and this is part of what makes Him perfect.

We think of hatred in our own human terms....human hatred is imperfect, because we are imperfect. If God is perfect on every level, then it is impossible for Him to be imperfect, even in hatred.

watchinginawe
Jul 4th 2009, 06:07 PM
David did not love Saul. David loved Jonathan. David respected the authority of Saul because that authority came from God.Consider David's reaction to the death of Saul and Jonathan:

II Samuel 1:11 Then David took hold on his clothes, and rent them; and likewise all the men that were with him:

12 And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even, for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword.


Let us just say then that David didn't "hate" Saul, and didn't rejoice when Saul's persecution of David was "avenged" and David was made King. ;)

God Bless!

BroRog
Jul 4th 2009, 08:01 PM
It's important to remember that when the Bible speaks about God's love and his hate, it isn't talking about a feeling he has. Rather, God's love and hate are words to express how he treats people. When God "loves" you, he works everything to your good. But if God "hates" you, he works everything against you. He may feel love for everyone, but at the same time, he doesn't work to everyone's favor.

Elijah's Mantle
Jul 4th 2009, 09:13 PM
Good reply Elijah. I believe that God's nature is to love and be love, but because He is righteous He hates wickedness and He hates sin. I believe that when we are told to love the wicked(Matthew 5:44) we are being told to exhibit love. We have no love in our natural self so we must exhibit the love of Christ. I don't believe that we are actually being told to "love" the wicked. We can't love what God hates. Psalm 11:5 says that God hates the wicked. I don't believe that God loves the wicked, but He is love and His nature is to give off love. When confronted by evil Jesus responded with love because it is His nature. He commands us to do the same and that will only happen when we are controlled by the Spirit. We "love" the wicked only in the sense that we show them God's love as our response to their wickedness. The time is coming when all that will change. God will show His other side(His righteousness and wrath) to the world as He destroys evil once and for all. God has given us instructions as to how to respond when that happens in Rev 18:20: "Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her." Vengence belongs to God and it is coming quickly. Our job in the meantime is to heap burning coals on the wicked by responding in love when being treated with wickedness. It doesn't mean we love them. It means we respond with love to show them God's nature.

:idea: I was actually looking for them instructions firecracker070445 :pp

Yes I read them u mentioned , Revelations 18:20 and I agree this is scriptural .

I read vengeance belongs to God. I believe this yes, and pray that this Nation America wakes up to the realness of what God has forewarned . I think we will really see Judgment fall on America if they do the wrong thing regarding Israel :note: I pray that we never have to experience immediate repercussions due to what has already happened :eek: We were a blessed and strong Nation once with a constitution that was designed predominantly for and by Christians , and was in mind of having a Nation that remained predominantly Christian of course now that has all changed ;) along with Governing powers ,and now it is so far gone that Its as if it is nothing more than a Bludgeoned to death document .
God has no competitors or equals even though the AC will even rise up , God will eventually wipe out wicked and evil as he takes his vengeance and it is God's right to do so and it will be just the scriptures make that well said as I read about it more :hmm: Yes as Christians our Master teacher Jesus has showed through out to his disciples how to respond and so we can know by that ,that we are to put on Christ , which in meaning means we literally imitate him :saint: and emulate him and his ways in all our ways ,I read it and believe it ,this does and will heap coals of fire on the enemies heads

MarleVVLL
Jul 6th 2009, 05:22 AM
It is true that God hates the wicked; not just the sin, but the person themself. However, this 'holy hatred' is reconciled at the Cross, in that God so loved the world that He acted - and manifested His love for us (sinners) by giving us His Son to be brutally slaughtered for us.

It is a paradox that only makes sense at the Cross.

Firefighter
Jul 6th 2009, 12:14 PM
God does hate people, but not like you have read it to be. The word hate does not mean the same thing today as it did back then. Look it up, in the Hebrew it simply means "to have no regard for". Regard in this instance is best described as "a protective interest".