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studentoftruth
Aug 4th 2009, 11:13 PM
I have studied the Bible for about 17 years, and still don't know it all, and don't think any human should ever claim to. But one thing bothers me about what I've seen with my own research and what most Christian religions teach. Most fall into one of 2 categories, from my observance.

1. At the end of time God will take his people "home" or "to heaven" and the people left will burn forever in firey torment in hell and the earth will be destroyed.

2. Same as #1 only the earth isn't mentioned at all. I guess it just sits here for eternity serving no purpose.

Is one of these the belief of the particular Christian faith that this board represents? If so I have questions.

nzyr
Aug 5th 2009, 12:11 AM
I have studied the Bible for about 17 years, and still don't know it all, and don't think any human should ever claim to. But one thing bothers me about what I've seen with my own research and what most Christian religions teach. Most fall into one of 2 categories, from my observance.

1. At the end of time God will take his people "home" or "to heaven" and the people left will burn forever in firey torment in hell and the earth will be destroyed.

2. Same as #1 only the earth isn't mentioned at all. I guess it just sits here for eternity serving no purpose.

Is one of these the belief of the particular Christian faith that this board represents? If so I have questions.Revelation says the earth will be made new.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. -Revelation 21:1

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. -Revelation 21:5

Some Christians may have to go through the tribulation. And some may be martyred during it.

Beckrl
Aug 5th 2009, 12:18 AM
I have studied the Bible for about 17 years, and still don't know it all, and don't think any human should ever claim to. But one thing bothers me about what I've seen with my own research and what most Christian religions teach. Most fall into one of 2 categories, from my observance.

1. At the end of time God will take his people "home" or "to heaven" and the people left will burn forever in firey torment in hell and the earth will be destroyed.

2. Same as #1 only the earth isn't mentioned at all. I guess it just sits here for eternity serving no purpose.

Is one of these the belief of the particular Christian faith that this board represents? If so I have questions.

I'm not sure if I agree with either, What I see thought scripture is that the Earth will be transformed, that is with the fire. A new Earth and new Heaven.

Beck

Alaska
Aug 5th 2009, 12:41 AM
I'm not sure if I agree with either, What I see thought scripture is that the Earth will be transformed, that is with the fire. A new Earth and new Heaven.


I agree.
Read 2 Pet. 3 in the KJV and what you read is what reality is.
This earth will be dissolved burned up and pass away.
God will create a new heaven and earth, not just a new earth.
The burnt up earth is not the place of eternal fire in hell.
That place, where ever it is, is a spiritual place, (not physical as is our present reality) for the demons and the souls of men not saved.

sparrow hawk
Aug 5th 2009, 01:22 AM
This is so awesome.:pp

Revelation 21:1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away(παρέρχομαι); and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away(ἀπέρχομαι).



2 different Greek words were used by John for passed away.


παρέρχομαι - pass away, pass over, perish.

ἀπέρχομαι - go away, depart.

studentoftruth
Aug 5th 2009, 02:20 AM
OK. I didn't mean to make assumptions. Just throwing out what I've heard from local churches.

So, my first question is why make a new earth, transformed into a place without tears, death, sorrow, etc. if the future that we have to look to is only either heaven or hell based on how we live our lives?

sparrow hawk
Aug 5th 2009, 03:11 AM
OK. I didn't mean to make assumptions. Just throwing out what I've heard from local churches.

So, my first question is why make a new earth, transformed into a place without tears, death, sorrow, etc. if the future that we have to look to is only either heaven or hell based on how we live our lives?

The first Man Adam was never created to live in Heaven, he was created to to live on the Earth for all of eternity. Since the first Man Adam sinned, he destroyed the perfect eternal physics of the Universe, the Earth, and all of the life on Earth, including himself. The first Man Adam failed.

The second Man Adam, Jesus the Christ, succeeded in not falling into sin, and he will restore the Universe, the Earth, and all of it's life to eternal perfection, and he will reign as king with his bride(the church), for all of eternity over the nations.

Who exactly makes up the nations, not sure? The Bible is not 100% clear on who the nations are exactly, but they are not the bride of Christ, we know this for sure.

Johnboy
Aug 5th 2009, 07:37 AM
Revelation says the earth will be made new.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. -Revelation 21:1

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. -Revelation 21:5

Some Christians may have to go through the tribulation. And some may be martyred during it.
This is talking about political heavens and earth not literal

nzyr
Aug 5th 2009, 03:54 PM
This is talking about political heavens and earth not literalPolitical heavens? What does that mean?

matthew94
Aug 5th 2009, 04:02 PM
Christianity doesn't teach that we will live forever in heaven. The true destination for God's people is the New Earth. We won't exist as mere spirits in a spiritual realm, we will exist with resurrected bodies on actual ground. Heaven, as the term is usually used, is only the intermediate state (the place of the righteous between their death and judgment day). Whether the New Earth is a totally new planet starting from scratch or a transformation of the current planet is debated, but I think the latter. God is in the business of redeeming things.

studentoftruth
Aug 5th 2009, 10:11 PM
It seems like no one has the same opinion on this.

Clearly everyone can not be right, and God can't approve of all these different ideas. The Bible is harmonious from beginning to end, and so should be the people who claim to follow it. There can only be one truth, and an honest Christian should want to know it and be meek enough to let it shape his/her way of thinking.

I agree that we were made to live on earth, because the Bible tells us that in Genesis.
Where does Heaven being a holding place come from?

Put away what you think you know and look at the following scriptures with an open honest mind in your own Bible, with your own eyes.

Who will live on the new earth is very clear in the Bible in Psalm 37. Vs. 10,11, and 29 specifically. Meekness, and righteousness are shown by the ones who will inherit the land. These qualities are not valued by wicked people. Instead haughtiness and a self serving attitude are. One group is destroyed, and the other inherits the land. Plain and simple.

nzyr
Aug 5th 2009, 10:27 PM
Christianity doesn't teach that we will live forever in heaven. The true destination for God's people is the New Earth. We won't exist as mere spirits in a spiritual realm, we will exist with resurrected bodies on actual ground. Heaven, as the term is usually used, is only the intermediate state (the place of the righteous between their death and judgment day). Whether the New Earth is a totally new planet starting from scratch or a transformation of the current planet is debated, but I think the latter. God is in the business of redeeming things.I don't believe that's what is taught in the bible.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. -John 14:2-3

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. -2 Corinthians 5:1

I believe resurrected people will be able to go back and forth between heaven and earth. Just like the angels on Jacob's ladder.

studentoftruth
Aug 5th 2009, 11:32 PM
nzyr, for what purpose? In the beginning there is no mention, that I am aware of, of Adam and Eve going back and forth. They were able to talk to God without any travel.

God never told the couple that they would live for a short while and then go to Heaven, either. Disobedience would result in death, but no limit otherwise was placed on the length of life on earth as long as they didn't sin.

There can be no reason for God to change His purpose for mankind just because 2 humans wouldn't obey, and made a mess of our lives.

Please, read for yourself and see.

Psalm 37. Matthew 6. Revelation 21. All good examples of the future that Christians are promised.

nzyr
Aug 6th 2009, 03:14 AM
nzyr, for what purpose? In the beginning there is no mention, that I am aware of, of Adam and Eve going back and forth. They were able to talk to God without any travel.
The new Jerusalem is sort of like heaven on earth. Or heaven and earth becoming joined. Also Elijah went up into heaven in a chariot of fire. He also appeared with Jesus on the mountain top.

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: -Ephesians 1:1-10

sparrow hawk
Aug 6th 2009, 03:24 AM
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. -John 14:2-3


the "mansions" in John 14 are not giant houses.

mansions = μονή = monē

1) a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode
2) to make an (one's) abode
3) metaph. of the God the Holy Spirit indwelling believers

nzyr
Aug 6th 2009, 06:06 AM
the "mansions" in John 14 are not giant houses.

mansions = μονή = monē

1) a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode
2) to make an (one's) abode
3) metaph. of the God the Holy Spirit indwelling believersWhere is Jesus right now? Heaven.
That's where he is preparing a place for us.