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The Mighty Sword
Sep 18th 2009, 04:11 PM
Job 1:6-9
6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.

John 8:44
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



Revelation 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

I know there are folks out there who can aswer this question for I think about it often, My question concerning scriptures is:

Why does GOD give satan audience if he is the father of all lies and the accuser of the brethren???

ZAB
Sep 18th 2009, 04:54 PM
I know there are folks out there who can aswer this question for I think about it often, My question concerning scriptures is:

Why does GOD give satan audience if he is the father of all lies and the accuser of the brethren.

Because Satan is nothing more than a tool in the hand of God (Job 26:13):

Heb 5:8-9 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

Suffering and glory come hand in hand (1 Pet 5:10).


Z.

theBelovedDisciple
Sep 18th 2009, 05:54 PM
Because Satan is nothing more than a tool in the hand of God (Job 26:13):

Heb 5:8-9 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

Suffering and glory come hand in hand (1 Pet 5:10).


Z.


Yes well put.. and this is what I've been taught..

Suffering First.. then 'Glory' to follow...

as evident in the Life of Jesus the Christ......

the Scripture Declares it from the Book of Genesis to the last Book.. the Revelation of Jesus the Christ

The Mighty Sword
Sep 18th 2009, 05:57 PM
Yes well put.. and this is what I've been taught..

Suffering First.. then 'Glory' to follow...

as evident in the Life of Jesus the Christ......

the Scripture Declares it from the Book of Genesis to the last Book.. the Revelation of Jesus the Christ


Thank you,
I'm aware of the Job factor, but It doesn't answer why GOD even listerns to satan, or did I miss something?

theBelovedDisciple
Sep 18th 2009, 06:09 PM
Thank you,
I'm aware of the Job factor, but It doesn't answer why GOD even listerns to satan, or did I miss something?


Because He is Just and Soveriegn... and satan is a tool.. he truly is...

at the Final Judgement... why does God listen to the wicked who plead with Him.. right before the Judge declares His Sentence upon them..

many will be claiming they did this and that for Him and In His Name...

God Listens to their pleading and gnashing of teeth... but He declares His Final Sentence upon them... AFTER....

He could just resurrect them and send them to the Lake of Fire.. without a chance to make their case ....... but He doesnt'..... He listens and looks in the Lamb's Book of Life.. then after all is done.. then the Lamb (judge) renders His Verdict..

He does this because He is 100% Just and Soveriegn...

the Closer you get to Jesus the Christ...

the more you will understand and realize Just How Soveriegn He really is...

Have a Great Weekend!

The Mighty Sword
Sep 18th 2009, 06:13 PM
Because He is Just and Soveriegn... and satan is a tool.. he truly is...

at the Final Judgement... why does God listen to the wicked who plead with Him.. right before the Judge declares His Sentence upon them..

many will be claiming they did this and that for Him and In His Name...

God Listens to their pleading and gnashing of teeth... but He declares His Final Sentence upon them... AFTER....

He could just resurrect them and send them to the Lake of Fire.. without a chance to make their case ....... but He doesnt'..... He listens and looks in the Lamb's Book of Life.. then after all is done.. then the Lamb (judge) renders His Verdict..

He does this because He is 100% Just and Soveriegn...

the Closer you get to Jesus the Christ...

the more you will understand and realize Just How Soveriegn He really is...

Have a Great Weekend!


I understand GOD soveriegnty, but satan is still a liar. Thanks

You have a blessed weekend as well.

ZAB
Sep 18th 2009, 06:15 PM
I understand GOD soveriegnty, but satan is still a liar. Thanks

You have a blessed weekend as well.

In reality, Satan uses half-truths. Since Jesus is the WORD incarnate, He is able to rightly discern (Heb 4:12), and maintain His justice.

Z.

The Mighty Sword
Sep 18th 2009, 06:19 PM
In reality, Satan uses half-truths. Since Jesus is the WORD incarnate, He is able to rightly discern (Heb 4:12), and maintain His justice.

Z.


I get that I really do, let me rephase it,

Would you let an arsonist work making matches?

Partaker of Christ
Sep 18th 2009, 07:38 PM
I don't think Satan would/could lie to God, as he would know how futile that would be.

The Mighty Sword
Sep 18th 2009, 07:44 PM
I don't think Satan would/could lie to God, as he would know how futile that would be.


Accusser of the brethren, father of all lies. that's pretty clear.

Partaker of Christ
Sep 18th 2009, 11:50 PM
Accusser of the brethren, father of all lie. that's pretty clear.

Sorry, but I thought you said as to why God would listen to him.

The Mighty Sword
Sep 19th 2009, 02:01 AM
Sorry, but I thought you said as to why God would listen to him.


Exactly, why would he listen.

Partaker of Christ
Sep 20th 2009, 07:06 PM
Exactly, why would he listen.

Sorry, I am not trying to be awkward, but just trying to understand your question.

Are you saying (or suggesting) that the accusations, are false lying accusations, and so, why would God listen to him?

The Mighty Sword
Sep 21st 2009, 03:41 PM
Sorry, I am not trying to be awkward, but just trying to understand your question.

Are you saying (or suggesting) that the accusations, are false lying accusations, and so, why would God listen to him?


Yes. If he came to kill, steal and destroy? what kind of credibility can he have, It would be like have a mudrerer, a thief and an arsonist goin before a jugde everyday blaming everything on everyone and the jugde knows full well he's a liar. It's just not registering with me.

ZAB
Sep 21st 2009, 04:36 PM
Yes. If he came to kill, steal and destroy? what kind of credibility can he have, It would be like have a mudrerer, a thief and an arsonist goin before a jugde everyday blaming everything on everyone and the jugde knows full well he's a liar. It's just not registering with me.

It isn't like the Lord relies upon Satan to give Him an accurate account of our lives; He already knows every detail. The very hairs on our heads are numbered. Satan's credibility, therefore, is insignificant. I think Job's account was simply to show that Satan is full of accusation and strife.

Z.

The Mighty Sword
Sep 21st 2009, 04:44 PM
It isn't like the Lord relies upon Satan to give Him an accurate account of our lives; He already knows every detail. The very hairs on our heads are numbered. Satan's credibility, therefore, is insignificant. I think Job's account was simply to show that Satan is full of accusation and strife.

Z.


Understandable.
Then let's go from Job to Revelation.

Revelation 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

He was the accuser then and is still the accuser today. Why the audience?

ZAB
Sep 21st 2009, 06:57 PM
Understandable.
Then let's go from Job to Revelation.

Revelation 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

He was the accuser then and is still the accuser today. Why the audience?

Yes, he is and was the accuser. He has an audience simply because he is able to roam to and fro, upon the earth and into the presence of God (Job 1:6-7; 2:2; 1 Pet 5:8; Matt 12:43). The fact that he has an "audience" does not mean that the audience believes his accusations.

Z.

The Mighty Sword
Sep 21st 2009, 07:13 PM
Yes, he is and was the accuser. He has an audience simply because he is able to roam to and fro, upon the earth and into the presence of God (Job 1:6-7; 2:2; 1 Pet 5:8; Matt 12:43). The fact that he has an "audience" does not mean that the audience believes his accusations.

Z.


I have come to the simple conclusion that it cannot be answered. Thank you.

Bladers
Sep 21st 2009, 07:29 PM
I have come to the simple conclusion that it cannot be answered. Thank you.

Let me ask you this, Why did Jesus give Satan audience to tempt him in the wilderness since he was a liar and a deceiver?

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

BroRog
Sep 21st 2009, 07:36 PM
I don't think Satan lies all the time. That is, I don't think he simply and mechanically says the exact opposite of what is true every time he speaks. Sometimes when he accuses the brethren he is correct in his accusations.

The Mighty Sword
Sep 21st 2009, 07:46 PM
Let me ask you this, Why did Jesus give Satan audience to tempt him in the wilderness since he was a liar and a deceiver?

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


"Why did Jesus give Satan audience?"

Isn't Jesus God?

So it would be like asking, why dose GOD give satan audience.

Are you saing GOD allows satan to tempt him? Because that's what I'm getting out of it.

BroRog
Sep 21st 2009, 10:00 PM
"Why did Jesus give Satan audience?"

Isn't Jesus God?

So it would be like asking, why dose GOD give satan audience.

Are you saing GOD allows satan to tempt him? Because that's what I'm getting out of it.

Jesus is God, but while he walked the earth, he obeyed his heavenly father. It was the Spirit of God that led him into the desert to be tempted.

The word "temptation" translates the same Greek root word as "test." The idea of the "test" comes from the military and is used to describe when some group, either friend or foe tests our armies defenses. When God tests us, the purpose of the test is for us to find out where our defenses are weak. But Satan tests us to take advantage of our vulnerabilities and weaknesses in order to destroy us.

When God tests us the Bible translates the word as "test", but when Satan tests us, the Bible translates the word as "tempt." The process might be the same but the purpose and the goal is different.

theBelovedDisciple
Sep 21st 2009, 10:16 PM
why do you think God shouldn't give Him audience?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

satan,
believes he's God, wants to be God, desires worship and converts like True Christianity and the True God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, believes one day he will usurp God and exalt his throne above the Throne of God...

in his pride he is decieved.. and it blinds him...

God has nothing to prove to him.. as He created Him..

but just like in a court of Law... both sides have their opportunity to present their cases..

by allowing him 'air time'.. or the role of prosecuter... Jesus Christ the Advocate General for His Children.. Pure and Undefiled.. His Blood Covering His Children when satan comes before Him.. wanting retaliation because of their mistakes...

God allows him his air time..

but God in His Justice and because He is Sovereign allows satan to bring his 'case' before God...

God steps in as the Intermediary.. this Jesus the Christ... as He says 'no' to satan when he brings railing accusations against the Elect of God... God in His Justice...(Jesus the Christ) who is the Pure Justice of God.. says 'no' to him.. because His Elect believe in Him and On Him and what He has done on that bloody tree..

this scenario should even cement more the Foundation that is in Jesus the Christ.. and His Completed and Perfect work at Golgotha.. when a person grasps the reality that goes on between the accuser of the brethern who wants to be like 'God'.. and the Only True God.. Jesus the Christ God manifest in the flesh.. then one can understand the animosity there is between the accuser and his Creator.... without Christ's Complete and Perfect work.. we would be hopeless and damned.. but Praise be His Name.. for what He Has Done...

God has nothing to prove to him.. but by allowing him air time.. God has the final say.. making it clear without a doubt who is in charge and who the Real God is... and who the imposter is... and I firmly believe satan himself walks away furious and enraged..filled with fury and rage because he has been 'stifled' by the True God of the Bible... the True God who created him..

he truly is a 'tool'... blinded and decieved by his own spiritual pride.. the sin that had him cast out of Paradise.......

but there is a time when he will not be allowed to do that.. he will be put away.. his eternal state, the lake of fire..

as we get closer to that point.. we will see more and more of his deception.. he will become like a rabid wolf, cornered and caged... he knowing that his time is short.. yet because of his sinful pride.. still believing that he can usurp God and His Throne...

he will decieve the whole world into believing 'they' can Heaven on earth without Heaven Returning with the King of kings and LORD of lords leading the charge as written in Revelation... he will lead them into believing they can become their 'own' little gods... or 'little 'jesus's'... this just like the deception that was in the Garden.. that big bite of fruit... this the 'Lie'.. that will bring upon this planet the Wrath of God... His Judgement upon a planet that Has Rejected Him and believed 'salvation' and the issues of it.. belong with man.. man becoming his/her own 'god'....

this time coming when God will put AWAY all His enemies... and the last enemy do be put away will be 'death' itself..

death will have its habitation with satan, the angels that followed him along with the wicked.. whose names were not found in the Lamb's Book of Life... all these in the Lake of Fire...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Praise God for what He has Done on that Bloody Tree!!!!

for without it.. we would still be lost.. and without Jesus the Christ coming out of the Tomb.. our faith is in Vain..

but He is Alive Today.. I 'know' beyond a shadow of a doubt.. He is Alive today..

When He said it... and verily I tell you today.. Its True..

'It is Finished'

It was...Complete.. the Plan.. from the Foundation of the World...


Praise His Holy Name.. and thank you for what You have Done!!!

amen and amen..

timmyb
Sep 21st 2009, 10:19 PM
well since Satan is the ruler and prince over the earth (albeit unfortunately) he has to go before God to request permission to persecute the brethren... and according to 2 Corinthians 4 God allows affliction of the saints to bring them into an eternal weight of glory... Job's suffering was to magnify God. God listens to Satan to control him otherwise Satan would have free reign over the earth, man gave him that legal right, but because of the presence of the praying church his authority is somewhat limited and so in order to harm those who belong to God legally, he has to talk to God.

so God listens to Satan in order to control him

but that's my opinion

Timmy

The Mighty Sword
Sep 21st 2009, 10:33 PM
well since Satan is the ruler and prince over the earth (albeit unfortunately) he has to go before God to request permission to persecute the brethren... and according to 2 Corinthians 4 God allows affliction of the saints to bring them into an eternal weight of glory... Job's suffering was to magnify God. God listens to Satan to control him otherwise Satan would have free reign over the earth, man gave him that legal right, but because of the presence of the praying church his authority is somewhat limited and so in order to harm those who belong to God legally, he has to talk to God.

so God listens to Satan in order to control him

but that's my opinion

Timmy


That was good, I'm sold thank you. :)

The Mighty Sword
Sep 21st 2009, 10:35 PM
why do you think God shouldn't give Him audience?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

satan,
believes he's God, wants to be God, desires worship and converts like True Christianity and the True God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, believes one day he will usurp God and exalt his throne above the Throne of God...

in his pride he is decieved.. and it blinds him...

God has nothing to prove to him.. as He created Him..

but just like in a court of Law... both sides have their opportunity to present their cases..

by allowing him 'air time'.. or the role of prosecuter... Jesus Christ the Advocate General for His Children.. Pure and Undefiled.. His Blood Covering His Children when satan comes before Him.. wanting retaliation because of their mistakes...

God allows him his air time..

but God in His Justice and because He is Sovereign allows satan to bring his 'case' before God...

God steps in as the Intermediary.. this Jesus the Christ... as He says 'no' to satan when he brings railing accusations against the Elect of God... God in His Justice...(Jesus the Christ) who is the Pure Justice of God.. says 'no' to him.. because His Elect believe in Him and On Him and what He has done on that bloody tree..

this scenario should even cement more the Foundation that is in Jesus the Christ.. and His Completed and Perfect work at Golgotha.. when a person grasps the reality that goes on between the accuser of the brethern who wants to be like 'God'.. and the Only True God.. Jesus the Christ God manifest in the flesh.. then one can understand the animosity there is between the accuser and his Creator.... without Christ's Complete and Perfect work.. we would be hopeless and damned.. but Praise be His Name.. for what He Has Done...

God has nothing to prove to him.. but by allowing him air time.. God has the final say.. making it clear without a doubt who is in charge and who the Real God is... and who the imposter is... and I firmly believe satan himself walks away furious and enraged..filled with fury and rage because he has been 'stifled' by the True God of the Bible... the True God who created him..

he truly is a 'tool'... blinded and decieved by his own spiritual pride.. the sin that had him cast out of Paradise.......

but there is a time when he will not be allowed to do that.. he will be put away.. his eternal state, the lake of fire..

as we get closer to that point.. we will see more and more of his deception.. he will become like a rabid wolf, cornered and caged... he knowing that his time is short.. yet because of his sinful pride.. still believing that he can usurp God and His Throne...

he will decieve the whole world into believing 'they' can Heaven on earth without Heaven Returning with the King of kings and LORD of lords leading the charge as written in Revelation... he will lead them into believing they can become their 'own' little gods... or 'little 'jesus's'... this just like the deception that was in the Garden.. that big bite of fruit... this the 'Lie'.. that will bring upon this planet the Wrath of God... His Judgement upon a planet that Has Rejected Him and believed 'salvation' and the issues of it.. belong with man.. man becoming his/her own 'god'....

this time coming when God will put AWAY all His enemies... and the last enemy do be put away will be 'death' itself..

death will have its habitation with satan, the angels that followed him along with the wicked.. whose names were not found in the Lamb's Book of Life... all these in the Lake of Fire...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Praise God for what He has Done on that Bloody Tree!!!!

for without it.. we would still be lost.. and without Jesus the Christ coming out of the Tomb.. our faith is in Vain..

but He is Alive Today.. I 'know' beyond a shadow of a doubt.. He is Alive today..

When He said it... and verily I tell you today.. Its True..

'It is Finished'

It was...Complete.. the Plan.. from the Foundation of the World...


Praise His Holy Name.. and thank you for what You have Done!!!

amen and amen..


In think you got it. I knew a few of you had it in you. thank you. ;)

waslostnowfound
Sep 22nd 2009, 02:14 PM
Is it a possibility that the Scripture means that Satan is the accuser in the sense that he accuses us as sinners? Does he try to make us doubt ourselves and tell us that we aren't really saved and that the sin in our life can never be forgiven?

I agree that God gives him no credence, but we sure do! We seem to look for reasons as to why we are not good enough to deserve our salvation. Satan magnifies the sin in our own lives and tries to make us feel hopeless.

God doesn't listen to him but we do.

Does that make any sense?

God Bless!!!


Craig

The Mighty Sword
Sep 22nd 2009, 03:04 PM
Is it a possibility that the Scripture means that Satan is the accuser in the sense that he accuses us as sinners? Does he try to make us doubt ourselves and tell us that we aren't really saved and that the sin in our life can never be forgiven?

I agree that God gives him no credence, but we sure do! We seem to look for reasons as to why we are not good enough to deserve our salvation. Satan magnifies the sin in our own lives and tries to make us feel hopeless.

God doesn't listen to him but we do.

Does that make any sense?

God Bless!!!


Craig


Really good point, thanks.