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View Full Version : Question about life without death/new heaven-new earth



Gulah Papyrus
Sep 20th 2009, 02:08 PM
Does this mean we will no longer eat meat...or will we no longer eat period?

And what about accidental death.
Will we be able to fall 20 stories and not get injured?
Will we be able to stay under water as long as we want?
Will we be able to drive fast without hitting/killing any bugs?
Will there be no more autumns or winters, and will there be only
one spring...or will it just be one long perpetual spring?

It just seems like death is a very necessary part of life, and in many ways a very beautiful part of life.

Whadda ya think??:hmm:

It just seems that death is a very important aspect of life and

TrustingFollower
Sep 20th 2009, 09:16 PM
Death is a part of mortal life, but we will be part of immortal life.

nzyr
Sep 21st 2009, 01:42 AM
It just seems like death is a very necessary part of life, and in many ways a very beautiful part of life.

Whadda ya think??:hmm:

I don't think death is beautiful. And I don't believe God originally intended for man to die. Sin is what brought that about.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

Desperaux
Sep 21st 2009, 01:49 AM
What amazing questions!

I have a book I must recommend, called "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn. In it he answers all sorts of questions like that based on the Word. He doesn't include any fables or secular notions---simply the Word.

It is nice to have a book where all references of heaven that are marbled throughout the entire Scripture are brought out to one place to examine.

Gulah Papyrus
Sep 21st 2009, 10:45 PM
I don't think death is beautiful. And I don't believe God originally intended for man to die. Sin is what brought that about.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
How could He not have intended for man to sin when his entire 'plan' for us is centered on rebirth?

God can't be surprised so he must have known man would fall and therefore intended for it to happen...no?

Without death Jesus would not have been able to perform the most beautiful act of love ever when He sacrificed Himself for us sinners....right?:confused

Sirus
Sep 21st 2009, 11:09 PM
How could He not have intended for man to sin when his entire 'plan' for us is centered on rebirth?Jesus came as a man. Mortal, natural, corruptible, just like Adam. Unlike us He had the Spirit. He loved righteousness and hated iniquity for thirty years and was given the Spirit w/o measure (in full) and was seen glorified even before He died. This was the plan for Adam, but he sinned. The one man that death could not touch or hold willing chose to lay down His life for us.


God can't be surprised so he must have known man would fall and therefore intended for it to happen...no? His foreknowledge and providing the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world before man was created in no way implies He intended the first man sin. If true, you'd have to say He intended the second man sin.

Sirus
Sep 21st 2009, 11:16 PM
I don't think death is beautiful. And I don't believe God originally intended for man to die. Sin is what brought that about.Fall is a beautiful season :idea:

Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
The first man was natural. The natural came before the spiritual.
Adam was dying, needing the tree of life to live forever.
Thou shalt surely die in Hebrew is dying die or dying you will die.
When Adam sinned....no more tree. Death passes on all men.

Gulah Papyrus
Sep 21st 2009, 11:54 PM
Jesus came as a man. Mortal, natural, corruptible, just like Adam. Unlike us He had the Spirit. He loved righteousness and hated iniquity for thirty years and was given the Spirit w/o measure (in full) and was seen glorified even before He died. This was the plan for Adam, but he sinned. The one man that death could not touch or hold willing chose to lay down His life for us.

His foreknowledge and providing the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world before man was created in no way implies He intended the first man sin. If true, you'd have to say He intended the second man sin.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.(John 15:13)

Doesn't this mean that as far as human beings are concerned death is essential to ultimate love? Without death love would be short changed...correct?

Sirus
Sep 22nd 2009, 02:47 AM
I'm not really following you. Can you re-word it?

Gulah Papyrus
Sep 22nd 2009, 03:03 AM
not sure what I'm saying exactly...but it is along the lines of if it weren't for Adams sin and the death that followed, Christ wouldn't have had the opportunity to pay the ultimate price and basically define love in it's purest form by His sacrifice. It just seems like death must be part of the equation that defines love as in you can't have one without the other. Does that make any sense?:confused

Sirus
Sep 22nd 2009, 04:01 AM
I see what you're saying. Christ's ultimate sacrifice takes it to another level. It's mostly just a theological issue to say God intended sin. I think you can say He willed (allowed) it because it happened, but it was not His will. There's a difference. If God intended sin it was His will, and I just don't find that in scripture.

If Adam didn't sin I think one of his descendant would have, don't you? It's all speculation. It happened as it happened. God in His wisdom and foreknowledge made man and all that is his environment in such a way as to not intend sin but allow it, knowing what man would do, and still continued with the program instead of changing things so that man would not sin, which He certainly could have done. In this, the Lamb could be slain giving Him glory through love at a level that would not have been possible had he changed the program so that man would not sin. Make sense?

Sirus
Sep 22nd 2009, 04:16 AM
Does this mean we will no longer eat meat...or will we no longer eat period?Jesus said He would eat in the regeneration.


And what about accidental death.

Will we be able to fall 20 stories and not get injured?If Adam fell out of a tree and broke his neck would God not have raised him up? If he had been eating the tree of life wold his neck break or wouldn't it just healed? If Jesus casts Himself off the temple would the angels have allowed Him to get hurt?


Will we be able to stay under water as long as we want?Don't know.


Will we be able to drive fast without hitting/killing any bugs?I like this one because when I think of Adam in the garden did he not step on an crush any bugs? No bugs in the garden? Wha? They moved out of the way?


Will there be no more autumns or winters, and will there be only
one spring...or will it just be one long perpetual spring?When God started over and relieved man of the curse on the ground with Noah (Gen 5:29; 8:21) He said
Gen 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
So is that just this earth? renewed earth? New earth? A lot of theological questions have to be answered here.

Denny606
Sep 22nd 2009, 04:37 AM
I may be different than others ,but I think that God saw the end from the beginning and he forenew what would happen .I believe and I may be wrong but doesn't these passages from Genesis 2 say that the day that thou eat,not if thou eat
15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I 'll grant that some may read that if instead of when but to me he knows that Adam will eat and tells him he will surely die.
If God knows my thoughts from afar off,did he not know Adam's as well?,This is what I think I didn't say it was written in stone and I have been known to be wrong .And please don't hook me to the predestination wagon,because that is not what I am inferring.

Gulah Papyrus
Sep 22nd 2009, 05:35 AM
I see what you're saying. Christ's ultimate sacrifice takes it to another level. Yes, a level that could not be reached without having 'death' in the equation.



If Adam didn't sin I think one of his descendant would have, don't you? It's all speculation. It happened as it happened. God in His wisdom and foreknowledge made man and all that is his environment in such a way as to not intend sin but allow it, knowing what man would do, and still continued with the program instead of changing things so that man would not sin, which He certainly could have done. In this, the Lamb could be slain giving Him glory through love at a level that would not have been possible had he changed the program so that man would not sin. Make sense?Yes, it does make sense. So you agree that death, resulting from sin, was/is an absolutely necessary factor, a requirement if you will, that had to exist in order to achieve the greatest act of love, and therefore the greatest love 'period' known to spiritual man?

And if so, how can one not see the beauty in death when taking all things into consideration?

On another note, I have a grandmother who turned 98 last month, and whom I love very, very much. I know that it is just a matter of time before she goes home and when she does there will be a certain beauty in her passing....a cause for reflection, and celebration knowing that she has finally found true rest in Him...sure there will be tears, but not tears of misery, or even loss, but tears of joy and thankfulness and gratitude for the blessing she has been to me and my family. So I believe that death can be beautiful in many ways, especially when you know that it will be followed by, and lead into something exponentially beautiful that could not have been unless preceded by death.

Weird topic, just thinking out loud I guess, but thanks for your input...much appreciated, amigo.:)

Gulah Papyrus
Sep 22nd 2009, 05:45 AM
I may be different than others ,but I think that God saw the end from the beginning and he forenew what would happen .I believe and I may be wrong but doesn't these passages from Genesis 2 say that the day that thou eat,not if thou eat
15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I 'll grant that some may read that if instead of when but to me he knows that Adam will eat and tells him he will surely die.
If God knows my thoughts from afar off,did he not know Adam's as well?,This is what I think I didn't say it was written in stone and I have been known to be wrong .And please don't hook me to the predestination wagon,because that is not what I am inferring.

Interesting observation from Genesis 2...I've never read it that way. Thanks Denny.

Sirus
Sep 23rd 2009, 04:13 AM
Yes, it does make sense. So you agree that death, resulting from sin, was/is an absolutely necessary factor, a requirement if you will, that had to exist in order to achieve the greatest act of love, and therefore the greatest love 'period' known to spiritual man?Not necessary or a requirement, it's just what happened.
No one knows what would have happened otherwise.
For it to be necessary or a requirement means God would have made it happen. I don't believe that.