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ScottWoods
Oct 1st 2009, 10:12 PM
I was researching the "King of Tyre" passage (Ezekiel 28) and came across this interesting article (I'll paraphrase the important parts, you don't have to read it):

http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/Documents/Kingoftyre.html

I find the claim that Satan doesn't exist to be ridiculous, but it still made me think, as some of those points are valid.

But first, I'd like to know:

When is the first reference, however vague, to Satan, or a fallen angel or great tempter? (Excluding the Garden of Eden serpent)

Where in scripture do we find the story of Satan being cast out of Heaven?

Does God grant partial authority to Satan over the earth?


Now, what basis do we have for regarding Satan as omnipresent? We attribute all temptation to Satan, but why and how? If he is but an angel, he cannot be omnipresent, as angels can only be in one place at a time. Example from Dan.10:10-14, when the angel explains he was detained 21 days by the kings of Persia.

Only God is omnipresent, right? Or did He grant powers to Satan in order to tempt mankind?

Lots of questions, I know. Thanks in advance for the help

The Mighty Sword
Oct 1st 2009, 10:24 PM
Luke 10:18 Jesus said to the disciples

18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.



In Job 1:7 we see Satan entering God's presence in order to make accusations against Job:

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Revelation 12: 7-12 - "And war broke out in heaven: Mi′chael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time

The Nature of Satan?
Is evil.

Butch5
Oct 2nd 2009, 01:30 AM
I was researching the "King of Tyre" passage (Ezekiel 28) and came across this interesting article (I'll paraphrase the important parts, you don't have to read it):

http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/Documents/Kingoftyre.html

I find the claim that Satan doesn't exist to be ridiculous, but it still made me think, as some of those points are valid.

But first, I'd like to know:

When is the first reference, however vague, to Satan, or a fallen angel or great tempter? (Excluding the Garden of Eden serpent)

Where in scripture do we find the story of Satan being cast out of Heaven?

Does God grant partial authority to Satan over the earth?


Now, what basis do we have for regarding Satan as omnipresent? We attribute all temptation to Satan, but why and how? If he is but an angel, he cannot be omnipresent, as angels can only be in one place at a time. Example from Dan.10:10-14, when the angel explains he was detained 21 days by the kings of Persia.

Only God is omnipresent, right? Or did He grant powers to Satan in order to tempt mankind?

Lots of questions, I know. Thanks in advance for the help

1. I believe it was in Job.

2. Revelation

Revelation 12:6-11 ( KJV )
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

3. He is called the God of this world.

4. He is not omnipresent and He is not responsible for all temptation, James says,

James 1:14 ( KJV )
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

crossnote
Oct 2nd 2009, 03:53 AM
Just an interesting tidbit on the nature of satan.
The Greek word for demonic is also translated in Scripture as 'malicious gossips'.

Stormfreak1
Oct 2nd 2009, 05:56 AM
Satan= Adversary; accuser of the bretheren, murderer, father of lies, tempter, deceiver, and very strong.

Based on Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:16-19 (verses 16-19 seem to be describing something related to heaven, not an earthly king), James 3:13-18 along with descriptions of his activities in scripture (Genesis 3, Revelation 12 etc.

Satan's nature or "character" seems to be
1. the ultimate in selfishness and self-centered conceit. (my reading into Genesis 3-6 outlines the progression of sin from simple selfishness to murder and lawlessness.)

2. This is in deep contrast to descriptions of Jesus related to Psalm 45:1-7;John 13:1-8; Philippians 2:5-8 etc. Deep meekness, humility, and loyalty to Truth/righteousness no matter what (even unto the cross).

Hypothetical key accusation of satan against God:
"My self-centered wisdom is better than God's wisdom based on humility meekness, and righteousness in producing pleasure."

God confronted me with some of these scriptures- I still have a BIG problem: too much "wisdom of satan" operating in my heart. :help:

Humble
Oct 2nd 2009, 10:05 AM
Satan and his fall

Adam and Eve joining his fall

is central core teaching to understanding what is going on today!

If you can't understand God creates from perfection with free will given you can't understand the gift of Christ.

gringo300
Oct 5th 2009, 03:02 AM
One thing that needs to be understood is that some people who profess to be Satanists claim that they define Satan as a symbolic concept instead of as a literal spiritual being.

I think the Bible quite clearly defines Satan as a literal spiritual being.

ScottWoods
Oct 5th 2009, 04:12 AM
3. He is called the God of this world.

4. He is not omnipresent and He is not responsible for all temptation, James says,

James 1:14 ( KJV )
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Where is it said he is the "God of this world"? And if he isn't omnipresent, how could be hold such a title? Is God/the Holy Spirit not the God of this world?

theBelovedDisciple
Oct 5th 2009, 09:11 PM
Where is it said he is the "God of this world"? And if he isn't omnipresent, how could be hold such a title? Is God/the Holy Spirit not the God of this world?

Paul referred to him as the 'god of this world' when writing under the inspriation of the Holy Ghost... he pointed out that it was the 'god of this world', satan who has blinded the minds of the lost. those who are perishing.. the unsaved... these are led by the spirit of disobedience... whose source is satan himself

satan blinds unbelievers, he cunningly hides the Truth and the Reality and the simplicity of the Gospel from these... 'if our Gospel be 'hid'....
satan spues lies, he spues half truths, he'll twist the word to decieve and pervert... those who are Jesus's.. will not be ignorant of his devices and his wiles... he is a cunning creature.. whose desire is to be worshipped as 'god' and he desires that...

Jesus referred to satan, the devil, as the prince of this world.. just prior to being betrayed... that hour of darkness.. which was Judas's hour ... and satan was judged when Jesus went to the Cross.. for He defeated him who had the power of death by His Own Physcial death on the bloody Tree... It is Accomplished! His Judgement was at the Cross.. and satan's eternal state will be the Lake of Fire.. which is prepared for him and the angels that followed him in the rebellion at the beginning...

It only God who can remove those 'blinders' from the lost.. this thru the Work of the HOly Ghost as He draws the sinner in and reveals Jesus to the Lost sinner.. turning that Sinner to his/her knees at the Revelation of God's Goodness in their lives and the revelation of what Jesus has done for them....

satan is not omnipresent as he is not 'God'. .. although in his pride he believes he is.. and he desires worship and commands worship as 'god'... he mimmicks and counterifeits .. acting and coming as an angel of 'light'...

satan commands those who followed him.. he has his kingdom, the kingdom of darkness.. with thrones and principalities.. visible and invisible... he is the prince of devils.. and in authority.. he has many and I mean many under him working for him.. disobedient spirits who do his will... acting out things just like the Kingdom of Heaven.. as he desires the same thing his Creator is all about.. but he is not god... this is how he can rule and wreak havoc over a wide area.. by using those spirits who are under him.. and under his command...

he is a literal and real being.. as real as the five fingers on your hand...

be sober and be vigiliant ... little ones..

GINOSKO
Oct 6th 2009, 01:00 AM
When is the first reference, however vague, to Satan, or a fallen angel or great tempter? (Excluding the Garden of Eden serpent)

1st Chronicles 21

Where in scripture do we find the story of Satan being cast out of Heaven?

Revelation 12

Does God grant partial authority to Satan over the earth?

Luke 4 - Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and offers Jesus the authority over all of it if Jesus worships him. Jesus replies "It is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.'" Jesus didn't deny Satan's ability to give him the authority and glory of the Earthly kingdoms because Satan said the authority was "delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will." That authority could only have been given by God. Also, in Luke 11, Jesus mentions Satan's kingdom.

webhead
Oct 6th 2009, 01:36 AM
Satan tried to be or play God. He was the first secular humanist(although he's not human) so to speak.

Ezekiel 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:


“ You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “ You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
16 “ By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 “ Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.
18 “ You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.”’”

In verse Ezekiel 28:14 it says, "You were the anointed Cherub." This tells us we are not talking about a human king. The word cherub is singular for cherubim. The cherubim are symbolic of God's Holy presence and His unapproachable majesty. These cherubim occupy a unique position. The "anointed cherub who covers" is the picture given to us in the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve had been sent out and God had placed cherubim to guard the way of the tree of life. Also, when Moses made the mercy seat and placed it into the tabernacle's Holy of Holies, God's glory came and dwelt between the cherubim. They "covered" the mercy seat with their wings. So we now see that Satan was a cherub and his position was to guard the very throne of God. His position was that of protecting the holiness of God. Satan had the highest of all positions, a position which he despised and lost. We have here in Ezekiel a picture of the highest of God's creatures, perfect in wisdom, beautiful beyond description, a musician and on top of all that, he was given this high, exalted position. But, this creation, with all of these wonderful attributes also had a free will. One day, God says to this marvelous creature, "Iniquity was found in you."
What kind of iniquity was found of him? In the book of Ezekiel, God has let us stand with Him at the very beginning, to see the origin and the creation of Satan. But, why does God say this? What is this iniquity? We must look back to Isaiah 14:12, which tells us of Lucifer/Satan's choice. "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High." Did you notice in this passage all of the "I wills. " He said he would exalt his throne above the stars of God. The word "stars" here does not refer to what we see in the night sky. It refers to the angels of God. In other words, "I will take over heaven, I will be God." That is Lucifer/Satan's sin and that is the iniquity that was found in him. He does not want to be God's servant. He does not want to do what he was created to do. He wants to be served and there are millions who have chosen to do just that; serve him. They have listened to his lies and chosen to follow him. Eve believed the lie that she would be like God. The reason Lucifer/Satan tempted her with that was because it is the very thing that he wants -- to be God.

ScottWoods
Oct 6th 2009, 01:55 AM
In verse Ezekiel 28:14 it says, "You were the anointed Cherub." This tells us we are not talking about a human king.

If you read from the link I posted:

"
There is an infelicity in the Authorized Version rendering of "Thou art the anointed cherub," and it is very important that we make the correction and adjustment, for it controls the sense. The italics of the Authorized Version are supplied words, and, if correct, are admissible. However, the Hebrew word ath may be either the pronoun you or indicate the object of the verb. Since ath as a pronoun, without the pointing, is the feminine form, and the words king and cherub are masculine, the rendering as a pronoun must be ruled out, and so we are not required to supply the substantive verb "art." This gives us ath krub, which must be accusative rather than nominative. We find confirmation of this when we understand that the Authorized Version rendering "and I have set thee" is without an object as indicated by the supplied "so." So we render; I had provided you with a guardian cherub."

Thoughts?

GINOSKO
Oct 6th 2009, 02:45 AM
My understanding of Ezekiel 28 11-19 is this. God has told Ezekiel to proclaim to the king of Tyre his coming destruction. The king is described as a protecting cherub because of the protection he gave to the Kingdom of Israel and his predecessor's (King Hiram) help in constructing the Temple in David and Solomon's time. But now his riches and power have gone to his head. Tyre was destroyed just as prophesied. I think the Jewish rendering is a lot easier to understand. See Stone's Tanach.