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motormouf
Oct 14th 2009, 02:15 AM
This might sound strange coming from a guy but does antone else think this age old practice (of practising certain behaviour towards ladies) has become obsolete to people? I'm not basing this on the fact that some guys dont do tthins stuff anymore but it seems the ladies dont appreciate it. Its seemed from personal experience that many women tend to appreciate the guys who treat them lke ladies less than those guys who more or less dont even bother.

I got many examples but heres a good one- ther was a woman i worked with who'd ask me to do her favours if i happened to be in the area, ie plug this in etc. And i'd do it- no bother, her wearing a dress or skirt, it'd be a bit difficult. Then later we get a staff outing and i hear her say to others in a rather contemptuous tone that when she looks at me she thinks, i'm soft and she could make me do anything she wants (obvioulsy the last time i do anything for her)

And i noticed it in alot of other ways from other different people- we using chairs in a place, its usually the SINGLE GUYS who end up carrying the chairs for the girls who ARE IN RELATIONSHIPS. while their boyfriends stand aside and talk or do whatever. it even got so bad i saw a girl ask a guy to do something for her while her boyfriend was right there doing nothing. But yet in all, they still act like the guys who dont do anything for them are soooo much more than the guys who actually do.:confused (I used to be one of them till i wisened up) And that was a "nice" example
Anyone else notice this. Forgive me if i sound bitter or mysogynistic but its something that puzzles and angers me, since it seemed i was one of the helpful ones but seemingly got no appreciation until i decided to forget it all.

Gregg
Oct 14th 2009, 02:35 PM
If you are hunting for conquests it would seem that in the falllen world of dating, that women are attracted to the "bad boy" image. If you are looking for a mate it is best not to trick them and make them believe you are something that you are not. Reflect Christ and attract the kind of woman that as a Christian you will appreciate and who will appreciate you.

Firefighter
Oct 14th 2009, 03:13 PM
No, we just got old...:D

bambu420
Oct 14th 2009, 04:11 PM
I agree with Gregg.I honestly do not think it's *dead*.I do think however that chivalry has a time and place.Throughout time the badboy act has had its momentum and always will.Some women do prejudge men who practise chivalry as nice guys/ softies. However I think some women need to appreciate this facet of men and embrace it, rather than put us down or mock us seeing that alot of guys nowadays want to practise the badboy routine.There are women out there who notice chivalry and pay respect to it.Keep this in mind, a woman notices a jerk and she also notices a good man.As Gregg said, be who you are.For the women who mock you b/c of your chivalry, pay them no mind, they don't know what a good man is :rolleyes:

motormouf
Oct 14th 2009, 04:54 PM
If you are hunting for conquests it would seem that in the fallen world of dating, that women are attracted to the "bad boy" image. If you are looking for a mate it is best not to trick them and make them believe you are something that you are not. Reflect Christ and attract the kind of woman that as a Christian you will appreciate and who will appreciate you.

Oh i don't necessarily want them. Alot are already taken , but what gets me is how my niceness gets ignored and all the while, they bow down and worship the guys who treat them like dirt.

I saw a guy in a conversation with his buddy abt sports, a girl who liked him stood right next to him and he completely ignored her as if she werent there. I saw her standing there looking alone and bit ignored and to be nice i went over to keep her company. I get a completely icy reaction (i.e 1 word answers and no imput to continue a conversation showing that she didnt want to hear anythnig from me), so i left Coming back i still see her there getting totally ignored but still not moving, so i had a good little laugh- If u wanna be ignored by him rather than have me show some concern or interest then stay there. :lol: That guy did that more than once and she still went on to hook up with him leading to even more stuff, which i still snicker at.

bambu420
Oct 14th 2009, 05:33 PM
Maybe you're being too nice?:confused

Gregg
Oct 14th 2009, 06:00 PM
Oh i don't necessarily want them. Alot are already taken , but what gets me is how my niceness gets ignored and all the while, they bow down and worship the guys who treat them like dirt.

I saw a guy in a conversation with his buddy abt sports, a girl who liked him stood right next to him and he completely ignored her as if she werent there. I saw her standing there looking alone and bit ignored and to be nice i went over to keep her company. I get a completely icy reaction (i.e 1 word answers and no imput to continue a conversation showing that she didnt want to hear anythnig from me), so i left Coming back i still see her there getting totally ignored but still not moving, so i had a good little laugh- If u wanna be ignored by him rather than have me show some concern or interest then stay there. :lol: That guy did that more than once and she still went on to hook up with him leading to even more stuff, which i still snicker at.

So you were playing the nice guy card to attract another man's woman? My guess would be that you had a little "visual crush" on her so you took your shot using your best tools. It didn't work (which is not a bad thing). Keep pitching, all guys get turned down (some more than others) until we find a good fit. It doesn't hurt to ask God to help you in your quest.

God bless you and yours.

Friend of Jesus
Oct 14th 2009, 06:32 PM
There are 3 types of men in this world (and yes I am generalising):

-There are Soft men, men who are so darn nice you just can't stand them (Ned Flanders is a good stereotype example). While they are good in the sense that they don't do much wrong, there is still much more to chivalry than being nice. Women don't tend to fall for these guys as there is very little that is romantic about 'nice'. The ones that do, tend to be women that have had a bad experience with the second kind of man.

- There are men that have a kind of show of strength but they don't use it for good. This is a broad catergory but it comprises of people who pretend to be a 'tough guy', men that have a mean streak, men that are unneccessarily violent, men who are strong headed, and men that like to rebel (in the wrong way). Essentially they are men who seem to be strong and romantic, until you realise that they are only really out to please themselves. Women often tend to fall for these guys either because they are decieved as to their true nature, or that they don't realise that the third type of man exists.

- God's man. This is got so much more to it than what people often think of when they talk about a godly man. These are men who are nice, but they are so much more as well. They love others with a never failing passion, they have a strong desire to live for God and they are willing to brave anything to do it, and lastly- they are wild, exciting and not confined by their fears and what the world says they can or can't do because they put their trust completely and utterly in God.

The first kind of man bores women, they are often unwilling to step outside of their comfort zone, and while they may be minding their manners and trying not to upset people they are actually living very ungodly lives. The second kind of man abuses women, doesn't appreciate the woman in their life for who she is and lives a life bent upon pleasing himself. The third kind of man, is passionate, loving, brave and invites women (but chooses one!) into the adventure God has set for them.

Don't live nice, don't live badass- live Christ.

bambu420
Oct 14th 2009, 07:16 PM
There are 3 types of men in this world (and yes I am generalising):

-There are Soft men, men who are so darn nice you just can't stand them (Ned Flanders is a good stereotype example). While they are good in the sense that they don't do much wrong, there is still much more to chivalry than being nice. Women don't tend to fall for these guys as there is very little that is romantic about 'nice'. The ones that do, tend to be women that have had a bad experience with the second kind of man.

- There are men that have a kind of show of strength but they don't use it for good. This is a broad catergory but it comprises of people who pretend to be a 'tough guy', men that have a mean streak, men that are unneccessarily violent, men who are strong headed, and men that like to rebel (in the wrong way). Essentially they are men who seem to be strong and romantic, until you realise that they are only really out to please themselves. Women often tend to fall for these guys either because they are decieved as to their true nature, or that they don't realise that the third type of man exists.

- God's man. This is got so much more to it than what people often think of when they talk about a godly man. These are men who are nice, but they are so much more as well. They love others with a never failing passion, they have a strong desire to live for God and they are willing to brave anything to do it, and lastly- they are wild, exciting and not confined by their fears and what the world says they can or can't do because they put their trust completely and utterly in God.

The first kind of man bores women, they are often unwilling to step outside of their comfort zone, and while they may be minding their manners and trying not to upset people they are actually living very ungodly lives. The second kind of man abuses women, doesn't appreciate the woman in their life for who she is and lives a life bent upon pleasing himself. The third kind of man, is passionate, loving, brave and invites women (but chooses one!) into the adventure God has set for them.

Don't live nice, don't live badass- live Christ.

WOOT :thumbsup::amen:

Resist!
Oct 14th 2009, 08:55 PM
Don't live nice, don't live badass- live Christ.

exactly.

my brother has told me the reason I never make it past "just friends" with every woman I'm interested in, is because I don't treat her poorly.
(I pray for my brother everyday, btw).
that I could just exploit most girls need to gain acceptance from a male figure, by being mean and never letting them feel accepted completely.
(this is what he got out of psych classes? seriously?).

well, I refuse to manipulate people that way.

I think the ability to appreciate kindness is a desirable quality, and if it's the Lord's will, I'll find a woman that does.

Firefighter
Oct 14th 2009, 11:07 PM
I dated my wife for five solid weeks before I even attempted to kiss her at the end of a date. I was polite, I opened doors, I gave her flowers, etc. I also happen to have the best wife any guy could ever ask for. And just in case you think it is not odd, it wasn't in the 70's, that was in 1998.

Now granted, I did have the bad boy appeal because I was bouncing and body guarding, but I treated her with nothing but respect. Would you really want a girl that wants to be treated like crap? That only says one thing to me..."BAGGAGE!"

motormouf
Oct 15th 2009, 01:22 AM
So you were playing the nice guy card to attract another man's woman? My guess would be that you had a little "visual crush" on her so you took your shot using your best tools. It didn't work (which is not a bad thing). Keep pitching, all guys get turned down (some more than others) until we find a good fit. It doesn't hurt to ask God to help you in your quest.

God bless you and yours.


No i was just raised to be helpful and at 1st chivalry seems stupid but i gradually started showing it as a means of self improvement.

motormouf
Oct 15th 2009, 01:33 AM
There are 3 types of men in this world (and yes I am generalising):

-There are Soft men, men who are so darn nice you just can't stand them (Ned Flanders is a good stereotype example). While they are good in the sense that they don't do much wrong, there is still much more to chivalry than being nice. Women don't tend to fall for these guys as there is very little that is romantic about 'nice'. The ones that do, tend to be women that have had a bad experience with the second kind of man.


- There are men that have a kind of show of strength but they don't use it for good. This is a broad catergory but it comprises of people who pretend to be a 'tough guy', men that have a mean streak, men that are unneccessarily violent, men who are strong headed, and men that like to rebel (in the wrong way). Essentially they are men who seem to be strong and romantic, until you realise that they are only really out to please themselves. Women often tend to fall for these guys either because they are decieved as to their true nature, or that they don't realise that the third type of man exists.

- God's man. This is got so much more to it than what people often think of when they talk about a godly man. These are men who are nice, but they are so much more as well. They love others with a never failing passion, they have a strong desire to live for God and they are willing to brave anything to do it, and lastly- they are wild, exciting and not confined by their fears and what the world says they can or can't do because they put their trust completely and utterly in God.
The first kind of man bores women, they are often unwilling to step outside of their comfort zone, and while they may be minding their manners and trying not to upset people they are actually living very ungodly lives. The second kind of man abuses women, doesn't appreciate the woman in their life for who she is and lives a life bent upon pleasing himself. The third kind of man, is passionate, loving, brave and invites women (but chooses one!) into the adventure God has set for them.

Don't live nice, don't live badass- live Christ.

Number 3 makes absolutely no sense to me- These are men who are nice, but they are so much more as well. They love others with a never failing passion, they have a strong desire to live for God and they are willing to brave anything to do it, and lastly- they are wild, exciting and not confined by their fears and what the world says they can or can't do because they put their trust completely and utterly in God.The third kind of man, is passionate, loving, brave and invites women (but chooses one!) into the adventure God has set for them.

All i can say is HUH??????? Sounds like something outta some Christian romance novels or something

But thanks, now that I see my niceness is generally repulsive I got all the justification i need to become a heartless unhelpful heel. I guess itll make like alot easier for me. Lets see what happens now shall we

Buzzword
Oct 15th 2009, 01:43 AM
I wrote the following poem in a bad moment like what I believe you're feeling now.

Requiem for Chivalry
The knights are all gone.
The cads and the scoundrels have won
The hearts of the ladies,
As the horses starve and the armor rusts
And the lowly knights gaze at the busts
Of their fallen heroes.
Arthur and Launcelot are now mere dust,
Their fame and romances covered in must.

Dames and ladies pine and wail,
Yet they make their beds cold and stale,
As villains and vermin steal their hearts,
Then rape them and pierce them with fiery darts.
The knights must merely watch from afar,
Caged from healing what the devils mar.
Damsels continue to be in distress,
Yet push knights away when under duress.
They cry for someone to come save the day,
Yet run with swift feet to death and decay.

The knights walk abroad with sword and shield,
Ready to force all the pain to yield.
But when cries reach their ears,
They are bidden to tears.
For dames love their blights,
More than well-meaning knights,
Ulterior motives,
More than romantic votives,
Lust and deception,
More than love and affection.


I recently read it to a group of female friends at my wife's belated bridal shower.
The unanimous, almost synchronized response:
"So true."

Women realize they're pushing the good guys away and running to the guys who will hurt them.

I believe they do so because (no matter how strong a person they are) they feel a need for a strong male in their life.
To many women, the guys who practice chivalry make great friends.
But they do not seem to radiate the level of strength and masculinity a guy who out-and-out ignores or abuses them exudes.

If chivalry is dead, women killed it.
However, it is not dead IMO.

The problem lies in women treating it as their due (from lower males, not potential mates), and thus not rewarding it in any way.

Men treat it as an expression of love or attraction or at least courtesy, requiring a specific effort and committment on their part, and when no reward comes, grow discouraged and either hesitate to continue the behavior, or cease altogether.

The point, then, is what do you do about it?
Remain consistent in your chivalrous, courteous behavior, but add passion to your attempts at courting.
Show that you have emotional strength for them to depend on, passion which can potentially flare at any time, AND constant compassion, courtesy, and chivalry.
BUT do not fling yourself emotionally nor wear your heart on your sleeve.
Keep your passion and deep romance smouldering beneath the surface, even as you speak and act light and casual.

THEN, after doing all this, BE PATIENT.
I guarantee that at LEAST the first 100 women you find yourself infatuated with are NOT wife-material, or perhaps even date-material.

Keep your eyes and mind open, and know that great dating relationships can be had even without mate-hunting, and that God brings women into our lives for a reason, even if they don't stay in our lives forever.

Also, personal experience:
My wife and I first met online. God works in mysterious ways. :D

Friend of Jesus
Oct 15th 2009, 08:09 AM
Number 3 makes absolutely no sense to me- These are men who are nice, but they are so much more as well. They love others with a never failing passion, they have a strong desire to live for God and they are willing to brave anything to do it, and lastly- they are wild, exciting and not confined by their fears and what the world says they can or can't do because they put their trust completely and utterly in God.The third kind of man, is passionate, loving, brave and invites women (but chooses one!) into the adventure God has set for them.

All i can say is HUH??????? Sounds like something outta some Christian romance novels or something

But thanks, now that I see my niceness is generally repulsive I got all the justification i need to become a heartless unhelpful heel. I guess itll make like alot easier for me. Lets see what happens now shall we

NOOOOO!!!! I am NOT saying live like a heartless unhelpful heel! And neither am I being a hopeless Christian romantic!

Let me show you what I mean biblically:

What kind of man was David. Was he a nice man- yes that much is obvious but he was so much more than that. Was he a heartless man- no, read any of the psalms and see just how big hearted this guy was. What he was, was God's man "a man after my own heart". He was a warrior, he wrestled bears with his own hands and won, and he trusted God to give him the victory over Goliath, the most fearsome man in all Philistine. And that was before he became king.

Now let's look at Jesus. Nice doesn't quite cover it here, compassionate or loving would be more suited to the man of all men. And yet, when he saw people defiling his Father's temple he didn't ask them to nicely leave, but he threw all of their merchant stands over, ruining some of their livelihoods and drove them out of the temple with a whip. Also, Jesus can hardly be called boring, because he was in such a close relationship with the Father, wherever he went, the unexpected happened. I don't think anybody ever accused Jesus of needing to 'liven up' or start being rude to break the mold. I think they were too busy standing mouth open or praising God. Jesus wasn't a soft man, neither was he a man with a heart of stone- he was God's man.

What I am getting at, is that there are times to put others before yourself and love other people. But that should not diminish the fierceness that you show towards God's enemies (all that is evil) and neither should that make you boring- In fact, it should make you considerably more exciting than the number 2 man whose life is based upon a "ME ME ME" philosophy.

Gregg
Oct 15th 2009, 01:31 PM
No i was just raised to be helpful and at 1st chivalry seems stupid but i gradually started showing it as a means of self improvement.

Umm...if this were true, why did you get so much joy when you came back and saw that she was miserable?

I am not trying to judge you. I understand your feelings. I was that nice guy. I can tell you that I actually had other motives. Nice guy didn't work so I became the bad boy and it worked. I got lots of dates that were "above my level." It was never enough. As soon as I got what I wanted I moved on. It hardened my heart (not to mention the damage and baggage it caused some of my victims). I eventually became very lonely. It took coming to Christ to heal me and change me so I could attract my current wife. She is beautiful on the inside as well as the outside. She is a mirracle in my life. I pray that you will someday find the wife of your dreams.

God bless you and yours.

motormouf
Oct 15th 2009, 04:50 PM
Umm...if this were true, why did you get so much joy when you came back and saw that she was miserable?

I am not trying to judge you. I understand your feelings. I was that nice guy. I can tell you that I actually had other motives. Nice guy didn't work so I became the bad boy and it worked. I got lots of dates that were "above my level." It was never enough. As soon as I got what I wanted I moved on. It hardened my heart (not to mention the damage and baggage it caused some of my victims). I eventually became very lonely. It took coming to Christ to heal me and change me so I could attract my current wife. She is beautiful on the inside as well as the outside. She is a miracle in my life. I pray that you will someday find the wife of your dreams.

God bless you and yours.


Not joy, more like amusement. I got a warped sense of humour so seeing a woman ignore me to be ignored by a guy is HILARIOUS.:rofl:

bambu420
Oct 15th 2009, 06:47 PM
I wrote the following poem in a bad moment like what I believe you're feeling now.

Requiem for Chivalry
The knights are all gone.
The cads and the scoundrels have won
The hearts of the ladies,
As the horses starve and the armor rusts
And the lowly knights gaze at the busts
Of their fallen heroes.
Arthur and Launcelot are now mere dust,
Their fame and romances covered in must.

Dames and ladies pine and wail,
Yet they make their beds cold and stale,
As villains and vermin steal their hearts,
Then rape them and pierce them with fiery darts.
The knights must merely watch from afar,
Caged from healing what the devils mar.
Damsels continue to be in distress,
Yet push knights away when under duress.
They cry for someone to come save the day,
Yet run with swift feet to death and decay.

The knights walk abroad with sword and shield,
Ready to force all the pain to yield.
But when cries reach their ears,
They are bidden to tears.
For dames love their blights,
More than well-meaning knights,
Ulterior motives,
More than romantic votives,
Lust and deception,
More than love and affection.


I recently read it to a group of female friends at my wife's belated bridal shower.
The unanimous, almost synchronized response:
"So true."

Women realize they're pushing the good guys away and running to the guys who will hurt them.

I believe they do so because (no matter how strong a person they are) they feel a need for a strong male in their life.
To many women, the guys who practice chivalry make great friends.
But they do not seem to radiate the level of strength and masculinity a guy who out-and-out ignores or abuses them exudes.

If chivalry is dead, women killed it.
However, it is not dead IMO.

The problem lies in women treating it as their due (from lower males, not potential mates), and thus not rewarding it in any way.

Men treat it as an expression of love or attraction or at least courtesy, requiring a specific effort and committment on their part, and when no reward comes, grow discouraged and either hesitate to continue the behavior, or cease altogether.

The point, then, is what do you do about it?
Remain consistent in your chivalrous, courteous behavior, but add passion to your attempts at courting.
Show that you have emotional strength for them to depend on, passion which can potentially flare at any time, AND constant compassion, courtesy, and chivalry.
BUT do not fling yourself emotionally nor wear your heart on your sleeve.
Keep your passion and deep romance smouldering beneath the surface, even as you speak and act light and casual.

THEN, after doing all this, BE PATIENT.
I guarantee that at LEAST the first 100 women you find yourself infatuated with are NOT wife-material, or perhaps even date-material.

Keep your eyes and mind open, and know that great dating relationships can be had even without mate-hunting, and that God brings women into our lives for a reason, even if they don't stay in our lives forever.

Also, personal experience:
My wife and I first met online. God works in mysterious ways. :D

WOOT WOOT WOOT :yes: That's an awesome poem!! :)

motormouf
Oct 15th 2009, 11:01 PM
NOOOOO!!!! I am NOT saying live like a heartless unhelpful heel! And neither am I being a hopeless Christian romantic!

Let me show you what I mean biblically:

What kind of man was David. Was he a nice man- yes that much is obvious but he was so much more than that. Was he a heartless man- no, read any of the psalms and see just how big hearted this guy was. What he was, was God's man "a man after my own heart". He was a warrior, he wrestled bears with his own hands and won, and he trusted God to give him the victory over Goliath, the most fearsome man in all Philistine. And that was before he became king.

Now let's look at Jesus. Nice doesn't quite cover it here, compassionate or loving would be more suited to the man of all men. And yet, when he saw people defiling his Father's temple he didn't ask them to nicely leave, but he threw all of their merchant stands over, ruining some of their livelihoods and drove them out of the temple with a whip. Also, Jesus can hardly be called boring, because he was in such a close relationship with the Father, wherever he went, the unexpected happened. I don't think anybody ever accused Jesus of needing to 'liven up' or start being rude to break the mold. I think they were too busy standing mouth open or praising God. Jesus wasn't a soft man, neither was he a man with a heart of stone- he was God's man.

What I am getting at, is that there are times to put others before yourself and love other people. But that should not diminish the fierceness that you show towards God's enemies (all that is evil) and neither should that make you boring- In fact, it should make you considerably more exciting than the number 2 man whose life is based upon a "ME ME ME" philosophy.

When it comes to examples of treating women, i dont think David is a good example is he- he only had about like what 4 wives + concubines he took one from a guy not too long after he died (even tho he probably was already married)and lets not talk about Bathsheba.

But like i said i think youre going a bit too far, theres no reason to go back that far into that stuff about the types of men they were and the type of passion that had and showing anger against God enemies and whats not. Theres simply no relationship.

Friend of Jesus
Oct 16th 2009, 04:12 PM
Suit yourself. If you haven't read 'Wild at Heart' by John Eldredge I highly suggest you do. I'm not trying to be radically 'out there' I'm just saying that good women fall for good men- And neither men that try to be nice nor men that are a jerk fit into that category. I was just trying to define the kind of good man that good women fall for. Obviously I cannot speak entirely reliably because I am a man not a woman myself. If you think that putting away chairs will attract good women then it's gonna be a pretty hollow relationship if you find one that it works for. Same goes for being a jerk. I'm not going to say "just be yourself" because the Bible says that's a terrible idea since we are very selfish naturally. What I was trying to put across that to 'win' good women you're going to have to live as Jesus lived and taught.

Dragonlove
Oct 16th 2009, 08:13 PM
Well, as a female perhaps I have something to add here. I do agree with the bad boy thing... but to be honest I think it's more a self-esteem issue than anything. Women fall for the bad boys because then if it's 'true love' than the boy will be chivalrous and nice to them, and only them. Trust me, you don't want to marry a woman with that kind of self-esteem, she'll never be satisfied with herself or you.

Chivalry is good because it raises self-esteem in girls like that until they start realizing that what they really want is a good guy. I say good for a reason, there's a difference between being chivalrous and being good. I've often refused to let boys open a door or carry heavy things for me because they were doing it for the wrong reason. REAL Chivalry has to do with real respect, not condescension, being nice because you're supposed to, or trying to pick up a girl. The one chivalrous guy I know can't help it, to him, women are precious jewels and he can't treat them as anything else, weather that means opening a door for them, OR letting them do it themselves. If he gets teased, he smiles, he doesn't get taken advantage of because he doesn't just do the bidding of women, only treats them as precious. If a friend of his gets into trouble, he's steel. He'll do anything to help her out of her pit, even going and talking to the bad boy in question. His purpose is to raise self-esteem, not ego. And for the record he's got a wonderful fiancee at 23.

Friend of Jesus
Oct 17th 2009, 05:54 PM
Well, as a female perhaps I have something to add here. I do agree with the bad boy thing... but to be honest I think it's more a self-esteem issue than anything. Women fall for the bad boys because then if it's 'true love' than the boy will be chivalrous and nice to them, and only them. Trust me, you don't want to marry a woman with that kind of self-esteem, she'll never be satisfied with herself or you.

Chivalry is good because it raises self-esteem in girls like that until they start realizing that what they really want is a good guy. I say good for a reason, there's a difference between being chivalrous and being good. I've often refused to let boys open a door or carry heavy things for me because they were doing it for the wrong reason. REAL Chivalry has to do with real respect, not condescension, being nice because you're supposed to, or trying to pick up a girl. The one chivalrous guy I know can't help it, to him, women are precious jewels and he can't treat them as anything else, weather that means opening a door for them, OR letting them do it themselves. If he gets teased, he smiles, he doesn't get taken advantage of because he doesn't just do the bidding of women, only treats them as precious. If a friend of his gets into trouble, he's steel. He'll do anything to help her out of her pit, even going and talking to the bad boy in question. His purpose is to raise self-esteem, not ego. And for the record he's got a wonderful fiancee at 23.

Now that's what I'm talking about!
Loving people with God's love, and not for anything in return!

Dani H
Oct 20th 2009, 03:26 PM
http://myfirstfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/selection_200_106.jpg

Chivalry is dead. :(

motormouf
Oct 21st 2009, 03:24 PM
http://myfirstfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/selection_200_106.jpg

Chivalry is dead. :(

Funny thing is she'll probably grow up and think that guys like that are the greatest things on earth and a guy who'd give her his umbrella is soft.

I remember years ago, my cousin told me if i want to get a girlfriend. Treat them BAD. Ironically, my cousin was a woman.

Gregg
Oct 21st 2009, 04:18 PM
Funny thing is she'll probably grow up and think that guys like that are the greatest things on earth and a guy who'd give her his umbrella is soft.

I remember years ago, my cousin told me if i want to get a girlfriend. Treat them BAD. Ironically, my cousin was a woman.

If we treat relationships as winning or losing or "getting" something we will have the kind of relationship that "the world" offers. This does not heal the lonliness that we feel. If treat others as Jesus commands we will attract a Godly mate that will be beyond our wildest expectations.

God bless you and yours.

robs179
Oct 27th 2009, 12:42 AM
Buzzword, I really like your poem and was wondering if I can share it? I won't unless I can get you're permission, and I wouldn't attempt to claim any credit; if I can borrow it, who should I say is the author? Buzzword? :P

Motormouf, I began explaining a similar situation I was in recently, and decided it was way too much information. Long story short, my ex-girlfriend left me (more then once) for her abusive ex who has cheated on her (more then once). I consider myself a generally nice guy; I know I'm not perfect, but I'd like to think I would never treat a woman like her ex treats her.

It seems as though nice guys always lose. That really gets me down sometimes, especially when I think back to what I have lost to the "bad boys." But I keep reminding myself that God does have a plan for each of us, and even if it doesn't include getting married to a beautiful, godly woman, His plan is infinitely better then any fate I could choose for myself.

It pains me to see that you have become bitter over this subject, and believe me, I can relate and I have been there. But I hope you can find comfort in knowing God has a plan for all of us.

I do believe chivalry has died in our society, but that's not going to stop me from practicing it. I pray that one day I will meet an old-fashioned, godly woman who can still appreciate it.

Lordistruth
Oct 30th 2009, 09:49 PM
Chivalry is dead as it should be! Equal rights = no chivalry.

Ayala
Oct 31st 2009, 12:34 AM
How do you define the word?

Athanasius
Oct 31st 2009, 05:04 PM
Chivalry is dead as it should be! Equal rights = no chivalry.

What does equal rights have to do with being, for lack of a better word, nice?

Buzzword
Oct 31st 2009, 06:49 PM
What does equal rights have to do with being, for lack of a better word, nice?

Seriously, especially considering the still-fiery argument regarding whether or not men and women really DO have "equal rights," and whether the government even has the power to GIVE "equal rights" to men and women.

(both arguments depend greatly on one's definition of what a "right" is)

Lordistruth
Nov 2nd 2009, 04:34 PM
I'm all about being nice, but I am just as likely to hold a door for a guy as I am for a girl. what I am saying is that women cannot expect chivalrous treatment if they expect equal rights.

I'll always hold a door for a girl or anyone else, but I'm just looking at this from the outside in, more philosophically.

If men and women are equal, then why doesn't a girl hold a door for a man?

Athanasius
Nov 2nd 2009, 05:44 PM
I'm all about being nice, but I am just as likely to hold a door for a guy as I am for a girl. what I am saying is that women cannot expect chivalrous treatment if they expect equal rights.

I'll always hold a door for a girl or anyone else, but I'm just looking at this from the outside in, more philosophically.

If men and women are equal, then why doesn't a girl hold a door for a man?

Why don't you try looking at it Biblically, and then your philosophy will make more sense (chivalry has nothing to do with equal rights).

Lordistruth
Nov 2nd 2009, 08:41 PM
Chivalry is actually pertaining to knighthood, which we don't have in this country so....

Athanasius
Nov 2nd 2009, 09:24 PM
Chivalry is actually pertaining to knighthood, which we don't have in this country so....

What does the origin of the word have to do with anything?

Equipped_4_Love
Nov 3rd 2009, 03:15 AM
When I think of chivalry, I think of Erroll Flynn.

I think of the movie Titanic, where when the ship was sinking, it was women and children first, and this was expected. The one guy who got on the lifeboat with the women and children was considered an undignified coward.

Would things go down like that today?! NO WAY!!! The men would be pushing the women overboard to get to the lifeboats. Women and children first?! Ya, right...It's every man for himself!!!!

CoffeeCat
Nov 3rd 2009, 03:42 AM
No, I don't think chivalry's dead, but I do think it only shows up in people who have either been raised a certain way, or have a certain mindset -- and these people can be from any culture, can be any age, etc. Those who feel convicted on the idea that to treat others with respect and consideration is a very valuable thing will likely embrace it. I've met people of all ages who I'd consider 'chivalrous' -- it seems to be part of who they are. An extension of their personality, and it doesn't have much to do with how old they are or when they're living.... with these people, I get the idea that whether they are 18, 39, 64 or 82, they'll always treat women with a high degree of respect. And I appreciate it deeply.

As a woman, I like to return the favour when I can, because it's a respect thing.

It can't be called 'chivalry', exactly, just respect. Holding doors open for anyone. Calling people "Ma'am" or "Sir". Saying please and thank you. Smiling at strangers and making small talk. Treating people the way God wants us to, because He created them and loves them. We could all go farther, myself included, if we extended simple courtesy to those around us..... and it REALLY lifts me up and cheers me up when I see people doing their best, on that front,whether they're male or female. :)

motormouf
Nov 3rd 2009, 07:23 PM
when i think of chivalry, i think of erroll flynn.

I think of the movie titanic, where when the ship was sinking, it was women and children first, and this was expected. The one guy who got on the lifeboat with the women and children was considered an undignified coward.

Would things go down like that today?! No way!!! The men would be pushing the women overboard to get to the lifeboats. Women and children first?! Ya, right...it's every man for himself!!!!

ya got that right

Lordistruth
Nov 3rd 2009, 10:31 PM
I understand children first, but why should women get put on a life boat before a man?

Athanasius
Nov 3rd 2009, 11:03 PM
I understand children first, but why should women get put on a life boat before a man?

Because biblically, we're supposed to protect women?

Buzzword
Nov 4th 2009, 01:35 AM
Just found this picture, which some would call chivalrous...

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/true_lover04/13069_1226910923174_1541088621_6138.jpg

...and I would call ridiculous. :lol:

Equipped_4_Love
Nov 4th 2009, 02:10 AM
I understand children first, but why should women get put on a life boat before a man?


.....my point exactly. Times have really changed

motormouf
Nov 4th 2009, 03:51 AM
.....my point exactly. Times have really changed


Call me unchivalrious but in said times of danger i aint drowning for noone- except maybe my kids or family.

Buzzword
Nov 4th 2009, 05:56 AM
Call me unchivalrious but in said times of danger i aint drowning for noone- except maybe my kids or family.

Reminds me of a standup comic I was watching the other day.
He compared "women and children first" with the fact that men (supposedly) get paid more than women for doing the same job, using the Titanic and fleeing a burning building as examples.

"Until some women start burning to death or drowning, we're keeping that extra dollar an hour!" :lol:

Equipped_4_Love
Nov 4th 2009, 06:20 AM
Reminds me of a standup comic I was watching the other day.
He compared "women and children first" with the fact that men (supposedly) get paid more than women for doing the same job, using the Titanic and fleeing a burning building as examples.

"Until some women start burning to death or drowning, we're keeping that extra dollar an hour!" :lol:

LOL....But if you ain't drowning for no one, then this doesn't count, and we (females) should get the extra dollar :lol:

Youssarian
Nov 6th 2009, 01:39 PM
I remember reading somewhere in a teen-oriented magazine my youth group handed out an article that discussed this. In it, it said that the reason women, or at least teen gals, always seem to go for the badboys is because those boys demonstrate self-confidence. They're not low on themselves, and it's something that attracts them. Ladies, you can go ahead and verify me on this, as I'm no professor in this field.

Is chivalry dead? Mostly. There are still some men who practice chivalry and there are still some women who expect men to practice it. However, our culture has grown increasingly self-centered over the years, meaning the guys are too big on themselves to do anything nice for the ladies and the ladies are too big on themselves to even care if a guy does something chivalrous. And since we've grown up in this kind of society, nobody really notices or takes offense when it isn't demonstrated. In fact, I've heard of instances where someone is offended when it is demonstrated.